Westlink tollbridge

Dampsquid

Why does the westlink tollbridge have people standing at the lanes where you throw your money into a basket.
Especially at peak times... what is the point of it?????

Victor

Sometimes it (the coins, the backet, whatever) doesn't work and it's better to have someone there at peak times than have a huge tailback. Then you have muppets who don't have coins or don't have money or only have a credit card or only have Sterling or whatever.

Our man in Havana

What is done to those with no money or credit cards?

rander00

They get de **** kicked out of them by all the ppl in the tailbk.

Or someone bails them out.

gurramok

Guess I was one of those muppets

One time I was at toll bridge booth, I could not find the proper amount of coins in the car !
This was at the place where you dont throw them into the basket but hand 'em to the NTR person. Me and mate were frantically looking for the missing coins which were either on us\in the astray holder\under seat
We were searching pockets for a missing 50cents, it took a few min to find it while ye man was saying 'ye are holding up the traffic lads, big queue behind ya'

I didnt give a fluk anyway about the queue, plenty of other lanes available for others to go into, for a lousy 50cents I couldnt care less, sure they are ripping us off at that bridge anyway !!

Guy:Incognito

its rheyre bridge they can charge what they like no1 is forcing u to use it. if u think ur being ripped off for sumting y do u buy/use it

Our man in Havana

Originally posted by Stekelly
its rheyre bridge they can charge what they like no1 is forcing u to use it. if u think ur being ripped off for sumting y do u buy/use it

There is no alternative

therecklessone

And before the M50 was opened, you did what to travel from point A to point B? There is an alternative, don't use the motorway...

Our man in Havana

Such a journey would be stupid and time consuming.

therecklessone

Originally posted by Bond-James Bond
Such a journey would be stupid and time consuming.

Agreed. However, you didn't say that. You said...

Originally posted by Bond-James Bond
There is no alternative

There is.

You want to save time? Travel the M50, and pay the toll.

Our man in Havana

It's a fair cop:D

Seth Brundle

Originally posted by Bond-James Bond
Such a journey would be stupid and time consuming.

It is usually more time consumint to go via the M50 toll bridge

herbie747

Originally posted by gurramok
One time I was at toll bridge booth, I could not find the proper amount of coins in the car !
This was at the place where you dont throw them into the basket but hand 'em to the NTR person. Me and mate were frantically looking for the missing coins which were either on us\in the astray holder\under seat
We were searching pockets for a missing 50cents, it took a few min to find it while ye man was saying 'ye are holding up the traffic lads, big queue behind ya'

I didnt give a fluk anyway about the queue, plenty of other lanes available for others to go into, for a lousy 50cents I couldnt care less, sure they are ripping us off at that bridge anyway !!

Man, I can't stand you idiots. I always seem to be stuck behind some moran like you. :rolleyes:

query

I travel quite frequently from Blanchardstown to Lucan or Clondalkin. It is so much quicker going across the back roads than the M50 - and a more pleasant drive!

pclancy

I leaned the best ways around the toll bridge at peak times when i was working up there. Between lucan and blanch there are some cool backroads which dont seem to get used that much. I was working as a field service engineer so getting from one end of the city to the other as quickly as possible often meant going through some parts of town or the country but theres always a better way then the M50. During the day when its not so busy its grand but at peak times forget it. Especially when you have muppets holding up the traffic.

My worst hate is when you see people going into the eazypass lane, going the whole way up to the barrier and then saying "oh! S hit! I didnt realise it was eazypass only! They must have ten million signs all around that lane saying what it is. If you use the tollbridge a lot get eazypass, it saves a bit of time allright.

DaithiSurfer

Last time i looked up at the signs on the M50 EVERY booth had Eazypass written over it.
They should take the advert off of the No Eazypass lanes.



What about this link for a solution?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=116064

Silent Bob

What ticks me off about the M50 toll bridge is this.

