Why wouldn't you buy an Alfa Romeo? (keep it civilized)

H3llR4iser · 29-01-2019 2:00pm #1

So, a few days ago I was chatting to a friend and fellow Alfista; the shockingly poor sales of the Giulia and Stelvio in Ireland became part of the conversation.

The cars are direct competitors to the 3-Series, A4, X3 and Q5 - which seem to be selling like hotcakes (at least in Dublin), yet there have only been a handful of Giulia and Stelvio sold in the 2 years they've been on the market.

Both received generally glowing reviews in the motoring press, the prices are aligned with the competition and represent something a bit more individual than the "usual suspects".

So...why would YOU not buy one and end up with a BMW/Audi instead? Is it the brand image? The pub talk about reliability? If you bought a 3-Series or an A4 in the last couple of years, did you even consider a Giulia in the lead up to the final decision?

Genuine question folks - please keep silly brand bashing (regardless of brand...) out of this thread.

MODs- didn't post this in the "buying and selling" as it seems to be it's more a question about a car mode/brand's perception, than buying advice.

troyzer · 29-01-2019 2:01pm

H3llR4iser wrote: »

So, a few days ago I was chatting to a friend and fellow Alfista; the shockingly poor sales of the Giulia and Stelvio in Ireland became part of the conversation.

The cars are direct competitors to the 3-Series, A4, X3 and Q5 - which seem to be selling like hotcakes (at least in Dublin), yet there have only been a handful of Giulia and Stelvio sold in the 2 years they've been on the market.

Both received generally glowing reviews in the motoring press, the prices are aligned with the competition and represent something a bit more individual than the "usual suspects".

So...why would YOU not buy one and end up with a BMW/Audi instead? Is it the brand image? The pub talk about reliability? If you bought a 3-Series or an A4 in the last couple of years, did you even consider a Giulia in the lead up to the final decision?

Genuine question folks - please keep silly brand bashing (regardless of brand...) out of this thread.

MODs- didn't post this in the "buying and selling" as it seems to be it's more a question about a car mode/brand's perception, than buying advice.

They're very expensive and unreliable.

Comhrá · 29-01-2019 2:07pm

Huge depreciation relative to other marques.

Quality of interior.

Fit and finish not quite as good as the main rivals.

29-01-2019 2:09pm

'cos spending more time talking to your mechanic than your wife is weird.

viperirl · 29-01-2019 2:24pm

I'm actually in the process of changing my car and the Alfa Giulia is probably top of my list. I've taken a few test drives in recent weeks and very impressed the way it feels and handles. Very direct steering. It felt special and even though the test drives were short I definitely noticed a few admiring glances at the car.

So why would I not buy one:
1. Reliability record of Alfa in general doesn't seem to be great. That said, the What Car 2018 Reliability Survey had favorable comments on the Giulia's reliability.
2. Due to the very poor sales, I'd be concerned that the dealers wouldn't know the car that well in order to be able to fix a problem if it did occur.
3. New Petrol models are very scarce (apart from the Veloce and Quadrof), only one new Petrol in ROI when I checked last week, I checked with the dealers. Up North there are a few more but not sure if warranty would transfer down here. So difficult to get one in the colour and spec I want.
4. I love the interior design but the quality of the fittings inside are not as good as BMW/Merc/Audi/Lexus.

I'm still mulling it over....

kooga · 29-01-2019 2:27pm

between 2001 and 2005 I had two 147's a 1.6 and a 2.0 petrol

never had an issue with them and tbh the 2.0 is still one of my favourites cars

what put me off them was an importer who didn't care along with the dealership experience

SBPhoto · 29-01-2019 2:31pm

I wouldn't buy due to poor Reliability, not great interior and when you go to trade it in no dealer want's to deal with you.

Alanstrainor · 29-01-2019 2:38pm

Resale value would be my main concern. I'd be one of those waiting to buy them cheap secondhand though!

Arthur Daley · 29-01-2019 2:41pm

I'd say if you bought the Alfa you really like and run it for it's useful life of at least 12-15 years, service it on the button, you could have a very happy driving experience. But most Irish buyers will just not want to think like this.

JoeA3 · 29-01-2019 2:47pm

I think I'd be terrified of the unknown with it.

