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New Reillo G5X stops burning with cover on

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  • 10-09-2020 8:24pm
    #1
    RocoH
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭


    hi there,
    I installed a new Reillo G5X oil burner today and it runs & burns until I place the steel box cover on.
    Taking it off it burns fine, as soon as I close the cover on, or even half on, the burn stops.

    I have opened the air damper to various levels, mid to fully open and it consistently stops burning when cover is on.

    My guess is it is not getting the right air mix when sealed up with cover (or even half sealed) but I thought opening the damper up would compensate for the cover going on and it would burn away fine.

    Any ideas please ðŸ™


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    #2
    John.G
    Registered Users Posts: 3,476 ✭✭✭John.G


    Not sure which cover you are talking about, some have a hydraulic ram which opens when the boiler starts up and closes when the boiler shuts down but has nothing to do with the air damper setting, it stops cold air flow through the burner/boiler while shut down.
    Mine doesn't have this damper but the control damper is set at 2.2 to give the proper FGA reading.


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    #3
    RocoH
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭RocoH


    thank John ....
    So the pic you attach is what I mean when I say I opened it up from default 1 setting all the way to say 10 on the dial to allow more air in (I thought).
    This model does not have ram, but I know the old g3 does (since I had been messing with different parts to get one to work) in the end I bought a new one.

    The cover I am talking about is the actual steel cover that closes up the unit. Attach are pics, one with the cover off (burns fine), other pic with the cover on (or even half on) stops burning.


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    #4
    John.G
    Registered Users Posts: 3,476 ✭✭✭John.G


    Presume you have a outside Heatpac unit like mine, if so, the access door will (should) have louvered slots on the front to allow air into the burner unit like in the (bad) photo, below.


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    #5
    RocoH
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭RocoH


    No John, my burner is inside, with vent out at top of burner box through wall to outside (attached)
    Ta.


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    #6
    RocoH
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭RocoH


    Attached from manual...


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    #7
    John.G
    Registered Users Posts: 3,476 ✭✭✭John.G


    That,s correct but as you have a indoor unit it may and probably is a requirement to have outside air supplied via a trunking to the boiler enclosure, the vent you are referring to expels the exhaust gases.


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    #8
    RocoH
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭RocoH


    it has been running for 10yrs up to this where the fan stopped running due to faulty motor. Why would this now be an issue?


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    #9
    RocoH
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭RocoH


    Trunking into boiler?


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    #10
    John.G
    Registered Users Posts: 3,476 ✭✭✭John.G


    It could be a form of balanced flue with the exhaust going out the centre and the air flowing in on the outside but I am not familiar with the indoor units, if it is a balanced flue then where is the air entering the enclosure I wonder, someone reading this may be familiar, I presume the new burner has exactly the same air damper arrangement as the old as one would think that the air (if outside supplied) would be carried in via a flexible pipe at the burner.


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    #11
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    RocoH wrote: »
    hi there,
    I installed a new Reillo G5X oil burner today and it runs & burns until I place the steel box cover on.
    Taking it off it burns fine, as soon as I close the cover on, or even half on, the burn stops.

    I have opened the air damper to various levels, mid to fully open and it consistently stops burning when cover is on.

    My guess is it is not getting the right air mix when sealed up with cover (or even half sealed) but I thought opening the damper up would compensate for the cover going on and it would burn away fine.

    Any ideas please ðŸ™

    Do you know and have you checked that the fuel pump has been set to the correct pressure as set out by the manufacturer's instructions?
    Do you have a flue gas analyser to correctly adjust and set the air settings on the burner?
    Do you know if the appliance has a permanent air supply?
    Have the baffle plates been checked for good condition, clean and installed correctly?
    There are more questions that could be asked, but unless you can answer Yes to the first two questions above then you need to stop what you are doing and get a qualified oil fired heating technician in to sort it out.
    Playing with air settings without the correct knowledge and equipment can unwittingly create huge volumes of Carbon Monoxide!