Back when we had 20% VAT they added VAT to the 80p charge for the bridge and got the figure of £1 instead of 96p this is a 4p "hidden" increase (most people say 20% of £1 is 20p, okay they did it right). Taking into account that VAT changed back to 21% shortly afterward still doesn't work out right (should be 96.8p not £1)

Then we change to the Euro and they increase the charge to €1.30 instead of €1.27

Then they get a new bridge built about a year or so before the toll period for the old bridge runs out. Somehow I think that the toll operators will manage to extend the toll on the original bridge to last as long as the toll period on the new one.

pclancy

Originally posted by DaithiSurfer
Last time i looked up at the signs on the M50 EVERY booth had Eazypass written over it.
They should take the advert off of the No Eazypass lanes.


ah comon! You can use eazypass in any of the lanes but there are HUGE signs, cones and markers pointing to the eazypass only lane and its pretty obvious to anyone who can read that its for eazypass users only!!! Yet you still get people driving into it then panicking at the last moment when they realise what it is.

pclancy

it doesnt matter anyway, that toll bridge makes the M50 the laughing stock of europe. Plonking that yoke right in the middle of the motorway, creating delays that spread the whole length of the M50 was such a stupid, irish way of doing things that Id say the whole of europe is laughing at us. Imagine how much less congestion there would be if it wasnt there.

DaithiSurfer

Well guess what? the traffic is so bad there that most people dont even see the signs much less read them until they are in a lane for one of them.
Its never happened to me but i fully understand why people end up in the easypass only lane.

pclancy,
there is an answer to removing the tolls at the toll bridge.
See the link in my last post.
Dont think it'll ever happen tho. Maybe they like the traffic jams at the bridge. Gives them an excuse to tax cars more by saying its the cars that are the problem.

Fudger

totally agree with pclancy.... the M50 is a total joke they have a toll bridge slap bang in the middle of the only city centre bye-pass road even though it isn't finished for one and has been under construction for almost 20 years.

Fiction or Fact???????? Just some things I heard.................

It can all be tied back to certain politicians and their cronies, they are the ones who bought the land around the M50 route (strangely enough, where did they get the idea....hmmmm) anyway, who then in turn have to be compensated for the route through THEIR land, but hey.... they want more compensation, so they drag it through the courts holding up the construction as settlement after settlement has to be agreed so they make an excuse that the bridge construction has to be paid for... hence the toll, even though by now the bridge must have been paid for around 100 times over. Now then...... after the compensations are paid then it emerges the evil M50 route land buying thats been going on and we have ourselves another yee haw darn tooten Tribunal to find out whats been happening and some nature reserve route or snail is used as an excuse to yet slow it up again...... In the meantime the toll goes up, no developments are done to the original bridge car tax rises, insurance rises, cost of living rises, petrol prices rise, car tyre prices rise, car furry dice prices rise and then they announance a new bridge is to be constructed (after the money we have all been paying i would have tought they would have had a better bridge, something made of gold with sparklers and fireworks going off when you cross it) but no its the exact same as the first one (tried and tested i guess) or else some bloke had the bridge in his back garden and sold it to the NRA at half price and threw in a few new toll booths at no extra cost................

hmmmmmmm interesting

So as you speed down (25 Miles an Hour, if your very lucky on the M50) in your new spanking car after paying your car insurance, car tax, Vehicle Reg tax( A total joke don't get me started), filled the thing with petrol and your furry dice and arrive at the pearly gates (Toll Booth) fumble around for your 1.30 euros (god help ya if your driving a truck, thats alot of fumbling to make the toll) while in the easy pass lane, just remember that your 1.30 goes a long way to the infrastural network of this great nation (long way being an off shore swiss bank account no doubt to an exiled priest with a son, don't deny that it's not possible...... jesus i'm starting to actually think that now........)

