David Long to appear on RTE news.

SkepticOne

IOFFL's chairman, David Long, will be making another appearance on RTE news later today (either 6 or 9 pm) about the introduction of FRIACO based services.

It would be nice to get a record of the event on the IOFFL website. If anyone has equipment to capture and digitise it, it would be appreciated if they could either respond on this thread or PM David Long ("dangger").

pete

I wont be home by 6 but i'll try to remember to do the 9pm.... it'll be on the RTE News website anyways probably

DeVore

...and that was The Nerds at Nine... now the weather..

(I'd like to reiterate my suggestion about the hotdog-waistcoat. You could hold the entire of RTE to ransom for decent broadband!)

Its just a pity that FRIACO is a day late and a dollar short.


Good luck though Dave! I'll be rooting for you as ever!

DeV.

shinzon

Ok was that it, 2 minutes 2 flaming minutes on the news, highlights are

1) UTV and ESATBT to launch friaco on friday

2) David long (nice suit by the way ), saying that friaco is vital for areas who cant get BB (also true), not debating that just the way RTE smugly said that with the introduction of BB is friaco really necessary, slaps head there, David did get in the point though about only 100 of the 1100 exchanges being upgraded

3) Dermot aherne, looking like he could suck a tennis ball through a racket, praising all for a job well done, oh and some rubbish about the online price war YADA YADA YADA

God it was such a letdown, but i suppose it was a vegetable piece nothing more nothing less

Regards

Shin

mike65

A typical piece of mass market news journalism in other words.....

Mike.

SkepticOne

Here's the 56k video (real media) from the 1 o'clock news. The same piece was shown later at 6. It will roll off the website in a day or so.

pete

i taped the 9pm news but it wasn't on it

sorry chaps

however

you can access the source file here: [url=rtsp://streaming2.rte.ie/2003/0625/6news56.rm]rtsp://streaming2.rte.ie/2003/0625/6news56.rm[/url]

clip starts at 43:12 & ends at 45:02

edit: uhhh anyone know how to download rtsp stuff?

dammit

dregin

Originally posted by pete

edit: uhhh anyone know how to download rtsp stuff?

Streambox is what ya want for that. I gave it a go but 42.3Mb over me winkly wee 56k is gonna take a good while. Maybe if someone with BB could give it a go.

Dregin

Paddy20

As Eircom appear to have RTE and RTE NEWS by the short & curlies, I suppose it is something of a miracle that anything that might embarass the Eircom Rat even gets an airing!.

I for one am sick of seeing Eircom all over RTE. Get rid of them for Gods sake.

Paddy20.

pete

Originally posted by dregin-x
Streambox is what ya want for that. I gave it a go but 42.3Mb over me winkly wee 56k is gonna take a good while. Maybe if someone with BB could give it a go.

Dregin

Oh irony of ironies

Gavin

Originally posted by shinzon
Ok was that it, 2 minutes 2 flaming minutes on the news, highlights are

1) UTV and ESATBT to launch friaco on friday

2) David long (nice suit by the way ), saying that friaco is vital for areas who cant get BB (also true), not debating that just the way RTE smugly said that with the introduction of BB is friaco really necessary, slaps head there, David did get in the point though about only 100 of the 1100 exchanges being upgraded

3) Dermot aherne, looking like he could suck a tennis ball through a racket, praising all for a job well done, oh and some rubbish about the online price war YADA YADA YADA

God it was such a letdown, but i suppose it was a vegetable piece nothing more nothing less

Regards

Shin

Moan moan moan. This really is a familiar tune. IOFFL are doing a bloody good job, getting publicity like that. I can only imagine that a serious amount of effort went into getting it organised. What were you expecting ?

Gav

shinzon

A little more than the rubbish that was aired VERB, and as for organising an appearence, jesus , emm david this is RTE calling would you like to appear on the news, Sure i would nps, thx then cya later

God

Regards

Shin

Dangger

FFS, enough.

I'm greatful some people around here can remember the days when IOFFL had no coverage what so ever.

I think many people have simply no idea how much time and effort is required to secure and prepare for prolonged media coverage of this whole topic as its been going on for so long.

Myself and Christian took a full day off our contracted jobs yesterday. In other words we went without a days wage to ensure we could be in a position to provide input into the coverage of flat rate. It's not the first time we did it and I suspect it won't be the last.

Before I get criticised, it's true that it was our choice and I'm not moaning about it, just stating the facts.

