I'm Taking Eircom to Court

The Brigadier

Well guys I am about to take Eircom to court over their DSL service. I won't go into details here I'm afraid. However can anyone recommend a Solicitor in Dublin who would deal with this sort of issue?

Krouc

I am about to take Eircom to court

No need to take them, they're already there. They never seem to leave the courts.

And whats sadder is that they have all the money that is supposed to be used for upkeep and new technology etc.. to buy the best solicitors. And when a state body has trouble getting them to comply, I wonder what the man on the street can do.

Dont know any solicitors I could recommend to you, sorry. But in saying that, it shouldnt be any big deal to prove they are inept.

Best of luck.

Krouc

Lex_Diamonds

Johnny Cocrain!!!

antoinolachtnai

are you serious? you don't really give enough information for anyone to make an appropriate suggestion for a solicitor. It depends on what you're planning. If it's a small matter to do with billing, you could take it through the local district or circuit court, and someone local to you is your best bet. If you plan on going to the High Court and are prepared to spend a lot of money(maybe 20k-200k), you'd do well to talk to a number of the large firms in Dublin City Centre.

There's not a bad list at http://www.ucc.ie/ucc/depts/law/irishlaw/practitioners/ which might be a starting point.

But like I say, it's likely to be expensive, and it's a lot of hassle, so you'd better be pretty sure of yourself.

a.

dahamsta

Bill Holohan is CorkWAN's solicitor - he also has an office in Dublin. He's litigated against Eircom in the past, and seemed to enjoy it a little more than he should.

adam

Serbian

Originally posted by Lex_Diamonds
Johnny Cocrain!!!

I was going to suggest Kenneth Starr!

Anyway Arthur Cox is one of the top Law firms in Ireland. They even have a telecommunications practice group!

Obviously, one of the top = one of the most expensive.

You could also try Brian O'Donnel's firm

theciscokid

KPMG

The Brigadier

I'm only taking a personal claim against them. Claiming for loss of earnings and inconvenience caused by Eircom. After cancelling my DSL line, it took them 8 weeks to release my line for another provider!!

Sundy

is it a small claims court jobbie then?

The Brigadier

No, the small claims court will only deal with goods and services, for which you are asking for your money back.

I went down to them, they said I had to go through the district court

antoinolachtnai

Well, if that's what you want to litigate over, you can save yourself some money by looking at the 1983 act, section 88

http://193.120.124.98/ZZA24Y1983S88.html

88.—(1) Subject to subsection (3), the company shall be immune from all liability in respect of any loss or damage suffered by a person in the use of a service referred to in paragraph (a), (b) or (c) by reason of—

( a ) failure or delay in providing, operating or maintaining a telecommunications service,
( b ) failure, interruption, suspension or restriction of a telecommunications service,
( c ) any error or omission in a directory published by the company or any telegrams or telex messages transmitted by the company.
(2) The members of the staff of the company shall be immune from civil liability except at the suit of the company in respect of any loss or damage referred to in subsection (1).

( 3 ) ( a ) Section 39 of the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980, shall not apply to the provision of international services by the company.

( b ) The said section 39 shall not apply to the provision of telecommunications services within the State until such date as the Minister for Trade, Commerce and Tourism, after consultation with the Minister, by order provides, whether in relation to such services generally or in relation to services of a class defined in the order in such manner and by reference to such matters as the Minister for Trade, Commerce and Tourism, after such consultation, thinks proper.

So I don't think you're going to have much luck, unless you can show malice.

I believe, but am not certain, that Cox's act for eircom. They certainly used to, before the buyout. Therefore, it is extremely unlikely that they would be willing to act.

KPMG is an accounting firm, not a firm of solicitors.

spongebob

Comreg did not exist back in 1983 and there was no Consumer Law pertaining to Telecoms for which enforcememt Comreg has responsibility and not the ODCA

The legal position has moved on.

antoinolachtnai

Muck, what substantial change has their been on the key point? Eircom have almost no liability for damages. This situation has not changed.

As far as I can tell, the 1983 act is still the key legislation governing telecommunications in Ireland. A great deal of the stuff comreg does is still done pursuant to the 1983 Act.

