Quake2 and Quake3 for muppets

Blade

Ha ha I'll get loads of grief over this post but hey!

Quotes from http://www.firingsquad.com/games/quake3/
Preview by Dennis "Thresh" Fong: March 1, 1999

Random fact:
Hardcore gamers make up less than 5% of the game buying population.

They are listening -- All we, as hardcore gamers, need to do is remember one thing: Their intended audience is not us. They want to make everything fun and fair for us and give us the best competitive experience.
(in other words it's designed for muppets like quake2)

we managed to figure out why the Quake 2 RL felt "lagged" as compared to the Quake 1 RL. I tried explaining the feeling to him, that the Quake 2 RL felt like it was firing the rocket slightly slower than the original's.. but he couldn't quite figure out what I was trying to say.
we managed to figure out why the After a little thinking and more description from me about what was going on, Carmack suddenly exclaimed, "Oh, I know what it might be!" He proceeded to load up the Quake and Quake 2 code... and found that Quake's rockets had an additional 50ms of prediction added on top of it. Meaning, as you hit fire, the rocket actually comes out 50ms ahead of you... and not directly out of your body. In Quake 2 and Q3 (at the time),
Carmack then changed it, and there was an immediate difference in the way the RL felt. All of a sudden I could do a lot of the "strafe around a corner, fire a rocket quickly then duck back in" maneuver that I used to do in Quake, but couldn't quite manage in Quake 2
(sounds like the quake RL is a more skillfull weapon doesn't it)

The railgun:
Players who were less adept with the close-combat weapons could also just stay at long distances, picking at their enemies rather than engaging them. These are the drawbacks of implementing such a great sniping weapon.
(in other words for muppets)

The BFG:
Here's the deal - the purpose behind having a BFG is to give newbies the satisfaction of at least getting one kill. How? By providing them with a weapon that doesn't require much (if any) skill to use/aim, but is extremely powerful. You can see such an example in the Quake 2 BFG. It doesn't require any aim, simply shoot it at the ground and anyone around you (that can be seen) will receive damage.
(in other words for muppets)

I rest my case,
Blade

SeP

blade your mising the point that alot of those things "for muppets" were taken out of Q3
and the raigun is no more for muppets, its the hardest thing to aim and hit properly with!

on with the q2_muppet_style spam

ButcherOfNog

errr blade thinks the rail is for newbies? ok, yep, your right.

Hobbes

This is the old argument. The BFG is not a powerful weapon. Sure you can throw a shot into a room full of muppets. But the only reason you get score is that the muppets are there to begin with (and prolly Q1 muppets).

Unless the ball is coming straight at you, it's easy to dodge.

Learn to change your tactics in Q2 from Q1 and u's won't whine so much.

TwoShedsJackson

Yes, we must all agree with the almighty Thresh. I have no brain or opinion of my own, must cut and paste.... cut & paste.

Hecate

im breakin my ****s laughing here Blade, what you dont know about q2 could fill a warehouse.

Blade

I didn't say what I think I'm simply quoting God himself, it's there in plain English what he thinks and the muppet elements of Q2 he's hoping to get ID to correct for Q3. He's working alongside ID and they said it themselves that they are designing Q3 for newbies as they did Q2 because newbies make up 95% of the game buying population.

"Blade, what you dont know about q2 could fill a warehouse"

Funny you should say that, isn't every f*cking level in Q2 a warehouse? nothing but boxes scattered around in different formations to give the appearence of a different level, they did this because they were in a hurry to get Q2 out for Christmas.

Blade

WhiteWashMan

actually i reasd that few days ago. im not bothered to go and cut and paste the bits, but what he meant by hard core gamers is ppl who go out and buy top of the range pc's, 2 v2's in sli and have 92 inch monitors purely for games. the other 95% were made up ppl who have a pc and play games. he didnt say that the other 95% crap/newbies/anything else.
as for the railgun, bah, too hard to use. so i guess that makes me a complete muppet
white(wtf is green armour?)wash

Bunny

BFG is a muppet weapon, but fun. I just kill everyone with the rocket launcher while they're trying to rail me.

