Is Half-Life 2 out now?

Adrian

Is half-life2 out now. Please I need quick response.

dragon_ninja82

no

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

feylya

I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see it til next summer. Considering the amount of work that Valve has to do on it now to stop little cheating kiddies.

Dr_Teeth

It is if you have a c++ compiler and are good at making your own models and maps.

Teeth.

feylya

Think about this though. People know have the CD key authenication code so that means infinite free cd keys. They have the netcode so they know exactly how to hack that. They did it in CS and they didn't even have the code!

tman

Originally posted by feylya
Think about this though. People know have the CD key authenication code so that means infinite free cd keys. They have the netcode so they know exactly how to hack that. They did it in CS and they didn't even have the code!

which is why hl2 is going to be delayed furthermore:mad:

feylya

That's what I said.

I'm thinking Valve won't be releasing it on the 5th Anniversary of Half-Life 1 like they hinted at before the hack. I'm guessing next year would be more likely.

tman

ah roysh, just out of bed...

i'd say they'll just make it for crimbo, mid november was the delayed release date iirc, 1 month to sort the other crap out should be plenty...

feylya

Originally posted by tman
1 month to sort the other crap out should be plenty...

For some reason I doubt that. Just think how much work is going to have to be done. CD key algorithms rewritten. Netcode encryption rewritten and god knows what else. I'm waiting for Valve to be sued by Havok and Miles Sound Systems because their entire SDK's are included with the source code.

Not too mention reprinting all the cases and manuals because the CD key's are probably already printed on them. That or else put in a peice of paper saying "This is your real CD key, ignore the other one". They are going to loose a LOT of money.

Anima

Feylya how do you know? Are you a coder? Could take 10 mins for all you know.

feylya

No, I'm not a coder(yet) but I'm living in a house of Software Development Degree students, so they should know a thing or 2. Either way, I really don't think we'll see HL2 this year. I'd love to be wrong but I don't see it happening (HL2 that is)

RicardoSmith

What you're asking is "How long is a piece of string". Theres no way of knowing how much is involved without knowing exactly what was in the source code that was hacked. They may decide to release it early, maybe the encryption routines weren't in the development code. Theres a thousands "ifs" to consider.

Anima

It might be a good thing if its delayed, they might finish cs2 or tf2 and release them together.

I doubht it but you never know.

feylya

I take it neither of you have seen the source source?

TF2 is included with HL2

Gabe Newell has siad the entire HL2 source code was taken, including TF2, Steam, Havok, Miles Sound System et al.

RicardoSmith

From what I read they weren't sure how old the code was that was taken. It could have been a few weeks old. I thought they were doing a review of that at the moment. Either way I reckon it will be delayed while they come up with a new encryption mechanisim. They may decide to include more stuff so give more value to the legal retail version.

feylya

The source was taken on 19th September. The code was approxiately 1 month old according to Gabe Newel. Hopefully it's only a ten minute job to rewrite the specific functions but if the companies I listed sue Valve, they'll probably go bust.

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by feylya
The source was taken on 19th September. The code was approxiately 1 month old according to Gabe Newel. Hopefully it's only a ten minute job to rewrite the specific functions but if the companies I listed sue Valve, they'll probably go bust.

Yeah they may even put a hold on Valve releasing HL2 at all!!!

feylya

I'm guessing it is the main reason they delayed it. But you have to wonder, if they hadn't delayed it, would the source have been released??

Also, has anyone read the email sent by a Valve employee about the PR problem he created about steam? I'll post it here if it's within the rules.

monument

Originally posted by feylya
People know have the CD key authenication code so that means infinite free cd keys.

As far as I know/have read the CD key authentication code have not been leaked. Maybe I’m wrong?

shinzon

Who can Say

VALVE ARE STUPID TWATS

and should have noticed something was up and done something about it before it was to late

Shin

feylya

8 days. That's how long it took the hacker to get into Gabe Newell's email account, install programs on many of Valve's computers and download the source. Nasty. Gabe did notice he computer was acting up but who would honestly think it was a hacker. Still, you'd expect Valve to have 2 unconnected networks.

feylya

Here's an interesting read. This was posted on the HalfLife2.net forums by gloryofbach

I've seen a lot of confusion about what the Half-life 2 source is and isn't, whether it can be compiled into a working copy of the game or not, and whether this is bad or not for Valve.

