The ad RTE refused to air...

dahamsta

Gods, this could go anywhere -- Politics, Humour, IrelandOffline...

http://www.ryanair.com/adverts/

With thanks to Tom on Open. (Another Tom.)

adam

Hobart

I agree. It is actually silly that RTE would not broadcast it. I wonder why?

However I do notice, of late, that ryanair's marketing tactics are a little too devious. They are not all that they are cut out to be. For example I believe that they were recently "slapped" for advertising easter holiday breaks in which you could not travel at easter. However you could book the holiday then. So yea bad bad RTE. But also not so good Ryanair.

sceptre

That Easter campaign did look confusing at best, misleading at worst.

I love the "Call Bertie" advert though - I played it a few times today, giggled, played it again, ah sure you know yourself.

Cute "email bertie" link on the associated webpage

bonkey

Originally posted by Hobart
I agree. It is actually silly that RTE would not broadcast it. I wonder why?

Because its tantamount to a plea for harrassment.

jc

Typedef

Originally posted by Hobart
I agree. It is actually silly that RTE would not broadcast it. I wonder why?

Let me see.. a state controlled TV agency turning on it's political masters....

yeah... actually... why didn't they turn on Bertie and Seamus Brennan... since Fianna Fial are hell bent on spending tax payers money, on a terminal Ryanair will build for diddly

And oh, err, wait, the politicians control RTE's budget.

dahamsta

Originally posted by Typedef
Let me see.. a state controlled TV agency turning on it's political masters....

Err, Beeb, WoMD, 45 mins, Alistair Cambell, Tony Blair?

Errah I guess you're right, RTÉ wouldn't have the guts.

adam

Sparks

Are they going to run it on TV3?
Or is this a cynical attempt by MOL to get free publicity?

Originally posted by Sparks
Are they going to run it on TV3?
Or is this a cynical attempt by MOL to get free publicity?

Yes it is being run by TV3 this week prior to coronation street and Emerdale.
mm

Nevyn

Yes it was shown on TV3 and I fell about laughing, honestly it was only a matter of time before such types ads would be made and seen here, as they are par for the media in the USA.

It is a form of lobbying but instead of dealing with people behind the scenes appeals to the public at large making them feel as if they have a say.

If people where to lobby (not harass)
Those that are elected to supposedly repesent them things could be a lot different instead of those with money paying off Parties to get their members to vote a certain way.

Honestly how many people know whom their TD's are and how to get in touch with them?
And most TD's are happy to keep it that way

DeVore

Its a party political broadcast on behalf of the Michael O'Leary's Ego Party.

Ryanair are not the nice people they are cracked up to be. I've seen them do some awful things. Their flights are one long ad-break for car rental, phone cards, toys (!). Their service is sh|te and I dont trust them not to cut safety corners to save money.

DeV.

embraer170

Ryanair are not the nice people they are cracked up to be. I've seen them do some awful things. Their flights are one long ad-break for car rental, phone cards, toys (!). Their service is sh|te and I dont trust them not to cut safety corners to save money.

While I agree about their service, how many crashed have 14 year old Ryanair had? Absolutely none and compare that to a certain other European carrier which managed 3 fatal crashes (and another aircraft write-off) in less than 4 years.

dahamsta

It's only a matter of time embraer170.

adam

mike65

Originally posted by dahamsta
It's only a matter of time embraer170.

adam

:rolleyes: Yes and if I have enough monkeys with typewriters one of them will write Hamlet.

Mike.

dahamsta

Sorry mike65, Ryanair employs all the monkeys.

adam

There is a choice, no one has to fly Ryan air, why do they??
Cheap flights?
They ain't one of the biggest airlines in Europe , because, every customer hates them.
Anyone that flies with them knows exactly what the conditions are, and if they do not want that, there are plenty of other airlines, who will provide the perks/frills at a larger cost.
Heck they might even fly you into an airport near the city you are flying to.
But then, they won't get people that normally can't afford to fly, flying.

Aer lingus offer their London Economy passengers a biscuit and tea or coffee now, whereas it used be a meal, soon it will be nothing probably. They've dumped the travel agents for the most part, in favour of web based offers.