Kegser

Okay so Thresh doesn't like Quake 2 who gives a ****?. Either does Blade, also, who gives a ****?.

Basically, you can play whatever ****ing game you like without getting hassle from little ****bags who are trying to look big because "The game I play and may be slightly good at is much better then any other game which I may not be as good at in and for one two ar several reasons I don't like it and also you're all muppets who play it not that muppet really means anything but still what the hey since I've started I'll keep going because I'm a what? A MUPPET? Oh good god!"

Now what else... Ah yes.

Using the RL and RG in Quake 2 is refined to an art-form, and skilled players can use it well and newbies can't.

This is the same in Quake, except it takes even longer to get the hang of it and progress to the 'average' stage.

The length of time this takes in Quake 2 is much shorter, but to get into the ranks of the skilled takes a lot of time and patience.

Also I don't remember any Crates on DM 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, or 7. This may be just me but still. Also since when is Lava an integral part of a Warehouse?

Kegs.

(That was fun for me, I hope you enjoyed it too.)

Hecate

and another thing,

why oh why when q1 players talk about q2 players they cant help but mention muppets in the same sentence. Now excuse me, but when was the last time u heard of a q2 player physically asaullting another player?...are we plaugued by spammers on q2 servers?...do people scream, "fu(k you, that was a flukey shot?" when someone frags them on a q2 server..no. It just doesnt happen, weve got ourselves a nice little community here that regularly meets up to get pi5sed toghether (cept me of course, coke boy strikes again! ...and we just play the game..so em, THERE!

Von

I reckon us Q1ers could outdrink u pansies anyday. Remember the Quakemas ****up? Lasted 3 days that did. And not a bother on us. etc etc

JaneyMackers

Ok Blade.
1) Its quite apparent that you have never played q2 for an extended period and given it the time it deserves before you dismiss it as LAME MUPPET GAME?

2)You have no idea about the weapons as you showed in your RG is for newbies comment.And with BFG most players will say if you see it coming its easily dodged without losing very much energy if any at all.

3)What with you q1 guys, its like your paranoid about weather q1 is better than q2 so you must at every stage go q2 muppets *******s.

As far as i can see the q1 scene have alot more actual Muppets, goin round ****in everyone of on irc,We had a few but they seem to be gone now .

So i recommend you play q2 a bit more give it a go ffs and know something about what you diss before you diss it.
JM

MikeS

I now play Q2 and found that its sooo full of CHEATS! like aim bots its not worth playing anymore EG. A guy wiv a Rail gun hits u EVERYTIME with the first shot no matter how fast yer moveing is not on NO and i mean NO ONE is that good with a Rail Gun as for the BFG well i might be a MUPPET but its my only defence against such cheating scum in Q2 so ill continue to be a muppet!

MikeS

Cheez

be careful who ye blame lad
jesus be careful
QUAKE2 has tis "logs" thingy attached to it that can be used as evidence against you(or just to take the ****)
fu(k fu(k fu(kin BASTERD Ofa yolk it is too
now that i think about it
don't worry i won't loose any sleep over it

WhiteWashMan

well, i suppose if you aint gonna jump around like mad dodging railz then of course you gonna get killed. an i know several ppl who could get you with a first shot. ive seen em do it on a lan. in fact, ive had it done to me.
anyway, its only for fun. so many uptight ppl. i reckon yis should go out an try some mind expanding drugs

MikeS

Now DRUGS! might just explaine how its done WWM But i have it on good authority that NO ONE! is that good wiv a Rail Gun without cheating EG ZBOTS for one but theres more. Role on Q3 "For a While Anyway" till the cheats get at it.. And the really sad thing is even LPB's are cheating!! My opinion is that Q1 2 or 3 should be played JUST AS IT IS!!! without all the add on's then everyone (sept LPB's) would be equal!



