Creation V Evolution Debate

Quote (Just Half)
You ask us to reject science and embrace God, but this is a false dichotomy. It is possible to love God and be a scientist. It is possible to believe that evolution is how God brought human kind about.

Just Half, you are correct, it is an obviously falsity to maintain that in order to embrace God we must reject the scientific study of His created Universe.
I wholeheartedly embrace BOTH God and Science. Not only is it possible to love Jesus Christ and to be a scientist – it is possible to be a Bible-believing Christian AND a scientist operating at the very “cutting edge” of scientific research.

Being a BIBLE BELIEVING Christian and a BELIEVER in Evolution is a little more difficult to reconcile. Genesis 1 is pretty clear – it describes 6 literal days of God’s work of Creation, even emphasising the fact that each literal day had an actual evening and a morning!!! See Gen 1:5, 1:8, 1:13, 1:19, 1:23 and 1:31.

In case, anybody missed the point, Exodus 20:11 re-emphasises that the basis for the seven day week is God’s 7 day Creation Week. If the original 7 day Creation Week is the basis for our 7 day week, then the “Theistic Evolutionary” concept of a 70 million, or should that be a 700 million year “Creation Week” is certainly quite a novelty!!! I would hate to be waiting for the weekend to come around if the Theistic Evolutionists time frame applied to our working week!!

Jesus is referred to as “The Last Adam” in 1 Cor 15:45 – and without a literal First Adam this would be meaningless. In fact, without the Fall of Adam and Eve from grace, there would not be any reason for God to send his only begotten son Jesus Christ to save humanity from their sin, which according to Rom 5:12, “entered the world through ONE MAN and death through sin”.
Any form of evolution, either “theistic” or “secular”, requires death millions of years before the emergence of Mankind – which is in straight contradiction of Rom 5:12.
Any way, why would God take “the long way round” to create us, using death and cut-throat competition as indispensable ingredients of so-called “evolutionary progress” on the way? If He did, why didn’t He say so?
The Bible makes it clear that death is a direct result of a Man and a Woman’s DECISION to misuse God’s gift of free-will to defy God, and not because God deliberately decided to use death to perfect his original creation.

Of course, God COULD create the Universe and all living organisms in 6 seconds, in 6 days or over 6 billion years. He has told us that it was 6 days – and all repeatable observed phenomena support a rapid Creation and a young Earth. That is good enough for me – until somebody shows me repeatable observable evidence i.e. SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE to the contrary.

Quote (Robindch)
No, I'm afraid not (that everyone has accepted evolution). See http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=235658 and fhttp://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=224944 for evidence of the opposite in the recent debate on the Skeptics board, where a couple of creationists turned up and got roasted.

Robin is correct, that everybody certainly DOESN’T accept Evolution – and in America the evolutionists appear to be in an ever dwindling minority – in spite of the unquestioning “wall to wall” media endorsement of evolution. As for the “roasting” that I supposedly got on the “Skeptics” board – I would urge everyone to visit the two (now closed) threads to which Robin has kindly posted links above.
On the first thread I proved that Evolution ISN’T a valid Scientific Theory without any SUBSTANTIVE REBUTTAL from the sceptics – who summarily closed the thread down without warning. On the second thread I asked four simple, yet fundamental questions about evolution – and no valid answers were given – but again the thread was suddenly closed down in “mid debate” so-to-speak without any substantive answers forthcoming.
The sudden unilateral closure of the threads and the distinct lack of answers coming from the “sceptics” may be related – but I will leave you to be the judge of that!!!! My own view is that it was scientific evolutionism that was “roasted” – on both threads.

The “game has been up” for evolution for some time, especially since the breakthroughs in our understanding of the organised complexity of the living cell through electron microscopy and molecular biology. We have now scientifically established that cells have functional complexities of a similar order of magnitude to large cities, but at a molecular level of resolution. Many EVOLUTIONARY biologists will privately admit that evolution is a ”dead duck”. Some leading former evolutionists such as Sir Fred Hoyle publicly abandoned evolution years ago.

If Genesis 1 is a myth that may be interpreted as one wishes – then the question arises as to where the fiction stops and the facts start in the Bible – or do “Theistic Evolutionists” believe that the entire Bible is just a collection of nice stories with no basis in reality?

I believe that the entire Bible is firmly grounded in reality and that “all scripture is God breathed and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness”. II Tim 3:16 (NIV).
I believe that the Universe and the Bible are both tremendous “statements of fact” by an all powerful and sovereign God who has warned us in Deut 8:3 and Mt 4:4 that “Man does not live on bread alone but on EVERY WORD that comes from the mouth of God”. (NIV). Where parables are being employed in the Bible, it is quite clear from both the language and the context that this is being done – and neither the language nor the context would indicate that Genesis 1 is a parable.

I too used be an evolutionist – and a number of things pushed me in the direction of Creation Science. I suppose it all started with the smug statements that I observed being “heaped upon” “Genesis-Literalists” by evolutionists (of both the theistic and the secular varieties). Out of a sense of balance, I studied some of the Creation Science literature – and to my surprise, I observed thoughtful, high quality scientific papers, with conclusions based upon repeatable observations – and I had no choice as a professional objective scientist but to accept them. And the rest as they say is history.

The final "clincher" was when I read Rom 1:19-20 and I realised that the Universe and all of life was given to us by God as PROOF that He exists and created us:-
”Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities – his eternal power and divine nature – have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.” Rom 1:19-20 (NIV).

I found myself without excuse and I accepted His FREE GIFT of ETERNAL SALVATION – and I haven’t ‘looked back’ since!!

I don’t claim to have all the answer – but I now personally KNOW somebody who does!!!

I read somewhere that Natural Selection may explain the SURVIVAL of the fittest – but it doesn’t explain the ARRIVAL of the fittest. Evolution “from GOO to YOU via the ZOO” requires a massive INCREASE in genetic information – and Information Theory shows that new information invariably originates with an intelligent source – and NOT through random natural processes.

Evolution is AT BEST a working scientific hypothesis, or more accurately a collection of many different (often contradictory) working hypotheses. It has never merited the appellation of the word theory in it’s proper scientific meaning – i.e. a precise description and explanation of observed phenomena that is accessible to testing by repeatable observation or experimentation. To remain valid, phenomena must always be observed that are in accordance with and/or predicted by the theory.

Evolution doesn’t pass muster on any count
1. It has never been precisely defined, it is highly speculative and is subject to continuous revision as new phenomena are encountered which are not in accordance with the current most acceptable “theory”.
2. It is impossible to observe hypothetical events that may / may not have occurred supposedly over millions of years – and it is equally impossible to frame experiments to do so either. Core aspects of Evolution are incapable of being tested by repeatable observation or experimentation –and therefore can only be believed in through FAITH.
3. Evolution fails even more miserably on the scientific validity test – repeatedly, phenomena are observed that are not in accordance with or predicted by the current most acceptable “theory” – thereby necessitating the constant revisionism outlined at point 1 above. For example, Darwin’s “Gradual Evolution” predicted that as fossils were discovered in larger numbers the missing links between different species would be filled in by intermediate types. This didn’t happen and “Punctuated Evolution” was proposed – without even an acknowledgement that Gradual Evolution had become an invalid hypothesis.