Building a Garden Wall with Floating Bench and Lighting

karlitob · 03-05-2021 2:47pm #1

Hi all

I’m currently designing the garden and plan to have two seating areas in an ‘L’ shape opposite each other.

There are two main areas that I was hoping to get comments and opinions on - the wall itself and then the bench.

1) the wall
- block on flat for maximum strength and the width is like in the wall

2) the bench
- the question here is the stability of the cantilever. I was thinking of burying box steel into the wall itself and then plank the steel for a seat.

- any suggestions on how to get power to the brick lights while keeping the clean look. Presumably chasing.

I think there’s enough text on the pics. As I say, appreciate any comments. Thanks.

karlitob · 03-05-2021 2:47pm

Pics

meercat · 03-05-2021 5:33pm

For the lights I’d consider led ribbon or led rope under the seating

karlitob · 03-05-2021 6:15pm

meercat wrote: »

For the lights I’d consider led ribbon or led rope under the seating

I was thinking about that. Not entirely sure I like the look, rather than spot lighting.

Where you thinking look or ease?

I’m wondering how I get the cable from the ground up the wall - presumably I’d have to chase?

Lumen · 03-05-2021 9:52pm

You'll need an electrician to do the mains wiring but maybe you can have that terminated alongside an IP rated transformer and then just run discrete low voltage cables to the lights.

You won't see wiring anyway as it's underneath the bench.

karlitob · 03-05-2021 11:17pm

Lumen wrote: »

You'll need an electrician to do the mains wiring but maybe you can have that terminated alongside an IP rated transformer and then just run discrete low voltage cables to the lights.

You won't see wiring anyway as it's underneath the bench.

Thanks for that.

Any insights or comments on the wall.

All look ok?

Interested to hear views on the cantilever box steel.

Lumen · 03-05-2021 11:22pm

karlitob wrote: »

Thanks for that.

Any insights or comments on the wall.

All look ok?

Interested to hear views on the cantilever box steel.

I'd say it'll be fine as long as none of your guests are over 2 tonnes or so.

Assume it will be suitably treated so that it doesn't turn into a pile of rust.

ted1 · 03-05-2021 11:36pm

Would you consider a bracket ?

https://www.commercialwashroomsltd.co.uk/changing-room-equipment/wall-mounted-cantilever-bench-seat-frame-bracket.html

karlitob · 04-05-2021 8:05am

Lumen wrote: »

I'd say it'll be fine as long as none of your guests are over 2 tonnes or so.

Assume it will be suitably treated so that it doesn't turn into a pile of rust.

Too much?

Couldn’t figure out the span-depth ratio weight etc.

Is box steel not galvanised?

karlitob · 04-05-2021 8:07am

ted1 wrote: »

Would you consider a bracket ?

https://www.commercialwashroomsltd.co.uk/changing-room-equipment/wall-mounted-cantilever-bench-seat-frame-bracket.html

Yes spotted those. Would prefer something more straight forward - just wanted to make sure it was as strong as it could be - buried into the wall.

Spotted this method on the web at some stage and thought it looked good. No brackets hanging down either?

Lumen · 04-05-2021 8:18am

karlitob wrote: »

Too much?

Couldn’t figure out the span-depth ratio weight etc.

Is box steel not galvanised?

No, AFAIK standard box is mild steel.

Galvanization is typically done after fabrication (cutting, welding and drilling) otherwise you end up with uncoated cut edges.

Presumably oxide paint would offer reasonable protection.

listermint · 04-05-2021 8:25am

Personally I'd choose the cantilever brackets linked. I envisage your method levering the brick and or mortar loose. Metal and water ingress would expand and contract loosening the mortar around box steel unless you sealed and rendered the face. It's the steel pinned to the wall behind?

karlitob · 04-05-2021 8:28am

Lumen wrote: »

No, AFAIK standard box is mild steel.

Galvanization is typically done after fabrication (cutting, welding and drilling) otherwise you end up with uncoated cut edges.

Presumably oxide paint would offer reasonable protection.

Thanks for this.

What about heavy duty steel that I could bolt into the coarse of blocks, lay mortar and another course over it. Something like attached.

Presume I need to speak with a fabricator.

awec · 04-05-2021 9:35am

I'd go higher than 3 courses for the seat. Is that not a bit low?

karlitob · 04-05-2021 10:43am

awec wrote: »

I'd go higher than 3 courses for the seat. Is that not a bit low?

Yeah - I’ve been thinking about that.

First course is partially underground. So
- 60 of block + 10 mortar
- 3 coarses of block + 10 mortar
- 30mm of the slats
That comes to 430mm. What do you think? Too low.