The 1996 act (http://193.120.124.98/ZZA34Y1996.html) merely transfers the duties of the minister under the 1983 Act (and a few other acts, such as earlier acts and the wireless acts). The whole point of this was to allow for a degree of competition and the sale of eircom.

As far as I know, there is little or no 'consumer law' pertaining to telecomms. Perhaps someone else knows differently.

Comreg does not have much of a role in consumer law. It is basically a regulator, not a complaints board. The Director of Consumer Affairs still has a role in telecommunications disputes. For example, if you believe a term of your contract with your telco is unfair, you have recourse to the ODCA (see http://www.odtr.ie/about_us/default.asp?S=2&NavID=19&ctype=3&NID=100004 , third question). However, as far as I know, the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act still does not apply to eircom, though I could be wrong.)

Of course anyone who believes they might have a claim should consult a solicitor with specialised knowledge of the area.

The Brigadier

The point is not that by provision of a service eircom have caused a grievance. The issue is that they have with malice prevented any other company from providing me with a service.

I have strong documentary evidence of this.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by James Melody
The point is not that by provision of a service eircom have caused a grievance. The issue is that they have with malice prevented any other company from providing me with a service.

I have strong documentary evidence of this.

In addition to what was suggested by Antoin, you might consider approaching the competition authority with this. A long shot but it won't cost you anything. It might constitute 'abuse of a dominant position' under the competition act, 2000.

antoinolachtnai

You might consider approaching the competition authority with this.

Well, if he have the strong evidence, and it definitely isn't a mistake, James should certainly complain to comreg and TCA.

However, Comreg and TCA can't rule on damages, and probably won't enter into correspondence on the progress of the case, so he would probably have to go to court as well.

a.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by antoinolachtnai
However, Comreg and TCA can't rule on damages, and probably won't enter into correspondence on the progress of the case, so he would probably have to go to court as well.

Yes. Of course, Eircom would be more likely to settle out of court after a finding of abuse from the competition authority.

spongebob

Comreg (primarily) and The Competition Authority=TCA (secondarily) are collectively (by protocol in 01/2003) responsible for Competition in telecommunciations.

James is seking a remedy where Eircom acted in restraint of trade and where cComreg did not stop them. I would first seek a judicial review where eircom and comreg are injuncted from doing so further, this establishes the case.

I would further ask that Comreg and TCA be directed to investigate and ensure that this will not happen again and to put a system in place to protect others.

The written report of their investigation(s) will form the basis of the second court case where damages are sought for this illegal activity. Hopefully Comreg will also slap a fine on Eircom to focus them as well.

my 1.2c

theciscokid

i figure if your stuck for funds we all chip in a bit

antoinolachtnai

Do TCA publish the results of investigations? Not very often, I wouldn't think.

spongebob

they will if directed to by a court at injunction time.

BTW James, tell the mods here by PM when the papers are due to be served, they don't want to get done for Contempt as well. The thread must be locked at that point. Not deleted but locked.

M

antoinolachtnai

The courts can't use state agencies as an investigative arm. That's not the way our legal system works. It's an adversarial system, not an inquisitorial one.

spongebob

dereliction of duty by a Regulator who won;t Regulate is called " Institutional Failure"

the court can direct that this " Institutional Failure" be remediated by the institution, I did say that Comreg was the primary competition authority in Telecoms , did I not ? Read the protocol on the Comreg website from the beginning of this year. It appears that Comreg may clearly act 'in loco' TCA in this issue.

M

antoinolachtnai

Has an Irish court ever done this before?

spongebob

Institutional Failure is a regular in the courts. Say where a child is not being assesed for dyslexia or a dole claim is not processed in time. The courts then direct that due process is followed by the failing institution.

The institutional failure here is 2 fold.

1. Eircom blocked a competitor from access to James' line, contrary to regulations.
2. The Regulator did not enforce the regulations that should have guaranteed access to James' line at James' discretion.

That is your case James?

M

antoinolachtnai

Institutional Failure is a regular in the courts. Say where a child is not being assesed for dyslexia or a dole claim is not processed in time. The courts then direct that due process is followed by the failing institution.

