Aston Villa - Liverpool

mike65

*sigh*

How dull and witless can Pool get? Part of me was hoping for a
thrashing by Villa as it would bring the mis-rule of Houllier a few steps closer. In the event they were as anemic in front of goal as
Liverpool....

Mike.

smuckers

Villa were far more adventurous in first half carved Pool open and should have scored, Murphy had a great chance for the reds and so did Kewell (who didn't look interested one bit) Pool came into late on albeit hoof the ball forward they'll have to improve for Spurs.

Ronan|Raven

I was listening to bits of commentary on IRC in a liverpool channel, we were rubbish once again. No cutting edge what so ever, Spurs on wednesday should prove to be a tricky game as well especially with the way we are playing.

Dcully

Speaking of the Spurs game ,i hope Redknapp has another stormer against us on wednesday as he did yesterday against Leeds [he was outstanding],purely just to show Houllier how much of a muppet he was to get rid of him
Me wonders will i regret yet again this year paying for Sky Sports to follow the pool ? ,certainly seems that way

smemon

boring boring liverpool continue to get even worse.

kewell was rubbish as i think he is on most occasions, even when he was in a leeds shirt. far too inconsistent, he has about 5 good games a season.

liverpool had 4 strikers starting, 4!! that means 2 had to play out of position. is houllier an eejit or what?? gerrard is a scumbag, diving in with 2 feet on 3 occasions. fa should charge him.

carragher played well. that was it. villa were all over them, by far the better side. get houllier out. im a man u fan but more importantly, im a football fan, he ruins it.

kaimera

ffs...maybe Houllier is loosing the plot.

Keegan from City to the Pool perhaps?

jesus_thats_gre

boring boring liverpool continue to get even worse.

In your opinion, do Liverpool ever do anything good?

All you ever do is criticise, if Liverpool annoy you so much, dont post on any thread about them.

G

Good football by Villa standards but they were lacking in movement when attacking. Angel's free kick off the upright... inches away from a screamer

celticfc

I thaught Soronsen was great.

smemon

no, i dont see how anyone can praise houllier for ruining the club. he doesnt know what he's at and keeps playing half the team out of position.

defensive mentality wins nothing over a season. i think houllier was born in germany. has that tactical '8 at the back' approach. i wouldnt go to see liverpool if u paid me.

jesus_thats_gre

I feel Liverpool had a fairly positive first half. I think it is a shame that people cannot give Villa credit where credit is due, they played a good game in the second half. As oppossed to just saying Liverpool were poor.

The Muppet

liverpool were poor again. Had they being playing a side with a decent finisher except Mr. (one goal a season) Angel they would have conceded goals . Why was Dublin not on from the start he wouls surly have score one of the 3 headed oppertunities Angel missed in the first 15 minutes.
Kewell didnt look the bargain everyone thought he was, I say GH could be eligable for a part refund on todays performance:D

IMO keweeel missed his open goal becaus he was playing out of position again and a right footer would most likely have scored. I noticed after his miss he swapped position with diouf but the miss probably played on his mind leading to a very poor performance on his part.

Owen looked like he was lacking Pace for some strange reason,
He was overtaken by the defence a couple of times. Much empasis was [placed on the absence of Steven (dont tackle me or ill stamp on you foot )Gerrard for last week performance. He hadnt a bad match today but quite a few of his passes didnt find the man and his lohg shhoting left a lot to be desired. On a plus side liverpool did try to play attacking football in the begining but
I would expect the better teams to punish them severly if the play like today for the season and they will not improve on last years position.

Thanx 4 The Fish

How do you consistently fail to miss the good in a game. It is a shame you are such a die hard Man Utd fan and that you will never be a football fan.

