Eircom's Flatrate

the Guru

eircom net anytime - 150 hours per month at anytime of day, on any day € 29.99 (inc VAT) (€ 24.79 ex VAT)

eircom net flat rate 60 - 60 hours p.m. off peak (6pm - 8am Mon-Fri, and all day weekends and bank holidays) € 19.99 (inc VAT)

eircom net flat rate 25 - 25 hours p.m. off peak (6pm - 8am Mon-Fri, and all day weekends and bank holidays) € 9.99 (inc VAT)

Mossy Monk

not very exciting is it?

BKtje

Are they purposely shooting themselves in the foot or is it just stupidity?

Urban Weigl

What a sick, twisted joke. Of course, one should expect nothing else from the rat.

Scruff

30 hours less than esatbt and the same price......tossers

me thinks they are banking on people (the uninformed or wary) just sticking with them because of the hassle involed in switiching totally over to utvip or the perceived hassle of having bills coming in from esatbt as well as themselves while maximising what they can get away with. If people do use another 30 hours they would have got with utvip or esatbt, they pocket a nice extra €22.68

JTMan

What a poor poor offer.

Originally posted by B-K-DzR
Are they purposely shooting themselves in the foot or is it just stupidity?

They are simply taking advantage of the majority of the population who won't bother/won't know to look at UTV/ESAT BT.

Dustaz

Thats unbelievable.

Im sure theyll do well from it out of name recognition alone but jesus, youd think theyd be able to manage better.

viking

Guru, where did you find this information?

viking

Paddy20

The Rat offers the punters 30 hours per month online less than UTVip XL and has the cheek to charge €5 per month MORE?.. Now let the media do their job and inform the Irish citizenry how Eircom tries it on again.

I am surprised, but actually pleased for UTVip XL who have been so open and courageous and customer led!, IMHO.

P.;)

BArra

where do i sign up?

Raskolnikov

If that is Eircom's attempt to break into the flatrate market then I think it's Ireland Offline's responsibility to make sure that people realise there are far better alternatives.

If anyone does sign up to that, and knows their options, I'm sorry, they deserve nothing short of castration.

billy the squid

what did you expect good value. your talking abou eircom here a decen offer would not keep their biddies in their overpaid jobs

gandalf

HMmm until I see an offical press release or link to product details on their webpage I would discount this info.

Gandalf.

BKtje

The Rat offers the punters 30 hours per month online less than UTVip XL and has the cheek to charge €5 per month MORE?.. Now let the media do their job and inform the Irish citizenry how Eircom tries it on again.

Personally if it was between them and UTv id go with Eircom..simply as UTV's network is so abd for pings. Thank **** for Esat ... well and my soon to be dsl connection. (already over due )

rymus

Originally posted by B-K-DzR
Are they purposely shooting themselves in the foot or is it just stupidity?

...a little from column A, a little from column B

Creamy Goodness

eircom whats the point in doing these offers at prices that no one will go for???


what i say to eircom is

here lies eircom
R.I.P


well in the internet side of things

corkie

Originally posted by gandalf
HMmm until I see an offical press release or link to product details on their webpage I would discount this info.

Gandalf.

A friend of mine was informed about this offer from somebody, so he rang eircom to confirm the details and was told they hadn't finalized the package yet.

That is why there is no details on the website.

I'm just guessing here but I think their using their reps to test out, what they can get a way with.

MDR

people are terrified of going to other providers, it will sell like hotcakes ....

the Guru

A friend of mine was informed about this offer from somebody, so he rang eircom to confirm the details and was told they hadn't finalized the package yet.

It was only launched this morning and is to be rolled out on the 4th of Sept

sceptre

Originally posted by MDR
people are terrified of going to other providers, it will sell like hotcakes ....

Agreed. It's bad value obviously but given that there is actual competition in the market (obviously ignoring Eircom's cut off the top), if they want to release a bad-value product they're fully entitled to do so.

bk

It is correct. You can see it in Eircoms PDF on pending price changes document here . Pages 10 and 11 are what your are looking for.

