IOLBB is total crap

Richard Dower

I am using the EsatBT service in Limerick and i am very disappointed indeed with the quality and level of service i have recived from EsatBT.

I am less then 400 yards away from the DSL exchange here on Roches Street, thus line quality and distance is not the issue.

The issue is quite simply....CONgestion, when i signed up for this product nowhere did i read that it would be a contention ratio system.

I visited this website and found no mention that i had to share the DSL line with 48 other people:

http://register.iol.ie/broadband/index.html

I have made numerous calls to both sales and technical support asking detailed questions about the DSL product being offered for sale, on two separate occasions i asked a member of the sales staff and technical support staff if i would have my own line?...and the reply was yes.

I also asked on different days what EsatBT would guarantee me for minimum download speeds, not a connection speed...the actual speed at which data would be downloaded to my PC.

Speaking from person to person i got a different answer, one lady said 128K and and another guy said 256K.

This is not what i signed up for, do they make it clear to customers that this DSL service is in fact all dependent on how many people are connected to the one DSL line?

They make claims such as this, quote "It is also much faster than conventional Internet Access offering speeds of up to 512K, compared with the conventional 56K available over your normal Internet connection. This means much faster download times, web browsing & improved audio and video streams. It also means you will have near real-time email delivery, regardless of file size.
Depending on your location it could be up to 10 times faster than your current Internet connection."

These claims are not true for this one reason, you only have 512K of bandwidth available to you...but you share that bandwidth with 47 other people. It's 512K shared between 48 people.

That's just crazy and insane, this is NOT what DSL should be about and not why i signed up for, if EsatBT make claims of 512K download speeds then that is what i should get....regardless of how many other are connected to my DSL line.

Right now my speeds are WORSE then 56K modem, it's ok very late at nite...like 2am - 8am etc, but as the day prgresss, and certainly when you get to 6pm - 1am it is almost dead.

It's worse for the fact that no data is being pulled down, web pages are static, at least with 56K the web page would load evetually.

I can't understand how a company can make such wild claims when first hand user experince is very different, and i know that many other EsatBT customers feel the same.

I have sent an email to customer care and still no reply, i am sending another long email today, Europe has enjoyed DSL for many years and many home customers enjoy a 1.1 ratio line.

We as customers should have the same level of service offered to us, i firmly belive i was mislead about this product, nowhere did i read is was all based around a 48.1 contention ratio.

fisty

maybe they're just having teething problems like netsource...?

Richard Dower

Originally posted by fisty
maybe they're just having teething problems like netsource...?

There is a thread here where numerous IOLBB customers are receiving them same circumstance as i am. It's because these DSL lines are contention based.

We should all have our own DSL line, 1.1, like most of Europe has....or at least the contention ratio should be dropped down alot.

bizmark

Yes Iolbb is **** at the mo

No nearly every one in other coutrys have 48:1 ratio,s as well ......If you can blame anyone its Eircom for their short sightedness.......You basicly have around 1 meg of bandwith for 48 people in the exchanged,s (ie you have 2 people on and that,s about all she wrote)

im sure (ie i hope to god) Esat get this fixed like netsource,s did


Btw their are 2 other treads for IOLbb you should have posted in one of them

Richard Dower

Originally posted by bizmark
Yes Iolbb is **** at the mo

No nearly every one in other coutrys have 48:1 ratio,s as well ......If you can blame anyone its Eircom for their short sightedness.......You basicly have around 1 meg of bandwith for 48 people in the exchanged,s (ie you have 2 people on and that,s about all she wrote)

im sure (ie i hope to god) Esat get this fixed like netsource,s did


Btw their are 2 other treads for IOLbb you should have posted in one of them

But you still have a situation of having 48 people sharing 512K bandwidth...this is not acceptable at all. I was told my line was my own.