The, if you can't beat them, join them phrase comes to mind, as well as imitation being the sincerest form of flattery.
I've the height of respect for a business team that can deliver the kind of profits Ryanair have in the last year, given , all the downturns other airlines have suffered.
mm

dahamsta

I'm just back from London on AL, I wasn't offered a biscuit. Quite frankly, I'd be happy if drinks were only available on request. It's only a bloody hour for god's sake. Personally, Ryanair's bare-minimum maintenance routines don't instil confidence. Aer Lingus might be only one step up the ladder, but I'd prefer that extra rung, thanks. Anyway, I decided a long time ago that after all my spouting about it, the one time I travel Ryanair will be the time something goes horrendously wrong. Murphy can keep his law.

adam

Sparks

There is a choice, no one has to fly Ryan air, why do they??

Ignorance of the decision involved. I've been in aircraft since I was two weeks old (starting with cessnas) and the one and only time I ever felt uncomfortable or unsafe was on a ryanair flight.
When the 737 you're on is part of a fleet that's had half it's aircraft grounded for "excessive arcing between wires in the fuel tanks"... well. Safety doesn't seem too much like a high priority.

Originally posted by Sparks
Ignorance of the decision involved. I've been in aircraft since I was two weeks old (starting with cessnas) and the one and only time I ever felt uncomfortable or unsafe was on a ryanair flight.

For the record, I do not fly Ryan air any more and haven't for about four years.
( I have a BA executive club silver card:D and can heartily recommend their fully flat beds on trans atlantic club world, as well as the steak medium rare on Royal doulton china )

The one and only time I flew Ryanair , there was an ambulance and a fire engine following us out the runway, at that airport, an hour or so's bus ride from Paris:eek: :eek:
mm

Sparks

The one and only time I flew Ryanair , there was an ambulance and a fire engine following us out the runway, at that airport, an hour or so's bus ride from Paris

Well, that'll inspire confidence!

embraer170

I personally can't stand Ryanair. I've done a fair bit of flying and on Ryanair was the only time I was ever told to "put my f****** newspaper away" during the safety demo. That said and like so many other customers, it doesn't stop me from going back to them again and again.....

dahamsta,

It's only a matter of time embraer170.

And what exactly makes you think that? People were saying the same about the American LCC Southwest when it was founded in 1967. Now 36 years later, not a single fatality.

Sparks,

When the 737 you're on is part of a fleet that's had half it's aircraft grounded for "excessive arcing between wires in the fuel tanks"... well. Safety doesn't seem too much like a high priority.

Part of Ryanair's B737 fleet was grounded for "excessive arcing between wires in the fuel taknks"? I haven't heard anything of the sort though if you happen to have a link or something?

Jer

embraer170

( I have a BA executive club silver card and can heartily recommend their fully flat beds on trans atlantic club world, as well as the steak medium rare on Royal doulton china )

Just curious if you know of FlyerTalk? Plenty of boasting and bragging about FFP status there...

Sparks

Part of Ryanair's B737 fleet was grounded for "excessive arcing between wires in the fuel taknks"? I haven't heard anything of the sort though if you happen to have a link or something?

This was some years ago - '98 I think. Just after the 737 in the US had blown up on takeoff because of arcing in the wing tanks.

embraer170

This was some years ago - '98 I think. Just after the 737 in the US had blown up on takeoff because of arcing in the wing tanks.

The 737 has had its problems (tail mainly) but I haven't heard of any exploding due to arcing in the wing tanks. There was a single B737 incident in the US between 1996 and 2000.

November 1998 / AirTran B737 / no fatalities / Hydraulic problem

You wouldn't be confusing it with a TWA B747-100 crash in 1996 "Explosion of the center fuel tank. Wource of the ignition is unknown"

dahamsta

Originally posted by embraer170
And what exactly makes you think that?

Well, I said. As far as I'm aware - I had this explained to me by a SIFCO guy, but I can't remember the details exactly - there are three possible maintenance levels: Ryanair goes for the cheapest, Aer Lingus goes for the middle one. Wasn't a Ryanair jet grounded just this week? I seem to remember an article suggesting that the grounding may accelerate their jet orders but I can't find a reference.

adam

embraer170

dahamsta,

Who is/are SIFCO exactly?

there are three possible maintenance levels: Ryanair goes for the cheapest, Aer Lingus goes for the middle one. Wasn't a Ryanair jet grounded just this week? I seem to remember an article suggesting that the grounding may accelerate their jet orders but I can't find a reference.

There is way more to maintenance than merely three levels. The IAA (Irish Aviation Authority) monitors Ryanair and you can be certain that if the company did not conform to regulation, we'd be hearing about it.