Paddy20

Gee, how nice of the Rat to give UTVip XL notice of the official launch date, U.TV Internets Ad Agency should now be able to introduce a really winning advertisement for their packages that should wipe the floor with whats left of the Eircom Rat?.. What an unmissable opportunity for the Rats competitors!.

P.:)

spongebob

Reading this

http://www.eircom.ie/About/Activities/pending.pdf

pages 10 and 11 indeed has the proposed flatrate tariffs etc.

Page 15 has the product description . Here is the catch.

It appears that you MUST subscribe to an ISP before you use Eircom Flatrate . It is not clear which ISP.

It also strikes me that this paragraph was written by a legal muppet who does not understand the product. This is an appaling piece of legalese gobbledegook , undermined by an injuicious use of the word 'unlimited' .....anyone ?

Internet Access Service
The company may provide a facility, in this scheme referred to as “Internet access service”, to Internet
service providers whereby customers who also subscribe to Internet service providers may make an
internet access call. Internet access service shall be provided by the use of telephone exchange line
numbers prefixed by 1891, 1892 and 1893 codes. There shall be charged to and paid by the Internet
service provider in respect of the provision by the company of the Internet access service to the Internet
service provider the charges specified in Part 13.1 of Section 1 of this scheme. There shall be charged to
customers who also subscribe to Internet service providers and paid by such customers in respect of the
use of the Internet access service the charges specified in Part 13.2 of Section 1 of this scheme.
The charges specified in Part 13.2 of Section 1 of this Scheme include charges for Flat Rate Internet
Access Service whereby customers on payment of a minimum fee per monthly billing period shall be
allowed unlimited access to the eircom Internet Access Service during specified times for specified periods.

Where is Ardmore when you need him , he can speak Eircom HQ english so he can.

Oh, its a 2 monthl allowance for Residential users

The minimum fee payable, the specified times and the specified periods are as set out in Part 2.1 of
Section 1 of this Scheme.
In the event that the customer does not exhaust the total of the period of unlimited access available to it in
any one billing cycle it shall not carryover any unused period to any next or subsequent billing cycle.

It cannot be advertised as a monthly billed product then.

M

gandalf

Why do I get the feeling I'll be complaining about the ads for this to the ASAI already (and they haven't even officially launched it!) :rolleyes:

Gandalf.

bk

Originally posted by gandalf
Why do I get the feeling I'll be complaining about the ads for this to the ASAI already (and they haven't even officially launched it!) :rolleyes:

Gandalf.

Hey, why don't you write a letter to the ASAI fore warning them, then when Eircom do break the rules you can point back at your first letter.

spongebob

Originally posted by bk
Hey, why don't you write a letter to the ASAI fore warning them, then when Eircom do break the rules you can point back at your first letter.

Jeez we are getting good at the ASAI lark.

Lets look up a few of their recent findings on Eircom and go for it.

The pending PDF linked Earlier is Eircoms Reference Interconnect offer (amedment thereto)

We can remind the ASAI that

1. Eircom will not be launching flat rate in September and may therefore not advertise flat rate. It will be launching

"The charges specified in Part 13.2 of Section 1 of this Scheme include charges for Flat Rate Internet
Access Service whereby customers on payment of a minimum fee per monthly billing period shall be
allowed unlimited access to the eircom Internet Access Service during specified times for specified periods."

Unlimited for specific times for specific periods..... mmmmmmmm.

2. Eircom will not be lauching a monthly rated product , it will be lauching a Bill Period Allowance. Residential users pay their bills every 2 months so a Truthful ad should show the charge as per the Bill Period.

"In the event that the customer does not exhaust the total of the period of unlimited access available to it in
any one billing cycle it shall not carryover any unused period to any next or subsequent billing cycle."

An unused monthly allowance can be carried along for the ENTIRE Bill period, it expires at the end of the Bill period, not enforceable monthly then.

The fact that Eircom will not give you theoption to pay monthly, by locking you into a 2 monthly Bill Cycle , is further ammunition.

3. Given the amount of cases that Eircom has lost in the ASAI , I believe that the ASAI should be reminded of the contents of Eircoms OWN product manual (the RIO) in order that they preempt some of the more outrageuos porkies that Eircom will attempt on an unsuspecting public, as usual.

