Information about over-subscription of Limerick secondary schools

osarusan · 24-05-2018 8:01pm #1

Hi all,

Getting closer to the dreaded process of selection of secondary school for my oldest, and the Common Application Form.

We are trying to find out information on what schools are regularly/always over-subscribed and which are not, but are struggling to do so.

Can anybody point me towards a source for that kind of information? Or is it all kept as private as possible?

banie01 · 24-05-2018 8:16pm

osarusan wrote: »

Hi all,

Getting closer to the dreaded process of selection of secondary school for my oldest, and the Common Application Form.

We are trying to find out information on what schools are regularly/always over-subscribed and which are not, but are struggling to do so.

Can anybody point me towards a source for that kind of information? Or is it all kept as private as possible?

The CAS system carries some caveats that may be of help.
Certain primary schools carry a "right of entry" and other factors such as a parent previously attending the preferred school or living within the schools parish boundary also can confer a right of entry.

All the secondary schools in the CAS system have very clear enrolment policies and these can be reviewed on the individual school's websites.

The main advice I'd give is that if you have a right of entry to a particular school use it.
If you have no right of entry, the available places in the school are allocated 1st to those students who meet any right of entry requirements in the order outlined in the schools admissions policy.
The remaining places are then allocated on a lottery basis to students in the basis of their 1st preference.

osarusan · 24-05-2018 9:10pm

Yeah, I understand the system alright.

What I want to know is whether or not I can find somewhere a list of schools that routinely turn down applicants for whom the school was the first choice.

banie01 · 24-05-2018 9:25pm

osarusan wrote: »

Yeah, I understand the system alright.

What I want to know is whether or not I can find somewhere a list of schools that routinely turn down applicants for whom the school was the first choice.

The schools don't routinely turn down students who list any particular school as a 1st choice. It's a matter of supply and demand.
Take Ard Scoil Ris as an example.
The usual intake of 1st years there is @125 students.
Of that total, @90 places in any given year are given to students with right of entry.
The remaining 35 would be allocated on a lottery basis between the students who made ASR their 1st choice.
If 200 pupils applied with ASR as 1st choice that pushes 65 back into the 2nd schools process.
All the unsuccessful students are then passed to their 2nd choice school.
This raises a problem because the majority of schools have included "1st choice of school" as one of their entry requirements.
So if students entering their lottery system are at the bottom of the preferred entry lists.

There isn't a database of oversubscribed secondary schools as the system is set up in such a way that the vast majority of applicants apply with 1st preference to a school they have right of entry to.

Anecdotally ASR, Crescent Comp and Colaiste Laurel Hill would be the schools that are oversubscribed in terms of being selected as 1st choice.
The remaining schools will usually confirm at Open nights that if you select them as 1st choice you will likely gain a place.

Hurling Rankings · 25-05-2018 12:02pm

This post has been deleted.

osarusan · 25-05-2018 3:28pm

Hurling Rankings wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yeah, I think anecdotal evidence is as far as it goes alright, but it has still been useful so far.

Jane98 · 27-05-2018 12:09pm

osarusan wrote: »

Hi all,

Getting closer to the dreaded process of selection of secondary school for my oldest, and the Common Application Form.

We are trying to find out information on what schools are regularly/always over-subscribed and which are not, but are struggling to do so.

Can anybody point me towards a source for that kind of information? Or is it all kept as private as possible?

Which schools are you considering?

osarusan · 27-05-2018 1:52pm

Jane98 wrote: »

Which schools are you considering?

We haven't even thought that far yet. Just trying to see how common not getting the first choice is.

We live in Corbally, so the closest school would be St Mary's.

I suppose the danger is that if we put somewhere else down as a first choice and we put that school down as a second choice, we might not get get it as a second choice, as all places are already filled by those who put it down as a first choice.

Jane98 · 27-05-2018 2:23pm

osarusan wrote: »

We haven't even thought that far yet. Just trying to see how common not getting the first choice is.

We live in Corbally, so the closest school would be St Mary's.

