Copyrights...

Sarky

A lot of you were asking, so here's the basics of the matter, thanks to various knowledgeable folks I asked. If that's still not enough, I recommend you find yourself some books on Irish copyright laws.


Copyright for individual posts rest with the poster, assuming they aren't plagiarising something.

Copyright for the site as an entity greater than the sum of its parts rests with boards.ie Ltd

In posting, the user is licencing boards.ie Ltd to use their work.

They can share the work anyway they want, anywhere else they want.

If someone steals their work, the post is still there, timestamped. This would go a long way towards proving that it is the poster's work.

The one thing they can't do, is stop Boards.ie from copying, since we need to do that to have it on the site.

That said, if they sell it on the grounds that it won't be on any website for a given length of time (not uncommon in contracts) then we'll delete the piece(s) as long as you ask nicely.

Do bear in mind that many publishers refuse to publish anything that has previouly been published. This often includes the internet, and thus includes posting it on this site. If a work is good enough then they may forego that stipulation but in many cases will point blank refuse.

Robert ninja

If whatever it is you want to Copyright is on your PC. Then attach it to an email and send it to yourself DO THIS BEFORE EVER SENDING IT ON THE INTERNET. The time and date of when it was made will be saved in the email AND the file. If it ever comes to court, show the email. The date will be the earliest news of it. Any other copies will be later, you have the earliest. It's also smart to Blog your creations as they are worked through, this is almost full proof.

If it is not on your computer, I think letters work the same way. Just don't open the letter when it gets back to you. Write the date and all in it or something.

Spyral

I got done one time, wrote a hobby based article. Posted it on a forum and a former mate put it on his clubs webite. I had a disargreement and asked my work be removed but he just took my name off it and then claimed that it was his !

F**king @$$H()|_£;'s like that annoy me, so lession is copywrite everything and dont share.

iMADEtheBBC

Sending your work to yourself or your solicitor using registered post is an interesting idea. Can anybody cite any precedent or case law that demonstrates this is an effective mechanism ? It doesn't help your case if your work is plagarised.

RandolphEsq

doonothing wrote: »

would the fact that you've posted your work up here serve as a bit of evidence that you are the creator of the piece?

no, it isnt even safe to post it up here if you havnt copyrighted it first, you are putting it in a public forum where anyone could copy it and claim as thier own.
Never post work you dont want stolen until you have copyrighted it first


The easiest way is putting a copy of it in the mail to yourself and using the PM date as your copyright date. Never open it and put a little note on the envelope to remind you whats inside

Matt Holck

I supposes it's to much to ask other posters to step from anonimity and provide witness

qualiserospero

As far as I know, posting to yourself won't hold up in court. I can't quote any legal cases or anything but I've consulted a few in the know people about it and they reckon it's a waste of money and nothing more.

In Ireland I don't think there is any copyright facility. To my knowledge the rule is 'prime face' which is basically the author claiming the ownership is assumed to be so and that he/she can back it up with whatever evidence they may have from the writing process. I think if you type (C) Copyright Your Name on the document then that's good enough...

Personally I think it's really weak to have such a backward system in place. If I write a script or a short story that I think may have potential and that I'm going to send to a consultant or whatever, I always register it with the Writers Guild of America (East or West).

You don't need to be a member, you can do it online, submit the actual document and specify what medium it is intended for. It only costs 20 dollars, you have the ownership for 5 years and you have the option to renew it at that point. Handy when all else fails.

Jessieannas

What if someone steals the envelope with your work in it? Or if you spill a drink on it? Or if theres a fire? Basically, what if something happens to the envelope holding your work and you've already put it up here, or sent a copy to someone else or something? xxx

iMADEtheBBC

"poor mans copyright"

http://www.paulrapp.com/display_article.php?id=12

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poor_man%27s_copyright

http://songsculptor.com/copyright.htm



When you create an original work and put it in a tangible form (written lyrics on paper, an audio recording of the song) then you have copyright protection.

'Poor man's copyright' may or may not provide a way to prove that you are the author of the original work. Personally I wouldn't depend on it.

qualiserospero

Agree with above post. Once it's written and you lay claim to a piece of work, you should be able to back it up. If, for example, you had the most original idea of recent years, totally individual, and sent it around to a few producers. Then 2 years later a couple of movies come out with that exact idea and you want to take both studios to court, which hearing will you break open the envelope in? Unless you've got multiple envelopes lying around posted to yourself; the fact of the matter is one copy can only be used on one occasion.

It makes sense to simply register it with the US guild, they can, at request, provide you with a copy of your submitted work and back up your registration date with the number they issue you... it's maybe not air-tight because a clever producer will change the details just enough to make it that bit different, but at least you've more of a chance to succeed in winning your case with legitimate documentation.