And more from the stupid tabloids. Ryanair simply retired a plane, like all airlines have to do.

dahamsta

Who is/are SIFCO exactly?

I'm a little surprised you don't know embraer170, given your handle and your obvious interest in the air industry.

http://www.sifco.com/
http://www.sifco.ie/

There is way more to maintenance than merely three levels. The IAA (Irish Aviation Authority) monitors Ryanair and you can be certain that if the company did not conform to regulation, we'd be hearing about it.

I didn't say that they didn't conform to regulation, and obviously "three levels" is a gross simplification on my part. How about I go back to "bare-bones" or "bare minimum"?

And more from the stupid tabloids. Ryanair simply retired a plane, like all airlines have to do.

Indeed, but Ryanair's entire fleet is bordering on retirement.

adam

embraer170

dahamsta,

I'm a little surprised you don't know embraer170, given your handle and your obvious interest in the air industry

No I really had never heard of them. Thanks.

Indeed, but Ryanair's entire fleet is bordering on retirement.

Well they current have about 20 B737-200s, all 20+ years of age and yes bordering retirement. However the rest of their fleet -50+ B737-800s with another 120 on firm order - were all bought new and are less than 5 years old. When the B737-200s leave (2006 at the latest), the airline will have one of the younger fleets in Europe.

I really don't have exact fleet figures since they - like everything at Ryanair - change so quickly.

Jer

Occidental

Maybe to dispel some of the myths on this thread so far

Ryanair
737-200’s 21 in service aged 20-23years
737-800’s 35 in service aged 0-4 years

Aer Lingus
Oldest things they have are 146’s (4 engine high wing ) oldest in service 14 years
It should also be noted that Aer Lingus operated a large fleet of 737-200’s which were retired in the 1990’s when the oldest aircraft in service were 22-23 years.

Cityjet(Air France Dublin-Paris)
146’s oldest in service 18 years

Aer Arann
ATR’s oldest in service 18 years

JetMagic
ERJ’s oldest in service 1 year


Ryanair’s maintenance is carried out by FLS at Dublin and Stansted, by exactly the same engineers who look after the Aer Lingus fleet. Ryanair are however building their own maintenance facility at Prestwick in Scotland and will soon take up much of this work in-house.

A few years ago Boeing discovered a problem with cable wear and fuel pumps on centre fuel tanks (following explosion of a TWA 747 and a Thai 737). Part of the problem was traced back to overheating on pumps manufactured by Hydro-Aire. An emergency directive was issued which required the pumps to be replaced on an estimated 3500 Boeing aircraft, ranging from ancient to brand new. This directive affected nearly every Boeing operator in the world, including Aer Lingus.



I am involved in aviation, but not with Ryanair, so I have no axe to grind or cause to further. I am however saddened at how quick people are to build up myth into fact.

If you are looking to have a go at Ryanair, I wouldn’t start with their maintenance procedures. They are no better or no worse than anyone else and most of the other operators aren’t quite as brilliant as you might think.

Hobart

Thread seems to have gone way weay off topic. Does anybody here have proof that the age of an airplane contributes to its lack of safety. Somebody made a point earlier that RA conform to IAA regulations on maintainence. Wether that is the so called "cheap" option or not does not matter. What does matter is that Ryanair are very very good at crying oppression when they don't get their own way and yet will mis-lead the public at every opportuinity. I cannot remember the amount of times they have been in front of the ASA for misleading claims. And as for flights to Paris and London. I think Stanstead is in Scotland somewhere and Beauvis (ws) well there were guys walking around in leaderhosen drinking pilsner.

BTW anybody notice the Ryanair ad on the front of the indo on Tuesday?? £19 to Birmingham. £? not €19.

dahamsta

Thanks for that post Occidental. Am I wrong so in saying that Ryanair's maintenance program is "bare minimum" and that Aer Lingus have a slightly better program? (You can service your car in the same place and pay different prices. Spurious parts come to mind.)

adam

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Hobart
And as for flights to Paris and London. I think Stanstead is in Scotland somewhere and Beauvis (ws) well there were guys walking around in leaderhosen drinking pilsner.

BTW anybody notice the Ryanair ad on the front of the indo on Tuesday?? £19 to Birmingham. £? not €19.