A lunch was held for the lobbying groups who had called for flat rate with Minister, many of he DCMNR staff who had worked on it, and the press attending. This was a valuable opportunity for IOFFL to discuss the future and the next steps, we didn't sit around moaning about the cap on FRICAO, you can be sure of that.

I'm glad IOFFL has attracted a core group willing to make things happen by contributing their time and energy, and has the support of individuals who appreciate the effort required and help when they can.

It's so easy to moan, and it's all that happened for a long time before IOFFL was formed. Since I can't stand people who moan about moaners either (as I am right now) , I'll stop there.

Dustaz

Originally posted by shinzon
A little more than the rubbish that was aired VERB, and as for organising an appearence, jesus , emm david this is RTE calling would you like to appear on the news, Sure i would nps, thx then cya later

Shinzon, thats possibly the stupidest thing youve said on this forum to date.


You didnt asnwer the question, what exactly DID you expect? I suspect all you want to see is an in-depth analysis of Waterfords DSL enabled exchanges and an explanation of why you cant get it.

Getting to the stage where RTE call Ioffl for comment is a massive achievement in itself and dave did well to get the extra stuff he mentioned included. How do you think RTE came to call Dave? Its not quite as simple as you make out.

shinzon

can somebody please tell me exactly what comment was made that pushed any goals further then they are, nothing that was said in the interview wasnt what was already known, by adverts, fliers and information that coulda have been gotten anywhere

It was a vegetable piece pure and simple, nothing will be said to rock the boat, eircom has there foot in RTES door, they sponsor the weather have ads on the telly ETC ETC ETC

So i stand by what i said 100%, im not looking for any indepth investigation of Waterford DSL, it aint happening, im looking into wireless options and will get it that way, but nor do i want the Irish consumer to be thought of as a dope, im sick and tired of the softly softly approach, that the irish must be given the ABC of the internet again and again and again because supposedly they dont know what friaco is or broadband is which if they dont know by now then they shouldnt even have a modem attached to there PC in the first place.

david and ioffl are doing good work, but the time for spelling out what these things are is over and if there not prepared to go that extra mile and really hammer the message then perhaps its time to step aside take what we have and let some other people run with the ball

Regards

Shin

BKtje

<snip>
because supposedly they dont know what friaco is or broadband is which if they dont know by now then they shouldnt even have a modem attached to there PC in the first place.

A lot of people dont know what friaco and broadband are and a number of them couldn't care less.
Any publicity is good publicity and the awareness is slwoly rising. I have friends now asking me to explain stuff they they wouldnt laughed at before if id mentioned it.

Slowly but surely the people who you feel shouldnt have a modem attached to their pc's are learning what they are missing out on and are learning why they dont get it as good here as in other countries and what it can be used for.

raeGten

Originally posted by shinzon


david and ioffl are doing good work, but the time for spelling out what these things are is over and if there not prepared to go that extra mile and really hammer the message then perhaps its time to step aside take what we have and let some other people run with the ball

Who do you suggest??

Dangger

then perhaps its time to step aside take what we have and let some other people run with the ball

Absolutely! Looking forward to giving you the ball at the AGM.

shinzon

not for one absolute minute did i ever say me and i want that on public record as of from this time forward.

just being a bit more forceful on the issues would be even a bit of help David, take the tack away from this is what this is and this is what that is. rather more this is the state of things, this is how eircom have lied continually to the public, the infrastructure is ****e etc

And if RTE dont want to report on that then goto TV3 who are not constrained by the rather kiss my big roundy advertised stranglehold arse attitude of eircom


regards

Shin

Dangger

I think the real issue here is a misconception by many people on this forum as to how clued up the rest of the population is on these issues.

IOFFL does not have the resources or the inclination to educate the nation on the merits of broadband and Internet technologies. There are allegedly government agencies for that. We exist to have Internet connectivity made available to all for a reasonable cost.

The reason IOFFL is asked to answer all these "what is broadband" type questions when we engage with the press is because the mass meda journalists don't want their listeners/readers switching off on hearing a load of tech talk. We would not be asked back on radio or tv if we spouted off about the tech side too much.

It's a terrifying thought in 2003, but the majority here could be considered the "early adopters" in Ireland.

I'm stepping down as chairman from the end of June and look forward to a new approach if it is deemed necessary and appropiate.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by shinzon
just being a bit more forceful on the issues would be even a bit of help David, take the tack away from this is what this is and this is what that is. rather more this is the state of things, this is how eircom have lied continually to the public, the infrastructure is ****e etc

I disagree with this. When you are on national radio or TV, the thing to do is keep it simple and explain everything. Even people like Damien Kilberd and David McWilliams will require explanations of the terms being discussed because they know a lot of people listening won't know much about FRIACO, DSL etc. This may be frustrating for some people here, but that is not important.