Another course would make it 530mm which seems a bit high. Cant find standard seating dimensions - except table and chairs you buy for kitchen etx

karlitob · 04-05-2021 10:47am

listermint wrote: »

Personally I'd choose the cantilever brackets linked. I envisage your method levering the brick and or mortar loose. Metal and water ingress would expand and contract loosening the mortar around box steel unless you sealed and rendered the face.

Understood. Thank you.

I am planning on rendering it. The pic of the reverse shows the render - wanted to show exposed block for discussion.

listermint wrote: »

It's the steel pinned to the wall behind?

Can you explain that again? If I take you right, that steel goes all the way through. So 215mm sits on the block on flat and 380mm protrudes. I think that’s 40% in he brick and 60% out.

Had wondered about a flat heavy duty piece of steel that could sit on the block but bolted down?

Lumen · 04-05-2021 11:13am

karlitob wrote: »

Had wondered about a flat heavy duty piece of steel that could sit on the block but bolted down?

You'll probably get a bit of spring in that. I ran the numbers for 100kg in the middle of a 25mmx10mmx400mm mild steel bar and got 5mm deflection at the unsupported end.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing - might make it a bit more comfortable to sit down on.

taffey · 04-05-2021 11:53am

Wouldn't think there would be enough strength in the Blockwork over the brackets to support the weigh of many people.

karlitob · 04-05-2021 6:30pm

Lumen wrote: »

You'll probably get a bit of spring in that. I ran the numbers for 100kg in the middle of a 25mmx10mmx400mm mild steel bar and got 5mm deflection at the unsupported end.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing - might make it a bit more comfortable to sit down on.

Thanks for that. Very interesting.

Any suggestion on spacing of that mild steel bar.

I guess there would be 3 people in the 3m section and 4 people in the 3.7m section at most at 100kg per person (I and my friends are fairly big boys). Appreciate any insights.

...Ghost... · 04-05-2021 8:13pm

You can get galvanised box steel, but for your application I would suggest you just prime and zinc coat the cut steel. You could bring the finished cuts to get galvanised which is cheap enough but you'll be waiting about a week to collect it.

If you want to slot 100x100 into the wall, you need to take a different approach than relying on the weight of the wall and mortar to secure the beams. I would recommend you bolt each length to the top face of each brick with 2 concrete bolts and would use M10 bolts of atleast 140mm to allow a good 30mm of bite but I would go longer. The DeWalt bluetip stuff is great. For the end of the beam farthest from the wall, you could cut this at a wedge angle to help hide it.

If you haven't built the wall yet (assume you haven't) then you could run the wire up through the brick in conduit, or chase and render.

Have the seats at a reasonable height, or you'll find them fiercely uncomfortable to sit on after a short time.

I don't know what lighting effect you are after, but you could run led strips on the underside of the box steel with a diffuser and you will get a lovely effect from that. Alternatively, run the strip under one of the cedar planks, but you'll need to cut out small sections of the wood to run the wire over the steel. Either way will look great.

Lumen · 04-05-2021 8:33pm

karlitob wrote: »

Thanks for that. Very interesting.

Any suggestion on spacing of that mild steel bar.

I guess there would be 3 people in the 3m section and 4 people in the 3.7m section at most at 100kg per person (I and my friends are fairly big boys). Appreciate any insights.

Space the bars to support the timber. No more than 600mm I'd say. Have you decided what timber profile you're using? Decking?

I have oiled Yellow Balau / Bangkirai decking and it's bloody lovely.

You need to think about fixings though.

karlitob · 10-05-2021 6:33pm

Can I get a steer on the following.

I’m gonna build a garden wall in the middle (not the middle but you get what I mean) of the patio. I’m gonna excavate soon for the sub base but thought I’d put down the foundations for the wall first. Two L-shapes at 3m x 3.7m each.

My question is - if my levels are right - it looks as though when my wall is built I’d be excavating down to below the foundation to put in the sub base. Does that seem right?

This wall is for sitting and I’m sure people will be leaning on it so I want it to be strong.

Thanks all.

karlitob · 14-05-2021 5:19pm

karlitob wrote: »

Can I get a steer on the following.

I’m gonna build a garden wall in the middle (not the middle but you get what I mean) of the patio. I’m gonna excavate soon for the sub base but thought I’d put down the foundations for the wall first. Two L-shapes at 3m x 3.7m each.

My question is - if my levels are right - it looks as though when my wall is built I’d be excavating down to below the foundation to put in the sub base. Does that seem right?

This wall is for sitting and I’m sure people will be leaning on it so I want it to be strong.

Thanks all.

Any insight on this query? Thanks.

Building a Garden Wall with Floating Bench and Lighting

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