MikeS

MikeS

Oh Sorry Cheez did i regreatfully mention names in my las post ? or are u just caought out ?

lol

SheroN

the rail gun is for newbies? ahahahahahhaha
thats what all folk who can't hit the broad side of a barn with a beachball always say blame the weapon... sure its probally the fact
your **** yourself like

shank

Mikes, there are no Z-bots on Irish servers now, I don't think there ever really was a problem to be honest. Yeah it's a total pain in the *****to be taken out by 1 rail shot, but thats why the armour is there... use it. Also there are a fair few ninja players out there that will hit you first time with a rail, while yr running/jumping/midair so strafe and jump like a motherfu[ker to avoid being hit.

---

shank1@usa.net
q2n.quake.ie

DeVore

HAhaha, this is funny.
Look lads, the fact is that the Yamato gun is just TOO powerful and its for muppets!
(well its as useful as comparing rail with RL)

Anyway, bunny would kill you all in q2. Imho (considering what I have said above) q2 doesnt require as much mental speed. The urgency isnt there in the game for me and those damned annoying footsteps are just a pain in the ass.

Its a fun game tho, no doubting that, its just not a game you can take to the sort of vicious levels that the q1 boys have.
Anyway I have my Zerg-swarm cheat ready for DM3... fly my pretties...

DeV.

JaneyMackers

Mikes theres no chance someone was using a zbot against you as there protection on the server the players is kicked instantly.Therefore you are just **** at q2.
THATS my IMHO

Dev. That grand constructive critisim by someone who had obviously played the game..

TwoShedsJackson

Ah yes, the old 'i cant use the railgun, therefore anyone who can is a cheat'. Truly the argument of a complete tit. Come on to the quake.ie servers and we'll have a go MikeS, but dont forget, we have a years practice at q2 on you pal.

Much the way all q1'ers have two-three years practice on anyone who were to start playing now.

mewso

I always laugh at the old Quake is better than Quake2 is better than Quake arguements. I thought to be honest we were finished with it a long time ago.
In any case regarding Thresh's comments I'm reminded of the recent stuff I read from Lord Carmack on the idea of equalising the game for muppets and Gods alike. He wants the Frag God to only whip the newbie by about 1 or 2 frags instead of 20 to some arbitrary minus figure. (God knows I've been that minus figure many times)
Having played both games I have to say Quake remains the superior DM game for the solo player. The irony really is that Quake 2 is much more suited to the tactical side of the game, i.e. teamplay, and I'm not going to go into detail. I just believe this to be the case. Slower, more thought required etc.
I used to champion Quake2 wholeheartedly and in hindsight it's because I wanted it to be better not because it was.
The reality is that after a while playing Q2 and discovering that I was, yet again, an average player in a game that wasn't as exciting or as big an adrenalin rush as Quake was I returned to being an average player in the aforementioned Quake and haven't played Q2 in ages. Don't get me wrong I mean to go back and play it every now and again but sure a fast game of CA always seems more exciting.
A friend of mine recently went back to QW too, his explanation being that the pace and excitement of FFA right up to the fraglimit was just far superior to Q2. I was quick to point out that part of the reason for that was he has ISDN and is always up there in contention for reaching the Frag limit but you can understand his point. That Flav by the way
Finally I might bring your attention to another game. I've tried playing Half-Life recently on the local server and boy does it rock. If only I had a better PC. The laser sight on the RL is a work of genius and adds to the tension. When you see a red laser sight on the wall you know you could be facing trouble round the corner. What do you do? Turn and run. Trust your Machine Gun or hide. It's good folks and I hope more of ye will try it out.