They even announced the other day, as good old Bertie was cutting the ribbon to open the new bridge (even though its been open for the last month or so and we have been paying a toll on it or was that toll imaginery seeing as the bridge wasn't there till Bertie cut the ribbon, which was probably the ribbon used to open the first one, just tied together again) that .............

"Its not the toll booths that cause the back logs on the M50"

Well then why don't they have a toll free day and see what happens!!!!!!!! the sh*tes

God i think i'll just go through town from now on and stop depressing myself.... instead i'll sit in my car stuck in traffic being diverted left right and centre around the LUAS works....

As for the LUAS........... maybe another day..................

deecom

like it.....

pclancy

I would be in the knots laughing at that if i didnt realise that every bit of it is true!

joseph brand

Nicely wrote Fudger. Damn Fine Fail, and their henchmen.

Toll bridge causes too much traffic (always quiet on exit side of booths, jammers on entry side) and does this not cost the country money in,:

1. Petrol, cars startin and stoppin every minute, clutches been overused,

2. Employees late, deliveries late and what not.

Oul Bertie on Primetime last night, showed him and the 'Gang', out at Galway races collectin money, mainly off Vintners and publicans, farmers and peeps in construction industry, the b*****ds.

Slide of hand, .. . . brown envelope, thank u very much.

'I'd like to see the Don'. 'You may see Don Ahernioni when he is ready, and he likes to take his time so u may be waitin a while'.
Waitin few years for his govmt to do anythin. tsshhhhh:mad:

deecom

"I would be in the knots laughing at that if i didnt realise that every bit of it is true!"
I totaly agree, but if you dont laugh, you'd cry in this country!

Victor

Originally posted by pclancy

Originally posted by DaithiSurfer
Last time i looked up at the signs on the M50 EVERY booth had Eazypass written over it.They should take the advert off of the No Eazypass lanes. ah comon! You can use eazypass in any of the lanes but there are HUGE signs, cones and markers pointing to the eazypass only lane and its pretty obvious to anyone who can read that its for eazypass users only!!! Yet you still get people driving into it then panicking at the last moment when they realise what it is.

Does it actually say "NO CASH"?

Cromwelly

Does it actually say "NO CASH"?

Yes, but only in English. Maybe if they offered translations in Stupidish.

They should double the price of the toll if paying cash in an Ezpass lane.

With the extra cash saved they could build a clock tower and employ a spotty youth with an assault rifle to weed out white vans.

Our man in Havana

what have you against white vans?

Cromwelly

Maybe it's the whole achromic commercialism bag I detest.

Or maybe the fact that they're so often driven by blue collar types who would give the average mountain gorilla a smug look of superiority ?

I guess they have a part to play.

They're not as bad as Micras.

Our man in Havana

Originally posted by Cromwelly
They're not as bad as Micras.

I drive a Micra:D
You looking for a fight?

a_ominous

I took the bus in today and noticed that when I passed over the M50 that the tailback was southbound. There was no delay northbound at the tollbooth. Was rather surprised at this. NTR, of course said last weekend at the opening of new bridge the delays are due to the interchanges. The worst of these being the Mad Cow roundabout.

Any other time when I'm going to work on the bike, I don't have time to look at this, but I have seen longer tailbacks from N4 onto M50 southbound.

So NTR might be right :eek:
for the moment ... Roll on Luas

Cromwelly

I drive a Micra
You looking for a fight?

Spoken like a true Micra driver.

Our man in Havana

Originally posted by Cromwelly
Spoken like a true Micra driver.

LOL

Why do you hate us so much?

Cromwelly

Hate is such a strong word.

I only dislike Micras in fairness.

Now I hate

• White Vans
• The drivers of northern reg vehicles.
• The driver of the Guinness truck whose route involves the M50.
• Mothers who insist on using a Range Rover to drive 5 mins to their creche.
• Organised religion
• Travellers

I don't want to cause unnecessary offence here, just to be clear when I say travellers I mean those filthy, hedgehog eating caravan dwellers and not people who choose to travel the world. Especially via the Westlink Tollbridge.