The object is to reach as many people as possible and alienate as few as possible. I would much rather that David Long speak for 20 seconds in a calm rational manner than go on a rant that only a few people on this forum would understand. That would only set the situation back.

carbsy

Originally posted by SkepticOne


The object is to reach as many people as possible and alienate as few as possible. I would much rather that David Long speak for 20 seconds in a calm rational manner than go on a rant that only a few people on this forum would understand. That would only set the situation back.

I agree totally.A fine balance is needed between the two.

carb.

VeeEmmy

A person can say whatever they want in front of a microphone, and we'll never know. They (RTÉ or whomever) will take the tape and edit it down to a 5-10 second sound byte which barely reflects what was said anyway. If it's not so simple that a 6th class drop-out can understand it, it won't be aired.

So don't judge Dave's ability to communicate by what you see on telly.

RTÉ folks have fast "always on" internet at work, so most have no clue what the problem is.

*MOST* people in Ireland don't use the internet and don't think it is important at all . All this internet gobbledy-gook talk is just a load of hooey to them! We are lucky that ANYthing shows up on the news about it.

Ban'

Dangger

I must admit I answered several questions on camera on the day, must have been at least 5 minues in total. Only a smidging makes it to the cut. I must be all over the floor of some darkened room somewhere in RTE

Cuauhtemoc

I'd have to disagree with the *most* people in ireland don't use the internet. Huge amounts of people use it everyday in work/college/schools etc, and especially amongst the younger generation who want their xbox live or ps2 to work over the internet. All these people will have an interest. It's just up to now they have been lead to believe that dial -up was all you could get at home. Thats why there was no interest.
Now eircom launch a second rate broadband service and lead general joe soap to believe they're getting the best product in the world.
I think the general public don't know how bad eircom have been how much they've delayed broadband/competition etc.
A more forceful approach as Shinzon said might make people more aware of the rip off/anti competive behaviour of their telco.
It doesn't have to be a big technical rant that people would make people switch off, just boil it down to money(how we have the highest or near highest line rental in europe for example) and anti comptetive behaviour, not having the publics interest at heart etc...etc. Non technical people would understand this perfectly.

My 2cents neway

Edit : 1st line corrected as i misquoted it.

Dangger

just boil it down to money(how we have the highest or near highest line rental in europe for example) and anti comptetive behaviour, not having the publics interest at heart etc...etc.

But that sums up what we've been saying, particularly most recently. For example discussions with David McWilliams, and Damien Kilberd of Newstalk have focused on exactly what you are suggesting.

Financial comparisons and the lack of quality services compared to elsewhere in Europe and the world have always been part of the commentary.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by shinzon
can somebody please tell me exactly what comment was made that pushed any goals further then they are, nothing that was said in the interview wasnt what was already known, by adverts, fliers and information that coulda have been gotten anywhere

Getting the name of your organisation on national TV is hugely important. If you can get a bit of 'message' across, that is a further bonus but you don't always get that chance.

The alternative and easier option would have been to sit at home. Personally, I'd rather Dave and IOFFL use whatever opportunities present themselves in the appropriate way, than do that. Not every media appearance will allow IOFFL to put the issues to bed once and for all and attempting to do so on a 10 second news slot would have been insane.

I think your criticisms are unreasonable and your expectations unrealistic.

shinzon

im only criticising because whats been said is exactly whats been again and again and aggggggggainnnnnnn, on every flaming news program from here to timbuctoo, its the same thing over and over.

its doing my head in just listening to it.

Im not talking about a 3 hour rant and rave about contention ratios etc, what im talking about is slipping in stuff about the anti competitveness of eircom, line rental that sorta thing, and the trick about interviews especiallly TV is that you slip it in in such away that the you make the journalist think he thought about it in the first place, compare Davids interview and Dermot ahernes, just go back and watch it and see which was the more slick, who worked the camera more and got more air time, it was the minister basically because he knew who to work the media and in order foy IOFFL to get these sorts of points across then this must be learned 2

Regards

Shin

PS theres a big difference between talk radio and TV, Tv gives you the country, radio gives you whose listening to it at the time

p2p

And if RTE dont want to report on that then goto TV3 who are not constrained by the rather kiss my big roundy advertised stranglehold arse attitude of eircom

shinzon were you not the very same person who would not be interviewed for TV3 ? Could you have done a better job yourself ? I seem to remember you pleading with other people to take your place.

