Refused for wearing "trainers"

sovtek

Three of us tried to get into Viper Room other night at about 1:00. One of my friends was wearing trainers and the bouncer refused us citing that very reason.
I thought that pubs weren't allowed to refuse based on this criteria anymore.

hussey

Yeah since when did pubs ever obay laws??

but I wouldn't even look at those type of clubs with a pair of runners on !!

sovtek

Originally posted by hussey
Yeah since when did pubs ever obay laws??

but I wouldn't even look at those type of clubs with a pair of runners on !!

If people call them on it then they would come to follow laws more closely. Anyway it's some stupid logic (and stupid business practice) to refuse people based on their footwear.
I hardly wear anything but "trainers" except when I'm going to a special function.

SkepticOne

What law is it they are not obeying?

sovtek

Originally posted by SkepticOne
What law is it they are not obeying?

That's what I'm asking. I'd heard that they aren't allowed to refuse based on clothing unless they are a private club.

bloggs

I heard this debate on the radio a few weeks ago, where a guy wanted to get into a club while wearing a tracksuit. I don't wear tracksuits or runners, so it doesn't really apply to me, but why not just wear what they require?

bugler

I doubt very much if refusing someone on the basis of their clothing could be made illegal. What if someone shows up dressed in a bin-bag? Or a tramp wants to come in? The phrase "The management reserve the right to refuse admission" has to draw it's meaning from some standards being enforced. Granted being really drunk is one of the criteria that could/should see you being refused entry, but there's no way it should be the only one.

I don't agree with dress codes by the way, but I never go to a reasonably upmarket pub (or any niteclub) wearing runners. Some bouncers are tossers and it's best to reduce the possible grounds for being refused entry from the off.

sovtek

Originally posted by bloggs
I heard this debate on the radio a few weeks ago, where a guy wanted to get into a club while wearing a tracksuit. I don't wear tracksuits or runners, so it doesn't really apply to me, but why not just wear what they require?

Well for one it's not up to a pub to dictate what one should or should not wear as well as it makes no sense to refuse to do business with someone based upon what they wear.
When you throw in the equation an idiot bouncer you raise all sorts of issues.
I thought that pub was short for "public bar" as in open to the public.

Stark

I don't really agree with the trainers rule, there's not really much point to it. It seems as well in Cork that the nicer places like the savoy are the places that are cool about dress code (they seem to be going on the basis that nice atmosphere and good music will keep the scum out), whereas ****holes like Redz are totally anal about it.
In the case of tracksuits though, I think you should be shot for wearing a tracksuit clubbing or anywhere else other than the gym.

gollem_1975

(going out in Dublin city centre) for a while now that as a guy , wearing trainers and turning up at a club a 1am on a busy night all lead to a very good chance in being refused ( unless you are a regular .. ie: go there every week ) .
there is absolutely nothing illegal about a bouncer refusing someone because of their footwear. the police won't entertain any complaints due to R.O.A.R . in fact I was told by a policeman that they( doorstaff ) don't actually have to give you a reason as to why you are not getting in.

bonkey

Originally posted by gollem_1975
in fact I was told by a policeman that they( doorstaff ) don't actually have to give you a reason as to why you are not getting in.

Correct. However, if they choose to offer a reason, then it had better be a legal one.

Imagine if a bouncer turned away someone making an absolutely racial slur as the reason why they were being refused. Do you think the police would refuse to get involved on the grounds that "well, he may have called you a slanty-eyed gook, but he didn't actually have to offer you any reason, so you can still do nothing about it".

No, somehow I don't think so.

jc

sovtek

Originally posted by gollem_1975

there is absolutely nothing illegal about a bouncer refusing someone because of their footwear. the police won't entertain any complaints due to R.O.A.R .

Can I ask what a/is R.O.A.R?

gollem_1975

R.O.A.R. = right of admission reserved

sovtek

Originally posted by bugler


I don't agree with dress codes by the way, but I never go to a reasonably upmarket pub (or any niteclub) wearing runners.

I wouldn't mind dress codes so much if they are equally enforced and posted. They are usually arbitrarily enforced based on whatever reason the idiot at the door decides. This often coincides with how quickly after closing time he/she wants to go home.
Anyway, when its late there are very few choices on where to drink. I often work late but I'm not in the "hospitality" industry.

Meh

Originally posted by sovtek
Can I ask what a/is R.O.A.R?