To show balance, I think Motorbikes should be allowed through the worstlink toll free. I have never been stuck behind a motorbike. When bikers do really stupid things they tend to die young. Thus there are few old and incompetent bikers. Conversely car drivers over 60 should be forced to retest every morning. In Foxrock. Hate Foxrock.

Silvera

Conor Faughnan, of AA Ireland, has a simple but effective answer to the rush hour tail-backs at the West Link toilbooths -

simply let all vehicles through for free !!!

Sounds good eh !?!

Let me elaborate, he states that the government is already getting a tidy percentage of toll booth profits, and could easily subsidise each vehicle that passes through for a two hour period in the morning, and a two hour period in the evening (i.e. peak periods) - and still be left with a tidy sum !

(He quoted exact figures (€ millions !) in the press recently, but I don't have them to hand just now).

Congestion is currently costing the ecomony tens of millions (or is it hundreds of millions ?) each year, and this solution would be a drop-in-the-ocean in comparison !

Toll-free peak-period travel already happens in other countries.

Silvera.

Seth Brundle

With regard to Silvera's post, see http://www.aaireland.ie/news/article.asp?news_Id=293

Cromwelly

simply let all vehicles through for free !!!

That's not 'free' though, the government obtains revenue from taxpayers.
Why should taxpayers across Ireland be paying for the traffic problem on a single motorway bridge in Dublin ?

In fairness the Eazypass system works pretty well, I use the M50 every day and there are worse jams at some of the sliproads.

Force employers to stagger working hours.
Start photographing car windscreens to capture road tax evaders.
Start building a third lane.
Build an interconnecting public transport system.

Silvera

If you read kbannon's link above, you will see that these "toll-free periods" could easily be funded from money the government gets from toll's collected each day - not central exchequer funds.

(Your ideas are not bad either).


Even with the new bridge, the congestion situation has not improved much, therefore, Conor Faughnan's idea is still very relevant.

Seth Brundle

The easypass solution is only a partial help - those who use those lanes still are part of the huge queue waiting to get near the toll booths. Until the booths are opened during peak periods (or removed altogether ) then the problem will stay.
The situation on most European motorways is one where payment is usually collected when you are leaving the motorway, not half way down it.

Capt'n Midnight

Imagine if you took one euro per vehicle to pay for the new bridge.
€30m/70,000=429days= 14 months - less time than it took to build.
THE NEW BRIDGE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PAID FOR FROM EXISTING TOLLS BEFORE IT OPPENED

Sources:
The Westlink toll bridge is the busiest in Europe
http://www.city.ie/august2003/citynews01.htm
Current volumes are 70,000 vehicles per day, http://www.aaireland.ie/news/article.asp?news_Id=293)
http://www.nra.ie/News/PressReleases/2000/d115.HTML.html
The bridge and other improvement works will cost almost IR£17 million, which will be met by NTR (Actually was €30m when oppened)
Background to NTR
http://homepage.tinet.ie/~camway/key_issues/tolling/dan_white_20010923.htm

PEDESTRIAN/CYCLIST ROUTE AT SECOND WESTLINK BRIDGE.
http://www.fingalcoco.ie/minutes/2002/ff/0114/FF20020042.htm
(is this still a pipe dream ?)

Cromwelly

THE NEW BRIDGE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PAID FOR FROM EXISTING TOLLS BEFORE IT OPPENED

Err.. bit late for that though. I doubt that the government were forced at gunpoint to allow NTR to build the bridge. They were just shortsighted enough to allow them to do so. But they did, so there's no point wondering how many hospitals could have been built with the money instead.

If you read kbannon's link above, you will see that these "toll-free periods" could easily be funded from money the government gets from toll's collected each day - not central exchequer funds.

Ok, government collects less money than planned in exchange for opening the barriers in the rush hour.