Fiona500

The way to copyright music and literature (of any kind) in Ireland is to send it to yourself by registered post. As long as you do not open the envelope and keep the original receipt issued to you by the post office this WILL hold up in court. If you do a lot of writing then this does get expensive, but it would be a lot more expensive to have your work ripped off.

You can get more information on the Irish Copyright Licensing Agency website (www.icla.ie). On their Information page, scroll down to "Protection is Automatic" and read the third paragraph in that section. It provides details of how to prove the date of your work.

NOTE: Sending an email to yourself does not constitute as "the same thing" and may not hold up in a court of law.

Good luck everyone!

iMADEtheBBC

Fiona can you post a link to a case where using 'poor mans copyright' has been successful in a court ?

samonteroel

for me internet materials are difficult to secure. yes we can say that it is copyrighted but other people may use it somewhere else without our knowledge, we are talking here of whole world.

barby_

Hi guys,
I am just wondering about google docs.... If I use that system to write my novel, is it still under the copyright protection?

barby_

I found this link:

http://www.google.com/google-d-s/legal.html

"COPYRIGHT AND PERMISSION NOTICE

Copyright (c) 1995-2003 International Business Machines Corporation and others All rights reserved.

Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so, provided that the above copyright notice(s) and this permission notice appear in all copies of the Software and that both the above copyright notice(s) and this permission notice appear in supporting documentation."

As I am not a native English speaker, I am getting a bit confused.. does it mean that they can do what they want with my writing? Even selling it to third parties?

pickarooney

barby_ wrote: »

I found this link:

http://www.google.com/google-d-s/legal.html

"COPYRIGHT AND PERMISSION NOTICE

Copyright (c) 1995-2003 International Business Machines Corporation and others All rights reserved.

Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so, provided that the above copyright notice(s) and this permission notice appear in all copies of the Software and that both the above copyright notice(s) and this permission notice appear in supporting documentation."

As I am not a native English speaker, I am getting a bit confused.. does it mean that they can do what they want with my writing? Even selling it to third parties?

As far as I can tell this excerpt relates to the software (Google docs presumably) used to create/edit documents and not to the content itself. I know Google have a habit of adding rather dodgy End User Licence Agreements to their programs, so in case of doubt I would steer clear of it.

Calvin141170

Seriously guys... come on! Google isn't looking to steal anybody's rights to documents written in Google Docs.

Copyright in a work rests with the owner as soon as it is created, in whatever medium -- electronic or otherwise, online or off, whether it's finished or just started. It's important to remember that there's no copyright on ideas -- it's the specific words / arrangement / composition that constitutes your original work. There's nothing to stop someone taking your idea and developing it / reworking it using their own words.

Google Docs is just a software tool, like your word processor, that you can use to create your work. It's an incredibly handy and convenient tool, especially if you're working collaboratively on a project.

I use it all the time to write original work, and have never worried about, or had issues relating to copyright. Seriously, I wouldn't worry about it.

barby_

Thanks a mil for your answers pickarooney and Calvin141170, I feel much better now
I guess they would not steal anybody's docs, but as I heard so many different things on google, I just wanted to clear my mind up.

Inari

The line between inspired by, and stolen from is a rather blurry one. Easiest way to protect your work, is (as many have said) to have a timestamped copy of your work. Physical copies work better as computers can be manipulated. In a copyright battle you're trying to prove that you're the original author of the work, so anything you can do to prove that is a step in your favour

mandy_m

aha thx

me-skywalker

Does posting something onto Boards copyright it?

dawvee

If you're so desperate to prove that you created a particular work at a particular date, your best bet would probably be to have a solicitor certify the document. It's a relatively cheap service, usually for verifying copies of passports, etc., but I'm sure there are solicitors willing to seal, sign and date a manuscript for a few bob.

Also, unlike the postal route, the above is pretty much guaranteed to hold up in court.

WHU

I read this on another site:
"The poor man's copywrite has been wortless since 1909. It's got nothing whatsoever to do with copyright; it instead results from gross misunderstandings of now-outmoded evidence law. If an author keeps a system of records in the ordinary course of business, such as record copies of submissions and a corresponding submission log, that is just as good (if not better) for admitting in a court of law to prove priority in a "who wrote it first" dispute."

And

"The idea behind Poorman's Copyright is that you place your manuscript in an envelope and mail it to yourself; the sealed envelope and the postmark are then "proof" of your creation date.
It is also a myth; poorman's copyright will do nothing for you in terms of asserting your rights. You have copyright from the moment you create a text or other applicable work. Copyright is automatic. Registration of copyright is another matter. Poorman's Copyright never really worked; it wasn't intended to be used for copyright protection; instead, it an artifact of evidence law, not copyright law. "

Just thought I'd share

EileenG

In a battle over copyright, your best defence is your early drafts. If a case goes to court, the person who has the drafts which show the work in progress will win.