I do have to wonder did you see the game at all?? Did you see any of the shots liverpool had on goal ?? They had more on target than Villa and why must you say that Villa were poor on the attack, Dudek had an excellent game today and more than once saved it for the pool. This was not down to poor finishing but great goalkeeping. Liverpool were shooting at, IMHO one of the best keepers in the league in the form of Sorenson, he was also on form today and made some very good saves. Diouf had a good game and contributed alot, Garrett Barry was alright, Angel struck a great free kick and was unluck it did not go in.

A tale of two Keepers best describes this game I think. Liverpool have a bit of work to do.

I do think L'pool will improve on last year's position and I think that Newcastle will be quite happy BTW if they kept last years position.

AthAnRi

I feel Liverpool had a fairly positive first half. I think it is a shame that people cannot give Villa credit where credit is due, they played a good game in the second half. As oppossed to just saying Liverpool were poor

The statistics are, after 2 league games Liverpool have 1 point. This may not be as bad as it looks since they have played Chelsea. However Statistics also show that in the Past these two fixtures were nearly always 6 points for the pool. This indicates that either the Chelsea and Villa have taken a step forwards or Liverpool have taken a step backwards. I do think that Chelsea have improved but I don't think Villa have improved drastically. Either way it means that the best Liverpool can have done is to take a step sideways.

So instead of saying that Liverpool were poor, I'm going to say that Chelsea and Villa were good. I am more than happy as a Man Utd fan to cloud the Judgement of pool supporters. Keep GH on he is an excellent manager. Looks like Kewell was right. United are a team on the down. Liverpool are on the up. Roll on Spurs on Wed Night

After only 2 games the League already has a familiar look about the top 3. Its going to be a great season.

jesus_thats_gre

I a agree, give credit where credit is due. Mind you, Liverpool seem to be very rusty, they are giving the ball away very easily and seem to be a bit flat footed.

The Muppet

How do you consistently fail to miss the good in a game. It is a shame you are such a die hard Man Utd fan and that you will never be a football fan.

I am saying it as i see it. Expressing MY opinion on the game the same as everyone else. Look at my comments made earlier in the thread on the arsenal game and you will see that i am indeed a fotball fan and enjoy a good game and am will to praise where it is merited..

Compare the performance of Arsenal with Liverpool today and you will see how far off the mark liverpool are.
I,m sorry if my opinion upsets you so much but if you are waiting for me to post praise for a tem that blatently dont deserve it you will have a long wait. Even some of the liverpool supporters have posted similar posts to mine. I suggest you take off those red tinted glasses and face the reality of how badly liverpool are playing ath the moment.


BTW i didnt say villa were poor on the attack in facti think they were excellent in attack but they did lack finishing which is the point i made initally. i Believe Mr Angel scored 1 goal last season which i think is evidence enought to back up my point about poor finishing.


Mike 65 made the sam point in his first post why did you not attack him i wonder? Leave off with your petty vendetta i,m not interested. Ok


]

smemon

arsenal and manu are on a different planet to liverpool. villa are a poor side, lets face it. o' leary will steady them up but come on, their a 10th to 15th side. they played well though but thats because they were forced to attack as liverpool held back.

middlesboro are a mid-table side too and arsenal hammered them. thats the difference. manu did it to bolton too. liverpool cannot, i repeat CANNOT hammer ANYONE by 3-4 clear goals. why didnt they buy duff? too stingy and didnt want to risk big money. duff would have change liverpool.

diouf cleared a shot off the line, that sums them up, a forward back on his own goal-line.

jesus_thats_gre

diouf cleared a shot off the line, that sums them up, a forward back on his own goal-line.

So now we are criticising Liverpool because they have a winger that comes back to defend? They deserve to be criticised, but keep it real will you.

Big Ears

i didnt see the game but i think people should reserve judjement on teams until they have played 4-5 games.Although i think it could be time for houlier to get the sack if they arent in the top 3 around christmas.

celticfc

Originally posted by Big Ears
Although i think it could be time for houlier to get the sack if they arent in the top 3 around christmas.

Liverpool haven't got much of a chance of being in the top 3 by christmas.