I think I could put up with some (minor) reliability quirks, particularly when it's in warranty, but where do you bring it if there's a problem? The dealer network is completely hopeless by all accounts. I'd say there isn't an Alfa dealer within 100 miles of me. Frequent long round trips to a dealer who's struggling with gremlins in a new car is a nightmare no one wants.

Then when you do eventually go to trade it in, you'll be in real bother. No dealer will want it.

That's the perception and it's very hard to shift it, no matter how good the latest models may be.

R.O.R · 29-01-2019 3:05pm

Haven't sat in any either of these new models, but previous Alfa's (146/156/159/Giulietta) all had seat bases that were just that bit too long for me to be able to get a really comfortable seating position.

Also - forecasted resale values are very poor in comparison to the BMW/Audi equivalents.

ELM327 · 29-01-2019 3:07pm

Have bought many alfas in my time.
All second hand.

mickdw · 29-01-2019 3:26pm

Ya very expensive ownership from new to 3 years due to resale value.
I b oiught an alfa once at 3 years old with small miles.
It never stopped on the road or failed to start however I was on first name terms with the parts guy at alfa.

ianobrien · 29-01-2019 4:42pm

My main problem would be the shocking lack of ability in the local FCA dealer. I know of somebody who went to the dealer with a Fiat. First they said it didn't exist on the Global Fiat system, then it wasn't registered and third charged for a diagnostic that they couldn't understand.

A phone call to Fiat Europe (while in their waiting room) resulted in their lack of ability and lies being exposed (Fiat were able to give all the details of the vehicle, including the recent scan and what the problems were).

TL/DR - Local FCA dealer left a bad taste. Slow to buy an FCA as a result

StereoSound · 29-01-2019 4:46pm

Resale value for me is important, so I wouldn't buy a new Alfa. I'd buy a used 3 or 4 years old one though with a proper warranty for a main dealer, maybe.

NoBread · 29-01-2019 5:56pm

Resale is difficult, dealer network is poor and the dealers aren't great.
Aside from that though, the reliability isn't terrible. Renault would be worse, and BMW is a long, long way from reliable. Apart from the diesel swirl-flap/timing chain issue, the petrols with their coil packs, injectors, HPFP issues, cooling issues sprinkled throughout the past 30 years, and stupidly expensive parts - none of that seems to deter people from that brand.
Mercedes from 1995 - 2007 were utter shít, but while they did suffer a slow in sales, no one put them at Alfa levels, even though a C-class at the time was far more likely to break and cost you a lot more than a 156 or 159.
Audi are a long way off the top too, although more recently are better. People love to use reliability as an excuse, but if that was really the issue then no one would drive anything other than a Lexus.
VW had some dirt petrol engines for many years, and folk couldn't buy them quick enough.

The Satanist · 29-01-2019 6:11pm

1. Reliability
2. Depreciation
3. V6 petrol engines are taxed to death

Mad_maxx · 29-01-2019 6:17pm

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Resale value would be my main concern. I'd be one of those waiting to buy them cheap secondhand though!

Enjoy the trip to England so as there won't be any stelvios here second hand

Mad_maxx · 29-01-2019 6:18pm

Arthur Daley wrote: »

I'd say if you bought the Alfa you really like and run it for it's useful life of at least 12-15 years, service it on the button, you could have a very happy driving experience. But most Irish buyers will just not want to think like this.

We are a fiercely Conservative nation when it comes to buying cars, even buying an automatic is viewed as slightly radical

The Rape of Lucretia · 29-01-2019 7:19pm

Because the average Irish car buyer is more concerned with brand and size snobbery than most other countries.

So while you say those Alfas compete against the BMWs, in Ireland that just isnt true. While the inherent merits of both can be argued, it isnt really a discussion relevant to the Irish buyer. Its a non contest. He buys the BMW. Because of an unhealthy keeping-up-with-the-Murphys, and ego culture where people link the status and success of a person to a greater degree than most on the car they drive.

And BMW has acquired the status over the years of the gold standard for arrivistes. It doesnt matter whether it deserves it or not. Having gained that status means that it simply is.