M

MikeS

Ok apologies to all on sundery maby there are ppl that are that good wiv the rail gun and yep i was a bit ****ed off at getting lamped the whole time by it i dunno who the player was and there was only about 7 ppl playing when i joind the game but it soon wittled down to just 1 . I wondey why ? maby all the rest of the players were just newbies as well an we were up against a NINJA! WHOOP! well if the guy was that good gees fair play to him im really impressed i cant master the rail gun at all Oh well maby in time ill get the hang of it. But at the moment i just one of those new muppets trying to hit a barn door with it Soz

MikeS

Hecate

yeh, in all truth, there is a precious few that play q2 in Ireland when compared to q1. And these are hardcore players...we dont even have any muppets anymore, a few come close, but they're a pretty poor excuse ...can we close this thread now

MikeS

I dunno if im to feel happy or sad at that tis kinda a 2 way reply but i will take it as it was ment and just feel LOST!
lol ))))
and ;( and and whatever other smiley i can get

juNkie

AAhhh ffs, had a huge post to reply but IE crashed an I lost it.

to re-cap....

DeV&Bunny, yis want your go, fair nuff, I'll play yis, well Bunny anyway, DeV seems to be pimpin him or somethin Wan the DeV laa!

Mikes...haven't a clue etc etc newbie etc etc lol etc etc static targets don't work too well in Q2 etc etc rail gun rules but it hard to use etc etc etc zbot protection in use on Quake.ie, bet u feel pretty low now etc etc....

who do u love....

juNk laa

Blade

Cool loads of replies as I expected! not enough abuse from the Q2'ers tho!!! come on lads!

Ok heres what I have to add, firstly I'd like to say that all the Q2'ers I've met are really cool people, like someone said not as much sh*te going on as in the Quake lot but thats because you have a nice small community which is ok.

However regarding first person shoot em ups a persons "true" skill can only be seen at high speeds, that means on LAN and using a fast paced game. Let me try to explain as koopa once told it to me... if I were to play koopa in a duel with both of us on 500 pings, then the result would probably be very close at the end of it, lets say 20 to 15 for him, however if we were to play on a lan at 14 ping then that margin would not be so narrow, something like 40 to -1 for him, so in reality thats exactly how much better than me this guy actually is so why should this not show at the end of the game? By slowing things down like adding 50 milliseconds ping delay to the reloading of a weapon, or by trying (like muso said) to even out the game play so that newbies have a chance does not show the true skill level of a player, this is what we're saying is the problem with quake2 and will more than likely be the same with Quake3 because like ID said they are going to try to even out the game play so that the frag difference between newbies and koopa's will be grately reduced thus the end frag result will not display peoples true skill.

A perfect example of this as Zero said before is quake1's Clan arena, muppets can often score higher by pot luck than a ninja especially over few round, ok at the end of 11 or more rounds the better players tend to be on top but not by a realistic margin of their true skill, for example I've often scored even after 11 rounds more than koopa and or tomb, but in a war this would never happen because they are 10 times better than me. Ok we all play some arena for fun as I'm sure quake2 is fun for you guys but we realise that this is by no means a true indication of skill, also the fact that it's not TP2 doesn't help new players when they move to playing a war and most if not all of them know that and are trying to get more wars going to improve their skills.

Janey Mackers or whatever your name is: Please note that the comments in my posts about the quake2 weapons were a direct extract from Thresh's report on Q3 not my comments.

Blade

El_Presidente

Blade is right

got it in a nut-shell, when a newbie plays thresh I WANT to see him win 40 - -3 it shows the true level of skill and when you take this whole thing as seriosly as a hell of alot of ppl do then this is the only realistic set-up you can have.

k, its been decided, quick someone go tell ID.

DeVore

Ok we all play some arena for fun as I'm sure quake2 is fun for you guys but we realise that this is by no means a true indication of skill.

errr... we do?
Now hang on there a min partner ...
Ok, me an tomb have ding dong battles in CA. I love them. I love playing Beast or Mickah or Bunny or any of the ninjas. I can more or less hold my own with them in CA. But they are a good bit better then me to say the least in a war. So who decided that wars dictate the bottom line for skill? Or duels even? I have become a good Clan Arena player, and koopa has become a great duelist. How can you say one is better then the other? Just because CA arrived late?