GuanYin

I watched it and was critical of liverpool at the time, but on reflection the past two league games have seen them play with a more attacking mentality than I remember last season. I can't see how anyone who watched the match can say they weren't attacking today.

However, they were also abysmal. Midfield was a shambles and they made a very ordinary villa side look very good. Gerrard (marct! ) should have been sent off never mind booked and I cannot for the life of me understand how the FA can't charge him after charging Campbell (two footed tackles are violent and dangerous conduct under FA rules, it doesn't matter if he connects or not). Besides that he had a very average game.

Kewell looked totally disinterested and Owen too for that matter. Why oh why Baros was on the bench over Heskey continues to defy all logic.

Dudek, Carragher and at times Diouf were positives but don't be fooled, Liverpool deserved nothing from this game and I see the titles slipping farther and farther away as long as GH remains in control. The end of the season may be too long, as I see Owen and Gerrard leaving if the fail to finished at least 4th (and I wouldn't be optimistic).

Space Coyote

According to GH, "Our season is now up and running".

I watched the Villa game today. As a diehard Pool fan it hurts me deeply to watch such an atrocious display of football AGAIN. The Chelsea game was just as bad a display. We were truely abissmal going forward today. We couldn't string more than 2 or 3 passes together without giving it away or knocking it way back to the keeper. Yes we did have a few chances where we could/should have scored, but we could have been 3-0 down at half time if it wasn't for Dudek. He was class, thank christ. Houllier does not know what he is doing. There is no manager in Europe that would think the wide-right position is Harry Kewell's best position, but GH continues to throw him out there. HK was pure muck today, he didn't look one bit interested in the game. Why? Because he was playing out of position AGAIN. If Houllier doesn't wake up pretty quick we'll be lucky to get a UEFA Cup spot this season ...

Fúck me I'm well pi$$ed off :mad:

[edit] I agree that Villa played very well, and probably deserved to win the game. O'Leary has them passing the ball very well now, and he's blooded a few of the youngsters which is good to see. Whittingham looks a very good prospect.[/edit]

The Muppet

Sorry Sykeirl but you are liable to be flamed for expressing such opinions here . If you can not express positive comments on Liverpool fc some of the users here will accuse you of having an agenda. As your post make basically the same point as mine i expect you to be accused of not being a football fan at all and not actually seeing the game you are posting on.

Or maybe that just happens to me i await Thanx for the fish or 2 sheds jackson or whatevery they are calling themself today to reply to your post as he did to mine.

Rant over so Back to the football I agree fully with your post. If Villa had a player that could finish today Liverpool would have been well beaten. was there a reason for Having Dublin on the bench or is he really behing angel in the pecking order.
Villa were quite good today and will improve on last seasons position if they can sort out their finishing.

Ps space coyote I can see you getting it too. the reason HK is playing on the right is because that is where he wants to Play;)

mike65

Steven Gerrard has let it be known that he expects CL footie next season - ie he's off if Liverpool finnish out side top 4. So is that a bluff (I dont think so) and will the Liverpool board take his views on board even as they publicly ignore them?

Mike.

GuanYin

Originally posted by The Muppet
Sorry Sykeirl but you are liable to be flamed for expressing such opinions here . If you can not express positive comments on Liverpool fc some of the users here will accuse you of having an agenda. As your post make basically the same point as mine i expect you to be accused of not being a football fan at all and not actually seeing the game you are posting on.

Or maybe that just happens to me i await Thanx for the fish or 2 sheds jackson or whatevery they are calling themself today to reply to your post as he did to mine.

Generally it could be you get flamed because you try incite people.
It could be that you slag off the club half the time without any constructive criticism or insight and push the "greatness of your own club no matter how off topic it is, at every opportunity. It could also be that some people construed you as "behaving like a total gimp" in 90% of your posts.

But I don't really know. These are just hypotheticals.

jesus_thats_gre

I would agree. Constructive criticism is welcome.