The only other attribute that matters, is size. He likes his longer bigger wider car, because bigger conveys to similarly simple minded people as the driver, that he is a big person. SUV preferable. Big saloon otherwise. Much of the rest of the world (equivalent economically to Ireland), happily buys smaller or lesser regarded marques, because it is chosen on the merits of their need in a car. Not to boost their ego and perception of themselves in the social pecking order. The Irish motorist is simply less sophisticated than most.

maddness · 29-01-2019 7:23pm

A big issue in Ireland is that it seems that Alfa Romeo Ireland has no marketing whatsoever and the dealer network is pathetic.
I’m considering one as a next company car and the dealer experience is really poor. Lack of available models to see and drive and shabby dealer premises is why a lot will end up in BMW, Audi and Mercs.

Mad_maxx · 29-01-2019 8:03pm

maddness wrote: »

A big issue in Ireland is that it seems that Alfa Romeo Ireland has no marketing whatsoever and the dealer network is pathetic.
I’m considering one as a next company car and the dealer experience is really poor. Lack of available models to see and drive and shabby dealer premises is why a lot will end up in BMW, Audi and Mercs.

Two of my sisters drive fiat 500,s and deal with tractamotors blanchardstown and they find them fine, don't they do alfa as well?

colm_mcm · 29-01-2019 8:27pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Because the average Irish car buyer is more concerned with brand and size snobbery than most other countries.

So while you say those Alfas compete against the BMWs, in Ireland that just isnt true. While the inherent merits of both can be argued, it isnt really a discussion relevant to the Irish buyer. Its a non contest. He buys the BMW. Because of an unhealthy keeping-up-with-the-Murphys, and ego culture where people link the status and success of a person to a greater degree than most on the car they drive.

And BMW has acquired the status over the years of the gold standard for arrivistes. It doesnt matter whether it deserves it or not. Having gained that status means that it simply is.

The only other attribute that matters, is size. He likes his longer bigger wider car, because bigger conveys to similarly simple minded people as the driver, that he is a big person. SUV preferable. Big saloon otherwise. Much of the rest of the world (equivalent economically to Ireland), happily buys smaller or lesser regarded marques, because it is chosen on the merits of their need in a car. Not to boost their ego and perception of themselves in the social pecking order. The Irish motorist is simply less sophisticated than most.

Any idea why 50% of Alfa sales in recent years were in Italy, and 80% of the remainder inside Europe? Maybe the reason the Irish don’t buy them is the same reason everybody else doesn’t.

For Forks Sake · 29-01-2019 8:43pm

Horrendous depreciation and lack complete absence of dealer network

ShadowHearth · 29-01-2019 9:15pm

Why wouldn't I buy one? Well, because I can't afford one!

Seriously, Alfa Guilia is just fantastic looking machine, rwd, petrol turbo with 4 doors. It's Alfa too.
Would love 280hp one, but even 200hp would do me. Thing is, they are way out of my budget and almost no second hand ones.
If UK car import still a thing in 2020, then it is definitely going on the list of my next car. 2 year old one will do fine for me.

GustavoFring · 29-01-2019 9:20pm

I know the dealer network is pants but I'm genuinely surprised the Guilia isn't selling in larger numbers here.

bazz26 · 29-01-2019 9:27pm

I'd say two main reasons:

1. Very few private buyers willing to sink their own money in one new. Yes you will get the odd enthusiast who will do it but they are few and far between. Majority of enthusiasts will probably wait until they are a few years old and buy them for a fraction of their new price.
2. Fleet managers for the most part won't touch them because when you factor in depreciation/resale values into the leasing equation the monthly costs are just too high to be competitive against the more established competition.

V8 Interceptor · 29-01-2019 9:42pm

viperirl wrote: »

I've taken a few test drives in recent weeks.

Do dealers allow fellas to come down and take cars out for a spin multiple times?

(Genuine question)

CalamariFritti · 29-01-2019 9:59pm

I would consider and have considered an Alfa. A few years back I badly wanted an 159 Sortswagon Lusso Auto. I really wanted/want an estate and I love my auto box but auto wasnt essential. Loved the 159, was/is some car. Cracking design, stunning interior, something that not everybody has, was absolutely hellbent on it. Still think it's a lovely car.