The case about dyslexia was a constitutional issue. There wasn't any failure, just differing opinions.

I don't know what sort of dole claim case you are talking about. However I assume you are talking about getting a judicial review if you refused your dole.

Neither of these seem comparable to me. There's no constitutional issue and there's nothing to judicially review.

Nobody is stopping James from seeking to be vindicated by the courts and seeking damages directly.

Antoin.

spongebob

Originally posted by antoinolachtnai
Muck, what substantial change has their been on the key point? Eircom have almost no liability for damages. This situation has not changed.

Of course anyone who believes they might have a claim should consult a solicitor with specialised knowledge of the area.

?!????*!?

If you hadn't stated what you did in the first paragraph there then I wouldn't have suggested a different approach to a 'pure' damages claim.

I agree with your final point , off with you James and good luck.

The Brigadier

I have registered a complaint with comreg.. I have to wait for up to 10 working days however for a reply...

when I have that I will take my next step.

Eurorunner

best of luck in your rat slaying:D

FirA_Fascio

honestly i hope you win your case. in my view eircom should be sued by everyone in the country. eircom lie to us, they deceive us, they rip us off and deprive us of our badly-needed broadband services. at this point, ADSL is out of date, and eircom STILL havent let allowed the majority even access it, as most non-dublin eircom lines are only operating at 14.4K. even some dublin lines are only going at 28.8K because of the nationwide eircom line-splitter scam.

sue them good!

FirA_Serjio

Oh plz tell us all what happens if u actually do bring em to court, and what can u do? get sumthin foxed or are u actually getting money off them? omg eircom suck YEAH U HEARD ME U DAMNED SUCKERS

spongebob

OMFG its the FIRA-ngee

mad4chel

Not sure what the original issue was exactly but My company was going to install ISDN for me and it took 8 weeks for me to find out that my exchange is not capable of providing it, despite being told during the install(admittedly only by the engineer) that it was available. ISDN is at least a generation of technology behind. They still haven't the decency to inform us I had to chase them down for the info. Needless to say I had bought the modem the new phones the whole 9 yards. I was wondering how to be absolutley certain where the nearest exchange was that could provide ISDN?

I use another billing service for my landline and Eircom telesales rings every other week looking to know if we will be switching back - we keep saying send us on the pricing details - the pricing details never arrive only an application form.

They really need a serious competitor to shake them UP!!

gombín

Quote:
I was wondering how to be absolutley certain where the nearest exchange was that could provide ISDN?

What area are you in?

Regards.

Serbian

Originally posted by James Melody
I have registered a complaint with comreg.. I have to wait for up to 10 working days however for a reply...

when I have that I will take my next step.

That was posted on the 29th June. Hear anything back?

Serb

mad4chel

The exchange is in BallyCondon which is near glendine just inside the Waterford side of the Cork/Waterford Border. Near Youghal/Tallow Road.

It seems EsatBT can provide ISDN if you are near a railway line which I am not. They can also provide a concotted wireless to Eircom ISDn exchange and do the billing but sure I am goosed there aswell cos the exchange still won't handle it.

I was looking at comreg and interesting that some of the surveys 50% were happy to think of Ireland as a centre for ecommerce?

shinzon

My friend on the cork road in waterford applied for broadband in june, his line passed the pre-qual test and he went ahead and ordered it online, only to be told that the Tycor Exchange had not been upgraded, he says fair enough hed wait tilll it was, flash forward to last Friday when i told him the tycor exchange was upgraded, he happily went off to ring eircom to reactivate his order

Guess what

Sorry sir your line no longer passes the pre-qual test for broadband we cannot offer you broaband at this time, would you be interested in HI-SPEED instead

****ers

Shin

mad4chel

Which kinda brings me back to the scenario of how I could know for certain.

The Brigadier

Ohhhh...Eircom are so incompetant....

I heard back from them TODAY in regard to Comreg.

I told them of all the difficulties, they asked when I had disconnected. I told them the 7th of May. They then told me I had not been without service as I had been making voice calls on the line?? Arggghhh...

Do Eircom even know what DSL is??? This is from one of the senior people in their customer care department,....