Netsource, the final answer to the caps

muffen

I sent an email to their support, you can see it below (with personal information removed).

This is their reply to my question on why I can no longer livestream shoutcast, why I can't play UT2003 (150 - 250 in ping) and why I cannot DL in more than 22K/sec.

Email begin --->

The contention ratio for SOHO is 48:1. This is not yet been felt by the vast majority of customers, and most customers will never experience it's full impact. However the highest consumers of bandwidth will feel it first, as an adaption of their maximum available download rate to 192Kbit/s.
In your case you are experiencing this restriction now because your
consumption is in the top 10% bandwith consumers, based on the consumption of all our customers. The restriction policy will be
reviewed in two months.

<--- Email end

So, if I understand this correctly, I am capped at 192Kbit, and it is up for review in 2 months time. Also, it is not the top 10 downloader that get capped, its the top 10%.
This means that if you get capped or not is relative to other people. As people will notice and may start downloading less (with the cap its harder to reach a high amout of DLed data), other people will be capped.

I am awaiting a call from their support department. If they don't tell me something nice, I am not going to use netsource anymore. The promise of no DL cap is pure bull, and I feel that I am better off with the ESAT 5gig cap.

To all you worried people out there, this is my usage stats:

I have DLed about 12gigs in one month (not 30 as other people). Add the livestreaming radio, some gameplaying and browsing, I might have reached 15gigs.
I have downloaded a full installation of Linux (5 CD's, just got the ADSL and wanted to setup a linuxserver), some mp3s and two divxmovies. I don't run filesharing apps or DL 24/7. Because I used it "too much" in one month, I am now capped for two.

My conclusion: don't get fooled by the promise of no DL cap, only get Netsource if you want to DL and nothing else (forget livestreaming radio etc).

Sad it had to be this way, I feel I have been cheated of my money. Esat, here I come!

Diabolus

Netfarce will not be recieving any money off me.
Im not capped but i feel every 1 should stop the money flow if this situation is not rectified soon. We pay the money now show us the produce! If not its off to COMREG and Esat...

carbsy

I've allready cancelled the direct debit until they either agree with a lower monthly rate for a 192kbs/sec service or revert back to the original 512kbs/sec.

carb.

P.S. I haven't phoned,written or emailed them regarding the issue , the same way as they didn't even have the courtesy of contacting me before they decided to play these childish games.

CyberGhost

do you have RADSL?

i asked them, that when install their SME(ADSL) if i get constant speed and low pings, they said yes, i told them, that if i won't get what they promised i'd disconnect, and don't pay a ****

Blank

This is awful, ****ing retarded netfarce. If this is the way its going to be im totally in despair over it. I really dont wont to leave netsource i was happy giving them plenty of time to fix their problems but this is just unbelieveably bad business. And if i dont like it i have to push off which because of there 2 month rolling policy is gonna cost me more bleedin money.

If their willing to break other polices why not that too so i can get the **** away from them.

ARGH what else can we do i mean even if we have legal grounds to procecute them(which i doubt) at the end of the day that will just cost both parties and no one will be happy - i dont see how it could get back the original service, those days are gone. I was really hoping this situation would be over soon, how naive am I?

d0gb0y

I'm sorry to hear its happened to you but it just goes to show that it is wrong. How can they decide who is a heavy downloader from 1 or 2 months use? Most people have come on to the service from years of been on a 56k so its kinda obivious that most people will download a lot in the first few months.

Diabolus

Thank you for the support but if you are not been capped do not stop the direct debit as it will only result in trouble for you. If you have been capped then you have every reason to stop the direct debit as you are not getting the service that you originally signed for.

I think the main problem about this is the way they went about it. They should have informed the people who are been targeted with a letter explaining the reasons & also giving the option to back out of the contract.

Diabolus

Originally posted by Blank
I was really hoping this situation would be over soon, how naive am I?

Naive is not the word.
Netfarces heads are firmly wedged up their own arse's. Cappers Unite! Your UNLIMITED service is being Temporarily (for 2 months) Limited. Your paying €63 a Month for this service which is only running at 40% of it efficiency. I say drop the DD money to 40% of its total too (This comes to €25.20 - Sounds like a reasonable price for just over Dual ISDN)

Dont tell Netfarce cause i dont recall them telling you that they had screwed u over...

P.S I'm still paying for it in full as im no Capper!