Right Of Admission Reserved?

They can refuse you for whatever reason they like, as long as it isn't one of these nine reasons (and there are even exceptions to some of those reasons).

bloggs

I have given up on niteclubs, bouncers giving you hassle when you aren't drunk, and letting in people who can't even stand. Then when you are inside, you spend the whole nite queueing for the bar, only to have some halfwit pi** on you (didn't happen to me, but hear of a girl it happened to), then when you get to the bar you are ripped off for 5 euro a pint. Then queue for a taxi, to be ripped off again.

Ok it's not alway that bad, but i prefer a few drinks in the house with my g/f and friends

sovtek

Originally posted by gollem_1975
(going out in Dublin city centre) for a while now that as a guy , wearing trainers and turning up at a club a 1am on a busy night all lead to a very good chance in being refused ( unless you are a regular .. ie: go there every week ) .

I wouldn't have went there unless I had a choice. I go out late because I work late.
It was a new bouncer and I go there about every other week or so.
It wasn't busy .

there is absolutely nothing illegal about a bouncer refusing someone because of their footwear. the police won't entertain any complaints due to R.O.A.R . in fact I was told by a policeman that they( doorstaff ) don't actually have to give you a reason as to why you are not getting in. [/B]

That may be true but I know that can't refuse anyone. There is the Equality Act of 2000 (I can't seem to find the actual Act though) that prohibits the refusal of goods/services based on certain criteria.
I know a certain pub was sued a few
years ago for not serving some under 23's.
I wouldn't always rely on police to translate the law, unless its something they deal with on a regular basis, they often don't know it themselves. They also tend to have a bias in favor of bouncers.

seamus

Originally posted by sovtek
Well for one it's not up to a pub to dictate what one should or should not wear as well as it makes no sense to refuse to do business with someone based upon what they wear.

A pub can choose to do business with whomever they please, so long as they're not being discriminatory. Dress codes tend to be based on the fairly reliable idea that 90% of people dressed like scumbags, are scumbags, and not worth the hassle they may cause. If someone in front of me arrived at a club dressed in a tracksuit I'd laugh at him.

Clubs also like to think that if they keep their clientele respectable and well-dressed, then they get the respectable and well-dressed clientele to come to their club and can charge more. Which is crap obviously.

There's no good reason for refusing people with normal runners (ie not white, & clean & respectable) except as a power trip for the bouncers. If a club refuses me because of runners, I refuse to go near there again. Only happened once though, in Bob's.

Imposter

...but at least it's good to know that such fine upstanding pillars of the community (bouncers and publicans) who are so in touch with everything are just acting in your own best interests by being the fashion police! After all who would want to suffer the embarassment of being in a place in a pair of 'trainers'.

Does anyone know why runners are picked on? Would I get into these places in flip-flops, sandals, golf shoes (without the spikes) or barefoot?

sovtek

Originally posted by Imposter
Would I get into these places in flip-flops, sandals, golf shoes (without the spikes) or barefoot?

The odds go up if you happen to be female. Hmmmm isn't that "discrimination"?

Sleipnir

Sinnot's by Stephen's green there had a crazy rule, dunno if they still have it but you couldn't get in wearing runners after 21:00.
Turn up in runners at 20:55, no problem. Turn up at 2101 with runners;
"Sorry bud, no runners after 9"
Whether or not those who had gotten in there before 9 wearing runners were asked to remove them, I cannot tell.......

Stark

The odds go up if you happen to be female. Hmmmm isn't that "discrimination"?

If only there were more gay bouncers.

bloggs

Originally posted by Kananga
Sinnot's by Stephen's green there had a crazy rule, dunno if they still have it but you couldn't get in wearing runners after 21:00.
Turn up in runners at 20:55, no problem. Turn up at 2101 with runners;
"Sorry bud, no runners after 9"
Whether or not those who had gotten in there before 9 wearing runners were asked to remove them, I cannot tell.......

What if you are queuing at 8.55, but don't reach the bouncher 9.01

Sleipnir

well we all know that bouncers are great listeners when someone has woes. I'm sure if you explained how you were waiting to get in for a few minutes, they'd give you an understanding smile, and usher you down the steps with a hearty laugh.

Stark

about as heartily as I laughed there I'd say

sovtek

Originally posted by Meh
Right Of Admission Reserved?