Firstly, what service suffers as a result of this shortfall in revenue or how is the shortfall made up ?

Secondly, let's face it, people who don't otherwise need to will ensure they get through the toll bridge during 'happy hour'. It's amazing what people will do to save €1.30. It wouldn't be worse than at present but it will be damn busy.

gurramok

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight
PEDESTRIAN/CYCLIST ROUTE AT SECOND WESTLINK BRIDGE.
(is this still a pipe dream ?)

The excuses they give are lame in that report. They couldn't of been arsed.
I know of a high level bridge in north of Holland going over a huge dyke where the height is comparable and the distance is longer where there is a pedestrian/cycle lane alongside the motorway with suffcient concrete barriers between the 4-wheelers and 2 wheelers.
If it were implemented here on the M50 toll bridge it would go a long way to encourage alternatives means of transport on that route.

Victor

Of course free peak time travel would mean everyone would travel peak time. However if you made it cheaper off peak then fewer people would use it peak time ....

Originally posted by kbannon
With regard to Silvera's post, see http://www.aaireland.ie/news/article.asp?news_Id=293

That press release is two years old.

Free is theft.

Silvera

The report may be two years old, but it is still very relevant because the second bridge hasn't alleviated the congestion problem to any great degree.

Free is not theft - Free peak-period travel makes sense compared to the current chaos.

Silent Bob

Originally posted by Victor
Free is theft.

Theft is when you steal something, vis I take something of yours and you no longer have it.

If a service is offered as 'free' then it is not theft. If the toll operators are informed by the government that they must offer a toll-free period then that isn't theft either, the toll operators are only there under licence from the government.

mobby

Like to see them open it up for for free for a day to see if it helps with the traffic, Surly it cost more in lost time, use of fuel being stuck in traffic, etc etc .
I never use it unless I have to, rather drive backroads may take longer but at least your moving (just)

Cromwelly

If the toll operators are informed by the government that they must offer a toll-free period then that isn't theft either

What gives the government the right to dictate anything to NTR ?
I thought their contract had another 17 odd years to run.

Capt'n Midnight

Q: What gives the government the right to dictate anything to NTR ?
A: Compulsary Purchase Order

If they had included the original 70meter limit on tail backs, if they had included a buy out clause (ie. a fair cap eg. 150% of remaining earnings based on the original projections) so I'm saying that negligence on the Gov'ts part with the contracts is the only reason why they would even need to consider a CPO - so while they can't solve the problem overnight - they could have it sorted before the Christmas rush. (Note to self - Avoid Blanchardstown)

While on the subject of Gov't negotiations at €30m to build the bridge it's a lot less than 1/30 of what abuse victims could get. €30m is also about 0.5% of the other jobs NRA have on thier books at the moment.

To be fair the bridge is more than 30 times what the Gov't will spend to open the Hospital in Blanch and there is [Expletive] all broadband in D15 either ....

Cromwelly

Compulsory purchase orders don't apply to rights under a contract as far as I know.

The Government could only offer to buy NTR's rights under the contract. I wouldn't like to see it, NTR have the edge over the gov in the area of competence and lack of corruption.

This is all by the by. The major delays aren't at the tollbridge, they are at every junction of the M50.

Victor

Originally posted by Silent Bob
Theft is when you steal something, vis I take something of yours and you no longer have it. If a service is offered as 'free' then it is not theft. If the toll operators are informed by the government that they must offer a toll-free period then that isn't theft either, the toll operators are only there under licence from the government.

Anything that doesn't have a user charge or an adequate user charge will be taken advantage of. For example, Dublin Corporation's income for parking meters (not including clamp release fee) doubled when they introduced clamping.

Likewise if the westlink is free at peak hours, people will only use it at peak hours. If anything it would be better to have it free off peak, to even out traffic flow.

Cromwelly

If anything it would be better to have it free off peak, to even out traffic flow.

WestLink off peak = between 03:10am and 03:15am.