Unless the person whom i talked to had their head up their ass and didn't have a clue. And please someone...point me to where EsatBT states that these DSL lines are contention based?

bizmark

I was told my line was my own.

might have been talking about your home line m8 ...Their customer care is well known for being well ****

and in all fairness to the 48:1 ratio .It was posted here a while back by utv That to make any kind off money broadband company,s need to have a large number of people on the same line .Imagen upgradeing every single line going into the exchange

Im not sure if it,s in the T&C because to be honest i bearly looked over them in the last 3 week,s

Richard Dower

Originally posted by bizmark
might have been talking about your home line m8 ...Their customer care is well known for being well ****

and in all fairness to the 48:1 ratio .It was posted here a while back by utv That to make any kind off money broadband company,s need to have a large number of people on the same line .Imagen upgradeing every single line going into the exchange

Im not sure if it,s in the T&C because to be honest i bearly looked over them in the last 3 week,s

Make money?...they make money from giving customers a product that is what they claim it to be, as advertsied...not the PR and spin.

The takeup rate for BB is quite high in Ireland and will increase as people become more aware and prices drop. However....people should also be told in explicit detail that these products are shared and they make NO GUARANTEE WHATSOEVER in regards downloads or quality of service.

Thus they should remove claims of downloads speeds of 512K, because they won't guarantee that...so why even make the claim?

bizmark

well (and at this point i have no idea when i turned into a esat PR man)

They dont say "512kbps speed" they say Up to 512kbps.........Also their is no "our speed,s wont drop below 128kbps" on their site

what the customer care tell you is worth jack all m8...

Me and you and around 4 other,s here are in the same boat HOWEVER the same thing is happening to UTV and happened to Netsources .....Im going to give them time 1 or 2 week,s .....However im going to send emails etc to tell them im not takeing 800B/S speed from "broadband".

fisty

Hate to kick you when you're down and so obviously angry but...

Anyone who knows even the slightest bit about broadband knows that its pretty much all contention based.

Europe don't "all own their own lines"...

Maybe you should have researched the product
you were buying before jumping in feet first.

I wouldn't worry about the service level though, It will get better, mine did with eircom, apparantly netsource's did too...

They're a big telco, they do aim for quality of service otherwise they would lose clients to eircom and netsource, I would put it down to teething problems as I doubt if you would understand any explaination esat give you anyway.

bizmark

have to agree with Fisty on that one

i was on here for 2-3 months reading and learning before i got broadband i knew what i was getting myself in for

Esat for all their billing problums etc mostly have good service,s give them time

Richard Dower

Originally posted by bizmark
well (and at this point i have no idea when i turned into a esat PR man)

They dont say "512kbps speed" they say Up to 512kbps.........Also their is no "our speed,s wont drop below 128kbps" on their site

what the customer care tell you is worth jack all m8...

Me and you and around 4 other,s here are in the same boat HOWEVER the same thing is happening to UTV and happened to Netsources .....Im going to give them time 1 or 2 week,s .....However im going to send emails etc to tell them im not takeing 800B/S speed from "broadband".

Well...i will take EsatBT on what is said at the website...if a customer reads "speeds upto 512K" then i am sure that people will expect downloads of 512K stable and contstant.

The service is a scandal, surely they can give each person on the line a minimum bandwidth, meaning we can all have enough for us to just download a damn webpage.

I can't be downloading a page and it taking 30 minutes to load, "broadband"?.....LOL!

Richard Dower

Originally posted by fisty
Hate to kick you when you're down and so obviously angry but...

Anyone who knows even the slightest bit about broadband knows that its pretty much all contention based.

Europe don't "all own their own lines"...

Maybe you should have researched the product
you were buying before jumping in feet first.

I wouldn't worry about the service level though, It will get better, mine did with eircom, apparantly netsource's did too...

They're a big telco, they do aim for quality of service otherwise they would lose clients to eircom and netsource, I would put it down to teething problems as I doubt if you would understand any explaination esat give you anyway.

I read what Esat offered up to me, and their website. I didn't even know about this forum until i did a yahoo search.

Thus i knew nothing about contention ratio until AFTER someone at technical support explained it to me...and this was a day after my DSL was setup, then i went online and read up.

bizmark

if a customer reads "speeds upto 512K" then i am sure that people will expect downloads of 512K stable and contstant.

It doesnt matter what you expect Esat dont say "speed,s of 512kbps no matter the time etc etc" they say UP TO 512kbps.A speed to expect should be around 200 - 340kbps in my mind

The service is a scandal, surely they can give each person on the line a minimum bandwidth, meaning we can all have enough for us to just download a damn webpage.

I agree the service at the mo is crap but so was netsource,s now their fine and their a hell of a lot smaller company

Richard Dower

Originally posted by fisty
Hate to kick you when you're down and so obviously angry but...

