Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Living Under Regulation

Options
  • 13-11-2020 5:44pm
    #1
    greysides
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,971 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    This thread was part of a discussion on another thread where it was off-topic. Posts have been copied to here and the discussion can continue.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



«13

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Dickie10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,865 ✭✭✭Dickie10


    i find saturdays and sundays unbelievably grim the last 3 weeks, seems like your in a never ending cycle of work, between farm and work pressure its horrible , had bord bia audit last friday and pictures wouldnt all load into phone for the audit , they guy put it back til monday should be ok, but i was really in a tough place friday, your man on the phone putting pressure on that i should have had it done, was very very close to telling him to shove it up his arse, i think he could hear by voice being dry and kind of at breaking point and gave me a chance havent felt that way since i was at school and in trouble, horrible feeling really dontt want to feel that way again.


  • Options
    #3
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,133 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Best wishes Dickie, many of these guys and gals are more aware of the stress farmers are under. I am forever grateful to one Dept of Ag official who helped me greatly in bad times.
    Have no hesitation in letting the guy know that you're under stress, it will actually put him on the backfoot a bit, he won't quite know how to handle it. Better option than giving him a bollocking, though I know the urge.


  • Options
    #4
    Ard_MC
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭Ard_MC


    Dickie10 wrote: »
    i find saturdays and sundays unbelievably grim the last 3 weeks, seems like your in a never ending cycle of work, between farm and work pressure its horrible , had bord bia audit last friday and pictures wouldnt all load into phone for the audit , they guy put it back til monday should be ok, but i was really in a tough place friday, your man on the phone putting pressure on that i should have had it done, was very very close to telling him to shove it up his arse, i think he could hear by voice being dry and kind of at breaking point and gave me a chance havent felt that way since i was at school and in trouble, horrible feeling really dontt want to feel that way again.


    Firstly Dickie, dont forget bord bia is there by your invite only. Tell him politely to burger off until your ready. You have nothing to fear about them. 10 cent bonus isn't worth stress. If its stress to you now.

    And I am the same as you lately. Every day is the same. But then I go for a walk about with the dogs and think how lucky I am compared to being stuck in an apartment in Dublin or wherever like many others.

    Your not alone. Any time let rip here if need be.


  • Options
    #5
    whelan2
    Registered Users Posts: 29,105 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    The photos wouldn't upload for me either towards the end of uploading them. I left it for a while and then they did. I dont know if it was the crappy internet connection or what. The weather, dark evenings and covid isn't helping either


  • Options
    #6
    Timmaay
    Registered Users Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    Ask him if you can email or send as a photo text message to him either, and let him upload them directly himself.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    NcdJd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 994 ✭✭✭NcdJd


    Another trick on uploading photos is to take a screen shot of it on your phone rather than uploading the original. Go into your gallery and display the photo you want to upload, then tip your finger on it to display it as a full screen photo, then you should have a button combo that will screenshot it depending on your phone make. So a photo with a size of 4.78MBs becomes 780KBs.

    Upload speeds with the various broadband providers is a fraction of your download bandwidth speed. For instance if your getting 30 - 40 meg per second on your download speed, on your upload it is usually 1.5 - 2 megs per second.

    Anyway good to see that people are not afraid to let off some steam, we all need to do it every so often.. Fair play to you Dickie, hopefully 2021 will be a little better for youself and the rest of us.


  • Options
    #8
    ruwithme
    Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭ruwithme


    Your last paragraph there ncd re letting off steam is so true.

    We all need to better recognise when someone else is having a blow out &allow them to have it rather than always challenging someone on same.

    Often hear people on liveline &you may not agree with them,but all their doing is having a blow out. Let them at it joe.

    (I know liveline torture)


  • Options
    #9
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Have an inspection this week, it's sure not helping me look on the bright side of life. Mate of mine had a GLAS inspection during the week, in his own words "it's no feckin way to live". The faster I can get away from CAP the happier I'll be. Herself made the comment tonight she's never seen an industry with such mental health issues, mostly over fear of losing income.


