Turn Interview Clarifications...

SimonMaher

Hello all,

Fair few people asking questions about this one, so heres the story! Turn were interviewed by the excellent Entertainment Ireland in July and were asked a question about their reaction to the (temporary) closure of Phantom FM.

Ollie gave this answer:

O: I think it's terrible for bands like us. They're a big part of what we do and they help get our music out to people who like our music. It's a tough one. At the same time, they need to get a proper license. Phantom FM have to apply to the radio board every year to try to get their license. They're never going to give them a license 'cause Phantom are already breaking the radio laws by being on air. This could turn out to be a blessing in disguise. I think they need to go off the air, realign themselves, get a new name and put together a proper business plan. I met one of the guys who works for the radio board and he said Phantom are never going to get a license if they continue break the radio laws. You don't get rewarded for stuff like that. If that's true and they can stay off air for a while, get their act together and come back, maybe they can get a license.

We contacted Entertainment Ireland and they offered to publish the following clarifications for us:

Obviously we would agree with the first bit about what we do and that we need to get a proper licence, goes without saying. However, from there on it's flawed.

No, Phantom FM don't have to apply to the radio board to get their licence. There have been two licencing rounds since Phantom FM came on air in 1998 (in 1999 and 2001) and Phantom FM have applied and been shortlisted on both occasions. On the most recent occasion we lost out by two votes to Dublin's Country.

'They're never going to give them a licence cause phantom are already breaking the licencing laws'....That is not true at all. The BCI (Broadcasting Commission of Ireland) have publically stated that this is not the case and that so long as unlicenced operators are off air at the time of their application, then this will not be an issue. And we have not found it to be one in the past.

'I think they need to go off the air, realign themselves, get a new name....'. Ok, this bit is just his opionion but its nonsense. The 'alignment' or name of the station are of no negative consequence. To bring it to a business level, the 'brand' of Phantom is an established one with positive attitudes from both the listener and commercial sides.

'I met one of the guys who works for the "radio board" and he says Phantom are never going to get a licence if they continue to break the radio laws....'. This comment obviously didnt come from a member of the Commission itself (the people who actually vote on decisions/licence awards) as they are instructed not to discuss their views on applicants in public. So, presumably this is some bloke who might be a clerk in the BCI
office giving his own opinion and should be treated as such.

'You dont get rewarded for stuff like that'...Absolute nonsense, most of the current staff and management of local and national radio in Ireland come from a 'pirate' backround.

I'm just pointing this stuff out because I really would like it not to be accepted as gospel, information which is clearly false and misleading and may give people the wrong impression about how the licencing process works and our relationship with the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland.


Sorry for the long post, but it should clarify some fairly important points for a lot of people who are curious about our situation.

Regards,

Pete Reed
Phantom FM

Interview URL: http://www.entertainmentireland.ie/interviews/archive/turn/turn.asp

PiE

Take that Ollie.

mingus

1

SimonMaher

Jaysus Mingus youre cranky today...

I never claimed to be an authority on anything, let alone everything. I will make clarifications however when they are required, simple as that.

Course people can criticize Phantom constructively and regularly do. But that criticism shouldnt be based on a flawed knowledge of the actual facts wouldnt you agree?

And Im sorry you dont like Phantom or its presenters. Thats a shame, but us arguing for the choice to be there is also a choice for you to tune elsewhere.

And yes, im a far bigger asshole than Ollie. I mean, like duh!

Regards,

Pete Reed
Phantom FM

mingus

yes and mr cole couldn't construct criticism if it came in duplo lego sets

tiggertigger

At the risk of sounding like a "lick ass", mingus...
I do believe that this messageboard is called
the PhantomFM Messageboard, is used as the
official phantomfm forum and is accessible from a link
on their www.phantomfm.com address.
Given all of the above, and the fact that it's used
by phantom listeners to discuss the music played
on phantom and to discuss the predicament of the
station itself...
how can it be considered wrong to discuss the
latest developments pertaining to Phantom?

I'm at a complete loss.
But then I never understood jazz.

mingus

its highly unprofessional to discuss business openly on the internet is what I said. and its also a little sad to dwell upon and reveal publicly how many votes you may have lost by

SimonMaher

Mingus,

All the information above is publically available and all has been either discussed on the messageboard before or made public in the media.