CivilServant

In response to the comment that kewell is crap and liverpool should of bought duff instead. I would say that anyone that goes to liverpool now will play like muck savages. Cristiano Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, or Ronaldo himself couldn't change liverpool's fortunes. Heck even if liverpool somehow managed to get van nistelrooy it wouldn't do us any good.

The style of football harks back to jack charlton era. That's not what competing in the premiership is about, grand if you're a mid table team or looking for survival but no one is going to win the premiership like that.

Fact of the matter is Houllier likes to play like that, he's been playing it consistently for the past 3 years. No one is going to change his mind. He's had his chances and now it's time for a change either in tactics (not going to happen) or management. If the board at liverpool really want to win the premiership they're going to have to cut their losses and sack Houllier now before he wastes more time and points.

jesus_thats_gre

I am beginning to agree

GuanYin

Originally posted by Thanx 4 The Fish
I do have to wonder did you see the game at all?? Did you see any of the shots liverpool had on goal ?? They had more on target than Villa and why must you say that Villa were poor on the attack, Dudek had an excellent game today and more than once saved it for the pool. This was not down to poor finishing but great goalkeeping. Liverpool were shooting at, IMHO one of the best keepers in the league in the form of Sorenson, he was also on form today and made some very good saves. Diouf had a good game and contributed alot, Garrett Barry was alright, Angel struck a great free kick and was unluck it did not go in.

<snip>

I do think L'pool will improve on last year's position and I think that Newcastle will be quite happy BTW if they kept last years position.

To keep the (eponymous) muppet happy, I'll respond to this with my opinion.

Villa played well today by the standards they set last season (and indeed last week). They passed the ball very well and broke well. Their defending was disciplined and despite the Mellberg, Sorenson spat (twice) they did all the simple things right. O'Leary is an underated manager (thank you p.pete) and has made a good start.

That said, they are still a very ordinary team. the Liverpool midfield had far more quality and considering they were missing maybe two players from their ideal 11, they allowed Villa too much space in midfield, let them pass the ball too easily, were second best in every challenge and lost nearly every 50-50 ball.

Defensively, Carragher aside, they were poor. O'Leary, now finished with teaching the simple things needs to teach his team how to shoot. Villa looked scared to shoot in front of goal and over passed or over played the ball til the chance was gone. Villa got in behind Liverpool too often and too easily and I hope for liverpools sake Thompson and GH read the riot act to the normally solid 'pool defence.

When Villa did get a shot in Dudek was excellent, but the shots on goal and the shots on target count does not reflect the attacking superiority that villa enjoyed (the same way that the stats lie about how much 'pool attacked in the 2nd half vs. Chelsea), mainly because they didn't take the opportunity to shoot most of the time.

Djiouf showed sparks of what he is capable and tracked back well.
Kewell is so far has been a major disappointment. The one spark I saw of him that resembled the skills he showed in Leeds resulted in a cross so over hit that Gerrard and Carragher would have been proud. Heskey was Heskey, the Villa support booed when he was taken off...'nuff said.

Now, all this in itself isn't the end of the world, its only two games in and anything can happen. Newcastle have started slowly themselves. Worryingly for everyone else Arsenal and Man Utd, look like business as usual and worringly for Liverpool..so do they.

None of the small problems like midfield posession, simple clever options when passing and varying attack strategies look to have been solved and apart from getting forward more, (only when Djiouf is on mind you) they have not improved in their overall play.
Bookies are going to make GH a firm fave for "promotion" at mersyside unless he changes things quickly. I doubt even a 1-0 win today would have hidden the problems at anfield right now.

AthAnRi

Posted by sykeirl
Kewell is so far has been a major disappointment

I agree with every thing youve said except the above statement. It is a little unfair to criticise Kewell after just 2 games. Liverpools style of play does not suit the guy. Besides he is been played totally out of position. Kewell is one of the best left sided midfielders in the world. So far Liverpool have played him on the right and in the centre. Also he was a slight doubt before the game so maybe he isn't fully fit. If rested and utilised correctly Liverpool will benefit greatly from the Wizard of Oz.

