New electrics in an old house

dairbhre · 13-09-2005 3:42pm #1

I have just bought a 30 year old house which needs new sockets etc added. I plan to chase the block walls myself and have a local electrician to install the wiring and fittings. Do I need to get this work certified? Does the electrician need to be certified? What should I ask for with regard to qualifications and so on?

Anybody got any tips on chasing block walls?

FX Meister · 13-09-2005 6:31pm

Rent a chasing machine and kango for chasing the walls. I'm not sure if you can get that work certified, you may need to get the whole house rewired. The electrician doesn't need to be certified to carry out the work but he must be registered with reci to do the cert himself. Otherwise you can get reci to test and issue the cert which is about €300 or so. Any mistakes and you have to pay the same again for a retest. I don't really see any point in having a cert for new work carried out though and you won't pass reci standards as it is. I had my house rewired last year, it was about the same age as yours. Unfortunately the guy was a bit of a cowboy. He didn't do bad work, just not up to standard. I'm going to finich the work myself, get a mate to test it and then get the reci cert.

davelerave · 13-09-2005 8:16pm

dairbhre wrote:

I have just bought a 30 year old house which needs new sockets etc added. I plan to chase the block walls myself and have a local electrician to install the wiring and fittings. Do I need to get this work certified? Does the electrician need to be certified? What should I ask for with regard to qualifications and so on?

Anybody got any tips on chasing block walls?

wall chasers are alright sometimes plasterers prefer a regular chase with a kango for better patching.get a reci contractor you'll probably need to upgrade bonding ,earthrod and fusebox at least.sometimes new cable from fusebox to esb meter

dairbhre · 15-09-2005 2:31pm

Thanks guys,
Basically I need to get an electrician who is RECI registered and get him to certify the work!

I assume that if I do the whole thing myself, I could then be in trouble with the insurance should there be an accident with any part of the wiring?

Any idea what the labour for 7 new sockets, a new Fuse board and wiring for a new electric shower would cost me in this bungalow?

Stoner · 15-09-2005 6:15pm

dairbhre,

Getting this work certified will be difficult. Many sparks wont issue a cert for old buildings. What you need is a Partial Cert, if you make the sparks aware of it they'll get you one, a full cert may require a full rewire, the lads mentioned reasons why bonding etc being the main falldown of old houses. I'd throw a guess of about 1060 euro ex mcd and vat on your works. Maybe I'm right or wrong, its too small a job for us so I've kind of lost touch with smaller contrator rates but you might get it done for less as a knixer

Sparky · 15-09-2005 8:57pm

if its a full rewire it will need a completion cert because since its 30 yrs since it was rewired last, the mains tails from the meter will be 6 or 10 sq and need to be updated to 16sq cables this needs an esb man for and they will not come out to a premises without a completion cert sent into the esb, the esb will also issue a new meter aswell and a new cutout. This also insures that your shower will not put full load on the mains in the house.

the completion cert has a tick box on it for additional work to an existing house, but the sparks wont issue a cert for work he hasnt done.

Id assume the existing fuseboard is an old fuse type and doesnt have an RCD so this can be a problem when it comes to earthing, your best bet is to get a quote for a full rewire as its been 30 yrs since its last rewire and a lot of changes in regulations reguarding earthing and bonding have come in to effect since then.
plus your insurance company wlso like to hear of house's being updated so there isnt a risk of electrical fires etc.

stag39 · 16-09-2005 8:49am

To follow on from spary_s...defo get the house rewired...just think of it as an investment...if you keep old wiring...do up the house the way you want it..wallpaper etc...then rewire has to be done for insurance purposes...oops should have done it at the start...Rewire foir a 3 bed bungelow if attic not floored, with standard fittings i estimate...only estimate now...to cost in the region 3,500euro...

if you chase the walls yourself.. check to see what blockwork is in the walls... if cavity, you will make a mess of the walls with a kango, if not skilled in it!!

best of luck for your new house anyway!!!

niall..
Hirsch Electrical

Jackz · 19-09-2005 10:03am

Is the house is currently connected to the grid ? Unless your insurance provider stipulates you don't need a certificate?

stag39 · 19-09-2005 5:17pm

Jackz wrote:

Is the house is currently connected to the grid ? Unless your insurance provider stipulates you don't need a certificate?

if the house is to be rewired, even if the house is connected the grid you need a certficate for the new wiring and if the existing tails to the meter arn't up to regulations the esb have to come out to connect them to the meter and may have to upgade their side totaly!!!! jackz are you a qulified sparks??