What put me off was the following. I had to look at second hand since I just couldn't wouldn't afford a new one. But there were very few available, even in the UK. And what was there had a poor choice of engines. The petrols were virtually impossible to get and absolute emission pigs, and the too diesels were very poor in terms of emissions and therefore VRT and motor tax. The 1.9 jtdm was weakish for a relatively high emission car and again the 2.4 was an absolute pig. I would have been nearly in the same disastrous bracket as my old pre 2008 Beemer. In the end I bought a 3 series estate which I'm very happy with.

Giulia is a lovely car, too, but I gonna drive my 3 series for a few more years at least, possible quite a few, I don't change often.

viperirl · 29-01-2019 10:08pm

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

Do dealers allow fellas to come down and take cars out for a spin multiple times?

(Genuine question)

In my case I was at the Alfa Test Drive Event in Killashee House in Naas last December where I got to drive the diesel and the Veloce, you had to sign up beforehand. Since then I've managed 2 test drives in a petrol in each of the Dublin dealers.

I absolutely adore the cars but the major sticking point for me is the dealer network or lack thereof.

Think I'll wait for the new 3 series in March but will most likely wait for a demo model of a 330i towards the end of the year.

Dakotabigone · 29-01-2019 11:19pm

Know a lad that has one and he constantly bangs on about the emotional attachment he has with Alfa’s. Claiming you can’t be a true Alfista unless you’re emotionally attached to it.

29-01-2019 11:23pm

A lot of people simple don't like the styling either

The Satanist · 30-01-2019 12:29am

Dakotabigone wrote: »

Know a lad that has one and he constantly bangs on about the emotional attachment he has with Alfa’s. Claiming you can’t be a true Alfista unless you’re emotionally attached to it.

I think that would put me off owning one too, what a weirdo

galwaytt · 30-01-2019 12:31am

Deleted User wrote: »

A lot of people simple don't like the styling either

I think the opposite : it's mini-me Ghibli look is great.

And I'm still boggled that people quote reliability as a factor and mentioning French cars in the same breadth.

We have two German "premium" cars and two Renault's in this house. Without doubt the German cars win, hands down. For repair bills.

The Audi wins on interiors, against everyone - and have done for 20 years.

But the Renault trundles on: one petrol, one diesel. So popular is that Renault 1.5Dci engine that the vast majority of that well-known brand with the 3-pointed star at the front.......is fitted with them. So thus French car = bad, German car = good is complete nonsense. Both my local Indys freely admit "that without German cars they'd have no work". Take from that what you will.

And the Alfa is another victim of this "fake news" on reputation.

I've a friend of mine only recently retired his 02 146.......not fir any other reason than .....he got an 07 one for a half-a- peanut.

The issue here and the UK is the dealers lack of interest. As soon as they they whiff of another brand available, they drop it and change the signage......and it's been like that here since the '80s.

The depreciation is the nett result. Used, they're great. New I'd love one, but the knock you'd take is very hard to swallow.

LillySV · 30-01-2019 12:47am

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Because the average Irish car buyer is more concerned with brand and size snobbery than most other countries.

So while you say those Alfas compete against the BMWs, in Ireland that just isnt true. While the inherent merits of both can be argued, it isnt really a discussion relevant to the Irish buyer. Its a non contest. He buys the BMW. Because of an unhealthy keeping-up-with-the-Murphys, and ego culture where people link the status and success of a person to a greater degree than most on the car they drive.

And BMW has acquired the status over the years of the gold standard for arrivistes. It doesnt matter whether it deserves it or not. Having gained that status means that it simply is.

The only other attribute that matters, is size. He likes his longer bigger wider car, because bigger conveys to similarly simple minded people as the driver, that he is a big person. SUV preferable. Big saloon otherwise. Much of the rest of the world (equivalent economically to Ireland), happily buys smaller or lesser regarded marques, because it is chosen on the merits of their need in a car. Not to boost their ego and perception of themselves in the social pecking order. The Irish motorist is simply less sophisticated than most.

No it’s quite simple, Alfa Romeo are cheaply made basic troublesome cars ...bmws/Mercs are well made solid comfortable fast great handling cars... that’s why people want them more...