I suppose the danger is that if we put somewhere else down as a first choice and we put that school down as a second choice, we might not get get it as a second choice, as all places are already filled by those who put it down as a first choice.

Ardscoil Mhuire (St. Marys) is a great school and has seen an increase in demand in the last few years since Brid Herbert was appointed as principal. If you want to go there you will need to put it down as your no. 1 but I believe that you will have a good chance of getting in there if you do. I hear demand was very strong this year and as a result they increased the no. of 1st year classes they would take in from 4 to 5. Good luck.

BobMc · 21-09-2018 12:10pm

Hows Everyone findind it this week with all the open nights taking place? Been to two this week, its tough going

topcat72 · 21-09-2018 6:17pm

Was at the St mary's one and the Gaelcholaiste one - the presentation by st mary's was far better - involved more people and a student, in comparison with the Gaelcholaiste where only the principal spoke for 45 minutes. My guess is thhat if you want St mary's and put it down as choice 1, you will get it. Id run a mile from Ardscoil - esp if you live in Corbally - the advantage of being able to walk to school or study in leaving cert year is huge - rather than being car dependent to Ardscoil. Was not impressed at all with the tone of Laurel Hill school. Up themselves to the extreme, esp ehen other schools hae rapidly improved 3rd level entry ( 90% in Ardscoil Mhuire) 84% in Gaelcholaiste .
Obv, if you have sons and daughters , crescent or gaelcholaiste make more sense as they will take second child by right of entry

Jane98 · 21-09-2018 6:23pm

topcat72 wrote: »

Was at the St mary's one and the Gaelcholaiste one - the presentation by st mary's was far better - involved more people and a student, in comparison with the Gaelcholaiste where only the principal spoke for 45 minutes. My guess is thhat if you want St mary's and put it down as choice 1, you will get it. Id run a mile from Ardscoil - esp if you live in Corbally - the advantage of being able to walk to school or study in leaving cert year is huge - rather than being car dependent to Ardscoil. Was not impressed at all with the tone of Laurel Hill school. Up themselves to the extreme, esp ehen other schools hae rapidly improved 3rd level entry ( 90% in Ardscoil Mhuire) 84% in Gaelcholaiste .
Obv, if you have sons and daughters , crescent or gaelcholaiste make more sense as they will take second child by right of entry

When you mention St. Marys do you mean Ardscoil Mhuire in Corbally and when you mention Ardscoil do you mean Ardscoil Ris?

BobMc · 21-09-2018 6:29pm

It's a daughter we have. Was at LH and ASM this week. Both had plus and minus points. We'll be discussing them all amongst us to make a decision have time on our side thankfully

topcat72 · 22-09-2018 5:08pm

sorry, by St mary's I meant Ardscoil Mhuire , Corbally. Was impressed by them there, to be honest. unimpressed by Laurel Hill ( both the Colaiste and the regular. We will probably go with the Gaelcholaiste , but primarily because we have girl and boy to follow , so co-ed makes more sense in our situation.

Jane98 · 16-10-2018 9:48am

Anyone doing the rounds of the open nights at the moment?

Which schools have impressed you and which haven't?

Stab*City · 16-10-2018 11:58am

I've done a couple for my son.. The main thing that stands out to me is the lack of IT. Very little mention of probably the biggest industry in the world at the moment. I asked and was told 'Oh yes we do use computers'.

colaiste · 24-10-2018 2:45am

Stab*City wrote: »

I've done a couple for my son.. The main thing that stands out to me is the lack of IT. Very little mention of probably the biggest industry in the world at the moment. I asked and was told 'Oh yes we do use computers'.

Coláiste Chiaráin are doing the new Computer Science Leaving Cert course and coding short course at Junior Cert.

Avatar MIA · 24-10-2018 3:15am

topcat72 wrote: »

Was at the St mary's one and the Gaelcholaiste one - the presentation by st mary's was far better - involved more people and a student, in comparison with the Gaelcholaiste where only the principal spoke for 45 minutes.