DaithiSurfer

right on Carsby.
I like it.
Treat them as the treat you.
I think we should all call them and pester them about this.
e.g:
'Hello Netfarce. How close am i to this bollox cap you have now.
If you reduce my bandwwidth to half i understand you will also reduce my subscription charge by half.'

Does anyone know anyone that write for a peper or anything like that? Maybe we could bring this to their attention.

Diabolus

I like it..
Anyone wanna call the Irish Times?
If im not mistaken they highlighted the whole IOL No Limits thing quite well and got it onto the radio too.

DaithiSurfer

Anyone in here any good at writing letters to papers.
My letters suck.
Too much bad language in them

Diabolus

I just saw the funniest thing in the world on Netfarce's site

Your Internet needs will probably change, too. And when they do, we’ll give you exactly what you need.

And we’ll do it with clarity, consistency, and operational excellence. Aren’t those the qualities of the perfect business partner?

Sorry but OMFG! That had me putting masking tape on my side's.

d0gb0y

Well so far i've complained to comreg & the advertising standards agency, i'm still looking for the director of consumer affairs website

muffen

I don't think I am going to cut the direct debit. I am still waiting for that call from their support. I am however going to do everything in my power that is legally possible, which means contacting comreg and writing an article posting it to every newspaper I can, as well as IrelandOffline.

No matter what Netsource do now, I will cancel it. I will pay them for the two months I have remaining. Even though I am really annoyed at them I will stick to being polite to their supportstaff, paying the money and logging everything they ever tell me (and posting it here, in this thread).

I posted it here so that you all can see how foul their business practises are. I want to warn other people so you all see that this is not targeting people who run filesharing applications 24/7, but people like me who thought that there was no DL cap, and used it, IMHO, resonably.

My hope is that people will stop signing up to their service after seeing their behaviour, and existing customer will change their ISP.

If we want to send them a message, we need to do it together. If you are about to sign up for ADSL, call them and tell them you will not use Netsource because of their behaviour. If you have Netsource as your ISP, call them and cancel the subscription, clearly (and politely) state the reasons.

As said so many times before, together we are strong.

DaithiSurfer

Should be:


Your Internet needs will probably change, too. And when they do, we’ll **** you so bad it hurts.
And we’ll do it with clarity, consistency, and operational excellence. Aren’t those the qualities of the perfect prick?

CyberGhost

for how many gigs pm did they cap you?

and capping heavy downloaders sucks! i hope they don't do it on ADSL

muffen

My DL stats are posted in the original post.

captainpat

D0gb0y,

odca.ie

crowbar

but what are you all going to do? go back to 56kbps modem? go to a capped service where you won't be able to download nearly as much as you do now?

d0gb0y

Thx CaptainPat

CyberGhost

i don't get it dude download cap is how much you download in a month period how much data GB, i asked them about RADSL and they said that speed varies there, it's never full speed, they said that ADSL will have full speed and 24/1 CR, so i'm going to install them because there is no other service available here but eircom which is capped by download limits and is the same price, i don't care about pings all i want is download, NC said they guarantee download speeds on ADSL

thats it

Diabolus

They do but if u dl too much they will limit ur dl speeds to 22k.
Dont be a fool

muffen

I agree that they way I am using the term download cap is not how Eircom uses it. In my opinion, if you get restrictions placed on you due to an excess amount of downloaded data (in this case on a subscription that is supposedly cap-free), thats a DL cap. That is how I am using the term. I really don't want to get into a discussion on the usage of the term download cap, as it's completly besides the point.

What is relevant, is that your internet will be statically restricted for two months if you end up in the top 10% of downloaders in one month. Call it what you want, it's not important.

You are actually going to sign up for netsource? After reading all the posts about them, and now being informed by them on what they are doing?

Well, your decision, all I can say is good luck.

Personally, I haven't decided on what to do, but there are other ISPs. Atleast the other ISPs are telling you what the DL cap is, on netsource it is relative to other people. You have no idea if you will be capped or not, but trust me, if you are, you will notice. The only thing I know is that I will not touch netsource ever again!

In regards to RADSL not being guaranteed speeds etc, it's again completly besides the point. They are not saying that it has anything to do with the load on their network. Instead, they are telling me that for the coming two months I am statically capped at 192Kbit/sec. The service I subscribed to was 512/128 no caps.

Finally, to advertise a service as 512/128, the ISP is required to hold 450Kbit/sec 80% of the time. I am holding 192Kbit 100% of the time.

Well, good luck with your new ISP, atleast you are making an informed decision. I was just dumped right in the middle of the ****pile with no warnings whatsoever.