This board, as tiggertigger says allows listeners and ourselves to discuss matters pertaining to Phantom. Obviously, no commercially sensitive information would be published, but this is a response to a publication using publically available information. This also applies to our regular email newsletters, the Phantom FM chatroom and trying to answer peoples questions in the street! Theres a lot we can't say, but the information we can pass on, we are always happy to. Mutual respect between interested listeners and radio station etc.

Regards,

Pete Reed
Phantom FM

BrianD

Mingus! Discussing "business" on the Internet?? I don't see any mention of business transactions or arrangements in any of the above post. All of the comments refer to opinions about public bodies and their actions. There is nothing private. The information about the number of votes was obtained by another party under the Freedom of Information Act and made public.

Ollie Cole was making a public statement about a public process that was in need of some clarification and correction. There was no business being discussed.

Funny how 2FM/Today FM/Spin FM have been snatching up those "unprofessional DJs" you refer to!

mingus

2

Sandi

As BrianD already stated, there was NO BUSINESS DISCUSSED on this board.
Granted, some of Phantom's DJs leave a lot to be desired but some of the really good ones have moved to commercial stations where because they are considered good enough to be called "professional". Have you listened to Near FM? The so-called DJs are the worst I've ever heard. They haven't a clue! I couldn't believe it! My friends were doing an interview and I was listening only to hear the worst act of unprofessionalism I've ever come across in a licensed station. How they have a license is beyond me. But that's beside the point.
...you silly person.

SimonMaher

Mingus,

For someone who obviously doesn't like Phantom, I have to ask why you're spending hours posting on our message board?

Explain the in-house attitude?

Explain how the presenters (either the ones at Phantom or those now on 2FM, Today FM, FM 104, Spin FM etc) are unprofessional and how the programme directors of all the above stations have got it so wrong?

Explain the us versus them mentality?

Its all just a bit vague and sweeping isn't it Mingus? :rolleyes:

Regards,

Pete Reed
Phantom FM

rueyn

I think Phantom has every right to talk about their "business" here because, yes, it's a Phantom board, but also because the public have been so heavily involved in the pleas to the BCI. If Pete didn't keep us informed, then how would we know what was going on?

That being said, someone needs to give that guy from Turn a swift kick in the a$$.

-A.

mingus

near fm is a community station, licenses are much easier to get for community stations.......

i think the below qualifies as business being discussed on the internet, in my opinion anyway............




..... On the most recent occasion we lost out by two votes to Dublin's Country.

......That is not true at all. The BCI (Broadcasting Commission of Ireland) have publically stated that this is not the case and that so long as unlicenced operators are off air at the time of their application, then this will not be an issue. And we have not found it to be one in the past.

........To bring it to a business level, the 'brand' of Phantom is an established one with positive attitudes from both the listener and commercial sides.

rueyn

if all of those points Pete made are public knowledge ("publically stated", et cetera), then why does them talking about it here, on their own board, matter?



-A.

Sandi

Hardly. That's doesn't qualify as official business.

Take a look back at the original post. Ollie Cole said in an INTERVIEW (interviews are for the public) some stuff regarding Phantom that wasn't exactly true. People keeping tabs on how Phantom are doing regarding getting a license would therefore have been slightly misled by Ollie's statements. Pete Reed did the right thing in pointing out what was wrong with Ollie's statements and told us what was actually going on.

You really made a mountain out a mole hill for absolutely nothing.

mingus

3

Sandi

Originally posted by mingus
Explain the in-house attitude?
djs sounding like they are in their bedroom with their mates etc etc etc

Somebody sounding like they're in a bedroom with mates is not an "attitude". Look up attitude in the dictionary.
Me sounding like I'm in a pub with mates doesn't mean I have an attitude.

Dear me!

You also said you discuss many subjects you're interested in. You've got a grand total of 7 posts so far on boards.ie, 6 of which have been posted right here!

SimonMaher

Right Mingus,

This is my last post on this one...its gone so far off topic that Im going to can this thread (bar the clarifications) later. If ye want another thread discussing the merits or otherwise of Phantom then you can start another one, and I will happily discuss it with you there.

Your points about not liking Phantom DJs/programme directors/broadcasters in general of other radio stations are purely your personal opinions and hey, I obviously don't agree but thats just the way of the world.

Main point I have to pull you up on though is classing our audience as "idiots". Such sweeping generalised insulting from a point of obvious ignorance to Phantoms situation is nothing short of pathetic Mingus. You really should withdraw that one.

We don't cry at the BCI's doorstep as you say. We have a good working relationship with the Commission and would be hopeful that with work, we will squeeze a licence out of them some day soon.