M

Delphi91

Getting back to the fundamental problem.....

As I understand it from the posts so far, Eircom hope to launch a FlatRate service in the near future which is actually a "worse" service (in terms of hours/€) than its competitors, all of whom are using Eircoms facilities.

This leads to two possibilities as I see it:

1. The price Eircom are proposing to charge is the actual cost and the others are undercutting (taking a loss?) in order to win customers.

2. The competitors are charging a fair price and Eircom is "overcharging".

Now I doubt if the first is true, because as some of us have learned to our cost, companies can't keep taking losses indefinitely. [Surf Nolimits]

So, that suggests the second is true. Which begs the question, WHY???

What do Eircom have to gain by giving a financially less attractive (to the customer) service? Is it part of a legal challenge to show that to be commercially viable, they have to charge this price which then means that if they need to make a profit, they have to charge other operators a higher fee for access to their system?

Gotta say, its a weird one. I would have expected them to provide a better service (not that I'd go for it, mind you!!)

Methinks the rat is planning future tactics......

Mike

Bosco

Do I eat up my hours twice as fast if I connect using two ISDN channels? Or do they charge my the minute for the second channel?

Sorry, off topic I know.

dahamsta

Delphi91, it's number 2. Bill Murphy may look (to me) like he's going about things the wrong way, but he's no fool either, and even the 'roids in EsatBT aren't incompetent enough to "Do a NoLimits" again. They're making a small profit, and we can gather this because UTV has come here and told us straight out that they're making a small profit (and I believe them).

The reason is that they're the incumbent, they still have a large majority market share and they have (anti-competitive) advantages over the competition. Some of them are hard (for us) to prove, such as (illegal) data-sharing and subsidies between the wholesale and retail arms; but some of them are blatant, such as their ability to bundle marketing material in the telephone bills. All go unpunished by Comreg.

With this and the fact that consumers are ill-educated about their rights, and the blame for this rests on the competition as much as anyone else, Eircom feel that they don't need to compete on price. If you dig deeper though, you'll see that they're probably just playing the odds. They've likely analysed the BT statistics in the UK and will play the game and try to push as hard as they can without going as far as BT (and fscking up).

Personally I don't think they can do it. They're too cocksure and they'll push too hard and we'll see a replication of the massive losses in the UK. That being said, Eircom might not care about this because the intention could well be - probably is - to fleece the Irish for as much as possible before they flee the country with their ill-gotten gains. Well, the 34% that are actually in the country anyway...

adam

GerardKeating

Originally posted by Muck
Residential users pay their bills every 2 months so a Truthful ad should show the charge as per the Bill Period.

Many/Most eircom prices are quoted monthly, but charged at the billing period, so why should the flat rate option be any different.

Eircom do offer options to switch to monthly billing.

BoneCollector

at these prices why should they compete at all??
since there competition(Resellers) are already paying them for the same products.

so realisticaly it probably does not make a blind bit of difference if they sell or not, this probably just a pr excercise

the Guru

Do I eat up my hours twice as fast if I connect using two ISDN channels? Or do they charge my the minute for the second channel?

ISDN dual Channel 2 calls you will use twice as many minutes

spongebob

with the one MSN I trust ? , otherwise you pay full whack on one channel while the other is at a package rate.

Cabaal

Well I think everyone has to agree that this does not amaze anyone!

There was no way the rat would bring out a good quality package, why would it?!?

Its still making loads of money off of 1.5c net access

Can't see this improving for awhile and I'm very sad to have to say this.

bugler

Can someone clarify this ISDN Dual channel issue for me please? It's my understanding that if you connect at 128k then you will be charged by the minute on the second channel...there is no mechanism whereby you can use your allotted minutes to connect with dual channel.

with the one MSN I trust ?

What's that mean?

elsoldemayo

Originally posted by Cr3m0
eircom whats the point in doing these offers at prices that no one will go for???


what i say to eircom is

here lies eircom
R.I.P


well in the internet side of things

Unfortunately a lot of people will go for this offer as the majority of Joe Public still believe Eircom is working in the public's interest and what ever they offer is a good deal despite evidence to contradict this viewpoint.