CyberGhost

but wasn't everyone saying "oh Netsource is good" "Go with netsource"

i saw people downloading 90 gigs here, without problems(speeed)

and anyways i'm capped with 6 gigs with eircom, and i download the same i think they won't limit a thing, i'm gonna talk to them about it though, and i'm gonna record their guarantees and stuff, and then if the speed gets limited i won't pay a thing, and then court! i win, i get free broadband from life from them, easy as dell

muffen

but wasn't everyone saying "oh Netsource is good" "Go with netsource"

Yes they were...

... they changed without alerting their customers by email, phone or even a notice on their site. Please understand that this right here is the core of the issue; they changed with no warning whatsoever, and the service they are providing is remotly better that ISDN.

i'm gonna talk to them about it though, and i'm gonna record their guarantees and stuff, and then if the speed gets limited i won't pay a thing, and then court! i win, i get free broadband from life from them, easy as dell

Yes, that's exactly how easy it is; you vs Netsource - court will order them to give you free ADSL for life because of promises you wrote down on a piece of paper.

Again, you have the information, make up your own mind and do whatever you think is right. As it seems that you will do a lot of downloading, I can only say; enjoy your 192Kbit line.

MrPinK

CyberGhost, you should be fine on SME. It's not being throttled, and it's doubt it ever will be.

PrecariousNuts

They copied and pasted me the exact same reply when I asked:

The contention ratio for SOHO is 48:1. This is not yet been felt by the vast majority of customers, and most customers will never experience it's full impact. However the highest consumers of bandwidth will feel it first, as an adaption of their maximum available download rate to 192Kbit/s.

In your case you are experiencing this restriction now because your consumption is in the top 10% bandwith consumers, based on the consumption of all our customers. The restriction policy will be reviewed in two months.

d0gb0y

Best way to look at is on their site where the product information is listed you will see that the product has NO Download Limit. Yet myself & alot of other people have been had our downloads limited by Lagsource.

CyberGhost
With regards to joining Lagsource, I can only tell you what has happened me since I joined. From day 1 terrible pings(150+) now mots people think that pings are only important in gaming but they are very important to a lot of applications that allow people to work at home(Its also helpful to have a good ping if u want to get into hacking). They do a very quick install(but thats the kinda thing most "cowboys" do) they will cap your bandwidth without notice & without you even known how much the limit was for them to implement it. So after your 2 months of paying for a connection that is only 40% of what it should be you might go over the limit again. Anywayz up until this restricition was put on my connection I found the service very good for downloading. As for dealing with them prepare to hear the words contention ratio & rate adaptive everytime you complain.

MrPinK

Originally posted by d0gb0y
Best way to look at is on their site where the product information is listed you will see that the product has NO Download Limit. Yet myself & alot of other people have been had our downloads limited by Lagsource.

Throttling is not the same as a download cap. One limits speed, the other limits traffic. Your speed has been limited, but there is still 'NO Download Limit'. There is nothing wrong with the wording of their claim.

d0gb0y

First I don't like the word throttling I think restriction is better & has more meaning to what has happened. No download limits to me means that I can download as much as I want with my 512k connection but there is a limit to what I can download with 512k connection. I have been restricted to 164k so I have been severly limited to what I can download. I agree it really dosen't fall under the word cap but it is a limit on downloads which their website says that I should have No Download Limits. Btw do you have lagsource MrPink?

Dustaz

Originally posted by CyberGhost
i don't get it dude download cap is how much you download in a month period how much data GB,

Netsource are not capping you, they are Throttling you. Theres a difference.

i asked them about RADSL and they said that speed varies there, it's never full speed, they said that ADSL will have full speed and 24/1 CR, so i'm going to install them

That is a blatant lie. RADSL will adapt its rate if you are too far from the exchange to a lower limit of 256k. If you are close to the exchange on an RADSL service there is NO reason why you shouldnt get 512k speeds. If you qualify for their ADSL service then you are close enough to get 512k speeds.

MrPinK

First I don't like the word throttling I think restriction is better & has more meaning to what has happened. No download limits to me means that I can download as much as I want with my 512k connection but there is a limit to what I can download with 512k connection. I have been restricted to 164k so I have been severly limited to what I can download. I agree it really dosen't fall under the word cap but it is a limit on downloads which their website says that I should have No Download Limits. Btw do you have lagsource MrPink?

You're saying that your downloads are limited because of your speed, but that is true of absolutely any connection. Technically, there's a 160gig download limit on all 512k connections, so if you apply that arguement then absolute no service anywhere can say no download limit.

