Triple glaze windows noisy neighbours

Kaleb2015 · 26-01-2021 1:09am #1

Just wondering if it’s worth my while getting triple glaze windows. My neighbours house is a mirror image of ours so our front doors and living room windows are straight across from each other. I’d say their house is roughly 40ft away but they have surround sound on at all hours, slam the front door constantly. The wife sits in the car blasting music almost every night. They seem to open the front door for no apparent reason and leave it open for hours on end and all you can hear even with our tv turned up is them arguing from inside the house. Obviously we are sick of this and would rather not have to listen to it so would triple glazing dampen it? Thanks in advance.

Lumen · 26-01-2021 12:26pm

A friend of mine lives on a roundabout and standing in the front bedrooms you can hear nothing. It's like watching a movie with the sound off.

They got double glazing (4/16/4) but paid extra for a "full acoustic" option, it was about 1-1.5k extra. I'm not sure exactly what that involved.

Importantly though, they also had MHRV fitted so have no wall vents.

There are separate arguments for triple over double glazing (principally energy efficiency) but they're not necessarily better for sound insulation.

listermint · 26-01-2021 12:28pm

Lumen wrote: »

A friend of mine lives on a roundabout and standing in the front bedrooms you can hear nothing. It's like watching a movie with the sound off.

They got double glazing (4/16/4) but paid extra for a "full acoustic" option, it was about 1-1.5k extra. I'm not sure exactly what that involved.

Importantly though, they also had MHRV fitted so have no wall vents.

There are separate arguments for triple over double glazing (principally energy efficiency) but they're not necessarily better for sound insulation.

Acoustic option .ooo wonder what that entails.

Lumen · 26-01-2021 12:54pm

listermint wrote: »

Acoustic option .ooo wonder what that entails.

Foam and tape, probably!

TheBoyConor · 26-01-2021 1:04pm

Special acoustic silicones and expanding foams

Calahonda52 · 26-01-2021 2:46pm

listermint wrote: »

Acoustic option .ooo wonder what that entails.

Did you not hear the man! ?:D

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Special acoustic silicones and expanding foams

more like doing the job right

JimmyMW · 26-01-2021 3:12pm

listermint wrote: »

Acoustic option .ooo wonder what that entails.

It should be an acoustic interlayer in a laminate pane, if you ask for the glass data sheet it should be on it. sign up to the guardian glass assistant and you will be able to see all your acoustic reduction options on there, its very handy.

TheBoyConor · 26-01-2021 3:14pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

more like doing the job right

As they say, try your best, silicone the rest.

MicktheMan · 27-01-2021 11:18pm

OP, what you are talking about is air tightness or the lack of.

Did you ever wonder when sitting in a car with single glazed windows why you need to crack a window open in order to have a conversation with someone outside the car? it is because the cabin of a modern car is very well air sealed, otherwise the noise inside at motorway speed would be deafening.

A house is the same so no point in getting very expensive windows installed if a) they are poorly installed wrt airtightness and b) if other elements in the house are leaky.

Yellow_Fern · 02-02-2021 2:05am

I presume sound can enter via leaky reveals too.

GarySmith · 02-02-2021 10:32am

Its true sound will enter if we have any leaky reveals in the house, so it’s like same as in a car, do we wonder when inside the car can’t listen or speak to a person outside the car, as we need to open the window a bit to listen and same when driving on highways or motorways. So same as in the case of our homes we can do best without investing in the expensive windows, as we need to focus and check if there is not any leaky point in the house and installation should be done in airtightness way and all will be fine.

02-02-2021 11:03am

Lumen wrote: »

A friend of mine lives on a roundabout and standing in the front bedrooms you can hear nothing. It's like watching a movie with the sound off.

They got double glazing (4/16/4) but paid extra for a "full acoustic" option, it was about 1-1.5k extra. I'm not sure exactly what that involved.

Importantly though, they also had MHRV fitted so have no wall vents.

There are separate arguments for triple over double glazing (principally energy efficiency) but they're not necessarily better for sound insulation.

I was given the opposite opinion by a person (who was not in the business of selling windows) but deals with insulation/airtightness in the calculations and design end, and his comment on windows was that good quality double glazed windows are as good as triple glazed for insulation purposes or so close that the difference is negligible compared to the downsides (increased cost/weight). I recal him mentioning coatings, and it seems these make a difference (emissivity), I think they reflect heat back into the building. My recollection was he said triple glazed were more specifically for the additional sound insulation and that's where they made a difference (although they could have good insulating properties).