They can refuse you for whatever reason they like, as long as it isn't one of these nine reasons (and there are even exceptions to some of those reasons).

I thought that is why they stopped being able to refuse because of dress. That was what the whole trainer thing was supposed to weed out.
How else are you going to know a "travelling person" unless by dress or how they speak?

sovtek

Originally posted by Kananga
well we all know that bouncers are great listeners when someone has woes. I'm sure if you explained how you were waiting to get in for a few minutes, they'd give you an understanding smile, and usher you down the steps with a hearty laugh.

I'd love for a bouncer to "usher me down the steps" because I decided to question his door policy. That's the day I'd retire early.

bloggs

Sorta side issue, but i know a guy and his friends who was at a lap dancing club, and there was an middleaged woman outside who ushered them in. They got one dance and a few drinks, when they got the bill they discoverd the usher had charged them 100 quid way over the odds. They refused as they didn't have the extra money, so they were frog marched to a ATM, from which they did a runner. They said that on the way out there was a notice (size of a stamp) saying that you had to pay for the usher if you wished to have her bring you down.

Cabaal

To be honest there not breaking any laws, places can have a dress code.

So you’re telling me you’ll get pissed off and throw a fit if a Restaurant refuses you because you’re wearing jeans, runners and a t-shirt?

They can do it if they want to

Alot of nightclubs have a fav line “dress up to get down"

Basically that covers them,

Cabaal

Originally posted by bloggs
They said that on the way out there was a notice (size of a stamp) saying that you had to pay for the usher if you wished to have her bring you down.

Ok this is somewhat related but a certain fast food shop in Kilkenny has a very small sign behind the counter syaing they charge you 3.50 if you stay in and sit and eat at the tables.

To Be honest they even charged me 3.50 one day for a take away.
The same fast food outlet in Waterford does not charge anything for eating in.

Apparently "They have all your money in there hands..."

Woden

I was refused entry to redz on saturday night as they said they where full, if they did that to get rid of me screw them, if they did it out of safety and the fact that they had reached there capacity i'd say fair play to them, i hate it when clubs crowd them in, i hung around for a couple of minutes while we decided where to go and they where refusing other people, there was the enavitable boys ringing there 'girlfriends' and calling them to the front door etc. going on.

sovtek

Originally posted by Cabaal To be honest there not breaking any laws, places can have a dress code.

I have no problem with a dress code if it's posted outside. Bouncers often come up with it on the spot though.

So you’re telling me you’ll get pissed off and throw a fit if a Restaurant refuses you because you’re wearing jeans, runners and a t-shirt?

Yes unless it's prominantly posted outside. I've never been refused into a restaurant.

They can do it if they want to

Possibly but I'm aware that bouncers stopped doing it several months ago alogether, in the city at least. I thought it was because of the Equality Act 2000. I've heard this from a few people but haven't found anything stating that specifically. It coincided with the whole "travelling community" debacle.
If they can legally do that...does it make it right? ...hell no IMO.

Hairy Homer

Here's a quote from the very worthy (if tediously dull) book 'No Logo' by the lovely Naomi Klein.

It's from a chap called Howard Schulz who is or was the CEO of Starbucks, the coffee house chain.

He says: 'The people who line up for Starbucks aren't just there for the coffee. It's the romance of the coffee experience, the feeling of warmth and community people get in Starbucks stores.'

Warmth and community huh? Do Starbucks chains have a dress code? Do they refuse you entry if you wear trainers? Do they have a pair heavies blocking every entrance enforcing arbitrary admissions policies?

I'll bet they don't, but then I don't really know because I've never been in a Starbucks. Do correct me, someone, if my supposition is wrong.

The Vinters Association really want to get their act together and realise, like Mr Schultz, that most people don't really come into their premises for the beer or the alcopops. It's the atmosphere, the craic, the conviviality. If that is being impaired by an agressive admissions policy, deafening music and inflated bar prices, then God help them if somebody like Starbucks set up over here.

And then of course when the pub trade drops off with more and more people seeking their warmth and community elsewhere and the multinational chains increase their business we'll hear all sorts of bleating about how local indigenous traditional businesses are being put to flight by the agressive marketing of globalised brand names.

Bring back warmth and community to pubs. Or else globalisation will take it away from you for good.