Anyone who knows even the slightest bit about broadband knows that its pretty much all contention based.

Europe don't "all own their own lines"...

Maybe you should have researched the product
you were buying before jumping in feet first.

I wouldn't worry about the service level though, It will get better, mine did with eircom, apparantly netsource's did too...

They're a big telco, they do aim for quality of service otherwise they would lose clients to eircom and netsource, I would put it down to teething problems as I doubt if you would understand any explaination esat give you anyway.

I'm fairly computer savvy actually, i've built my own PC...but DSL i never had experince with and simply belived what staff as ESAT WERE TELLING ME.

bizmark

simply belived what staff as ESAT WERE TELLING ME

a quote that took down a few mighty countrys:D

Honestly NEVER bleave Esat customer care it,s just l stupid

Richard Dower

Originally posted by bizmark
It doesnt matter what you expect Esat dont say "speed,s of 512kbps no matter the time etc etc" they say UP TO 512kbps.A speed to expect should be around 200 - 340kbps in my mind

But they say speeds of upto 512K...that should be the same 24/7, not at 8am in the morning. They made the claim which is what they are selling the product on.

Thus a customer should expect that claim to be realised whenever they connect.

If they can't guarantee 512K they should have not made the claim and totally remove it, or they should tell people that they will not guarantee a customer anything about anything, thus they should say Esat can't guarantee anything in regards claims of 512K download as it all depends on the time of day and how many others are using the line at the same time as you.

That's fair isn't it?...that is being honest with the customer and reflecting real world situations with DSL and how they have implemented the service.

I agree the service at the mo is crap but so was netsource,s now their fine and their a hell of a lot smaller company

Richard Dower

Originally posted by bizmark
It doesnt matter what you expect Esat dont say "speed,s of 512kbps no matter the time etc etc" they say UP TO 512kbps.A speed to expect should be around 200 - 340kbps in my mind



I agree the service at the mo is crap but so was netsource,s now their fine and their a hell of a lot smaller company

Right...meaning they have less customers on each DSL line at the same time, less people = less congestion. Even if ONE person is using the same line as you your downlaod speed is cut in half.

Richard Dower

Originally posted by bizmark
a quote that took down a few mighty countrys:D

Honestly NEVER bleave Esat customer care it,s just l stupid

And i still have ****ed up bandwidth......:(

bizmark

Right...meaning they have less customers on each DSL line at the same time, less people = less congestion. Even if ONE person is using the same line as you your downlaod speed is cut in half.

Look im sure you angry and all but im not explaning this again

ALL countrys have around a 48:1 ratio its not going to change what is needed is more bandwith at the exchange..... Netsource,s got more bandwith and it solved their problum,s

The problum here is you know next to notting about ADSL technology and are seeing things from a ideal view point "we should all have out own lines etc" Its not going to happen trust me

We need to give them some time to fix the problum

---

EDIT

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im no expert either btw unless you havent notices lol ...I just know what im read here

fisty

I'm still 100% sure that once esat resolve their network bottlenecks your service will get better.

Put it down to experience, next time you're gonna buy something ask more questions or research the technology first yourself, now that you have broadband, it should be much easier:)

Richard Dower

Originally posted by bizmark
Look im sure you angry and all but im not explaning this again

ALL countrys have around a 48:1 ratio its not going to change what is needed is more bandwith at the exchange..... Netsource,s got more bandwith and it solved their problum,s

The problum here is you know next to notting about ADSL technology and are seeing things from a ideal view point "we should all have out own lines etc" Its not going to happen trust me

We need to give them some time to fix the problum

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EDIT

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im no expert either btw unless you havent notices lol ...I just know what im read here

And how will more bandwidth solve the problem?...you will still have 48 people sharing 512K bandwidth. IF 48 people were sharing an 8MB line then that would improve things.

But let's get real here, Eircom own the hardware and network, they are only interested in money and as a result of this there is no way they would offer more bandwidth to customers.

Thus hoping that they will offer more bandwidth seems to be mute to the central point of it being contention based and 48 people on one 512K line.

btw....i was downloading right now on a Microsoft server...i got my FULL 512K downstream, and the reason for this is nobody else is using my line at the moment.

fisty

just a side note...
have you any idea what it would cost for us all to have "our own lines"

lol.