Dave, sorry to hear you're thinking of standing down.
I do remember what it was like when we could hardly get on a radio show let alone RTE. Keep up the good work..

SkepticOne

Originally posted by shinzon
im only criticising because whats been said is exactly whats been again and again and aggggggggainnnnnnn, on every flaming news program from here to timbuctoo, its the same thing over and over.

its doing my head in just listening to it.

Yes, but your head is not important. You are not the target, are you? The target is all those people who have not heard of IOFFL. If this means doing your head in, then I say go for it.

ick about interviews especiallly TV is that you slip it in in such away that the you make the journalist think he thought about it in the first place, compare Davids interview and Dermot ahernes, just go back and watch it and see which was the more slick, who worked the camera more and got more air time, it was the minister basically because he knew who to work the media and in order foy IOFFL to get these sorts of points across then thi

So, because David's interview was not as slick as a senior politician with highly paid professional advisers and PR people who, even without these people, would get more of a hearing on RTE simply because he is a minister of the Government, you think that David Long should have stayed at home and not bothered. This is what I meant by unreasonable and unrealistic.

eth0_

Originally posted by shinzon

It was a vegetable piece pure and simple, nothing will be said to rock the boat, eircom has there foot in RTES door, they sponsor the weather have ads on the telly ETC ETC ETC

Uh, i'm pretty sure Esat also advertise on RTE.

But basically, its the fscking tea time news what did you expect? They don't have *time* to have a heated debate about dsl, you really sound like you're one step away from suggesting IOFFL should turn to anarchy!

Dustaz

Originally posted by Banished-She
A person can say whatever they want in front of a microphone, and we'll never know. They (RTÉ or whomever) will take the tape and edit it down to a 5-10 second sound byte which barely reflects what was said anyway. If it's not so simple that a 6th class drop-out can understand it, it won't be aired.

Good explanation BS

Being an Editor myself i always forget that people totally underestimate what editing can actually do.

And speaking as an editor, i know EXACTLY why David's comments appeared as they did. They were Short and Relevant to the piece at hand. In fact he was lucky to get the extra bits that he DID say out. I dont do a lot of News Editing but from past expeirience the Journalists tend to take the best 2 lines from any given answer based on relavence and how they sound. They dont do it from an investigative point of view.

Shinzon, it was NOT the same information you have heard over and over again. 100 exchanges out of 1100 is an impressive stat to get broadcasted and it certainly has never appeared on television before.

How exactly can Ioffl be more aggressive? Should they follow your tact when approaching TV3 (Seeing as that was so successfull the first time around)?


A Government minister recieved more airtime than a little known public interest group? SHOCKER - CALL THE PAPERS.
Good god, scale back your expectations.

shinzon

the ioffl group could just with a smidgeon of self belief broaden there expectations rather than asking me to diminish mine.

shin

SkepticOne

Originally posted by shinzon
the ioffl group could just with a smidgeon of self belief broaden there expectations rather than asking me to diminish mine.

shin

Like staying at home when invited to appear on national tv.

shinzon

To put this TV3 thing to be once and for all because people are attacking me for speaking my mind


1) there was a very good reason that I could not do that interview, and this cannot be published on the boards, you can ask dannger himself why i declined to appear.

Regards

Shin

eth0_

Shinzon, perhaps you could put forward a proposal on how IOFFL can best cast their net wider, seeing as you obviously consider yourself an authority on self promotion...

SkepticOne

Originally posted by shinzon
1) there was a very good reason that I could not do that interview, and this cannot be published on the boards, you can ask dannger himself why i declined to appear.

No, I was not talking about whether or not you appear on TV3. Why would anyone care whether or not you appear on TV3?

I was referring to your attitude towards IOFFL appearing on RTE news:

It was a vegetable piece pure and simple, nothing will be said to rock the boat, eircom has there foot in RTES door, they sponsor the weather have ads on the telly ETC ETC ETC

Your suggestion appears to be that IOFFL should have not bothered appearing simply because they would not get a chance to be forcefull about the issues of being ripped off, etc.

Bard

Originally posted by shinzon

It was a vegetable piece pure and simple, nothing will be said to rock the boat, eircom has there foot in RTES door, they sponsor the weather have ads on the telly ETC ETC ETC

So because eircom sponsor the weather reports and have ads on RTÉ television, RTÉ are therefore wrapped around eircom's "little finger"? Sorry shinzon, but what a bunch of crap.