I've been down this road before, but I'll state two points once again because I feel they need to be reiterated.

1. There is such a thing as a skilled Clan Arena player and if you are a ninja war/duelist DONT expect to come to my turf and beat me the same as you would on duel1 or war1.

2. CA doesnt have that much trouble with spam or muppets-winning-by-luck. It IS possible that you got B|TCHSLAPPED by a better -=*CA*=- player. Take the fuking pain and dont just dismiss the entire mod as "talentless ****e" as many players who should know better have. Just cos you got beat doesnt mean that someone cheated or got lucky.

God knows I live on that CA server so if anyone was going to complain about spam or lucky muppets it would be me. And I dare ANYONE to say that I spam.
I'll play anyone 1 v 1 in CA and show you what CA skill is about.

DeV (who doesnt want to open that can of worms again, even tho he just has)

adra

DeVore.......
U spam!

Scarab

Ok Deja Vous..

All i am going to say is that every skill required to be a good CA player is also requierd to be a good dueller/war player and a sh!tload more on top of that. Now you can go on about cattle prodding and mad rocket jump aliases, but any decent war player would beat the **** out of a CA player.

shank

Eh lads remember this is a Q1 v Q2 thing, not a shaggin Arena v War (start another thread for thats one. K now em, oh yeah Blade we think yr cool too even if ya do play Quake . Where did this newbie have a fair shot at stayin close to a ninja come, I mean ffs, did you not see Thresh wipin the Floor with Billox in the recentish UK wireplay thingy. Billox is far from a newbie, while not the best in the UK I think he is prolly top 5 or so, and Thresh totaly humiliated him. So Q2 certainly rewards the more skillful player by a longshot

---

shank1@usa.net
q2n.quake.ie

SheroN

Nah CA is good like just not quake tho'........and quake2 is deadly..blade like all this more skill in quake1 ****..but quake2 is more fun.........and not as many shades of brown

Scarab

Yes Thresh wiped the floor with bo=illox and Thresh is a Quake1 player. He just played quake2 cause it was the newest game out, therefore required for the PGL, he has gone back to Quake1 now.

Blade

Dev CA gives u all weaps.. tons of health... and u cant damage yourself. It's for muppets face it, ask Zero

Anyway everyone seems to be missing my point here, I'm not saying "skill" in the same sense of the word as most of you are taking it. Sure there are arena skills, sure there are CTF skills (grapple etc) but at the same time there are Chess skills, they are all different skills, but what I'm talking about is the basic skills which apply to ALL first person shoot em ups from doom to quake3, which are:

1) To be able to aim accuratly at high speeds
(the higher the better)

2) To stay alive as long as possible
(including not killing yourself)
which rewards you with 2 things
one is that the enemy gets less
frags and two that you are more
stocked up in A/H and weapons
which gives you the advantage
you deserve over your enemy.

3) To know where and when to pickup
items along the way.

Those are the 3 basic elements in all the games we are talking about and will more than likely remain the 3 basic elements of games to come, games of this type of course. If a game "Levels out game play" by reducing in any way the skills needed in any of those 3 I listed then the end result will NOT SHOW the true basic skill levels of players. Sorry dev but CA ruines basic requirement no.3 and in our case kinda f*cks up no.2 too.

Love
Blade

DeVore

How To Argue Just Like Blade In 3 Easy Steps.

1. Make up some dubious "required skills".

2. Avoid any discussion as to whether these "skills" really ARE required. Dont even acknowledge that you are plucking them from thin air and they are solely your opinions.

3. Show that the object of your argument breaches those rules (you might want to think about this before choosing the rules in the first place) and then denounce it from on high.