It's the old arguement 'why are the other's offering a cheaper service, there must be something wrong with it, I'll stick with what I know'

I think we as a nation are very wary of change which suits Eircom down to the ground.

the Guru

a MSN is a Multipile Subscriber Number .... Dont worry about it yes you will be charged 2 calls or twice as many minutes if you use dual channel. answ Only at the the local call price if you go over your hours

spongebob

Multilink WILL be supported by all the Eircom.Net 1893 products but will use up your minutes allowance in half the time you contracted in for.

Is that Correct Guru?? It is certainly of interest for those who may wish to have a backup ISDN line for emergencies.

M

the Guru

that is Correct Muck

If you use 2 channels you will use up twice as much time
so for dual channel you will get 75 hours per month
if you are using the 2 channels all the time

Im sure this is the same with all the companies offerings of flatrate internet.

Please also note that if you multilink for 1 hour this will be 2 hours taken of the 150 hours

spongebob

Originally posted by the Guru

Im sure this is the same with all the companies offerings of flatrate internet.

No. IOL do not allow it, AFAIR 64k only, although they may have changed their product since I enquired about this in June . Their FAQ is most informative See

UTV do not allow it see http://www.utvip.com/faq.asp?loc=ie&id=19&stext=channels&listcat=&title= . The UTV FAQ is the best around.......fair play again lads.

Thanks for your help.

M

Sir Random

We have 2 PCs, each using it's own ISDN modem with UTViXL.
If I connect at 128 or we both connect simultaneously at 64, both phone numbers will be billed from the 180 hour allowance.

spongebob

http://www.utvip.com/faq.asp?loc=ie&id=19&stext=channels&listcat=&title=

sez one channel ...or one channel per MSN... no mention of multilink from one MSN

M

Urban Weigl

Sir Random, have you considered purchasing an ISDN router? That way, you can connect many computers through a single ISDN connection at the same time. (Try searching for "ISDN router" on www.ebay.co.uk -- I got one there for under 50 euros).

Matfinn

To be honest, I think this product will sell far better than any other competitors flatrate on the market, simply because Eircom have vast marketing resources behind them. Only geeks who know about Eircoms misdeeds will buy the competition, but the ordinary people, who make up the majority, will go for eircom. I can almost gauruntee it.

Matt

Gibs

Slightly off the point, but not only is UTV's FRIACO product much cheaper than Eircom's, their ordinary voice telephone charges (which you must also sign up for when you get their internet service) are also much cheaper. Normal telephone calls are up to 20% less, although there is a call initiation charge of about 3.5 cent per call.

I know this is not an eircom bashing forum, but I get more and more p***ed off with their cavalier attitude towards their customers. I signed up with UTV a month ago and have had no problems so far. The moral of the story is that the only power we have to make a real change in pricing structures is to change telepony providers.

I am soooo looking forward to my next eircom bill and I can't wait to explain to the poor unfortunate whose job it will be to ring me and ask me if I want to return to eircom, that I would rather stick needles into my nether regions than give them another cent to pay for their over-priced, anti-competitive products.

Call me petty, but when you live in a small midlands town you have to take your satisfaction where you can get it.

Spread the UTV word......

sceptre

Originally posted by Gibs
Spread the UTV word......

Indeed but what you've posted above is effectively message board spam. We don't post about a competitor's products on a thread discussing another company's product. If we allowed that every time the entire board would be a mess. It's not an eircom-bashing board but it's also not an advertise for UTV in the eircom flat-rate thread board either. I'm not coming down hard as it's your first post (welcome by the way!) but you hopefully see my point.

(normally I'd split this off but frankly I'm off to bed)

Matfinn

Sceptre

Take it easy man.

Matt

Gibs

Duly noted Sceptre, though perhaps a little harsh, not to mention condescending?

I will endeavour to avoid your ire in future.

Gibs.

P.S. Cheers Matt.:cool:

sceptre

Apologies. My post above reads as rather harsh (especially the first line, my bad). Didn't mean it that way and I'm not going to try and blame the lateness or the weather.

Gibs

No prob Sceptre. Thanks.
Gibs.