The biggest favour somebody could do the pub trade is to get a branding iron with the phrase 'They're not just here for the beer' and imprint it on the forehead of every publican in the country.

bloggs

Originally posted by Hairy Homer
The biggest favour somebody could do the pub trade is to get a branding iron with the phrase 'They're not just here for the beer' and imprint it on the forehead of every publican in the country.

Got a better one, if people boycott pubs altogether

But then the words 'Hell' and 'freeze over' jump to mind.:rolleyes:

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

bugler

Possibly but I'm aware that bouncers stopped doing it several months ago alogether, in the city at least. I thought it was because of the Equality Act 2000. I've heard this from a few people but haven't found anything stating that specifically. It coincided with the whole "travelling community" debacle.
If they can legally do that...does it make it right? ...hell no IMO.

It was (and presume still is) routine for some of the niteclubs in Galway to insist on shoes being worn. There are always exceptions, and you might be lucky and get in without shoes, but people know well enough that if you want to go clubbing, don't wear runners to be safe. It's like ID, just stick it in the back pocket, incase. I don't believe this has changed at all over recent memory.

To be honest I never did get the fuss over dress codes. In my experience the clubs in galway aren't too harsh on implementing them (can be f*ckers for ID though), the only thing I've seen people refused for are runners or tracksuit bottoms. I don't think people should wear tracksuits to niteclubs. I only wear either of those garments when I'm exercising to be honest

sovtek

Originally posted by Mercury_Tilt
Runners are picked on becuase they represent casual dress to the utmost. Very few track suit wear gentry wear any thing other than runners. And its more track suits than runners they care about.

That's Victoria still stinking up the place.
The rest of the western world doesn't really give a **** what you wear as long as you look like you aren't going to cause problems for them.
That's actually the function of a bouncer. Protect patrons (1st priority) and property (very 2nd priority).
It helps that in the UK the bouncers have to be licensed by the police which involves a training course.

Money does not buy class.

bonkey

Originally posted by Hairy Homer
He says: 'The people who line up for Starbucks aren't just there for the coffee. It's the romance of the coffee experience, the feeling of warmth and community people get in Starbucks stores.'

Warmth and community huh? Do Starbucks chains have a dress code? Do they refuse you entry if you wear trainers? Do they have a pair heavies blocking every entrance enforcing arbitrary admissions policies?

I'll bet they don't, but then I don't really know because I've never been in a Starbucks. Do correct me, someone, if my supposition is wrong.

Well, Starbucks survives more off of its "carryout" business then its in-store "sit on a couch drinking coffee" business.

Also, Starbucks business model involves wiping out the competition by over-saturating the market, so it would also be true to say that many people "choose" Starbucks because of lack of choice.

From these perspectives, I would say that Mr. Schulz is issuing a nice piece of party spin, rather than uttering a truism.

Regardless of this, Starbuks not having a dress-code or door-policy is not necessarily an indicator of how successful such an approach would be in a different market sector such as pubs, and would have different demographics and dynamics associated with it (or so I would imagine).

On the other hand..."not just here for the beer" is a fair point to make. I'm not sure that any successful pub will really care though : If the people aren't there for the beer, then why change a winning formula.

jc

sovtek

Originally posted by bugler It was (and presume still is) routine for some of the niteclubs in Galway to insist on shoes being worn. There are always exceptions, and you might be lucky and get in without shoes, but people know well enough that if you want to go clubbing, don't wear runners to be safe.

I was more concerned with pubs/late bars and not really clubs.
I've never had a problem in Galway at all. Even going up to Rathmines is like a breath of fresh air compared to city centre Dublin.

The Beer Baron

I have given up on niteclubs, bouncers giving you hassle when you aren't drunk, and letting in people who can't even stand. Then when you are inside, you spend the whole nite queueing for the bar, only to have some halfwit pi** on you (didn't happen to me, but hear of a girl it happened to), then when you get to the bar you are ripped off for 5 euro a pint. Then queue for a taxi, to be ripped off again.

HERE HERE BROTHER!!!


I mean screw it all anyways- I hate nightclubs, and generally- if I see a bouncer I never go near the place, more and more places have bouncers these days- I avoid them. 'Less I know he's one of those rare "sound bouncers" (they exist- I swear!) or more to the point- bouncers that doesn't take one look at me and go....

The kind of place that enforces these policies are generally the kind of places I hate and filled with the sorts of people I despise. My policy is- if I'm discriminated against before I even get to the door then this isn't exactly the cozy and relaxing atmos I'm looking for. This is a Bud-trough for collars-up swine and I'd best leave it alone.