I do have lagsource (that name is actually starting to grow on me ), and I'm one of the supposably 90% of their customers that is still getting their full speed. I sympathise with the ppl who got 'restricted', I don't like the way it was done, but I'm not against it in theory. 48:1 contention just can't support really heavy users. This has been proven in other countries. The users were given the choice of accepting speed restrictions, paying extra for a less contented service, or getting kicked off. Netsource should have known better and started off with an official policy on the matter, but they didn't. There's not much they can do about that now. I'd say your only options are to either ring them up and get them to lift the restrictions by promising to d/l less, or leave them and take your money elsewhere and live with a 5gig cap. It's unfortune that we live in a country where the only decent DSL packages cost over €100 pm, but hopefully things will be better in the future.

DeVore

48:1 contention just can't support really heavy users.

I hate to say I told you so.




























I told you so













I hate myself

DeV.

MrPinK

Originally posted by DeVore
I hate to say I told you so.

You should have told netsource tho

And regards writing to the Irish Times about this whole fiasco, they'll most likely say "Netsource? Who the **** are they?" Comreg are prolly the only ppl who'll want to hear about it.

ixoy

Hey if I got throttled can I blame you guys? I just signed up a couple of weeks ago based on the word of mouth that it's great for d/ling, if not for pings. Oh boy

muffen

Just faxed them my cancellation. Next step, contact comreg. Hopefully they can do something.

I can add that after the phoneconversation I had with them, it seems unlikely that it would improve at all before two months, so don't hold you breath. If you're restricted, enjoy your new 192Kbit line, without a DL cap!

I can add that until my line is cancelled, I will download as much as I can. If they want 60 days cancellation period, I will download 100gigs (theoratical maximum is 112gigs).

I don't care what I download, I was planing on downloading a few linuxinstallations, as well as sharing my drive on Kazaa and Direct Connect.
Not the best way to protest maybe, but I feel like I've been screwed in my arse pretty bad

d0gb0y

I've cancelled the service aswell I was going to anyway even before they restricted my bandwidth it just made me cancel it sooner. I'm one of the lucky people who live in a wireless hotspot so i'm hoping to give IBB a shot if the pings stay the way they have been. I had Irishwisp before & was not impressed with the service(it was great for downloading though). I would go for Esat business but unfortunately disabilty benifit dosen't pay enough to feed me & pay for that connection

longword

Originally posted by muffen
I sent an email to their support, you can see it below (with personal information removed).

This is their reply to my question on why I can no longer livestream shoutcast, why I can't play UT2003 (150 - 250 in ping) and why I cannot DL in more than 22K/sec.

Beyond throttling/capping, tell us what is your preferred solution to providing a decent service for all customers on a 48:1 service in the face of those who seek to take a backup of the internet?

I'm not suggesting that you abused the service. I probably downloaded as much as you last month, though on I-Stream Multi which is an equivalent of 12:1 contention. I agree that Netsource were either evil or stupid to offer an uncapped service then turn around later and not-announce this (I still see nothing on their site about it), after they've gone and done it.

But a means has to be found to fairly share the service between customers on the contended line.

d0gb0y

I think a fair way for them to have done this is to send a letter + email to everyone on the service informing everyone of the problems they are facing with there inability to maintain the current rate of service. They then should have provided 2 or 3 solutions ie a set cap, a cap & when cap is reached throttling is introduced, the option to upgrade to their SME product & the option to leave them. I think they would have had a lot of sympathy & cooperation from at least some of there users for doing this. I know myself that if they had done it this way I would have upgraded to their SME product. As it stands i've already cancelled & complained about this unfair restriction to a number of goverment departments(not that it will do any good). I will also be anti lagsource now & as far as i'm concerned they are up there with Eircon.

muffen

Beyond throttling/capping, tell us what is your preferred solution to providing a decent service for all customers on a 48:1 service in the face of those who seek to take a backup of the internet?

I really don't care what the solution is, and to be honest, it's not my decision. It is Netcraps decision, and IMHO they made a bad choice.
All I wanted was to KNOW about it before-hand!

The best solution would have been to set a cap, after which you start throttling. Giving me a 192Kbit line for 2 months is unfair no matter how you look at it, especially when it is based on usage from one month.

Basically, I agree with DogBoy. If they would have told me, I might have upgraded. One thing is for sure, I would have downloaded less if there was a cap in effect. As I said before, the core of the issue is the lack of information. What did they think people would do, keep paying and be happy?