Richard Dower

Originally posted by fisty
I'm still 100% sure that once esat resolve their network bottlenecks your service will get better.

Put it down to experience, next time you're gonna buy something ask more questions or research the technology first yourself, now that you have broadband, it should be much easier:)

I understand the technology for the most part now, but this is not what East told me the product would be. I knew enough to ask if i would have my own line, i knew enough to ask what guaranteed download speed Esat would offer me.

Richard Dower

Originally posted by fisty
just a side note...
have you any idea what it would cost for us all to have "our own lines"

lol.

Dosen't matter to me what it would cost, i asked Esat staff if i would have my own line, that's want i want. Or they can move me over to the 20.1 line.

bizmark

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Bands head agains wall

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osen't matter to me what it would cost, i asked Esat staff if i would have my own line, that's want i want. Or they can move me over to the 20.1 line.

no they wont move you .Get real man to have 1 line per person would cost WAY to much. Unless you have 90 euro a month to wast and live in range of one on the 45 (i think) Business enabled exchanges you stuck


And Esat can buy more bandwith all it take,s is money something esat arent short off

Richard Dower

Originally posted by fisty
just a side note...
have you any idea what it would cost for us all to have "our own lines"

lol.

Well i just want EsatBT to be honest with customers and explain to them what is involved, that's all. I want people to understand what kind of product is on offer.

They should be told you share a maximum of 512K of bandwidth per DSL line. Each DSL line has 48 customers and they all share that same line. EsatBT should state that while 512K download speeds are possible they will under NO circumstance ever once guarantee this as fact.

They should explain that if all 48 customers are online at the same time that download speeds will be non existant, they should tell people this stuff and explain to them that at no time can they ever once guarantee anything in regards claims made on leaflets or websites.

And if Esat won't...i will do my best to inform others of these facts.

Richard Dower

Originally posted by bizmark

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Bands head agains wall

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no they wont move you .Get real man to have 1 line per person would cost WAY to much. Unless you have 90 euro a month to wast and live in range of one on the 45 (i think) Business enabled exchanges you stuck


And Esat can buy more bandwith all it take,s is money something esat arent short off

I'm saying this...i understand the limitations of the DSL service and how the hardware is setup. This is a point of pronciple in regards how EsatBT sell their products and hat claims they make.

If i am told a product will do this or that for me...then i expect as much when i use it, that's reasonable no?

And when it does not do that or it turns out someone screwed up and didn't know what they were talking about then though, not my problem...i was sold on what i was told.

And i should receive what i was sold on, not what i am getting now. I know i won't get anything from Esat, but i surely want out of my CONtract.

bizmark

EsatBT should state that while 512K download speeds are possible they will under NO circumstance ever once guarantee this as fact.

-Sigh- They do they say UP TO 512kbps NOTTING else

They should explain that if all 48 customers are online at the same time that download speeds will be non existant,

True but then again this could be notting but a wide spread network problum ...Or something their working on

But more than likely they all sat around and said "you know if we tell people they will only get 8b/s we wont sell our product!" and though to themself it wasnt worth it

And if Esat won't...i will do my best to inform others of these facts.

Thats what this board is for

fisty

yes that is reasonable, but esat aren't going to change for you.

however, consumer rights say that you can get your money back within the first 30 days if the service/product isn't what you expected, so maybe thats the route to try.

get your money back and lay your own fibre

Richard Dower

Originally posted by bizmark
-Sigh- They do they say UP TO 512kbps NOTTING else

MISLEADING...it just is, a Joe Bloggs reading this can quite easily think they will get 512K at anytime no matterr what...just like i did.

I am saying they shoudl explain in alot more detail what to expect, saying what they say is just not right.



True but then again this could be notting but a wide spread network problum ...Or something their working on

But more than likely they all sat around and said "you know if we tell people they will only get 8b/s we wont sell our product!" and though to themself it wasnt worth it

Exactly....they wanted to create spin and PR, lies in essence. Real world use of the DSL service is very different to some spin doctor telling customers how good the DSL product is.





Thats what this board is for

bizmark

If i am told a product will do this or that for me...then i expect as much when i use it, that's reasonable no?