I am a small time games developer myself and for the benefit of those in the community not into software programming or knowledgeable in games development, I thought I'd try and give a brief explanation. Apologies to the experts as some simplifications have been made for general consumption.

1) A game like Half-life 2 consists of two main elements, resources and programming code.

The resources consist mostly of all the non-logic/instruction based elements of a game, that is the art, textures, sound, story script, maps etc. Things like the model and textures for the headcrab is typical of this. This is the largest part of a game in size, for a game like Half-life 2 typically over a gigabyte of the game will be resources. These resources cannot do anything by themselves, and if you have the right software, can be viewed/played as when making a mod. These are like the bricks and wood for the "house" Valve was building.

The program code consists of the logic and instructions as to how the game will function. That is to say, the code directs the computer in how to utilize the resources mentioned above, in the correct manner to allow you to play a game. Examples of what would be included in the program code are the Source engine, the Havoc engine for physics, artificial intelligence routines, game launcher code etc. Using the analogy above with the headcrab, the corresponding program code would be the animation rules for the headcrab, its artificial intelligence behavior, its stats etc.
This is like the architectural plan of the "house" Valve was building.

2) To play the game (as you will when it is released) you need the program code and the resources. What has been leaked is the program code, which amounted to around 160 megabytes of text (though this did include some non half life 2 related code), which is a SERIOUS amount of code. The resources for half life 2 are not included, and they would have amounted to at least a gigabyte.

When programmers write code, they write it in so called high level language like C++. A high level language is one that is easy to understand to humans, so that editing it is easy during development. This is known as the source code, and is what Valve will be working on right until half life 2 goes Gold. This is what has been leaked to the public. The source code has many lines of C++ code, which you will have trouble understanding if you do not know C++ (though it is very easy to learn!), and some comments that explain what the code is doing.

A computer is not designed to directly execute C++ code, which has been designed for a human to read. Instead it executes machine code, a far lower level language which is very hard for a human to understand. Coding in machine code would be a nightmare for a programmer and so they prefer to use C++ and other high level languages. Now for the computer to understand Valve's C++ source code, it must be converted to machine code. This is what a COMPILER does. Valve will run a compiler on the source code every so often, creating a bunch of executable files (machine code based) that can then be used to run the game and test the changes made to the source code. This is what you get when you buy a game: Resources and the compiled source code to run them.

As such, the fact that the source code is in the public domain does not mean that anyone can compile a working game out of it, as all the resources are missing as well as a few other code elements. So this source code leak isn't a big deal for Valve right? Why all the worry?

3) A source code leak is a HUGE deal. Source code is only released for obsolete games (like Quake, Quake 2 etc) once the programming secrets they contained are deemed out of date and no longer valuable to rival developers.

Half-life 2 is NOT an obsolete game. Is a cutting edge game incorporating many features that have never been seen before in a game, and more importantly is HAS NOT BEEN RELEASED. What does this mean for Valve?

It means all the work behind the new features, the Source engine, the revolutionary AI etc is now exposed for anyone in the public and rivals to see, learn from, and God forbid, copy. Using the house analogy above, it means the new revolutionary solar powered house you were building has had its building plans stolen before you've built it. Now everyone knows how you solved all those problems which prevented people from building revolutionary solar powered houses.

As an example, the Strider as seen in the released videos, is an amazingly novel creature to see in a computer game. It is seriously big, yet maneuvers around and interacts with the landscape in a convincing and intelligent manner. Getting a Strider to function like this will have taken Valve months of painstaking AI and animation work. Rival developers would have had to guess how on earth Valve pulled it off. Now they can simply look in the equivalent of the Strider AI source code file, and it will all be there, conveniently commented and explained by the Valve programmers for their own internal private understanding.

The source code for half life 2 is the result of 5 years of hard work by some of the best programmers in the games industry. No one would have seen it (bar engines licensees) for 5 or 6 years at least, upon which it might have been released to the public (like Id software with Quake).

The source code is not to be confused with the SDK as some people have. The SDK for half life 2 which will be released, is its Software Development Kit. This allows modders and fans to create games and mods using Half-life 2 technology, but does not tell them how the technology works. Unfortunately this is exactly what the leaked source code tells people.