When I studied logic this was called The Scarecrow Argument. Build him up then knock him down...

If CA only needs you to have a good aim, then how the fuk do I do well in it, cos my aim is pretty dismal.

I notice you dont mention teamplay in your list.


Here's a parady of Blades logic, by reducto absurdum (go look it up )

They are all different skills, but what I'm talking about is the basic skills which apply to ALL first person shoot em ups from doom to quake3, which are:

1) To be able to aim accuratly at high speeds
(the higher the better)

2) To be able to rocketjump at will as often as you like around the place like a total loon (including not killing yourself)which rewards you with 2 things, one is that the enemy gets less frags (harder to hit) and two that you are higher then they are which gives you the advantage you deserve over your enemy (and a really pretty view too)

3) A general supply of everything so that you cant be beaten by idiotic weapons running. This allows your true skill to show through since you are both equally armed and have equal health.

Those are the 3 basic elements in all the games we are talking about and will more
than likely remain the 3 basic elements of games to come, games of this type of
course. If a game "Levels out game play" by reducing in any way the skills needed in
any of those 3 I listed then the end result will NOT SHOW the true basic skill levels of
players. Sorry Blade but War and Duels ruins basic requirement no.3 and in our case kinda f*cks up no.2 too.

Love
DeVore.

Shiminay

I couldn't be ar$ed reading all that, but I'll add my bit...

RARRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!

---

All the best,

Dav
@B^)

Creeper

People who play Quake2 are people who couldn't handle Quake1.
People who are good at Quake1 can beat Quake2 players at their own game (allowing time for adjustment). Simply because Quake is faster.
Now let the muppets be quiet.

juNkie

Creeper u fukin a$shole. First off, I wasn't fukin BORN when Q1 came out so I NEVER played it! And I doubht any of the other Q2ers did either.

Yet again just like the rest of the Q1 muppetry, if u wanna fukin TRY and back up your words then fukin do so and PLAY ME, or else shut daa fuk up u lame ass b!tch.

who do u luv.....

juNk laa

Koopa

Dev, i dont mind CA, so long as teamplay 1 isnt on.. remember, CA doesnt require TP1 to be on, it was a choice made by the majority of irish quakers at the time (whenever i got elected admin on the servers, i always changed it back to TP2, which incidentally also meant that we didnt suffer from "spam")

Original CA(which we played in trinity) has each person start on 200RA, 100H (not 350h, which takes longer to kill), and tp 2 (ie. you can kill teammates, and you can kill yourself)
it was directly based on Rocket arena.
That sort of CA WILL improve your aim.. and tactics(not war tactics, just mid-scrap tactics)

when ppl who play CA the way its played now play on LAN, they will get shafted EVERY time they rocket jump.
and on top of that, they will look like newbies when they blow themselves up trying to kill an enemy on any server which doesnt have teamplay 1 on (ie. all war servers, and duel servers)
Add that to the no. of ****ed off teammates who have been shot by you because youre used to tp1 on...

Blade

Dev wrote:

1. Make up some dubious "required skills".

are these not the basic skills required for doom right up to quake3? I didn't make them up dev, maybe you haven't noticed yet but the rest of us have.

2. Avoid any discussion as to whether these "skills" really ARE required. Dont even acknowledge that you are plucking them from thin air and they are solely your opinions.

Ok so lets just not bother with even knowing where the health boxes are on the map, sure who needs health in a war when your an arena player. Lets just get used to rocket jumping till the cows come home sure we can hardly hurt ourselves in a war can we??? lets just fire anywhere and spam corners hoping we don't hurt any of our own team.

If CA only needs you to have a good aim, then how the fuk do I do well in it, cos my aim is pretty dismal.

Cause your an lpb an usually end up being the only one on the server? no well apart from that you are good at it, but that doesn't help u for wars.

I notice you dont mention teamplay in your list.

Because I was talking about the 3 basic elements in all 3d first person games which doesn't nessecerily involve a team, a 1 on 1 for example?