He does have a tendency to talk alright, but a very capable principal. The new school will be complete in a couple of years, so your child will see it. The current school is a little claustrophobic. However, it's a very good school and caters for very strong students but also works well for those that need to put in the work to achieve their potential. Anecdotal - I imagine it's oversubscribed.

osarusan · 07-11-2018 9:26pm

I presume I am right in my understanding that even though any school you visit will give you an application form, we only complete one form, and submit that to our first choice school?

Who will then either accept the application, or, if unsuccessful, pass it on to the second school on the list?

Osk · 07-11-2018 10:29pm

Yes osarusan.

However, if you are unsuccessful with your first preference it is unlikely you will get your 2nd or 3rd preference to the best of my knowledge. It tends to drop down to 6th/7th preference. Most schools won’t take you if you don’t put them as #1. That’s the conundrum you face when completing the form...

frankston · 08-11-2018 1:59am

osarusan wrote: »

I presume I am right in my understanding that even though any school you visit will give you an application form, we only complete one form, and submit that to our first choice school?

Who will then either accept the application, or, if unsuccessful, pass it on to the second school on the list?

It is my understanding that

If you are unsuccessful your application is not passed to your second choice it is passed to a central processing house, any school who have not received enough application then inform this central processing unit of the number of places they have available and the students are then distributed accordingly

Thus once a school has less places than first preference application it will never see any
other applications forms . So if you put a school that fills up on 1st preferences as number 2 they will never see your application.

stuckintipp · 08-11-2018 11:49am

Osk wrote: »

Yes osarusan.

However, if you are unsuccessful with your first preference it is unlikely you will get your 2nd or 3rd preference to the best of my knowledge. It tends to drop down to 6th/7th preference. Most schools won’t take you if you don’t put them as #1. That’s the conundrum you face when completing the form...

Id Imagine the following schools will all be full on R1;
Laurel Hill
Crescent
Castletroy
St Munchins
Ard Scoil

Not so sure on GCL and St Marys, but if not full almost full.

If you want to send your child to any of the 5 listed at the start you should have them as R1, having them as R2 is a waste and and will hinder your child getting into the almost full schools as they will give priority to schools that put them 2nd before a school that puts them 7th.

Jane98 · 08-11-2018 11:58am

stuckintipp wrote: »

Id Imagine the following schools will all be full on R1;
Laurel Hill
Crescent
Castletroy
St Munchins
Ard Scoil

Not so sure on GCL and St Marys, but if not full almost full.

If you want to send your child to any of the 5 listed at the start you should have them as R1, having them as R2 is a waste and and will hinder your child getting into the almost full schools as they will give priority to schools that put them 2nd before a school that puts them 7th.

I'd add Mungret CC to that list too.

BobMc · 08-11-2018 12:01pm

To be fair, if you read the policies given for any individual school most will be straight enough with their entrance policy.

If you dont fit into on of the top 5 to 6 entrance policies, you're wasting your time applying,

I can recall attending Munchins for our son few years back, and the admissions policy was explicitly explained and at what point they are full. If you fell outside those policies, its written between the lines not to apply,

Its a game and your expected to know the rules and play them

thesimpsons · 08-11-2018 2:55pm

stuckintipp wrote: »

Id Imagine the following schools will all be full on R1;
Laurel Hill
Crescent
Castletroy
St Munchins
Ard Scoil

Not so sure on GCL and St Marys, but if not full almost full.

.

add Laurel Hill Colaiste to the list too

stuckintipp · 08-11-2018 3:43pm

thesimpsons wrote: »

add Laurel Hill Colaiste to the list too

Correct, meant both LH's but was too lazy to write.

I heard that Mungret had increased their intake so its possible they wont be oversubscribed during this application period (But they may)

osarusan · 08-11-2018 10:42pm

Yes thanks all, that's what I thought.

Osk · 09-11-2018 2:01am

BobMc wrote: »

To be fair, if you read the policies given for any individual school most will be straight enough with their entrance policy.