In fact I've actively, and friends of mine too, gone out of my way to get barred from certain nightclubs just so I'm not dragged by friends/so-called friends and girlfriends of friends/S-c friends to the same stupid kip eeeeevery-siiiingle-weekend.

But I still live in the vain hope, that someplace, somewhere my Cheers exists- a cozy, intimate dark watering-hole with good music played in the background and friendly and interesting crazies to talk to. Dream on I suppose.

Victor

Originally posted by Hairy Homer
The biggest favour somebody could do the pub trade is to get a branding iron with the phrase 'They're not just here for the beer' and imprint it on the forehead of every publican in the country.

But they wouldn't be able to read it then - or would you have it back to front so they could see it in the mirror?

echomadman

and you wan to go into a premisies that descriminates based on clothing ...... why exactly?


best thing to do is get everyone you know to boycott said establishment, and get them to get as many people as they can to do the same, the only way to hurt places liek that is in the wallet

Hairy Homer

:

---

Originally posted by Hairy Homer
The biggest favour somebody could do the pub trade is to get a branding iron with the phrase 'They're not just here for the beer' and imprint it on the forehead of every publican in the country.

---

Originally posted by Victor
But they wouldn't be able to read it then - or would you have it back to front so they could see it in the mirror?

Branding irons, being traditional impact printers, intrinsically follow the negative printing methodology with which anybody preparing a message for reproduction in that form would be familiar.

Offset printing, such as is common place in today's reproduction technology involves the use of positive (ie readable) lithographic plates and a combination of water-repellant oils, inks and rollers to transfer that image to paper.

I presume you could use the same method on a publican but then they wouldn't feel any PAIN!!!

Which was the point of using the branding iron in the first place.

You're messing with the wrong pedant. :-)

sovtek

Originally posted by The Beer Baron

But I still live in the vain hope, that someplace, somewhere my Cheers exists- a cozy, intimate dark watering-hole with good music played in the background and friendly and interesting crazies to talk to. Dream on I suppose.

I don't know where 'bouts you stay but in city centre it's either Dame Tavern (not to be confused with 4 Dame Lane, which is the most expensive pint I know of €5.15) or Brogan's on Dame Street.
Unfortunetly they close normal hours. Late drinking is impossible if you go by your criteria...one reason the closing hours here piss me off.

bloggs

In all honesty people, if you owned a nightclub, who would you rather in the guy in the Nike tracksuit and sovereign rings, or a guy in an Armani suit?

Victor

Originally posted by bloggs
In all honesty people, if you owned a nightclub, who would you rather in the guy in the Nike tracksuit and sovereign rings, or a guy in an Armani suit?

I'd also like to shag that pretty girl, but sometimes you don't get to have everything you want.

sovtek

Originally posted by bloggs
In all honesty people, if you owned a nightclub, who would you rather in the guy in the Nike tracksuit and sovereign rings, or a guy in an Armani suit?

If he keeps his hands of my wallet and my pint...then the tracksuit.
People at the Shelbourne get drunk and disorderly too.
My point is a public bar shouldn't be excluding who they want and who they don't.

embee

Us ladies seem to get lass hassle than blokes...

Once or twice Ive sauntered into Spirit in trainers and nothing said.....

Had a friend refused entry to Spirit because he was flying low...
Now, that I dont get.....

The Beer Baron

Anyone who goes into a club in an Armani suit is obviously where the tracksuit guy get's his drugs from.

echomadman

In all honesty people, if you owned a nightclub, who would you rather in the guy in the Nike tracksuit and sovereign rings, or a guy in an Armani suit?

Jesus, the world is not comprised of diametric opposites like this,


What about us hairy uncouth slobs, dont wear tracksuits or armani.


and what about Armani tracksuits??


If I see bouncers I take it as a given that i wont be let in, whereas the scummer wearing a collar and a pair of shoes will be let in to bottle/stab and fight to their hearts content.


BOYCOTT places with over-stringent door policies

The Beer Baron

indeed.

nor do I wish to be drinking in the presense of Armani sorts.

I wish there were pubs that done the opposite- barred people for wearing shoes, chinos, those golf shirts with the crocodiles on 'em...wish I had a pub- then I'd show 'em.

(grumble grumble)...yuppie scum...