MTBD · 30-01-2019 12:56am

LillySV wrote: »

No it’s quite simple, Alfa Romeo are cheaply made basic troublesome cars ...bmws/Mercs are well made solid comfortable fast great handling cars... that’s why people want them more...

Genuine question. What are you basing that on? BMW regularly come at the VERY bottom of reliability surveys. Mercedes are somewhat better but they are no Lexus. Sit in a 166 and tell me that was a cheaply made car. They are 20 years old now and still look and feel great.

The Giulia with the Lusso pack and walnut inserts is the best looking interior in it's class. Materials feel great. Have you been in one?

As for handling...the Giulia has won every group test that it has been in regarding handling and ride comfort. I'm just trying to get a gauge on how people get this stuff into their heads.

LillySV · 30-01-2019 1:05am

MTBD wrote: »

Genuine question. What are you basing that on? BMW regularly come at the VERY bottom of reliability surveys. Mercedes are somewhat better but they are no Lexus. Sit in a 166 and tell me that was a cheaply made car. They are 20 years old now and still look and feel great.

The Giulia with the Lusso pack and walnut inserts is the best looking interior in it's class. Materials feel great. Have you been in one?

As for handling...the Giulia has won every group test that it has been in regarding handling and ride comfort. I'm just trying to get a gauge on how people get this stuff into their heads.

Do ya own afew or do ya sell them? What reliability surveys are the bmws at the bottom? I have a bmw and haven’t spent a single penny on it in over 3 years ownership! Our second car is a corolla and it has
Cost me afew hundred in the same time period! Dont get me wrong , I’d love to buy some Alfa’s as pretty but they do have really bad reliability reports... and depreciation vs cost makes them a bad buy.

MTBD · 30-01-2019 1:18am

LillySV wrote: »

Do ya own afew or do ya sell them? What reliability surveys are the bmws at the bottom? I have a bmw and haven’t spent a single penny on it in over 3 years ownership! Our second car is a corolla and it has
Cost me afew hundred in the same time period! Dont get me wrong , I’d love to buy some Alfa’s as pretty but they do have really bad reliability reports... and depreciation vs cost makes them a bad buy.

I've owned 5 of them. I've never had a major mechanical issue with them. Piston rings went on a 200k mile 166 so that got the scrapper but everything else was perfect on it.

What I find about Alfas is that they always have reliable engines and gearboxes. But the most common engines were the twin Sparks and they liked oil and cambelt changes. And people who don't like doing maintenance are going to wreck them. And they did and then blamed the manufacturer. But the modern Alfas have normal timing belt and oil intervals. The only troublesome Alfa engines or gearboxes that have come out in the last 30 years were entirely GM units that came from Vectras.

I don't want to get into BMW slating as it's requested in the OP but if you Google "BMW least reliable" you will find the results of last year's JD Power. I've seen them languishing in numerous other surveys too. Audi are usually right there with them. Taking into account the known issues with the BMW diesel engines over the last 10 years I think that is entirely believable. BMW have made some shocking engines over the last 20 years. Jalopnik have a great article about it that details all of the problems with their most common engines.

When I think of reliability the main thing I am concerned with is engine and gearbox. Everything else is secondary and Alfa are good in both of those areas.

mickdw · 30-01-2019 1:19am

MTBD wrote: »

LillySV wrote: »

No it’s quite simple, Alfa Romeo are cheaply made basic troublesome cars ...bmws/Mercs are well made solid comfortable fast great handling cars... that’s why people want them more...

Genuine question. What are you basing that on? BMW regularly come at the VERY bottom of reliability surveys. Mercedes are somewhat better but they are no Lexus. Sit in a 166 and tell me that was a cheaply made car. They are 20 years old now and still look and feel great.

The Giulia with the Lusso pack and walnut inserts is the best looking interior in it's class. Materials feel great. Have you been in one?

As for handling...the Giulia has won every group test that it has been in regarding handling and ride comfort. I'm just trying to get a gauge on how people get this stuff into their heads.

I owned a 166 at circa 3 years old. Overall it had its faults but was pretty well finished and handled great for such a comfortable big car.
Silly things let it down though and kinda ruined the experience.
They are rare now. Most have rusted away or were scrapped.