If you dont fit into on of the top 5 to 6 entrance policies, you're wasting your time applying,

Yes and no. We didn’t fit into any of the entrance policies for Ard Scoil and Laurel
Hill and risked putting both down as #1 and were successful both times.

We completed the forms in detail with a separate letter giving more information on our child, included reference letters and met the principals.

It was a risk but we were successful.

Good luck - it’s a very stressful system.

Kenny B · 09-11-2018 2:51pm

Every school stressed the importance of ticking the GDPR box, if it is not ticked and you don't get 1st choice, they can't pass your application on the next port of call.

stuckintipp · 09-11-2018 3:06pm

Osk wrote: »

Yes and no. We didn’t fit into any of the entrance policies for Ard Scoil and Laurel
Hill and risked putting both down as #1 and were successful both times.

We completed the forms in detail with a separate letter giving more information on our child, included reference letters and met the principals.

Am i correct in saying that Ard Scoil do not really operate a tiered entrance system?

Many schools give priority to Primary schools in the vicinity or children that live locally but i think Ard scoil do not do that.

This may help explain how you may have gotten in if not from the area, especially if you met the principal, submitted letters of reference (is this allowed).

Osk · 09-11-2018 6:18pm

stuckintipp wrote: »

Am i correct in saying that Ard Scoil do not really operate a tiered entrance system?

Many schools give priority to Primary schools in the vicinity or children that live locally but i think Ard scoil do not do that.

This may help explain how you may have gotten in if not from the area, especially if you met the principal, submitted letters of reference (is this allowed).

I don't know the specifics of Ard Scoil - I just knew we didn't meet any of the entry criteria.

Reference letters are not encouraged - if they are allowed I don't know. We included them with the forms and they weren't returned to us...they might have been dumped or completely ignored but who knows?!

stuckintipp · 03-11-2019 7:33pm

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/new-limerick-secondary-school-to-install-gender-neutral-toilets-961522.html

Educate Together making their pitch for students.

Anyone know how they are doing in the old Salesian Building. Are they getting many R1 applications?

Lobsterlady · 04-11-2019 1:42am

stuckintipp wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/new-limerick-secondary-school-to-install-gender-neutral-toilets-961522.html

Educate Together making their pitch for students.

Anyone know how they are doing in the old Salesian Building. Are they getting many R1 applications?

I was a bit annoyed that their main 'pitch' and headline in the Limerick Leader for their new school is gender neutral toilets....I mean glad their going with the times...but isn't there so much more to education and what they can offer, than the loos that cover all bases?. Crikey at the end of the day, we all have to go to the loo, why oh why is it such a big deal if you have to go to the boys or girls. Why does this headline above all the other facilities it will offer?

What is an R1 by the way?

Mango Joe · 04-11-2019 12:27pm

Educate Together Secondary School had a car crash of an open night and failed to impress on every level (Last years was supposed to have been similar)

The Principal really annoyed me by announcing they were the best secondary school in Limerick and they firmly believe this....The reality is that they're only around for about 10 seconds in the historical timeline of education in Limerick and managed to get themselves set up in a completely different catchment area to the Educate Together Primary school which was nothing short of asinine.

The fact is its easy to be all talk and tell everyone you're progressive and keen to try new and innovative approaches.....But you need to support and direct that through intelligence, a proper approach, dedication and hard work....... This remains very much to be seen.

The Educate Together ethos needs to be supported and maintained.... In my experience the majority of Teachers interview for open positions based on whether they fancy a nice new job or not and really couldn't give a damn otherwise so this ethos can then go out the windows shortly after.

Lobsterlady I presume R1 = Round 1 of offers?

Eoinbmw · 04-11-2019 9:18pm

Lobsterlady wrote: »

I was a bit annoyed that their main 'pitch' and headline in the Limerick Leader for their new school is gender neutral toilets....I mean glad their going with the times...but isn't there so much more to education and what they can offer, than the loos that cover all bases?. Crikey at the end of the day, we all have to go to the loo, why oh why is it such a big deal if you have to go to the boys or girls. Why does this headline above all the other facilities it will offer?