Stoner · 19-09-2005 5:42pm

I think the OP just wanted some new sockets, he was advised to rewire the place by people here. Therefore if the guy has a house thats hooked up already to the ESB and he adds some sockets , the ESB do not need to get involved and no cert is required. If your worried about the quality of work then the electrician could give you a partial cert for the works he has done, this cert is of no interest to the ESB in this case.

dairbhre · 19-09-2005 9:04pm

Hi guys, The house is on the grid alright but hasn't really been occupied much over its lifetime. There is only 1 socket in each room, so I want to put in at least 1 more in bedrooms and a couple in the kitchen. Also I need to wire for an electric shower as well. The fuse board will need to be changed as it is the old type with just fuses. If I decide to get the whole thing re-wired, does everything have to be ripped out? as I assume that what is there is OK. There are a few guys in the area (it's rural Ireland) trying to make a go of it as electricians, but only one of them is a member of Ecssa and none are members of Reci. What do I do? I assume Ecssa is as good a recomendation as Reci?

davelerave · 19-09-2005 9:38pm

i'm a reci man myself dairbhre but there's good electricians working in both.get a good electrician who's registered (who can issue a cert)to cover the work he does and if neccessary for the esb.some of your exising wires can stay if they're pvc and wired straight to the board .you should be able to get a free estimate and advice in a rural area anyway.

Victor · 19-09-2005 10:36pm

If its 30 years old, find out what the conduits are like before you rip the walls apart.

Jackz · 20-09-2005 5:19pm

No im not a qualified electrician. Was just my opinion.

dairbhre · 22-09-2005 8:20pm

Guy,

I assume from all of this that since:

1. The fuse box will have to be upgraded and

2. The wiring from the fuse box to the ESB meter will have to be upgraded

That I will need the ESB to disconnect and re-connect in order to complete the job.

Therefore a Cert will be required.

stag39 · 22-09-2005 9:38pm

the sparks should be able put the origional tails in the new f.board as a temporary measure...
also an r.c.d. ( residual current device )will be put into the new fuseboard....

the earth bonding will also need to be upgraded..10 sq earth to water, gas and earth rod also new earth rod....2.5 earth for rad pipes in bathroom to be cross bonded as well as pipes leading to sink and bath..
2.5 earth from nearest socket to kitchen sink...as long as the pipe are copper..plastic pipes don't need/can't to be bonded..

yes a cert will be required...

niall

patrickolee · 22-09-2005 11:04pm

Just a follow up question, as I'm in a similar situation. Bought a house in Crumlin, hoping to do a complete re-wire. Someone pointed out to me that the ground floor of those houses is solid concrete treated with bitchamin (spelt wrong I'm sure). I'm worried if I chase this floor the damp proof course will be invalidated. Should I re-treat in some way after wiring and refilling?

stag39 · 23-09-2005 12:44pm

patrickolee wrote:

Just a follow up question, as I'm in a similar situation. Bought a house in Crumlin, hoping to do a complete re-wire. Someone pointed out to me that the ground floor of those houses is solid concrete treated with bitchamin (spelt wrong I'm sure). I'm worried if I chase this floor the damp proof course will be invalidated. Should I re-treat in some way after wiring and refilling?

just get the electrician to run everything down the wall...should be no great problem...no need to go near the floor...

although most houses in crumlin have only 3inch walls...if so just go slow..drill the route with enough depth for the wavin conduit and chip away the concrete..

tcs · 23-09-2005 8:58pm

It's the internal walls that are only 3" thick but the external walls are mass concrete - we chased a similar house a few months ago in Drimnagh and nearly killed ourselves on the external walls - internal walls were so thin and soft that we ended up busting right through them in places! Be careful about that if you're chasing yourself & prepare for a hard slog on the external walls.

stag39 · 24-09-2005 1:53pm

tcs wrote:

It's the internal walls that are only 3" thick but the external walls are mass concrete - we chased a similar house a few months ago in Drimnagh and nearly killed ourselves on the external walls - internal walls were so thin and soft that we ended up busting right through them in places! Be careful about that if you're chasing yourself & prepare for a hard slog on the external walls.

did a rewire for a client...chased everything in...never went near the floor...didn't use a kango...
just a drill bit every 2 inches or so down each side of the route to be chased.......didn't kill me...
and caused only a little breakout on the far side of a 3 inch wall around a light switch....thats all the extra damage i caused.

the origional sparks years ago put a great big peice of sodding wood behind all the switches in the 3inch walls...so put the switches at differnt heights if they were back to back...

patrickolee · 24-09-2005 9:02pm

Thanks for the advice guys...

New electrics in an old house

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