Originally posted by shinzon

And if RTE dont want to report on that then goto TV3 who are not constrained by the rather kiss my big roundy advertised stranglehold arse attitude of eircom

Ehhh, eircom also sponsor tv3's weather reports and advertise on their TV station. By your reckoning they should be in the same position as RTÉ.

The simple reasons why this doesn't get more media coverage are that the interest isn't really there in our un-informed general population and there are much bigger news stories around at the moment.

Relax. You'll live longer.

shinzon

i dont consider myself an autority on self promotion, im suggesting ioffls strategy is out of date, come friday friaco is moot its here whatever price its at

broadband is here, expensive but its here, its now time t stop educating the populace about these if they want it its there, its time ioffl turns its head towards there own charter

2. Universal access to broadband services for all users.


lest anyones forgotten it, taken directly from irelandoffline.org, i say forget about the fluff pieces and concentrate on what irelandoffline was set up for in the first place, and yes i did edit it by taking out the affordale part to make it easier for the members in the audience to understand what im talking about

Regards

Shin

SkepticOne

Originally posted by shinzon
lest anyones forgotten it, taken directly from irelandoffline.org, i say forget about the fluff pieces and concentrate on what irelandoffline was set up for in the first place, and yes i did edit it by taking out the affordale part to make it easier for the members in the audience to understand what im talking about

I disagree with this. While the fluff pieces won't be saying anything new to people on this forum (most people understand this), they are important for raising the profile of IOFFL. This opens further doors where the issues can be addressed in further detail. Raising the profile and keeping it there is an important and ongoing task.

bk

Originally posted by shinzon

2. Universal access to broadband services for all users.


lest anyones forgotten it, taken directly from irelandoffline.org, i say forget about the fluff pieces and concentrate on what irelandoffline was set up for in the first place

This is exactly what IOFFL have been concentrating on every day since we got FRIACO in the bag.

I imagine IOFFL's strategy is to get the ear of the decision makers in the Irish government such as Dermot Aherns office and ComReg and persuade them to mandate what we want.

These are the only people that can really make a change to the status quo, Eircom couldn't care less about what we say or do.

We get to talk to the people in power because we come across as intelligent, well informed and professional organisation, with whom they can work with in confidence.

If IOFFL went on TV and said Eircom where lying, thieving ba****ds (which they are) it wouldn't help our cause at all, it would only make us look unprofessional in the eyes of the people in power and close many doors to us.

I'd imagine this is why IOFFL goes for the soft approach in the media, to build awareness of the situation while maintaining the professionalism. In the meantime the real work goes on behind closed doors.

Dustaz

Originally posted by shinzon

1) there was a very good reason that I could not do that interview, and this cannot be published on the boards, you can ask dannger himself why i declined to appear.

IIRC, your complaint to TV3 was not based in fact and it was this that led to a piece being mooted.

That whole episode should have been a lesson that the softly softly approach is the one to take - not the raving "OMG BASTARDS YUOR ALL LAMERS" avenue.

DeVore

IOFFL have not put a foot wrong imho since they started.
Witnessed by the fact that they just shared an RTE slot with the Minister For Communications.

Sorry.. but who the fnck are we again? Some bunch of angry nerds on a mission!

Pretty damned good I'd say.

To steal a phrase... a lot done, more to do.


DeV.

parasite

even though you're resigning as chairman, are you still going to be the spokesperson, in effect ?
it would be a shame as you come across as very reasonable, not just an angry geek etc . blah

shinzon

I give up i really do, im not saying we should go banner waving to donnybrook or flame bomb the dail, but softly softly should now be put to one side and the goals and aims i stated above should be put into action immediately if not sooner

also where did i state anywhere in my posts that we should call eircom lying thieving bastards, never, but IMHO things should start to be dropped into interviews about eircoms anti-competitive nature whether it be a fluff piece or not

Regards

Shin

RE TV3, this interview was not dropped, I asked on numerous occasions whether it was still on, I was assured by david that it was very much still on, but it seems its just dropped off the radar altogether

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Dustaz
IIRC, your complaint to TV3 was not based in fact and it was this that led to a piece being mooted.

That whole episode should have been a lesson that the softly softly approach is the one to take - not the raving "OMG BASTARDS YUOR ALL LAMERS" avenue.

The episode led to the "Media Contact" sticky at the top of the forum, so it was not a total waste.