What is an R1 by the way?

It would 100% rule out me sending my daughters to that school!

martyc5674 · 04-11-2019 11:53pm

Lobsterlady wrote: »

I was a bit annoyed that their main 'pitch' and headline in the Limerick Leader for their new school is gender neutral toilets....

In fairness that was more headline grabbing by the media than anything else.
I don’t think ET we’re using this as some kind of leverage, in fact given how conservative this country is I think it would likely have the opposite effect.

Lobsterlady · 05-11-2019 12:44am

martyc5674 wrote: »

In fairness that was more headline grabbing by the media than anything else.
I don’t think ET we’re using this as some kind of leverage, in fact given how conservative this country is I think it would likely have the opposite effect.

Yes very true Martyc, it was just headline grabbing and probably wouldn't have been ET's choice for a headline. I too think that a lot of parents would be put off by the idea of shared toilets, but I'm guessing there will also be just boys and girls toilets too? I'd have been mortified as a teen girl knowing there could be a lad in the toilet next to me:-)

I do wish them the best though as Castletroy badly needs another secondary school, Castletroy College is bursting at the seams. But like any school, it will take a while to get established and their ethos wouldn't be for everyone.

iguana · 05-11-2019 12:45am

Eoinbmw wrote: »

It would 100% rule out me sending my daughters to that school!

It depends on the toilet set up itself surely. If all of the toilets are separate small rooms, with full doors and walls and self-contained sinks in each room, accessed off a main corridor, then it makes sense for them to be for anyone. If it's a toilet block like a standard ladies toilet block, ie a large room with a row of sinks opposite a row of cubicles, then I think it potentially leads to a lot of discomfort and embarrassment for many students of both genders. As the gender neutral toilets are being mentioned in articles about the architectural plans for the school then hopefully it's the latter. If not, then yes I could see more students and their families, especially female students, seeing the toilets as a major negative aspect of the school rather than a positive.

iguana · 05-11-2019 12:49am

Lobsterlady wrote: »

I do wish them the best though as Castletroy badly needs another secondary school, Castletroy College is bursting at the seams.

Small point but the school is going to be in Ballysimon more so than Castletroy.

Lobsterlady · 05-11-2019 1:18am

iguana wrote: »

Small point but the school is going to be in Ballysimon more so than Castletroy.

True that is the Ballysimon area. It will be a majority of the Castletroy primary schools that will feed into it (Monaleen, Milford), and probably also Lisnagry, and Ahane. It'll probably at first get filled by 2nd and 3rd choices on the CAS forms. Not sure what other primary's are nearby- there are a few small ones on the Dublin Road up near the parkway.

iguana · 05-11-2019 9:19am

Lobsterlady wrote: »

True that is the Ballysimon area. It will be a majority of the Castletroy primary schools that will feed into it (Monaleen, Milford), and probably also Lisnagry, and Ahane. It'll probably at first get filled by 2nd and 3rd choices on the CAS forms. Not sure what other primary's are nearby- there are a few small ones on the Dublin Road up near the parkway.

In terms of geography, St Brigids is the nearest primary pretty much just on the other end of Bloodmill Rd from the site. It's hardly a small school with roughly 560 pupils. St Patricks Boys and Girls, are the two on the Dublin Rd. Le Cheile in Roxboro is probably as near if not nearer than the Castletroy schools. I was at the public meetings when the schools in Mungret and Castletroy were being planned and the demand for an ET was huge. Kids from the School Project and Mungret ET will overwhelmingly apply to the ET. The fact that the Ballysimon location is more accessible from the city, will make it easier for people who already commute from all over to take their kids to the ET primary schools.