  • Options
    #10
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,059 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Have an inspection this week, it's sure not helping me look on the bright side of life. Mate of mine had a GLAS inspection during the week, in his own words "it's no feckin way to live". The faster I can get away from CAP the happier I'll be. Herself made the comment tonight she's never seen an industry with such mental health issues, mostly over fear of losing income.

    I'm surprised at that, I thought you guys were really going to benefit from CAP 2013. We've experience d savage cuts to bring up the low subsidies
    Has your subsidies not improved a lot since 2013, wasn't everyone supposed to be up to 200/ha by now,


  • Options
    #11
    GNWoodd
    Registered Users Posts: 539 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    The sooner farmers get paid for what we produce and move away from subsidies the better .
    Get paid for what we produce today
    Nobody should have to comply with hundreds of pages of regulations and be at the mercy of any public servant
    The farm organisations and politicians have a lot to answer for when every decision eroded our independence.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,479 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    GNWoodd wrote: »
    Nobody should have to comply with hundreds of pages of regulations and be at the mercy of any public servant .

    Truth is this has only come late to farms.
    Show me one job that’s not dictated by pages of regulation??

    Food production is a highly regulated business for everyone involved.


  • Options
    #13
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,059 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    _Brian wrote: »
    Truth is this has only come late to farms.
    Show me one job that’s not dictated by pages of regulation??

    Food production is a highly regulated business for everyone involved.

    We'll always have to follow regulations, don't and the punishment will be fines not penalties, one thing worse than abiding by regulation to get subsidies is abiding with regulations without subsidies.
    The days of farmers pollution is over


  • Options
    #14
    GNWoodd
    Registered Users Posts: 539 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    There was more money made from farming and more viable farms in this country before any of the bullxxxx regulations .
    The countryside has been regulated into near extinction


  • Options
    #15
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,059 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    GNWoodd wrote: »
    There was more money made from farming and more viable farms in this country before any of the bullxxxx regulations .
    The countryside has been regulated into near extinction

    Different world now, everyone has has to work harder and cheaper now, feck we used have a few good car industries here and even a wool and flax...... can't go back


  • Options
    #16
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,479 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    GNWoodd wrote: »
    There was more money made from farming and more viable farms in this country before any of the bullxxxx regulations .
    The countryside has been regulated into near extinction

    Truth is it’s the drive down the high units low margin route that Irish ag is being driven that is hurting. There’s been little effort to create a unique brand from beef similar to how successful kerrygold butter has gained.

    Rather beef is a commodity business to supply cheap raw material to a cartel to become wealthy on.


  • Options
    #17
    Deeec
    Registered Users Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭Deeec


    There is huge pressure on farmers now that just wasnt there years ago. Farmers are now expected to do a huge amount of paperwork which they are possibly not trained to do. My own father was reared to be a farmer and left school at a young age. It falls on me to do all the paperwork because he is not able to do it. If I wasnt willing to help I dont know how he would manage.

    I feel so sorry for farmers on their own who have nobody to help out with all of this. I work as an accountant and see even young farmers struggle with paperwork, online applications, banking requirements, email etc - it is a huge problem. Farmers love farming but department requirements are making it a nightmare for many. Even the ag food website is a nightmare to navigate if you are unclear on what you are doing. I can see how depression can form as a result of this pressure.


  • Options
    #18
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,479 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Deeec wrote: »
    There is huge pressure on farmers now that just wasnt there years ago. Farmers are now expected to do a huge amount of paperwork which they are possibly not trained to do. My own father was reared to be a farmer and left school at a young age. It falls on me to do all the paperwork because he is not able to do it. If I wasnt willing to help I dont know how he would manage.

    I feel so sorry for farmers on their own who have nobody to help out with all of this. I work as an accountant and see even young farmers struggle with paperwork, online applications, banking requirements, email etc - it is a huge problem. Farmers love farming but department requirements are making it a nightmare for many. Even the ag food website is a nightmare to navigate if you are unclear on what you are doing. I can see how depression can form as a result of this pressure.

    The era of hyper traceability and accountability has caught up on these lads. You can’t be supplying into the food chain any more without being embroiled in paperwork and systems.
    You could get rid of cap but the traceability paperwork will still be needed. Stroke of a pen brings in something else. Didn’t I see recently where EPA licensing is being muted for Dairy farms now, doesn’t surprise me. Any other industry storing tens of thousands of gallons of pollutants and spreading them on the land along with other chemicals have to have EPA licensing applied.