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    #12
    RocoH
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭RocoH


    Hi K.Flyer, I do not have these tools. I took it that while it may not be the most efficient set up without such measurements/readings & adjustments the new burner can work out of the box.
    And if it isn't getting the right amount of air when sealed up that adjusting the air damper to allow more air in would be a natural step to remedy.
    What do you think is the cause for the burner to burn fine when the steel housing is off and turn off immeadiatly each time I sit the cover/housing on. It stops burning as instant as if I flicked an off switch!
    Thanks


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    #13
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    RocoH wrote: »
    Hi K.Flyer, I do not have these tools. I took it that while it may not be the most efficient set up without such measurements/readings & adjustments the new burner can work out of the box.
    And if it isn't getting the right amount of air when sealed up that adjusting the air damper to allow more air in would be a natural step to remedy.
    What do you think is the cause for the burner to burn fine when the steel housing is off and turn off immeadiatly each time I sit the cover/housing on. It stops burning as instant as if I flicked an off switch!
    Thanks

    To be honest it could be anything, but it may be as simple as a loose wire being disturbed as the casing is being fitted.
    I never trust any burner out of the box, I always check for the correct nozzle (if pre-fitted), pump pressure and air settings.
    Looking at your pictures I would think that the boiler is not getting enough or Any air and opening the air damper is not the answer. Because it worked before, doesn't mean it was running right.
    If that small hole in the wall is the air supply then there is plenty wrong, looking at that picture, it is way too small.
    It really all needs to be correctly assessed and now that you have altered the air settings you will only be sure it's right with a gas analyser after air supply / flue remedial work has been carried out.


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    #14
    John.G
    Registered Users Posts: 3,476 ✭✭✭John.G


    Is that "steel box cover" open at the right hand side to allow air into the damper opening? see red line. (Enlarge the photo)

    There is no actual "enclosure door" so the whole front of the boiler/burner is open to the atmosphere or what?

    Also are you getting flame failure when you replace the box, if not then as stated in post# 13 could be a loose wire and has nothing to do with the air supply.


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    #15
    jimf
    Registered Users Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭jimf


    when you put the cover back on the burner is getting a contaminated air supply

    as in it is sucking in its own flu gasses


    this means you have a leak somewhere and would be best advised to get somebody to do the job for you that has the test equipment

    the most likely place for this leak in these boilers is around the flange where the burner is mounted


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    #16
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,233 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    jimf wrote: »
    when you put the cover back on the burner is getting a contaminated air supply

    as in it is sucking in its own flu gasses


    this means you have a leak somewhere and would be best advised to get somebody to do the job for you that has the test equipment

    the most likely place for this leak in these boilers is around the flange where the burner is mounted

    Indoor boiler.I am always extra careful with them. Nothing for the diy'r to be going at imho.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



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    #17
    RocoH
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭RocoH


    Thanks all for your help.
    Last night I remembered the back wall was re-plastered since last used & that the air supply was smaller due to some plaster covering it the end. I removed the plaster here & vaccummed & the pipe is back to the full diameter. (Attached pics). Same issue as soon as cover goes on.
    Last pic is closup of inlet pipe now.

    Wiring looks fine and not touching it with cover.
    Jim, thanks for this. Thanks KFlyer & John
    I will get in the professionals.


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    #18
    John.G
    Registered Users Posts: 3,476 ✭✭✭John.G


    Must be a bit thick but don't understand why there is any hole in the wall except that the box is sealed and there is a trunking connected directly into it otherwise the air can be taken from the air surrounding the outside of the box. I understand the why the air can become contaminated.


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    #19
    RocoH
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭RocoH


    thanks Jim, i think you are right because I do see scorch marks around the top flange screws & hot air is definitely escaping when i place my fingers near there.

    Will get it corrected & tested by a professional.

    Appreciate all the help.


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    #20
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,233 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    John.G wrote: »
    Is that "steel box cover" open at the right hand side to allow air into the damper opening? see red line. (Enlarge the photo)

    There is no actual "enclosure door" so the whole front of the boiler/burner is open to the atmosphere or what?