When it comes to Phantom mingus, you don't know what youre talking about, you don't know the dealings we have, you don't know the relationship we have with our listeners, you don't know the relationships we have with sponsors/patrons etc. The reason for the clarifications was to give people like yourself, and indeed Ollie an impression of what really is going on so that if you do choose to comment, at least you can do so from a point of view of slightly less ignorance.

Regards,

Pete Reed
Phantom FM

mingus

being branded with the same iron as cole is enough shame for me for one day (sob)

back to front

oh my god, Mingus... oh dear...

You would'nt write for The Slate perhaps? Or be that cruel hearted, triple faced, spanish bass player who has assumed many unwelcome guises on this board would u?

I bet Pete even knows you to see, and dread to think.. talk to. But thats the great thing about this place. You can vent all your evil assshole energy without anyone fiinding out who you are....

except me offcourse

roxy

Originally posted by Sandi
Have you listened to Near FM? The so-called DJs are the worst I've ever heard. They haven't a clue! I couldn't believe it! My friends were doing an interview and I was listening only to hear the worst act of unprofessionalism I've ever come across in a licensed station. How they have a license is beyond me.

***this isn't relevant to the thread as such but I'm livid and I have to say this!!**

Sandi, this is your opinion and that's fine.

But allow me to let you in on a few facts about the station which you clearly don't have a clue about.

All the presenters are volunteers. No one gets a cent for doing any of it. They are old people, young people, men, women, Irish, Spanish, Kenyan, French, who present shows in their spare time. The point of any community station is to provide information to local people, to involve local people in broadcasting and be an aid in education in various ways (among other things).

The presenters do not attend DJ school, they are given a 10 week course where they learn all aspects of broadcasting from information-gathering to libel law and everything in between.

They present shows on subjects that interest them be it a certain type of music, history, human rights, local sport. The beauty is that presenters can put out a shows that satisfy niche-interests, and do with a genuine passion.

So of course it's gonna sound unprofessional sometimes BECAUSE THE PRESENTERS AREN'T PROFESSIONALS!!
They're completely unprofessional!

They do an hour show and then go off and go to work the next day or go home and mind the grandkids or whatever. They're ordinary people. But for the most part, the presenters do a great job. I wouldn't listen to NEAR fm all day because it's not that type of station. I wouldn't listen to any community station all day. However, I would have a lot of respect for the work they do within the community and I would have the sense to discern between different types of station and judge them accordingly.


Community stations aren't for profit. They basically survive hand-to-mouth, as nature intended really. And no they generally don't sound as "good" (I have trouble using that word) as other paid DJs on commercial stations. It's not wrong, it's just the way it is.


As well as this, community stations are an extremely effective means for people to find their feet in radio broadcasting.

Two recent examples: A guy called Bernard has with the station since he was 16 (he's 21 now). He was involved in sports programmes and has a brilliant live football commentator for a few years (NEAR fm broadcasts Shels matches live). Now he works in FM104 as a sports newsreader. He's still involved in NEAR fm. he obviously doesn't want to leave! But he's clearly professional enough!

Two guys Joe and Keith started off doing a comes show on NEAR fm. They then moved to Phantom and are now on Spin.

There are more, but that's not to say there aren't other good presenters on the station who haven't defected!



But how dare you say NEAR fm shouldn't have a licence. Really, how dare you. What an extremely ignorant thing to say.

F

back to front

Oh dear... sandi, sandi. You got the hammer there....


Near FM are an honest and hardworking station.
The kind of shiiite a lot of people on the northside of town are subjected to with mainstream radio!! NearFM is the only station to hear honest DJ's play honest music and banter as if they were sitting across from you at the kitchen table. That's just how their audience like it. The precious few who recognise it's honesty, sincerity and open minded, cultural attitude. Most importantly it's a station for the whole family, not just indie 'clued in' students.

Dont be so hard on them Sandi. They do deserve a licence, for simply keeping honesty alive on the airwaves, in an area of town where the people need it, more than anywhere else.


We still love you

Sandi

Right, the pair of you. That was really ****in' harsh. All I said was that the 2 djs I heard were crap (one in particular). The music they played was fine but they didn't appear to know much about what they were playing. A few people have agreed with me.
I know it's a community station I know they don't get paid, so Roxy, don't go assuming I know nothing.