JoeA3 · 30-01-2019 1:23am

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Because the average Irish car buyer is more concerned with brand and size snobbery than most other countries.

So while you say those Alfas compete against the BMWs, in Ireland that just isnt true. While the inherent merits of both can be argued, it isnt really a discussion relevant to the Irish buyer. Its a non contest. He buys the BMW. Because of an unhealthy keeping-up-with-the-Murphys, and ego culture where people link the status and success of a person to a greater degree than most on the car they drive.

And BMW has acquired the status over the years of the gold standard for arrivistes. It doesnt matter whether it deserves it or not. Having gained that status means that it simply is.

The only other attribute that matters, is size. He likes his longer bigger wider car, because bigger conveys to similarly simple minded people as the driver, that he is a big person. SUV preferable. Big saloon otherwise. Much of the rest of the world (equivalent economically to Ireland), happily buys smaller or lesser regarded marques, because it is chosen on the merits of their need in a car. Not to boost their ego and perception of themselves in the social pecking order. The Irish motorist is simply less sophisticated than most.

Utter nonsense.

LillySV · 30-01-2019 1:32am

MTBD wrote: »

I've owned 5 of them. I've never had a major mechanical issue with them. Piston rings went on a 200k mile 166 so that got the scrapper but everything else was perfect on it.

What I find about Alfas is that they always have reliable engines and gearboxes. But the most common engines were the twin Sparks and they liked oil and cambelt changes. And people who don't like doing maintenance are going to wreck them. And they did and then blamed the manufacturer. But the modern Alfas have normal timing belt and oil intervals. The only troublesome Alfa engines or gearboxes that have come out in the last 30 years were entirely GM units that came from Vectras.

I don't want to get into BMW slating as it's requested in the OP but if you Google "BMW least reliable" you will find the results of last year's JD Power. I've seen them languishing in numerous other surveys too. Audi are usually right there with them. Taking into account the known issues with the BMW diesel engines over the last 10 years I think that is entirely believable. BMW have made some shocking engines over the last 20 years. Jalopnik have a great article about it that details all of the problems with their most common engines.

When I think of reliability the main thing I am concerned with is engine and gearbox. Everything else is secondary and Alfa are good in both of those areas.

But If I google a cough I’ll probably be told it’s cancer! I’m telling you I’ve spent nothing on my Bmw, your saying you’ve spent little on your Alfa’s... yet google says different! In fairness I think image comes into or many times .. for instance I’ve had to get my brake calipers freed on the corolla before and I’ve a friend with an Audi who turned around a month or two later and said I seem to be having trouble with my corolla! And this same mans Audi visits his mechanic at least once a month! And he’l tell ya it’s very reliable!!

grogi · 30-01-2019 1:47am

H3llR4iser wrote: »

So...why would YOU not buy one and end up with a BMW/Audi instead? Is it the brand image? The pub talk about reliability? If you bought a 3-Series or an A4 in the last couple of years, did you even consider a Giulia in the lead up to the final decision?

TCO of an Alfa would be much bigger. Not because I expect to spend more time and money on maintenance, but it will be severely impacted by galactic depreciation. Plus number of dealerships servicing those cars.

MTBD · 30-01-2019 1:48am

LillySV wrote: »

But If I google a cough I’ll probably be told it’s cancer! I’m telling you I’ve spent nothing on my Bmw, your saying you’ve spent little on your Alfa’s... yet google says different! In fairness I think image comes into or many times .. for instance I’ve had to get my brake calipers freed on the corolla before and I’ve a friend with an Audi who turned around a month or two later and said I seem to be having trouble with my corolla! And this same mans Audi visits his mechanic at least once a month! And he’l tell ya it’s very reliable!!

Oh I do completely agree there about perception. A friend of the family bought a 156 and he had some minor problems that didn't ever leave him stranded or anything like that. He just started slating it non stop saying how he should have known better than to get an Alfa. Even I find it hard to escape the wrath of confirmation bias. I sometimes have a small issue and immediately the reputation of poor reliability enters my head. Even though its just a normal wear and tear or old part. It's very hard to not let preconceived notions cloud judgement. I still have a hard time accepting that Subarus aren't reliable because their reputation keeps telling me they are. (I found out the hard way that the reported head gasket issues are very real)

That said we did have a BMW 320d in the family and it was shockingly bad. Just constant issues from day one. I know there are good ones out there that will never cause a day of trouble though but I know too many people who have had issues with them once they go over 100,000 miles.