GuanYin

You are right. I did say "so far" so I really only took the two games into account.

That said, today he did an awful lot of simple things wrong, gave the ball away too easily and picked the wrong pass alot. His wizardry wasn't even hinted at. I agree great things may come, Duff hasn't exactly set Stamford on fire yet either but Kewell looked disinterested today (as someone else said).

p.pete

What I saw yesterday was a brilliant game of football, and before that I watched the Liverpool match. I was delighted to get the draw because we were crap.

CL football or no CL football, if Gerard keeps playing like that we should sell him before he even thinks of looking for his transfer. I don't really care about the fact that he deserved to be sent off (for the same reason Utd fans wouldn't see Keane sold or Arsenal Viera for accumulating red cards), he played no better than Cheyrou or Biscan last week.

I'm not sure of my opinion on HK yet. I wouldn't say disinterested, possibly trying too hard to do something amazing and proove himself and then loosing the ball immediately when there was a simple option. Perhaps it was slightly more obvious against Chelsea - there was opportunities to set Owen up but he seemed more interested in getting his own first goal.

This whole business of us playing crap and then having GH point to the "shots on goal" statistic is a nonsence. I only really realised for the first time yesterday though. Teams like Arsenal and ManU build great chances and then a lot of their shots are taken from really good positions, so they need as many shots and produce more goals. Liverpool get the ball most of the way up the pitch and then take a shot, shot counter goes up, pat on the back.

3 positive things
1) we are only a point behind Newcastle, Yipee.
2) as someone else pointed out, despite playing crap we do seem to be attacking more. Djiouf seems to be doing a lot more of the things that we were expecting and Kewell despite playing crap will produce something eventually (in much the same way as Duff at Chelsea, we all know both players are good - just waiting to see it on the pitch).
3) Carragher is like a new man - getting forward, playing passes on the ground (thought I'd never see the day) and still defending well.

p.pete

LOL, just read an article describing Mellborg as Liverpools best player by a long long way:D

The Muppet

To keep the (eponymous) muppet happy, I'll respond to this with my opinion.

Not everyone gets it sykeirl. AS you posted basically the same points as I did I assume you too were trying to incite.

GuanYin

Not everyone gets what?

Maybe they just don't like you. Get over it.

The Muppet

Sorry I was credititing you with more intelligence than i should have. You should refrain from using use big words if you dont really understand them.:D

GuanYin

Originally posted by The Muppet
Sorry I was credititing you with more intelligence than i should have. You should refrain from using use big words if you dont really understand them.:D

I know what eponymous means, but how do you know that not everyone understands it? Mind reader are we?

Are you claiming the monopoly on being an expert on the english lanuage aswell as football?

Thanx 4 The Fish

Well I am sure that "credititing" you with more intelligence than they should is something that not too many people have been accused of.

The Muppet

Sykeirl you must be a bit slow as I had to spell it out for you .Because its Monday morning i will give you the benefit of the doubt.


here we go again fish. If you want to continure making a fool of youself please leve me out of it.:D If you want to reply to the points i made in my post earlier i may reply to them otherwise I have no interest in conversing with you.

p.pete

I dislike The Muppet because of the team he supports. Other than that hardly any of his posts annoy me - it's a bit like shooting elephants in a barrel trying to criticise Liverpool but make damn sure when opportunity exists to return the compliment to manu fans, it will be done.

In terms of crediting people with inteligence / good use of English:

You should refrain from using use big words if you ...

that's just funny - figure out how the small words work first Muppet.

GuanYin

Originally posted by The Muppet

Sykeirl you must be a bit slow as I had to spell it out for you .Because its Monday morning i will give you the benefit of the doubt.


here we go again fish. If you want to continure making a fool of youself please leve me out of it.:D If you want to reply to the points i made in my post earlier i may reply to them otherwise I have no interest in conversing with you.