Blade

P.S. U can say all you want dev but 95% of the ppl here will agree with me that CA is just a fun game and for muppets

DeVore

So there you have it folks, unless you play one specific game, (in fact one or two mods only for that specific game) with *specific* settings, you are a muppet.

Well, just call me kermit!

DeVore.

WhiteWashMan

absolutely amazing.
this starts of with blade takin the mick and givin us a bit of an ol discussion, and it ends up as a full scale conflict on that age old question....... is CA a muppet game and war better an blah blah blah blah blah.

can you ppl not get so hot under the collar.
i cant believe that after this long yis would learn to live with these differences of opinions. no-one really gives a toss what any of yis think and to be honest, yis are only makin yerselves look silly.

oh, and another thing. i play q1 but i still prefer q2. why? because its what i know best. i started with it. i know most of the consol commands that make playing more tweakable, i know the levels and i know the ppl i play against. why dont i play q1 over the net? coz i dont know any consol commands to make the game more enjoyable (although itd prolly be cheatin if i did do something like +mlook), i dont know the levels, i know very few of you q1ers personally. oh, and rocket jumping is a lot harder in q1 now, would yis ever fuk of and argue somewhere else.
and dev, you should know better
whitewash

you will also notice a distinct lack of smileys indicating that there isnt any humour in this post

shank

CREEPER - that was probably one of the most idiotic posts I have read on this board, u truly are a gimp.

Also note the lack of smileys u bit(h

DOH!

---

shank1@usa.net
q2n.quake.ie

Kegser

Okay close this thread already this is getting annoying.


[Note: This message has been edited by Cloud]

LegacyUser

I just had a great idea! Okay, I've just spent since 6 o'clock trying to reopen this thread (no such function in the UBB): vi-ing stupid little message files and taking out X'es, trying to make people's rants fit onto one line (or else the UBB just won't read it), transferring files from Unix to Windows to fix with other editors and FTPing them back again, reindexing the threads to reload the fixed messages, and when it didn't work, doing it all again and again and again.

And my idea?

Maybe if I reopen this thread we can kill this Q1 vs. Q2 for once and for all.

How long can it go on I ask?

SheroN

Creepr for that post i should kill and rape your dog..in that other...kill...rape.......
........................;p

Scarab

Creepers post is actually the truest post up here.

Kegser

Well Scarab, you would think that being a little tosser yourself like.

Youse should wake up and smell the bull you're posting on these boards because it's beginning to really stink.

If youse have your own personal opinions about whether you like the game or not, that's fine.

What you shouldn't be doing is saying all the crap about how you don't need skill to play Quake 2.

Of course you need skill you moron. It is true that if you have played Quake 1 it's not that hard to get into it and good at it if you're already good at quake 1. Why? Because it's a sequel, it's essentially the same thing with a few major and minor tweaks to it.

If you have the skill already in Quake 1, if you can aim and essentially kill opponents, then of course you will be able to play Quake 2 fairly well. Why? Because they are both games based on hand-eye coordination, quick reflexes and mental responses. An in-depth knowledge of the basic tactics and strategies and maps and you should be away.

One thing I hate is this **** Quake 2 is getting from the Quake 1 players. It's none of their business in the first place. Us Quake 2 players for the most part keep our noses out of Quake 1 inless we actually play the game, and always seem to be defending ourselves to the larger Quake 1 Community.

Basically I'm tired of this crap, and hopefully everyone will agree that people have their own personal views and preferences, and that other people should leave them be.

If you disagree, you are one major tosser and we won't listen to your ****e. The only reason I am even bothering to respond is that respected people like Blade and DeVore have posted to the board in the first place, and I think they need to know STOP IT.

Thank you for your cooperation on this matter, and you're not getting a smiling because this is serious. Well maybe an angry smiley if I could find it. >:|

Kevin O'Regan,
aka Kegser.