    Also are you getting flame failure when you replace the box, if not then as stated in post# 13 could be a loose wire and has nothing to do with the air supply.
    These are room sealed boilers John



    526003.jpg

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



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    #21
    RocoH
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭RocoH


    Hi, just to close this out, had a visit from professional who sealed around the burner flange and it is running fine now when closed over with metal housing so thanks Jim you were correct in your diagnosis.
    No test done, couldn't get into baffles to clean or test since the unit is welded shut with silicone from previous time 😥
    Said he would do it again in the future since the gasket will need replacing when unit is opened & he didnt have gasket with him.
    Thanks all.


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    #22
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,233 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    RocoH wrote: »
    Hi, just to close this out, had a visit from professional who sealed around the burner flange and it is running fine now when closed over with metal housing so thanks Jim you were correct in your diagnosis.
    No test done, couldn't get into baffles to clean or test since the unit is welded shut with silicone from previous time ��
    Said he would do it again in the future since the gasket will need replacing when unit is opened & he didnt have gasket with him.
    Thanks all.
    I don't mean to be hard on you, but no professional would have walked away from an indoor boiler without doing a test (and more).



    However, thanks for reporting.

    Keep a working CO alarm nearby.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



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    #23
    John.G
    Registered Users Posts: 3,476 ✭✭✭John.G


    Wonder what the damper setting is now.


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    #24
    RocoH
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭RocoH


    He mentioned he bent his bar trying to open it, didn't have a gasket to hand and said its a job for next summer.....nice man though!
    I'm not sure why I let him away so easy, especially since he didn't ask when it was last serviced ....i told him it was at least two yrs ago.
    Co2 Alarm just tested and working.

    Damper setting is at 2.5 he said, I asked him.


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    #25
    jimf
    Registered Users Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭jimf


    bit unusual in one way but I can see his point in another

    some of these hideaways can be a pure barsteward to seal even with new gasket

    i have on more than one occasion walked away from a boiler that i see plastered with silicone


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    #26
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,233 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    jimf wrote: »
    bit unusual in one way but I can see his point in another

    some of these hideaways can be a pure barsteward to seal even with new gasket

    i have on more than one occasion walked away from a boiler that i see plastered with silicone

    I have a few on my books Jim and haven't had that extreme trouble. (Maybe just lucky) Worse case, tighten up nuts, few taps of a hammer and retighten.
    Do some of them warp?

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



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    #27
    jimf
    Registered Users Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭jimf


    not sure wearb maybe im just that bit extra super careful with indoor boilers


    some ive sealed with your tap of the hammer method some refuse to

    if they are total pigs i usually tighten as much as possible so that a mark is visible on the gasket

    then remove the door again and slightly score the outline of the mark with a screwdriver to about 5mm depth that usually does the trick very time consuming but you walk away happy that boiler is safe


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    #28
    jimf
    Registered Users Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭jimf


    just thinking we better stop giving away our little secrets or that tom44 the taxi driver will go fulltime at the boilers


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    #29
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,233 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    jimf wrote: »
    just thinking we better stop giving away our little secrets or that tom44 the taxi driver will go fulltime at the boilers

    There'll be no stopping him now.

    I admire your determination with that board. I'm glad I haven't had to do that...yet. I don't have a lot of them, as I don't court indoor work.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



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    #30
    jimf
    Registered Users Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭jimf


    Wearb wrote: »
    There'll be no stopping him now.

    I admire your determination with that board. I'm glad I haven't had to do that...yet. I don't have a lot of them, as I don't court indoor work.


    to be honest if i never saw an indoor boiler id be a happy man

    id say at a guess i have about 50 but we cant pick and choose


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    #31
    RocoH
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭RocoH


    From a user point of view I dont want them indoor either ....being able to hear the burn coming on every couple of minutes just remindes me of my kerosene getting lower and another fill & bill getting closer!
    Out of sight out of mind is best!


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