  • Options
    #19
    Deeec
    Registered Users Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭Deeec


    _Brian wrote: »
    The era of hyper traceability and accountability has caught up on these lads. You can’t be supplying into the food chain any more without being embroiled in paperwork and systems.
    You could get rid of cap but the traceability paperwork will still be needed. Stroke of a pen brings in something else. Didn’t I see recently where EPA licensing is being muted for Dairy farms now, doesn’t surprise me. Any other industry storing tens of thousands of gallons of pollutants and spreading them on the land along with other chemicals have to have EPA licensing applied.

    I agree that the systems need to be in place. But I see even young lads unable to cope with the requirements. The reason they find it hard to cope is maybe poor education, lack of computer experience, nobody showed them what to do etc. Many young farmers dont realise that farming isnt just farming - it now has to be run as a business like any other business.


  • Options
    #20
    green daries
    Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭green daries


    _Brian wrote: »
    The era of hyper traceability and accountability has caught up on these lads. You can’t be supplying into the food chain any more without being embroiled in paperwork and systems.
    You could get rid of cap but the traceability paperwork will still be needed. Stroke of a pen brings in something else. Didn’t I see recently where EPA licensing is being muted for Dairy farms now, doesn’t surprise me. Any other industry storing tens of thousands of gallns of pollutants and spreading them on the land along with other chemicals have to have EPA licensing applied.

    I would have to take issue with your statement on pollutants as 95% of farmers in the country and especially heavily stocked and mostly highly competent well trained and educated farmers have a high regard for the valuable nutrients that are generated and recycled on farms every year

    Theres enough people who don't understand agriculture and the value of farmers being custodians of the countryside having a pop besides one of our own on here ðŸ™႒.
    .....just my opinion


  • Options
    #21
    green daries
    Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭green daries


    Deeec wrote: »
    I agree that the systems need to be in place. But I see even young lads unable to cope with the requirements. The reason they find it hard to cope is maybe poor education, lack of computer experience, nobody showed them what to do etc. Many young farmers dont realise that farming isnt just farming - it now has to be run as a business like any other business.

    Yes to the systems but its red tape and constant changes upon change and no simplification of the regulations that is causing the heartache with paperwork its jobs for the boys no matter what is said


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    blackbox
    Registered Users Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭blackbox


    green daries wrote: »
    Yes to the systems but its red tape and constant changes upon change and no simplification of the regulations that is causing the heartache with paperwork its jobs for the boys no matter what is said

    There is red tape and constant change in every industry, especially in food production.

    Unfortunately there are cowboys that bring down grief on everyone else, whether it is angel dust or horse meat or pollution.


  • Options
    #23
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,133 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    blackbox wrote: »
    There is red tape and constant change in every industry, especially in food production.

    Unfortunately there are cowboys that bring down grief on everyone else, whether it is angel dust or horse meat or pollution.

    Correct, but officials need to identify early and differentiate these cowboys from the general run of farmers doing their best but sometimes not getting it quite right.


  • Options
    #24
    whelan2
    Registered Users Posts: 29,105 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Dickie10 wrote: »
    i find saturdays and sundays unbelievably grim the last 3 weeks, seems like your in a never ending cycle of work, between farm and work pressure its horrible , had bord bia audit last friday and pictures wouldnt all load into phone for the audit , they guy put it back til monday should be ok, but i was really in a tough place friday, your man on the phone putting pressure on that i should have had it done, was very very close to telling him to shove it up his arse, i think he could hear by voice being dry and kind of at breaking point and gave me a chance havent felt that way since i was at school and in trouble, horrible feeling really dontt want to feel that way again.

    Was the inspection today? How did it go?


  • Options
    #25
    The Rabbi
    Registered Users Posts: 329 ✭✭The Rabbi


    blackbox wrote: »
    There is red tape and constant change in every industry, especially in food production.

    Unfortunately there are cowboys that bring down grief on everyone else, whether it is angel dust or horse meat or pollution.