Stanstead is not too bad. At least there is a decent rail link. The worst, I've heard is "Frankfurt"-Hahn where Hahn is two hours from Frankfurt. At least it's in Germany, though

Hobart

I don't disagree with you at all skepticone. But Stanstead is in Essex (AFAIK) and not London or even Greater London. So why advertise it as such? Yes the train service is good but so what? The train service from Luton is equally good. It's just the whole mis-representation that gets me. Yes I know ppl will get what they pay for and yes most can surf the web and find out exactly where Stanstead is, but what about those that can't? I also know that aer-lingus have recently reduced their fares to the UK and that they are a lot more competitive. So shopping around should be the best advice.

To get back to my main point I am sick of Mo'Leary crying about "this is unfair" and "that's unfaie" when he's pushing the system to it's limits himself. RTE were equally wrong for not running his ad but it could actually have been an opportunity for them. One which they probably never take. Back to concervatism with ye! I just wonder if they were not looking for another licence increase would they have run it?

Bad....bad.......me.........Slap on the ol' wristy and a saucer of milk.

sceptre

Originally posted by Hobart
I don't disagree with you at all skepticone. But Stanstead is in Essex (AFAIK) and not London or even Greater London. So why advertise it as such?[/SIZE]

London Gatwick is in West Sussex, which doesn't even touch Greater London itself as Surrey is in the way. It's all marketing really.

(of course the TLA's happily tell us there is or was a little distinction between LHR, LGW & STN)

Occidental

Adam,

I wouldn’t consider Aer Lingus to have a better program, although you may find that they have different priorities. If you look at the 737 fleets that both airlines operate you might get a better idea. These are of course my own thoughts on the subject

Ryanair 737-200
All 20 years+ and owned by the airline. Running out of hours and cycles and will be banned from EU operations by the next round of noise regulations. Resale value is little or none. Makes sense to maintain to serviceable standard and retire when major maintenance is due. Not a lot of point in wasting money on cabin interiors or non-critical items.

Aer Lingus 737-400/500
10-12 years old and mostly owned by Aer Lingus. These will be phased out over the next few years when Aer Lingus finally standardises it’s short haul fleet on Airbus or Boeing. As the aircraft are mid-life and will comply with new noise regulations, they will be a valuable asset to Aer Lingus when the time comes to sell them. It therefore makes sense to maintain these aircraft in the best condition possible.

Ryanair 737-800
All 4 years old or less and purchased new from Boeing. It is widely expected that Ryanair will run these aircraft for their full life, so therefore well worth their while to look after them.


BTW aircraft parts are strictly controlled and certified. If it’s certified and safe for a Ryanair 737 then it’s certified and safe for all 737’s. You can shop around suppliers and manufacturers for parts, but most of the differences tend to come down to a particular role or feature you are after and for which you will pay appropriately.


Hope this answers some of your questions and isn’t just the pile of waffle it looks like from here.


Cheers,

Pat


PS: Aer Lingus and BA have been using London Stansted and London Gatwick for years and everyone knows that Heathrow is really in Middlesex.

Hobbes

I can't see the advert here however.


1. the link to contact bertie goes to webmaster@taoiseach.irlgov.ie which is at a guess the address that deals with the website issues, not Berties address which is taoiseach@taoiseach.gov.ie .

So your email is probably going to /dev/null

2. The Irish Times poll they link to has absolutly nothing to do with the advert. I couldn't find a poll at all to be honest.

3. A quick search on news sites and it has been pulled from TV3 although not for the reasons Ryanair say.

TV3 withdraws Ryanair advert
From:ireland.com
Saturday, 12th July, 2003

TV3 has been forced to pull an advertisement from Ryanair calling on the Taoiseach to clear the way for a private terminal at Dublin Airport.

The advert, which urged members of the public to phone the Taoiseach's office, was also turned down for broadcast by RTÉ.

It was aired briefly on TV3 on Thursday evening but yesterday, after hearing about its contents, the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland (BCI) contacted TV3 and advised them it could breach broadcasting legislation.

The advertisement involved Ryanair chief executive Mr Michael O'Leary talking about more competition at Dublin Airport, while the Taoiseach's office number appeared on the screen.

Yesterday an RTÉ spokeswoman said the station was not censoring Ryanair but RTÉ believed the advertisement was in breach of the 1960 Broadcasting Act.

She pointed to a section of the Act which states: " The Authority shall not accept any advertisement which is directed towards any religious or political end or has any relation to any industrial dispute."

RTÉ had no option but to obey the law, she added.

A TV3 spokeswoman said the BCI informed the station it could not accept advertisements with a political dimension.