Ok, fair enough, my comment about you not deserving a licence was a bit much but I stand by my comment that the djs I happen to hear that afternoon appeared to be clueless. I've heard a lot of "unprofessional" djs and they're a damn site better than this pair! It was only one show, maybe they were having a bad day and I'm not knocking any other djs or the quality of community radio / pirate radio djs (Roxy it appears I've hit a nerve with you especially!)

And also, you're assuming that I think commercial radio djs are good! Some are, but some are rubbish and are kicked in the ass by some pirate djs that I've heard.

Don't shoot your mouth off at me like that, especially on a public forum. If you've got beef with me then PM me or e-mail me. You made some assumptions about me that weren't true and I'm not happy about it.

roxy

Sandi,

My beef wasn't withe the fact that you thought the presenters were awful - I'm sure I would've agreed with you had I heard the show you heard. I was making the point that people on the station are extremely ordinary folk and you have to make allowances.

My beef was with the fact that you think we shouldn't have a licence!! It's a crazy thing to listen to a few minutes of a station that's been on air for 8 years legally, one which has been built up from nothing by a few people with a sincere interest in the good of their community, and then declare we shouldn't have a licence!

We do deserve the licence we have. More than other stations, frankly.


And for goodness sake, "don't shoot your mouth off like that at me, especially on a public forum??" I've been misinformed - I thought that's what forums were for?! If we all kept our opinions private then the message board would be a fairly barren place. It would just be wall-to-wall gig plugging.

No hard feelings Sandi. I just really couldn't ignore your comment. It was very unfair. I hope people can see both sides of the coin now.

Regards

F

Sandi

I think you've still got me slightly wrong but I'm not gonna bother anymore.

eddiesheridan

Why are certain posts mingus made just numbers?
Why not pull your own replies too?
If I express an opinion that pete reed or another moderator does not like, will I be censored too?
Are his comments pulled because they are slanderous?
Is mingus not entitled to express his own opinion on this forum?

Giblet

Originally posted by eddiesheridan
Why are certain posts mingus made just numbers?
Why not pull your own replies too?
If I express an opinion that pete reed or another moderator does not like, will I be censored too?
Are his comments pulled because they are slanderous?
Is mingus not entitled to express his own opinion on this forum?

FITE TEH POWAH!

Or, read his posts carefully, and see that he edited them himself.

eddiesheridan

Thanks for the clarification.

SimonMaher

Eddie,

I think you meant to say that you are sorry for insinuating that Mingus' postings were edited for expressing an opinion, that I as moderator didnt like.

On the greater thread, Im going to can the various off topic stuff later on and just leave up the published clarifications to the Turn interview.

Discussions regarding Phantom etc can be stuck into other threads which as Ive said Im more than happy to discuss.

And other issues can be discussed between the relevant people via PMs.

Regards,

Pete Reed
Phantom FM

acquiescefc

What a great thread.


I think we should have a phantom phight night

Get in the ring mother trucker.


I would just like to stick up for Ollie anyway, I think he was just saying that phantom is the best station in dublin (this is true as I have asked everybody in dublin over the weekend) and hes slightly fuct up on a couple of tiddly indiscrepancies which have been put right my Mixmaster pete.

Moral of this story ...Phantom will be back as a global entity, like it or not. We have faith, itll be short but sweet, like Jimi was.

2 votes eh...jaysus thats pi$$y

Raggamuffin

Quick points

1. Community stations are great, they sound **** most of the time but sometimes it's were people get ther break. I'm sure Pete Reed Remembers doing a Community slot on west dublin community radio right?

2. I think ollie cole should maybe have kept his mouth shut unless he had an idea of what he was tlaking about. I mean even i know that. Anyway i would'nt like him to speak on my behalf thats for sure.


And as for Brian D's professionalism comments (i think he referenced the people headhunted by the commercial stations).

I think this probabaly showed that Phantom was a bit more mainstream than previously thought. Anyway i'd never switch on 2fm or today fm cept when Xfm goes out of reception range and even then i'd probabaly be playing a cd.

As the saying goes, if you can't beat them join them. Personally, i think, it's all down to money and very little music.

BrianD

Raggamuffin - I don't get the link between professionalism and being mainstream! Being a professional presenter dosn't necessarily mean that you take a mainstream approach to music or broadcasting. Just a minor detail!