Amhran Nua

Just a word on international copyrights, Ireland is a signatory of the Berne Convention on copyright...

The Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works, usually known as the Berne Convention, is an international agreement governing copyright, which was first accepted in Berne, Switzerland in 1886.

...

Under the Convention, copyrights for creative works are automatically in force upon their creation without being asserted or declared. An author need not "register" or "apply for" a copyright in countries adhering to the Convention. As soon as a work is "fixed", that is, written or recorded on some physical medium, its author is automatically entitled to all copyrights in the work and to any derivative works, unless and until the author explicitly disclaims them or until the copyright expires.

Foreign authors are given the same rights and privileges to copyrighted material as domestic authors in any country that signed the Convention.

On registering a copyright:

Protection is automatic

There is no system of registration for copyright protection in Ireland as copyright arises automatically on the creation of an original work. You do not need to publish your work, to put a copyright notice on it or do anything else to be covered by copyright - protection is free and automatic.

A work is protected automatically from the time it is first written down or recorded in some way, provided that it has resulted from the creator's skill and effort and is not simply copied from another work.

Depending on the circumstances, it may be difficult for an author to prove that he or she had created a work at a specific point in time. Proof of this fact might be needed in an action for infringement. An author can create such proof by sending a copy of the work to himself or herself by registered post, keeping the post office receipt and leaving the envelope unopened. Another way of creating this type of proof is to deposit the work with an organisation such as the Copyright Protection Agency, which, for a fee, will provide the necessary proof should the need arise.

So basically preponderance of evidence, really. Keeping incremental copies as the work develops sounds like a great idea.

north.

very useful information
thanks for sharing!

Huawei Gallagher

You could place a watermark in your work, such as using the letters of your name as the first letters of the words of a particular sentence. Then outdated legislation should tell others your legitimate enterprise origin.

PS There is a hidden watermark in the underlined sentence above, I think it would quite easily prove that someone copied my post .


© Leo Tolstoy;)

EileenG

Stanley Blade wrote: »

You could place a watermark in your work, such as using the letters of your name as the first letters of the words of a particular sentence. Then outdated legislation should tell others your legitimate enterprise origin.

PS There is a hidden watermark in the underlined sentence above, I think it would quite easily prove that someone copied my post .


© Leo Tolstoy;)

Come on! What court is going to trawl through your work looking for stuff like this? Keep your early drafts, that's all the proof you need.

Eoinp

Read over this thread while looking at responses to my Getting published thread above. It would be helpful to think of this discussion as two separate discussions COPYRIGHT and PIRACY.

COPYRIGHT
1) Copyright is conferred on created work. It does not actually protect that work as it is a concept. However, establishing that you are the copyright holder of your own work confers rights on you. Enforcing these rights enables you to take action to protect your copyrighted works.

2) The best practice is to keep notes and records of your work (especially submissions and early drafts including rejections etc.) as evidence of your efforts rather than proof of your copyright. Any such evidence will be compelling if the need arises to ever PROVE the copyright belongs to you.

3) If a conflict arises over copyright the balance of probability is that you will be a published author and your publisher will be as keen as you are to protect your copyrights because you have licensed them to exploit it.

4) Sometimes ideas and themes touched on (or forming the bulk of your work) may be "taken" by another unscrupulous author/publisher/film-maker. Proving that this violates your copyright is going to be hard unless it is blatant. Of course, it may well be that those creators had similar ideas to your own and were just luckier in finding an avenue to express them.

PIRACY
1) Piracy is when someone takes your content without permission and reuses it. There does not necessarily have to be a profit motive to the act

2) Best practice is to first approach the party in question and request that they either a) acknowledge or b) take down the content in question (depending on what it is you want them to do) or c) pay for the unauthorized use of the content.

3) If they fail to respond then it is time to get lawyers involved (if you are serious).

4) You always need to ask the question before getting into an enforcement situation, does this piracy help or hurt me? If it helps then maybe you don't NEED to do anything, if it hurts then take action. Remember that one illegal download does not equal one lost sale, but on the other hand a stream of freely available content may slow sales of your future content. Balance is a good thing.

clm

I sat in on a talk given by someone from the Irish Copyright Licensing Agency about this issue. They said that as there is no copyright registry in Ireland that Poor Man's Copyright is the way to go i.e. send it to yourself in a sealed envelope by registered post and when you receive it do NOT open it. The post office seal with the date acts as legal proof that it belongs to you.

I asked about emailing it to yourself or posting it to online boards. They said it would be a lot harder to prove ownership as computer data can be manipulated, dates can be changed etc... so an post is the way to go. And as Eoin said keep all records of letters regarding the works even if they're rejections you'd like to forget about!

Anyway if you're really worried the ICLA should be able to help you out, http://www.icla.ie/