Mr David McMunn, the station's legal adviser, said: "We were told the use of the image of a real person without them being first informed was also not permissible and so we've told Ryanair we cannot show the advert again."

Victor

She pointed to a section of the Act which states: " The Authority shall not accept any advertisement which is directed towards any religious or political end or has any relation to any industrial dispute."

Exactly.

SkepticOne

Fair play to Ryan Air for introducing a bit of competition to routes like Dublin/London (even if it is Stansted) but I don't think RTE should be showing people voicing essentially political views on RTE simply because they have money for an ad.

Victor

It just struck me, why don't Ryanair sod off and build their own airport?

Originally posted by Victor
It just struck me, why don't Ryanair sod off and build their own airport?

I know someone with a grass landing strip, near courtown in co wexford, who might be more than willing to sell.... only a two hour bus ride from Dublin off-peak
mm

mike65

Originally posted by Victor
It just struck me, why don't Ryanair sod off and build their own airport?

They proberly would'nt get planning permision!

Mike.

wolfman

Originally posted by Victor
It just struck me, why don't Ryanair sod off and build their own airport?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of this whole thing with Ryanair is that they have actually said they WILL pay for it AND hand it over to the government, but are still not being allowed to do so by the government??

Maybe I am way off the mark, but that was always my understanding of the whole issue.

Can some of you guys explain it for me please?

dahamsta

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of this whole thing with Ryanair is that they have actually said they WILL pay for it AND hand it over to the government, but are still not being allowed to do so by the government??

IMHO, you're wrong. O'Leary? Hello?

Occidental, I appreciate you taking the time to respond in such detail. I'll reply when I'm sober,

adam

Imposter

[QUOTEShe pointed to a section of the Act which states: " The Authority shall not accept any advertisement which is directed towards any religious or political end or has any relation to any industrial dispute."
[/QUOTE]
But but but....
Were there not adds before the Nice elections? And what exactly is the definition of a 'political end'?

Surely most charities and corporations are using adverts for their reasons which could in some cases be interpreted as political in nature.

Victor

Originally posted by wolfman
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of this whole thing with Ryanair is that they have actually said they WILL pay for it AND hand it over to the government, but are still not being allowed to do so by the government??

Yes they will, the will build something with a 25 year life span and hand it over to the government in 35 years having never paid rent, is most likely what most such operators would want to do.

Lennoxschips

What Dublin needs is a proper, integrated terminal, not a bunch of competing terminals. That creates a fragmented, inefficient airport where transferring between flights becomes difficult. (ie Heathrow)

Somehow I get the feeling that O'Leary wants to get into trans-atlantic flights and wants Dublin as his hub into Europe, with his own private little terminal. Do the residents of North Dublin want the airport to become an international hub and the skies over the city Ryanair's personal kerosine dump?

O'Leary really irritates me. Not quite as much as Bertie, but still. O'Leary was on BBC talking about Ryanair being an example of "us paddies having a knack for making a good profit" or something like that. :mad:

de5p0i1er

RTE wer probabley afraid that if Ryanair got a hold on Dublin then all the semi-state bodys would lose all there funding and all those ppl with over payed do nothing jobs for life would like there directors would be unemployed.

Victor

Originally posted by Lennoxschips
What Dublin needs is a proper, integrated terminal, not a bunch of competing terminals. That creates a fragmented, inefficient airport where transferring between flights becomes difficult. (ie Heathrow)

Indeed, San Francisco International has four (one closed) terminals, all of which are physically attached to each other in an arc, not like Amsterdam which is absolutely vast - 30 minutes walk between gates (Dublin less so).

http://www.san-francisco-sfo.com/maps.html

javascript:LinkPopupWindow('http://www.schiphol.nl/media/pdf/jaarverslag/airportcityguide_en.pdf','300','300','no')

http://www.dublinairport.ie/AR_Dublin/Live/Lv_pres_GenTemplate.asp?strPage_Name=DN_AirportMaps

Headcase

from what i can see, Ryanair have a certain advertising approach.
they are throwing out the contraversal ads for a reason.
their advertising is costing them sweet f**k all.
they come out with an ad, and because of its nature, it gets a lot of pubilicity, and any publicity is good publicity.
i remember not too long ago, they had an ad involving the pope. from what cost a couple hundred euro, got millions worth in publicity. it appeared in news papers and magazine across teh world.
what ever they are doing, it's working