    They wont say Boo to that cowboy.

    Two years and five days after a full cross compliance inspection the dept of aggravation are still sending requests for further information,some of which was sent 18 months ago.It must be sent to them within 10 days or all sorts of sanctions will rain down upon you.That sort of behavior is what psses people off and causes stress wondering when your next interaction with them will be.
    Those pictures for bord bia were a real headache,eventually WhatsApp the last few pics to milk advisor to close out.
    Anyhow thats how I feel at the moment.


  • Options
    #26
    greysides
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,971 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    This thread is a continuation of a discussion started in another thread, but off-topic.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Options
    #27
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    The Rabbi wrote: »


    They wont say Boo to that cowboy.

    Two years and five days after a full cross compliance inspection the dept of aggravation are still sending requests for further information,some of which was sent 18 months ago. It must be sent to them within 10 days or all sorts of sanctions will rain down upon you.That sort of behavior is what psses people off and causes stress wondering when your next interaction with them will be.
    Those pictures for bord bia were a real headache,eventually WhatsApp the last few pics to milk advisor to close out.
    Anyhow thats how I feel at the moment.

    Only cure for that- is hit them with a freedom information request - including a request for all submitted correspondence to-date. And get the email address of the person you're dealing with.

    I have to do that before - and lo and behold they found all the missing submitted documentation.

    They got a right royal bolloking when I found they had what they claimed to be missing.

    Take copies of everything and date them. Screenshots / registration of any post. It seems civil servants aren't paid for being proactive...


  • Options
    #28
    K.G.
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    The Rabbi wrote: »


    They wont say Boo to that cowboy.

    Two years and five days after a full cross compliance inspection the dept of aggravation are still sending requests for further information,some of which was sent 18 months ago.It must be sent to them within 10 days or all sorts of sanctions will rain down upon you.That sort of behavior is what psses people off and causes stress wondering when your next interaction with them will be.
    Those pictures for bord bia were a real headache,eventually WhatsApp the last few pics to milk advisor to close out.
    Anyhow thats how I feel at the moment.

    Had an inspection in july 2018 just at the end of a horrendous 6 months.that day nearly finished me but in fairness i found the inspector fine,not that everything was perfect but we muddled through.its still live and only recently had to sit down with teagasc advisor to go through fertiliser and storage for that year but it seems ok.dont get too caught in it,every walk of life has paperwork and stuff


  • Options
    #29
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,636 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    green daries wrote: »
    I would have to take issue with your statement on pollutants as 95% of farmers in the country and especially heavily stocked and mostly highly competent well trained and educated farmers have a high regard for the valuable nutrients that are generated and recycled on farms every year

    Theres enough people who don't understand agriculture and the value of farmers being custodians of the countryside having a pop besides one of our own on here ðŸ™႒.
    .....just my opinion

    I would say thats rather a mixed picture in reality - there are still alot of issues out there in terms of adequate slurry storage, spreading it outside the growing season, etc.


  • Options
    #30
    893bet
    Registered Users Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭893bet


    The Rabbi wrote: »


    They wont say Boo to that cowboy.

    Two years and five days after a full cross compliance inspection the dept of aggravation are still sending requests for further information,some of which was sent 18 months ago.It must be sent to them within 10 days or all sorts of sanctions will rain down upon you.That sort of behavior is what psses people off and causes stress wondering when your next interaction with them will be.
    Those pictures for bord bia were a real headache,eventually WhatsApp the last few pics to milk advisor to close out.
    Anyhow thats how I feel at the moment.

    What type of info are they still asking for?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,059 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    gozunda wrote: »
    Only cure for that- is hit them with a freedom information request - including a request for all submitted correspondence to-date. And get the email address of the person you're dealing with.

    I have to do that before - and lo and behold they found all the missing submitted documentation.

    They got a right royal bolloking when I found they had what they claimed to be missing.

    Take copies of everything and date them. Screenshots / registration of any post. It seems civil servants aren't paid for being proactive...

    I've been involved in plenty of cases for farmers and if the farmers learnt what you've said here it'd be a big help. copy copy copy.
    Like you say here it's a huge help to get the department found out to have made a mess


Advertisement