How did you spell it out? By commenting that not everyone got it? Were you expecting a fanfare reaction? Or did you think that I expected lots of people to comment on it? You see, that is why you get flamed, because you try annoy people and you try get attention (ie.. your reply to my post). I'm sure it makes you feel big, but its not clever. Now hush before you make yourself seem an even bigger twat. Welcome to "ignore".

(apologies for the off thread comments, I'll delete these posts as required).

p.pete

Originally posted by sykeirl
(apologies for the off thread comments, I'll delete these posts as required).

Not at all - I love it when conversations about how crap Liverpool are get misdirected:D

Thanx 4 The Fish

Originally posted by p.pete
Not at all - I love it when conversations about how crap Liverpool are get misdirected:D

Too true pete. Now to get back to winning ways.

The Muppet

I dislike The Muppet because of the team he supports. Other than that hardly any of his posts annoy me - it's a bit like shooting elephants in a barrel trying to criticise Liverpool but make damn sure when opportunity exists to return the compliment to manu fans, it will be done.

Thank you pete Its a pity some of the others appear to have no sense of humour and can not take my posts in the light hearted manner they are intended.

As For you returning the compliment I would expect nothing less from a true liverpool supporter and look forward to replying in kind in the far distant future.:)

Thanks again

smemon

has houllier got a brain or what? he said kewell had a good game and got better as the game went on! thats the funniest thing ive ever heard.

then stevie gerrard was inteviewed, i quote 'the most important thing is a clean sheet'. its no wonder the cant attack with that mentality. then houllier shot himself in the arm by saying he started with 4 strikers and an offensive approach!

he played 2 strikers on the wings when he had wide players available.

GuanYin

Originally posted by smemon
then stevie gerrard was inteviewed, i quote 'the most important thing is a clean sheet'. its no wonder the cant attack with that mentality. then houllier shot himself in the arm by saying he started with 4 strikers and an offensive approach!

he played 2 strikers on the wings when he had wide players available.

What? That makes no sense? Thats Keegan talk that is. Defense (and where possible clean sheets) are every bit as important as attacking play.

Liverpool were quite offensive but just didn't convert any of their attacks into real clear cut chances (and wasted those they did).

As for four strikers? When was Kewell ever considered a striker? Certainly not at leeds. And Diouf? i didn't think he was a striker either, although I'm unsure about him.

TwoShedsJackson

I certainly found Liverpool very offensive yesterday

smemon

kewell and diouf aren't strikers?? they are strikers, houllier plays them out of position thats why they cant perform. kewell isnt a centre forward but i'd still call him a striker. he scored 15 goals last season and plays upfront for the aussi's.

the most important thing is to score goals. if u care more about clean sheets than scoring goals theres something wrong. villa were all over them, far the more attacking side and deserved to win.

lets just face it, liverpool are on the way down. houllier is a chess player, not a football manager.

GuanYin

I would be willing to wager that Liverpool won't even come close to "going down".

Kewell played on the left for most of his career at Leeds and plays behind the striker in a 4-4-1-1 or 4-3-1-2 formation for the australians (it was here that Kerr, by his own admission got the idea to play duff in the free role). Pires, Overmars, Giggs, Sharpe and even Graham Kavanagh have all scored 15 goals in a season for there clubs but I wouldn't call any of them strikers.


As for scoring goals being the most important thing? I disagree, if you can't defend properly you will never take pressure of yourselves long enough to score. Liverpool are one dimensional up front, its true, but they have not been defensive so far.

smuckers

I am shocked that Gerrard wasn't sent off it was a two footed lunge far worse than Geremis, but the FA will turn a blind eye when it comes to both Pool and Utd. :mad:

p.pete

Originally posted by smuckers
I am shocked that Gerrard wasn't sent off it was a two footed lunge far worse than Geremis, but the FA will turn a blind eye when it comes to both Pool and Utd. :mad:

The FA know what's good for them:D