LillySV · 30-01-2019 1:51am

MTBD wrote: »

Oh I do completely agree there about perception. A friend of the family bought a 156 and he had some minor problems that didn't ever leave him stranded or anything like that. He just started slating it non stop saying how he should have known better than to get an Alfa. Even I find it hard to escape the wrath of confirmation bias. I sometimes have a small issue and immediately the reputation of poor reliability enters my head. Even though its just a normal wear and tear or old part. It's very hard to not let preconceived notions cloud judgement. I still have a hard time accepting that Subarus aren't reliable because their reputation keeps telling me they are. (I found out the hard way that the reported head gasket issues are very real)

That said we did have a BMW 320d in the family and it was shockingly bad. Just constant issues from day one. I know there are good ones out there that will never cause a day of trouble though but I know too many people who have had issues with them once they go over 100,000 miles.

Never knew Subaru’s had problems... just as u said, I heard they were very reliable... just very thirsty !

MTBD · 30-01-2019 2:00am

LillySV wrote: »

Never knew Subaru’s had problems... just as u said, I heard they were very reliable... just very thirsty !

Subarus feel well built until you have a catastrophic engine failure that will cost thousands to fix. 2.5 litre turbo petrols and their boxer diesels are ticking time bombs.not sure if they ever sorted the diesels but the 2.5 had head gasket issues for years. Unbuyable machines second hand which still pains me as I really want another.

prinzeugen · 30-01-2019 2:30am

Never owned an Alfa but the guy in the flat downstairs did.

He wanted to sell it and decided it would be a good idea to wash the engine bay before he took pics to post on adverts/donedeal.

He sold it alright.. To a scrapyard! The small bucket of hot soapy water and a paintbrush he used was enough to fry the ECU and most of the other electrics!

ShadowHearth · 30-01-2019 3:20am

prinzeugen wrote: »

Never owned an Alfa but the guy in the flat downstairs did.

He wanted to sell it and decided it would be a good idea to wash the engine bay before he took pics to post on adverts/donedeal.

He sold it alright.. To a scrapyard! The small bucket of hot soapy water and a paintbrush he used was enough to fry the ECU and most of the other electrics!

The guys sounds like a proper tool.

prinzeugen · 30-01-2019 3:52am

ShadowHearth wrote: »

The guys sounds like a proper tool.

A tool without tools! He kept knocking on my door to borrow stuff. IIRC an ECU was going to cost more than the car was worth. Think the carpets got wet also.

Engine bay looked grand though! :-)

Zubeneschamali · 30-01-2019 9:10am

I ran a 155 2.0 from new in 1996 for 6 years, wonderful car, no reliability issues at all.

Not tempted by most of their offerings since. The Giulia is nice.

The absence of a dealer network is a problem, and you'd have to keep it forever as it would be worth nothing after 2 or 3 years, but I like to buy new and keep for a long time anyhow.

Krombopulos Michael · 30-01-2019 9:16am

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The absence of a dealer network is a problem.......

This is the reason I haven't bought an Alfa, as I wanted a Stelvio, but dealers are too far, especially when it comes time to service.

MTBD · 30-01-2019 9:34am

The depreciation thing is being exaggerated here also. If they depreciate that badly how come I can never find a nicely specified one for cheap? A well specified 159 TI will hold it's value just as well as any 3 series or C-Class with similar spec. 156 GTAs are approaching e46 M3 money in the UK despite being a much cheaper car originally. The low spec ones do lose a good bit of money but don't all manufacturers? Volvo's are the worst of any brand I know of for depreciation but it doesn't stop people buying them in large numbers.

Anyway even if it's true if you buy a new car an extra 3-4k in depreciation isn't going to make much difference over 3-5 years. And they come better specified for equal money anyway.

The dealer network is the problem. They are too few and far between and they all have crap ancient buildings.

Why wouldn't you buy an Alfa Romeo? (keep it civilized)

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