So in short , this means for Valve:

All its clever routines and algorithms for making a revolutionary game like half life 2 tick, are available to be understood by anyone who knows C++, including game development rivals, hackers making cheats and exploits and the general public.

More worryingly the source code seems to contain a lot of source code from partner software developers that Valve had licensed to use in Half- life 2, such as the Havoc physics engine, and that Valve is contract bound to keep protected and confidential. These leaks enable people to potentially rip off these software partners too, and hence opens Valve to be sued.

Finally the internal workings of Half-life 2 have been so seriously compromised that I will be amazed if we see it released before 1st Quarter 2004. The potential for hacking exploits is enormous; it is like printing the blueprint to your high security safe in the local newspaper before having it installed in your home. SERIOUS work is needed now to rework the source code to protect it from future attacks on release. Let us not even mention that it seems Steam has been seriously compromised as well in the leaked source, as that had enough problems of its own to be getting on with without this.

A leak of the source code of a revolutionary highly anticipated game like Half-life 2, close to release is, as far as I know, unprecedented. My deepest sympathy as a games developer goes to the Valve crew and I wish them every success in catching the perpetrators of this crime.

Thanks for reading!

RicardoSmith

It could potentially close Valve and we might never see HL2 now. It could also do the same for the other companies whos source code has been compromised since how can they sell their work to other developers now that it can be accessed for free across the web. If anyone releases a product that has even vaguely similar features in the next few years the suspicion will be that they used stuff learned from the HL2 code. So expect more law suits there too. But only if Valve and the other companies are still operating. I expect that the only way Havok and other companies can protect their future is by suing valve so that they can ensure they have money to stay operating for the next few years. Because they will have a hard time selling their stuff now. What ever way you look at it Valve is screwed. So the hackers have effectively likely destroyed Valve and HL2 aswell.

:mad:

feylya

You should watch the ATI On Top On The Rock video. Gabe Newell looks in bits cos he knows the source had been leaked at that stage. He starts off his speech with the same words as his post "Ever have one of those weeks".

Is this the end of Valve?

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by feylya
You should watch the ATI On Top On The Rock video. Gabe Newell looks in bits cos he knows the source had been leaked at that stage. He starts off his speech with the same words as his post "Ever have one of those weeks".

Is this the end of Valve?

Thats the big ques I reckon. Where can we get the vid?

feylya

You can get it from FilePlanet here

You'll have to sign up though but it's free.

I'm just thinking that Valve delayed HL2 after they knew it was stolen so I'm wondering do they know exactly how much they have to change now. Makes ya wonder....

suppafly

feyla is that available anywhere else that allows d/ resume cuz i'm on 56k here so i can't just let it on the whole time.

feylya

I don't know. That was the link I was given and most fan sites link to FilePlanet. The file name is on_top_of_the_rock.zip or trip_to_alcatraz.divx.avi if you want to use a file sharing app to look for it.

jesus_thats_gre

In all fairness Feyla.....



This is not the end of Valve..... doom and gloom **** springs to mind...... This is one game, admitedly massive game, but the Valve team are incredibly talented and will have no problems recovering from this in the future...

As for licensing the engine, it will be blatantly obvious if someone rips of some of the code in their release and this will result in legal action..

With regard to how the leak happened, I find it amazing that the hacker was able to get as much access as they have. I can appreciate that Valve cannot prevent a concentrated attack on the their network, thus allowing short term access to their network, but for someone to have access for so long is just incredible.

As for the code being on the same network, this is common as companies tend to have one physical network and tend to sub-divide them into numerous logical networks depending on function. This can be done many different ways and for someone to have complete access to them all, would have to be fairly high up the pecking order, i.e. Gabe or a network Admin. I read something about how they exposed a weakness in Outlook to get initial entry and went from there.. I would love to know how and what they done out of curiousity.

monument

On the point of Outlook & general Windows security – apparently Microsoft are to change their security policy of patching when holes are found to more of a ring fenced one.

feylya

Jesus, like I said, if Havok, Miles and the other providers decide to sue Valve for letting their SDK's for the various products onto the internet, I imagine that after 5 years of development, Valve aren't going to have a lot of money left to play around with. Half-Life 2 will obvisously make a lot of money IF they release before the possible law suits arrive. Hopefully though, the companies will just see this as a kick in the sack for Valve and not bring any legal action against them.