Yes but what im trying to get through to you as well is that this is technology it doesnt work perfectly all the time give them time like the netsource,s customer,s did worked out well for them

And pritty much anything that come,s out of custumer care is bull

fisty

Originally posted by bizmark
-Sigh- They do they say UP TO 512kbps NOTTING else

Esats crack team of commercial lawyers are no match for his name calling and stupidity:eek:

Richard Dower

Originally posted by fisty
yes that is reasonable, but esat aren't going to change for you.

however, consumer rights say that you can get your money back within the first 30 days if the service/product isn't what you expected, so maybe thats the route to try.

get your money back and lay your own fibre

LOL...damn right, i should buy my own line and have a 2MB downstream with a 1MB upstream. I know guys in Holland and Spain who have such things and the line is not shared.

Yes it's more expensive, but they at least have the option.

bizmark

remember to unquote m8

MISLEADING...it just is, a Joe Bloggs reading this can quite easily think they will get 512K at anytime no matterr what...just like i did

not really it doesnt say 512KBPS at anytime it says UP TO i bet a shinny euro that would stand in court

Exactly....they wanted to create spin and PR, lies in essence. Real world use of the DSL service is very different to some spin doctor telling customers how good the DSL product is

hmm true

Richard Dower

Originally posted by bizmark
remember to unquote m8




not really it doesnt say 512KBPS at anytime it says UP TO i bet a shinny euro that would stand in court



hmm true

Anyways...sorry for being an ass. I simply had to vent. This is Richard Dower here reporting from Limerick. Nice to meet you all.

Ebonyks

Would ya think customer service would be able to tell me my own contention ratio?


Also anyone else on Eircon, Netsource or IOLBB, whats your average downstream?


questions questions......

bizmark

Esats crack team of commercial lawyers are no match for his name calling and stupidity

no one is name calling (other that you fisty)

fisty

spin doctors?
now you're just talking ****e,
I give up.

Richard Dower

Originally posted by Ebonyks
Would ya think customer service would be able to tell me my own contention ratio?


Also anyone else on Eircon, Netsource or IOLBB, whats your average downstream?


questions questions......

It depends on who you talk to a customer service, most of them are drunk or doing their nails. Some actually know what they are talking about.

From what i understand Eircom are on a 256.1 contention ratio on the home DSL, correct me if i am wrong.

Esat offer 48.1, the business package offers 20.1, while Eircom business offers 48.1

The lowest contention i have seen is 8.1, god we could only dream of that.

Richard Dower

Originally posted by fisty
spin doctors?
now you're just talking ****e,
I give up.

Come on...you read that press release and it smells, to my mind they are blowing smoke up customers ass. READ what loads of people have said about EsatBT....it ain't me.

bizmark

Eircom are on a 256.1 contention ratio

i think their home is 48:1 m8......... To have it 256:1 would be insane

fisty

From what i understand Eircom are on a 256.1 contention ratio on the home DSL, correct me if i am wrong.

You're wrong, and considering you knew absolutely nothing about how dsl worked up until a few hours ago, maybe you should educate yourself on such matters before advising
head-the-ball.

anyway, enough... nighty night...

Richard Dower

Originally posted by fisty
You're wrong, and considering you knew absolutely nothing about how dsl worked up until a few hours ago, maybe you should educate yourself on such matters before advising
head-the-ball.

anyway, enough... nighty night...

I did say correct me if i am wrong, i belive i read this at the Esat website.

Ebonyks

So you're saying that my ratio will always be 48:1 even if I'm the only one in my area using service (unrealistic but ya know...)

Probably misunderstanding

f*** is that the time?


Also, know anywhere online I can find out where exchanges are, who they are shared by. Or is that not supposed to be public knowledge.

bizmark

So you're saying that my ratio will always be 48:1 even if I'm the only one in my area using service

The ratio is the amount of people that CAN be on the line at the same time .....Less people more bandwith.......More people less bandwith

UbahOne

Richard, Obviously your not too happy. So what do you intend to do about it? Are staying on it for the next 12 months? Are you going to cancel? Are you moving to netsource?

*Im still awaiting my email from the complaint officer and tech support...*

Dustaz

Originally posted by Richard Dower
It depends on who you talk to a customer service, most of them are drunk or doing their nails. Some actually know what they are talking about.

Unlike your self.