Repli

Originally posted by CyberGhost
and anyways i'm capped with 6 gigs with eircom

\

Have eircom changed their package? I thought it was 4gb/month
Anyway I wonder will esatBT and eircom start doing this with their uncapped services.... hmm

longword

Originally posted by Repli
Have eircom changed their package? I thought it was 4gb/month

Eircom changed the caps on existing products soon after the introduction of their RADSL service - which still has a 4GB "download allowance" as they like to call it. iStream Solo went from 4GB to 6GB while Multi went from 6GB to 10GB. Enhanced remains unlimited.

MrPinK

Originally posted by Repli
Anyway I wonder will esatBT and eircom start doing this with their uncapped services.... hmm

I doubt it. The expensive packages have much better contention and have more bandwidth alloted to them. They're designed to handle to heavy users.

Dr Bolouswki

this is making me sick...

I've been waiting and waiting for an uncapped pakage to be available at a reasonable price - netscourge were who I was gonna go for until their sales guy tried to con me into signing up before they could test my line on the grounds that it would give them leverage with eircon to push my line through (whatever that means)...

I need a connection that I can share and already have an RJ45 ADSL modem...

Is IOL worth it? To be honest I don't think I'll be downloading a whole lot of stuff - but as I'll be sharing the connection with 2 other folks (both big into music and neither ever having had fast access before) I don't want to have to get into paying a subsidy on downloads and trying to work out who downloaded what. Is there software that can set download limits for the 3 users? Can I run this software without having a server constantly on?

I know I'm a bit off topic - Mods - feel free to move this as the start of a new thread...

gsand

this is an absolute disgrace and if something is not done im cancelling immediatley-im certain this is a breach of contract in sum way and im definetly calling support in the morning and having my lawyer look over the terms and conditions.esat still do an uncapped connection for 90euro a month i think.

d0gb0y

I think you have a limited number of options, since there are 3 people sharing the connection maybe the more expensive products from Lagsource, Eircon or E**** might be a good idea. there does not seem to be many if any complaints about these products so far.
Can you get wireless?
Check the IBB threads if you can as from what i've read there service is quite good & I think I will be going with them as soon as I get out of the Lagsource contract.
There really isn't much else available after these 4 but be careful with IOL & Eircon capped products because if you do go over the cap they might not charge you for it now but they might in a year or so. Also check the sticky threads on the top of this section of the forum.

I'm not sure about software to limit your downloading but there is software available to monitor your downloads.

d0gb0y

gsand

The Esat Business connection is only available in very small number(40 I think) of exchanges around the country, I had a map of the exchanges but I can't find it.

²°°³webkev²°°³

Originally posted by Killah_B
Is there software that can set download limits for the 3 users?

not sure if its what your looking for.. but there is a trial version of Netlimiter available which is pretty good..

castie

Originally posted by gsand
this is an absolute disgrace and if something is not done im cancelling immediatley-im certain this is a breach of contract in sum way and im definetly calling support in the morning and having my lawyer look over the terms and conditions.esat still do an uncapped connection for 90euro a month i think.

they have a few words in your contract i bet as do esat that they do not guarantee speeds and also they can change there packages without notice, u signed it hope u actually read it first

muffen

Just checked the contract, and they have the following text at bulletpoint 10:

"NETSOURCE reserve the right to change service without prior notice."

The question is though, did they change the service? I mean, on their website it still says 512/128. I'm actually wondering how well this would hold up in court. Right now, they are discriminating against certain users, seems to me that it's different than changing the service.
On the other hand, I guess that the contract is between me and netsource, and I agreed that they could change my service without notice.

Difficult one, and I wouldn't want to be the one that tries it in court.

BTW, you capped people out there, you are downloading now, right?
You're capped for two months no matter what you do, might aswell download the 112Gigs you can get in the 2 months you are forced to keep it.

El_MUERkO

Thats a bunch of arse!

I hope the dont cap me.

I'd say I've downloaded about 12 gigs a month all told but if they cap me I swear I'll download 112 gigs a month for the two months.

rymus

well... your service has been changed, as has the service of many others. That relates to the contract that you signed, meaning your service could be changed at any time without prior notice.

It'd definately stand up in court, people don't employ solicitors to draw up these things because theyre too lazy to do it themselves.


Whats life like on the SME package? I'm going to go out on a limb and presume they arent going to be as stupid as to throttle anything but SOHO users, I'm sure they dont want to and cant afford to lose business users.