This debate has gone slightly off topic. However since it is still here - Personally, I believe NEAR FM is the only worthwhile community station that fulfills its remit and actually provides a full day of broadcasting. It should be a shining light to the other community stations who occupy valuable FM frequencies in the city. Community radio in Ireland is in need of essential overhaul and a rethink of its ethos and become more progressive and provocative (not neccesarily in a political sense). In Ireland, community radio is "nice radio for nice people" and lacks any depth of opinion or programming. Programming is very much rooted in the past - Reithian ethics of "Inform, Educate and Entertain" without doing either particularly well. . Unfortunately, most of these stations in Dublin spend more time off the air then on. I was particularly impressed with community radio in Australia and perhaps the relevant bodies should take some inspiration from there.

roxy

And I don't think AMARC going to the wall is going to do any favours in terms of trying to unify or at least standardise community radio throughout europe though!

Oh wait I just noticed you said Australia, not Austria!...:(

My point still stands though.

I agree with your Reithian comment Brian. I can only speak for NEAR fm when i say that we do try. EG, we're broadcasting a Read Write Now series at the moment. I haven't actually heard it though to see how it would work on the radio!

Community radio does need a kick in the ass but frankly it's a bit like rural Ireland - it's always gonna be hicky. It'll never be sound any way snazzy. I think it's ingrained. it's a tough one. The management are smart people though. It's not like they don't know how it sounds sometimes. I know an awful lot of people really appreciate community radio though. And that's why it's worthwhile.

Kittykitty

Pete

I think you slagging off Ollie is very wrong. I am a Turn fan and anyone else is will know that Ollie and gang are huge supporters of Phantom.
Turn always included a Phantom logo on all there sold out music center show posters and always bigged them up in Hotpress and credits on there releases.
It was through Turn that i found out about Phantom.
If you read the whole interview you will see that Ollie was asked about Phantom and what he thought. He spoke about what he was told by someone else, that is how he formed his opinion, there is nothing wrong with that. He was obviously told that, it is of no benifit to him or the band to put Phantom down and nor would they as they are big Phantom supporters and have been on various Phantom shows many times.

Pete in your second post where you refer to Ollie as an asshole.
That is just plain ****ing stupid and much worse than anything he said.
He was asked a question and how the **** is he supposed to know the actual facts of getting a radio license.

eddiesheridan

Pete all I did was ask a couple of questions that I think needed to be answered. Asking questions insinuate nothing and I expressed no opinion of my own. I have no wish to get embroiled in an argument about this but I wanted to know the score with regards to censorship. I asked the questions , I got the answers.
I know this forum is not a democracy and editing is sometimes needed by either the poster or the moderator and wanted to find out what had happened here.

Cheers
Eddie

SimonMaher

Hello all,

Dont you just love when apart from going way off topic, these threads get out of hand too. Ive wanted to delete it for days but more good stuff just keeps coming up. Let me deal with the bits one by one.

Firstly, Eddie, I was jokin for jaysus sake. Thats why there was a big at the end of the sentence. Youre right the board is not a democracy, and absolutely you have the right to question moderation decisions.

Roxy, Sandi, Brian, Ragamuffin. The community radio debate is a fascinating one and particularly so in this country. Of the Dublin community stations, only Near FM has made any real impact. I have worked in community radio and there are good people out there working in it ("professional" or not) and of course there are people who are rubbish. Question is, where do you draw the line. If someone is rubbish but enthusiastic, do you give them access because of their enthusiasm or do you have the resources to train them? Difficult one, and one which would really be helped by debate within our regulation system. Not a feckin chance of that then!

The professionalism debate is another one again. What qualifies someone to be "professional". Is it vocal style? Knowledge of format? Accessibility to audience? Think it depends on the type of radio to be honest.

KittyKitty, I have to be serious here for a minute. No, I did not slag off Ollie at all. I have great respect for Ollie and for Turn and Phantom and Turn have always enjoyed a very good relationship of mutual support. All I did was corrected some published statements. Just because they were just based on false information he had been given by someone else, doesnt mean that they dont need to be corrected wouldnt you say? If something wrong is published, it should be corrected, regardless of intent or the information it was based on.

And no, I didnt call Ollie an asshole at all! Mingus got rid of a number of his postings and they contained a question asking who was an asshole, me or Ollie. So, I was standing up for the guy! Confusion caused by Mingus' deleted posts there.

Jaysus, now, hope all thats cleared up!

Regards,

Pete Reed
Phantom FM

Engulfophobia_m

i suggested before that we catalogue all record shops in dublin....why dont we do the same with community stations.....

roxy

psychotic joe

no offence to anyone, but this is one seriously depressing thread. all that needless arguin and fightin. relax. feel the love.