Dangger

I was assured by david that it was very much still on, but it seems its just dropped off the radar altogether

We decided to try and use the TV3 opportunity to greater effect for coverage of an event we are planning in September, so all is not lost.

monument

Originally posted by Cuauhtemoc
I'd have to disagree with the *most* people in ireland don't know what the internet is.

Most people in Ireland think the internet is porn, airline tickets, for filling out your the CAO form and an *insecure* place to buy things.

Most people in Ireland are very confused or don’t want to know what broadband does. This confusion is added to when the media and advertisements mix up types of broadband (i.e. ASDL, Cable) which are on the market and independent “broadband” infrastructure which is currently been installed in a few towns around the country.

VeeEmmy

I must point out a mistake: Cuauhtemoc mis-read my post and monument has referred to Cuauhtemoc's comments on the mis-read.

I did not say that most people in Ireland don't know what the Internet is. I said *most* people in Ireland do not
*USE* the internet.

I have to agree with monument's comments about what a huge, huge percentage of people think that it is: porn, predatory paedophiles, credit card rip-offs, viruses and invasion of privacy.

Those of us who live and/or work in cities, use the internet and interact with people of similar description are living in a naive bubble to think that the majority of people living in Ireland do what we do and think like we do.

I live in a village in a rural county. 95% of the people there, I'd venture to say, first have no computer, and second, if they have one, have not connected to the internet.

For those of us fortunate enough to have access at work, a HUGE number of our co-workers do not get online at home. They use fast internet at work, and have no idea what it's like to connect at the mind-numbing "speed" of 16.8!!

The news is watched by all the people (by Joe Bloggs who is 75 and can't read as well as the nuclear physicist type), and especially by the ones who don't access the internet. The internet is used AT HOME by a relatively tiny portion of folks.

Joe Bloggs votes too, and he doesn't care about the internet. Politicians know that only too well.

Dave Long represents IOFFL very well, in my opinion. But sure, if folks don't like how he's performing, we could always lower his salary.

Oh... yeah... I forgot... we don't pay him anything.

P.S. I know ppl at RTÉ, and eircom is a cash cow. Smart dogs do not bite the hand that feeds them. RTÉ needs eircom's advert money waaaaaaaaaaaaay more than eircom needs RTÉ.

Ban'

Cuauhtemoc

I must point out a mistake: Cuauhtemoc mis-read my post and monument has referred to Cuauhtemoc's comments on the mis-read.

I've corrected my earlier typo..

I may have mistyped my reply, but the my original statement was still a response to most people don't use the internet.

I still think your wrong about most people not using the internet. Unfortunately i can't place my hands on any facts or figures so maybe someone else can chip in with those but as in my earlier post work/college/schools/kids with xboxes must account for a fair few people.
A rural/city split on usage figures would be interesting.

I don't think i'm in a naive bubble here at all. I'm from rural area myself which i don't ever see as getting broadband(short of a satellite connection), my average dial in speed there was an even more mind numbing 4.1kbps, unusable basically unless you have infinite patience.

The majority of people in ireland live in cities anyway so it'd be a big bubble.

I don't think the porn statement is entirely fair either, and even if it was these people would be especially interested in a faster internet connection given the current slowness of viewing pictures or whatever. (so i've heard )

The internet maybe used at home by a tiny number of people precisely because its so slow, so they use it at work instead if they have it there(i've no figures for this either). and the ads advertising internet access at 10 times the current speed would certainly grab their attention.

I've no problems with Dave Longs representation of IOFFL and certainly wouldn't presume to think i could do any better. More publicity would be nice i know its difficult, but still i know a lot of IT people who've never heard of them.

_______
C.

VeeEmmy

Cuauhtemoc, so there's no misunderstanding ... the only comment in my last post referring to you was in relation to the "know/use" word. Everything that followed was just general comments in response to various things in this thread and my general pontificating.

I guess we'd need to refer to the surveys regarding actual use numbers. My impression is that most people (more than 50%) that I talk to/interact with, do not access the internet at home or work. And I also have vague memories of reading statistics that said less than 50% of the population uses the internet.

I work in Dublin for a large organisation and live in a small village, so my own personal immediate "sample of population" combines the two. I've done no actual studies. Just my unscientific impression. I haven't studied city vs town/village residential demographics.

My "naive bubble" comment was aimed at me and everyone - I think it is human tendency to think that our own priorities and conditions are the most important (for indeed, to us they are!), and should be important and interesting to the population at large. But tv news editors and politicians respond to what will get viewers or votes, not what is actually important.

Ban'