MrPinK

Originally posted by jesus_thats_gre
As for licensing the engine, it will be blatantly obvious if someone rips of some of the code in their release and this will result in legal action..

Unless they have access to the other company's source code, which is extremely unlikely unless another company is stupid enough to do their deving on windows based machines connected to the internet, and can show what lines where copied, then Valve won't be able to sue anyone. It's not hard to change the code a little anyway, to prevent legal action if you release your source code.

RicardoSmith

Its not the specific code thats the issue but the ideas contained within it. This was the most advanced game engine to date.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by feylya
Jesus, like I said, if Havok, Miles and the other providers decide to sue Valve for letting their SDK's for the various products onto the internet, I imagine that after 5 years of development, Valve aren't going to have a lot of money left to play around with. Half-Life 2 will obvisously make a lot of money IF they release before the possible law suits arrive. Hopefully though, the companies will just see this as a kick in the sack for Valve and not bring any legal action against them.

Fair point, that is assuming they have grounds to sue them. As far as I am concerned, Valve will not be sued by Havok et all bacause of what has happened. Valve had taken resonable steps to ensure its network was safe and could/would only be sued if they a) didnt have any security in place or b) if their own code remained safe and the SDKs were the only thing that went public. Havok will not sue Valve in my opinion. Where did you get the idea that they would do anyway?

Unless they have access to the other company's source code, which is extremely unlikely unless another company is stupid enough to do their deving on windows based machines connected to the internet, and can show what lines where copied, then Valve won't be able to sue anyone. It's not hard to change the code a little anyway, to prevent legal action if you release your source code.

Its not the specific code thats the issue but the ideas contained within it. This was the most advanced game engine to date.

If this was the case, a development studio would loose alot of cred if it became apparent they done this somehow and there would be some sort of reaction from the community as a whole. If someone uses 1 or 2 of Valve's ideas, they willl get away with it and this would be harmless. If there start to rip off large portions of the code, it will be glaringly obvious.

feylya

Havok obvisously licences it's engine to games companies for quite a large sum of money. The engine is released in SDK format along with the dll's that make everything work. These DLL's and the SDK are included in the source code. So, through Valve's security leak, Havok's life work is on the internet for all to see and to copy. Exact same with Miles sound system. Hopefully there are no grounds for legel action but if Havok are vendictive, they may try to sue them for something like inadequate security measures to protect their code or some such.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by feylya
Havok obvisously licences it's engine to games companies for quite a large sum of money. The engine is released in SDK format along with the dll's that make everything work. These DLL's and the SDK are included in the source code. So, through Valve's security leak, Havok's life work is on the internet for all to see and to copy. Exact same with Miles sound system. Hopefully there are no grounds for legel action but if Havok are vendictive, they may try to sue them for something like inadequate security measures to protect their code or some such.

The thing is, Valve did not make these publicly available. They were stolen from Valve... There is no way that Valve can be responsible for this, unless they did not have any security in place. If they had adequate security in place, sufficient with regards to the risk, then they cant be touched.

feylya

But if they had sufficent security, the source wouldn't have gotten out. It's probably a weak case but the American courts aren't the most sane in the world.

_CreeD_

Jesus, you're confusing whether they should be sued with whether they can be. It wasn't deliberate, it's a terrible blow to valve in any case, so in an ideal world they shouldn't be sued. But they are responsible for maintainting security and the confidentiality of their partner's software, there doesn't need to be intention of malice for them to be held accountable for it's release. The fact is the wisest choice for their partner companies is to sue, it will return some probably loss of future revenues and reinforce the need for future partners to protect their intellectual property, there doesn't have to be any human-understanding involved, it's just business. Now there is also the point that in doing so they will alienate potential partners too, but I'd imagine that's not a huge factor, developers will always choose the tools they fine the most efficient and cost effective and of course be sure that this would never happen to them...right?....
I think Valve won't go out of business, but it is a possibility. Talented they may be but they've (and their publisher) obviously already invested a huge amount in so many years of development (paying the rates people of such talent would need). While this leak may not affect box-sales it will almost definitely affect potential sales of the Engine itself (which is extremely lucrative for a cutting edge engine).
Dodgy developers can easily base new code on the leaked source, how is anyone going to tell that the basic method for environment interaction in game B really came from Half Life 2 when it's buried in a couple of million lines of their own code. I mean take the way HL2 handled different environment substances, like the wood splintering, the idea of adding such interaction is not unique it's the code that handles it, but all we will see when we play game B is the implementation of that idea - not having Neo like matrixvision I don't think anyone is going to suddenly stop and say 'Look that's the code from Half Life2', it'd be 'that's Like half life 2' at most.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by feylya
But if they had sufficent security, the source wouldn't have gotten out. It's probably a weak case but the American courts aren't the most sane in the world.