Lumen · 02-02-2021 11:26am

1874 wrote: »

I was given the opposite opinion by a person (who was not in the business of selling windows) but deals with insulation/airtightness in the calculations and design end, and his comment on windows was that good quality double glazed windows are as good as triple glazed for insulation purposes or so close that the difference is negligible compared to the downsides (increased cost/weight). I recal him mentioning coatings, and it seems these make a difference (emissivity), I think they reflect heat back into the building. My recollection was he said triple glazed were more specifically for the additional sound insulation and that's where they made a difference (although they could have good insulating properties).

The best demonstration of insulation properties is condensation on the outside of the window. Anecdotally, I've seen people report this with triple glazing but not double, although I appreciate that's not very scientific.

The same coatings can (and should!) be applied to triple as to double, so those aren't a distinguishing factor.

In terms of sound insulation of the IGU there are three factors:

- Total mass of glazing
- Differentials in materials between the panes (e.g. plastic lamination)
- Differentials in pane spacing, to deal with different resonant frequencies

In terms of thermal performance of the IGU the main factors are:

- Total pane spacing (the sum of all spaces)
- The gas used to fill the spaces
- The coatings used on the glass

Only the first of these is affected by the choice of double vs triple, since in a lot of cases the total IGU thickness is determined by the frame design rather than what is optimal from an insulation perspective. If you fix the total IGU thickness then the extra pane in triple glazing actually gives you a lower total controlled air gap (but only 4mm or so).

The best-performing IGUs will have wide total spacing (e.g 32mm) and differential spacing, and differences in pane thickness and material. This is actually pretty easy to achieve if you have a frame that can receive a sufficiently deep IGU, since all the different pane and spacer sizes are available from the IGU manufacturers e.g. you could specify 4-18-6-14-4 or whatever, if you could find a frame that could take a 46mm IGU.

And then there are all the non-IGU components, which are therefore nothing to do with double vs triple, like:

- Quality of installation (air tightness, quality and consistent application of foams and sealants etc)
- Thermal and acoustic performance of the frames

Anyway, that's my amateur glazing braindump. I await correction by the professionals...

Yellow_Fern · 02-02-2021 12:15pm

1874 wrote: »

I was given the opposite opinion by a person (who was not in the business of selling windows) but deals with insulation/airtightness in the calculations and design end, and his comment on windows was that good quality double glazed windows are as good as triple glazed for insulation purposes or so close that the difference is negligible compared to the downsides (increased cost/weight). I recal him mentioning coatings, and it seems these make a difference (emissivity), I think they reflect heat back into the building. My recollection was he said triple glazed were more specifically for the additional sound insulation and that's where they made a difference (although they could have good insulating properties).

Triple glaze are a lot warmer but its pay off is really low and actually I dont think they ever do pay for themselves in a Irish retrofit. There are so many things you could do that are better. However if you house has vast numbers of windows it might be quite uncomfortable with just double glze.

iColdFusion · 02-02-2021 12:24pm

Was in a new extension a few years back and was quite surprised at the light loss/darkening of outside through the triple glazed windows they had put in, one was open so you could clearly see the difference, not sure if they had any particular coating on them.

Lumen · 02-02-2021 12:31pm

iColdFusion wrote: »

Was in a new extension a few years back and was quite surprised at the light loss/darkening of outside through the triple glazed windows they had put in, one was open so you could clearly see the difference, not sure if they had any particular coating on them.

You might get 77% with double and 70% with triple, so that's 10% less, but the other factor is frame-to-glazing ratio, which depends on design but generally wood > pvc > alu > steel (I think), and that also affects thermals.

So double glazed wood might let through less light than triple glazed alu, if the alu has a thinner frame profile.

The other consideration is that the eye has a non-linear response to light cos pupils and brains, so 10% less transmittance won't seem 10% darker.

mloc123 · 02-02-2021 12:36pm

Lumen wrote: »

The best demonstration of insulation properties is condensation on the outside of the window. Anecdotally, I've seen people report this with triple glazing but not double, although I appreciate that's not very scientific.

On frosty mornings the outside of our windows (triple glazed) will be covered in frost/ice until the sun melts it

JimmyMW · 02-02-2021 5:41pm

Lumen wrote: »

You might get 77% with double and 70% with triple, so that's 10% less, but the other factor is frame-to-glazing ratio, which depends on design but generally wood > pvc > alu > steel (I think), and that also affects thermals.

So double glazed wood might let through less light than triple glazed alu, if the alu has a thinner frame profile.

The other consideration is that the eye has a non-linear response to light cos pupils and brains, so 10% less transmittance won't seem 10% darker.

This is all to do with the coating regardless of the frames, double or triple glazing, its the LT value (light transmittance) and the G value (Solar factor) that will give you heavier and lighter tints in the glass. this is all to do with the glass build-ups, coatings and laminates etc.

Triple glaze windows noisy neighbours

Comments