A quick note about Contention ratios. Nearly all consumer internet services are contended. 56k dialup, ISDN, DSL - even the websites you are downloading are contended. Its the way the internet works.


Your line is 48:1 . You are not sharing with 48 other people all the time, i am betting that in limerick there isnt even anywhere near 48 people signed up to IOL's service yet.

Even if there were, the whole idea of contention is that not everyone will be using their line at the same time. Think about your usage of the internet. You call up a webpage and read it. You are not using your line while you read. Then you call up another page and that takes about 2 seconds (on normal dsl) to load. You have just used your line for 2 seconds. If you were sharing with someone at that time they would not have even noticed that.

The problems you are experiencing are not down to contention, i suspect it is down to backhaul bandwith coming out of the exchange (could be wrong tho).


FYI here are the contention ratios in use in Ireland:

48:1 - All forms of Eircom RADSL and its resellers (Netsource, UTV and Iol)

25:1 - Eircom ADSL (..and netsource business) and Esat ADSL (..they resell to another crowd too).

8:1 is one of the wireless companies, either IBB or IrishWISP.

No company offers 256:1 broadband - you made that up.

the only way to get 'your own line' is to get a Leased Line from either eircom or esat. They come in different flavours but im sure youll be agree that €11k for 256k (iirc) isnt quite in your ballpark.

Finally, Look up the following term " Spam "

eth0_

Originally posted by Richard Dower
Dosen't matter to me what it would cost, i asked Esat staff if i would have my own line, that's want i want. Or they can move me over to the 20.1 line.

baaaahahahahahahahahah!
I'm sure they will, if you pay the 100 euro odd monthly sub!
There's no mention of guaranteed download speed in relation to iolbb, and no one in sales would have told you you'd get your own line....it's shared with 48 other dsl users, be they netsource, eircom radsl or utv.

BKtje

Your line is your own till it reaches the exchange. When your line reaches the exchange you and 47 other people are all mixed together into one 2mb (residential i think and 8mb for a 24:1 business?) line. This 2mb line is then shared between the 48 people. This is where the problem lies. The 48 person contention ratio was also decided by Eircom, the only sollution to this would be for Esat to purchase extra bandwidth (at the exchange) which is what i believe Netsource did to fix their problems.

Every internet service (as people have stated) are contended. Yes even the 8mb/1mb dsl lines in holland germany ec. The reason they dont usually (its more common than you might think, chello last year anyone.Tho of course thats cable so slightly different) have any problems is that they have sufficient bandwidth at the exchange.

Your options: Complain a lot to Esat till they up the backhaul bandwidth (ie at the exchange). Get everyone you know suffering to do it. If it persists think about contacting comreg and/or making a claim in court i guess tho im not the person to speak too about that. (small claims court?)

All residential RADSL is 48:1 (2mb backhaul(?))- set by eircom as they control it.
Esat Business ADSL is 24:1 (8mb backhaul(?)) and costs €110 a month and only available from 40 LLU exchanges around the country.

Esat say up to speeds of 512kbps (64KB/s) but i think say minimal speed will be about 128kbps (15KB/s) however im not sure, workign from memory.

Knowing a lot about computers and building your own is in a totally different ballpark (maybe even state?) to knowing how DSL works. (im no expert, just what ive learned here and on sites over last 12 months. Also got info from people i know in Germany, Holland, UK etc )

Good Luck in your struggle

Urban Weigl

Very well explained!

With regards to those "minimum guaranteed speeds", they are only referring to RADSL -- depending on the quality of your line and how far away from the exchange, you will have a minimum of 256kbps to the exchange. After that, it's anyones guess.

Still, it seems odd that we are having so many capacity problems in Ireland. As you say, there is contention on EVERY DSL and broadband connection in Europe, but yet there don't seem to be many capacity issues, unlike here. I know for example whenever I am in Germany, I have always gotten the full 768kbps (96KB/s), no matter what time of day. I think it may be because as far as I am aware of the contention there is higher up, and not at the exchange. I.e. you might be sharing 155mbps of capacity with a larger number of users, so it averages out better. I am not completely certain about that.

fisty

Knowing a lot about computers and building your own is in a totally different ballpark (maybe even state?) to knowing how DSL works.

sure if you can build something with lego you can build a computer, it's just expensive lego:P