They had adequate security with regards to what is at risk.

Shinji

Its not the specific code thats the issue but the ideas contained within it. This was the most advanced game engine to date.

This is not true. A number of other game engines out there - including the most recent builds of the Doom 3, Halo, Unreal and Lithtech engines, as well as numerous console engines such as Konami's internal middleware - are more advanced technically than the Half-Life 2 engine.

The engine used in Half-Life 2 is a fairly ugly hack, in fact - it's basically GLQuake (yes, still!) with a complex materials and lighting system bolted on to it. However that system is still not hugely advanced compared to other graphics solutions out there.

The unique nature of the HL2 engine comes from the (third party) Havok physics code and the extraordinary talent of Valve's artists, not from any particular trickery in the code. Besides; no graphics engine is ever founded on particularly clever original ideas. All the ideas being implemented in graphics now are at least twenty years old and based on very, very old mathematical equations or speculative Siggraph-style papers from decades ago.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by _CreeD_
Jesus, you're confusing whether they should be sued with whether they can be. It wasn't deliberate, it's a terrible blow to valve in any case, so in an ideal world they shouldn't be sued. But they are responsible for maintainting security and the confidentiality of their partner's software, there doesn't need to be intention of malice for them to be held accountable for it's release. The fact is the wisest choice for their partner companies is to sue, it will return some of their expected revenues and reinforce the need for future partners to protect their intellectual property, their doesn't have to be any human-understanding involved, it's just business. Now there is also the point that in doing so they will alienate potential partners too, but I'd imagine that's not a huge factor, developers will always choose the tools they fine the most efficient and cost effective and of course be sure that this would never happen to them...right?....
I think Valve won't go out of business, but it is a possibility. Talented they may be but they've (and their publisher) obviously already invested a huge amount in so many years of development (presumably paying the rates people of such talent would need). While this leak may not affect box-sales it will almost definitely affect potential sales of the Engine itself (which is extremely lucrative for a cutting edge engine).
Developers can easily base new code on the leaked source, how is anyone going to tell that the basic method for environment interaction in game B really came from Half Life 2 when it's buried in a couple of million lines of code. I mean take the way HL2 handled different environment substances, like the wood splintering, the idea of adding such interaction is not unique it's the code that handles it, but all we will see when we play game B is the implementation of that idea - not having Neo like matrixvision I don't think anyone is going to suddenly stop and say 'Look that's the code from Half Life2', it'd be that's Like half life 2 at most.

Some good points I suppose, didnt think of it that way.

With regards to whether they will/can be sued, can they actually be sued for such a thing. If they have provided adequate security to prevent the SDK entering the public domain, what else can they do. If they were sued, would this alone not be enough of a defence.

feylya

Originally posted by Shinji
This is not true. A number of other game engines out there - including the most recent builds of the Doom 3, Halo, Unreal and Lithtech engines, as well as numerous console engines such as Konami's internal middleware - are more advanced technically than the Half-Life 2 engine.

The engine used in Half-Life 2 is a fairly ugly hack, in fact - it's basically GLQuake (yes, still!) with a complex materials and lighting system bolted on to it. However that system is still not hugely advanced compared to other graphics solutions out there.

The unique nature of the HL2 engine comes from the (third party) Havok physics code and the extraordinary talent of Valve's artists, not from any particular trickery in the code. Besides; no graphics engine is ever founded on particularly clever original ideas. All the ideas being implemented in graphics now are at least twenty years old and based on very, very old mathematical equations or speculative Siggraph-style papers from decades ago.

But the thing about Half-Life2, besides the fact that it is NOT OpenGL, is that it's now the Microsoft DirectX 9 reference engine. Every single game thats released that claims to be DirectX 9 will be compared to it now. It was possibly a huge money maker for VALVe, selling on the engine, but now people can look at the code, see how certain things were done (like shaders) and jsut write their own versions of it.

That said, the Quake1 engine was leaked before release but no one remembers that.

_CreeD_

You're missing the point. For one we don't really know what security they had. From the sounds of it it could have been better. BUT that's not important. You can be sure that as part of their agreements with their partners they are held responsible for maintaining the security of the code, how they do it is irrelevant, from the day they signed up they are 100% responsible if the partners' code is ever released whether they gave it away or had it stolen.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by _CreeD_
You're missing the point. For one we don't really know what security they had. From the sounds of it it could have been better. BUT that's not important. You can be sure that as part of their agreements with their partners they are held responsible for maintaining the security of the code, how they do it is irrelevant, from the day they signed up they are 100% responsible if the partners' code is ever released whether they gave it away or had it stolen.

I would have thought that they are required to do as much as realistically required to ensure that the code is kept safe in proportion to the actual value of the code/SDK. Surely once they have done so, if the code is stolen then they are pretty much exempt from any possible legal proceedings. To a certain extent anyway... Maybe I am looking at it from the wrong angle?

monument

jesus_thats_gre, it is somewhat unlikely that Havok and others will sue sued Valve, however Valve was at fault in not keeping in the code secure.

In Havoks case the “actual value of the code” is very high – if Havoc’s code is used it is pretty much like piracy, but Havoc’s product isn’t mass market so it is potentially more damaging then copying a game for a friend.

MrPinK

Its not the specific code thats the issue but the ideas contained within it. This was the most advanced game engine to date

If it were just the ideas then anyone could just buy the finished game (eventually) and then steal their ideas. It's how they implemented the ideas that's important, ie the actually code.

If this was the case, a development studio would loose alot of cred if it became apparent they done this somehow and there would be some sort of reaction from the community as a whole. If someone uses 1 or 2 of Valve's ideas, they willl get away with it and this would be harmless. If there start to rip off large portions of the code, it will be glaringly obvious.

It wouldn't be as obvious as you might think. It's not as if someones going to just change the maps and skins and claim to have made the game from scratch, but they could lift the collision detection system, or use a tweaked version of the AI and it wouldn't be glaringly obvious. Even if it was, if you accuse another company of stealing from you without any proof what so ever and they'll sue you for defamation / slander / libel

Surely once they have done so, if the code is stolen then they are pretty much exempt from any possible legal proceedings. To a certain extent anyway... Maybe I am looking at it from the wrong angle?

It's no different from a bank. They can't say to you, "We did all we could to prevent it, but some guys stole all your money. Sorry, have a nice life." Banks are completely resposible for your money while it's in their possession, that's why they have so much insurance. Similarly, Valve are responsible for Havok's code while it is in their possession, it's them that will have to compensate Havok. Valve of course, can sue the guy whole stole the code to recoupe their losses, but it will most likely turn out to be some 16 year old who's a little short on cash. Their insurance may cover the costs if they were not negligent in their security tho.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by MrPinK
It's no different from a bank. They can't say to you, "We did all we could to prevent it, but some guys stole all your money. Sorry, have a nice life." Banks are completely resposible for your money while it's in their possession, that's why they have so much insurance. Similarly, Valve are responsible for Havok's code while it is in their possession, it's them that will have to compensate Havok. Valve of course, can sue the guy whole stole the code to recoupe their losses, but it will most likely turn out to be some 16 year old who's a little short on cash. Their insurance may cover the costs if they were not negligent in their security tho.

So insurance can cover any liability, assuming Valve were not lazy with security.

Retr0gamer

Ah sweet irony. The day I get my spanking new radeon 9800 pro is the day that the source code was leaked. If it happened to some one else I'd be laughing at them.

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by MrPinK
If it were just the ideas then anyone could just buy the finished game (eventually) and then steal their ideas. It's how they implemented the ideas that's important, ie the actually code.

I meant the design of the code, not ideas in the game. Obviously.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
I meant the design of the code, not ideas in the game. Obviously.

Do you mean the above?

Or do you mean?

Its not the specific code thats the issue but the ideas contained within it. This was the most advanced game engine to date