It was also obvious as all hell from day one of the public meetings, that the department was going to give Mungret to the ETB and Castletroy to ET as Castletroy College was already under the patronage of the ETB. The location of the feeder primary schools was clearly an utter irrelevance to the Dept. They had two new schools and two groups applying to be patron of both. The easiest answer was going to be to give them one each but not have the two ETB schools be local to each other.

thesimpsons · 05-11-2019 5:38pm

I recently had to made a dropoff at UL for 8.30am and came back along Grody Road towards Northern Trust. Traffic was horrendous along Groody road, Ballysimon Road and the exit from the motorway. I'd imagine adding in 1000 pupils is only going to escalate the traffic problem.

Eire-Dearg · 05-11-2019 6:26pm

This is going to cause unimaginable problems to traffic in the mornings, adding another few hundred cards plus buses and pedestrian traffic to an already busy roundabout.

They've already had to create a slip road from the Groody Road onto the Ballysimon sliproad which relieved a lot of pressure in the evenings, but morning times have become very busy and traffic is often at a standstill heading from the traffic lights at the top of the hill towards the roundabout, between city traffic, UL traffic plus Northern Trust. Those lights are also a haven for incidents and bang-ups nearly once a week. Unless they can magically create some slip road or ramp for NT/school traffic, or divert traffic to UL elsewhere, it is going to be a massive problem during the school year.

iguana · 05-11-2019 10:03pm

thesimpsons wrote: »

I recently had to made a dropoff at UL for 8.30am and came back along Grody Road towards Northern Trust. Traffic was horrendous along Groody road, Ballysimon Road and the exit from the motorway. I'd imagine adding in 1000 pupils is only going to escalate the traffic problem.

There is a plan to make Bloodmill Rd the main school road and the move the Bloodmill Rd exit further up Groody Rd, to the second roundabout rather than the Ballysimon Roundabout it currently comes to. There is a housing development planned on Bloodmill Rd too.

Jane98 · 12-01-2020 12:09am

Anyone got a child in 6th class waiting on news of a secondary school place?

Where did you apply to and why and are you hopeful?

topcat72 · 29-01-2020 9:09pm

Our eldest got into the Gaelcholaiste, thank feck . Delighted, it was a stressful enough time.
A general observation that we could use more co-ed schools in the city. Too many single sex schools.

stuckintipp · 30-01-2020 11:18am

topcat72 wrote: »

Our eldest got into the Gaelcholaiste, thank feck . Delighted, it was a stressful enough time.
A general observation that er could use more co-ed schools in the city. Too many single sex schools.

Off the top of my head, approx intake numbers;

Mixed
Crescent 200
Castletroy 200
Educate together 60
Thomond 120
Croom 140
Pallaskenry 80
GCL 160
Mungret 120

Single boys
ASR 160
St Munchins 120
St Clements 100
CBS 60

Single Girls
LH Irish 60
LH 100
Pres 70

If i've forgotten any school or the numbers are off feel free to contradict.

Burning Eclipse · 30-01-2020 12:47pm

stuckintipp wrote: »

Off the top of my head, approx intake numbers;

Mixed
Crescent 200
Castletroy 200
Educate together 60
Thomond 120
Croom 140
Pallaskenry 80
GCL 160
Mungret 120

Single boys
ASR 160
St Munchins 120
St Clements 100
CBC 60

Single Girls
LH Irish 60
LH 100
Pres 70

If i've forgotten any school or the numbers are off feel free to contradict.

Villiers, which is mixed and take approx 80-90.

banie01 · 30-01-2020 1:47pm

ASR is 125 split into 5 classes afaik.

OfTheMarsWongs · 30-01-2020 2:35pm

Ardscoil Mhuire took 60+ last year (I think). Don’t recall the exact number.

topcat72 · 30-01-2020 5:16pm

The following might be useful for anyone goung through this next year - of the two 6th classes in our primary school ( a class of 21 and a class of 26, boys and girls ) only 1 of them didnt get their first choice - ( which was Ardscoil Rís, he got offered Clements his no 2 choice instead) . This was a very good % - and came despite a lot of warnings from schools about oversubscription this year ( due somewhat of a bulge in numbers ) We even got an additional letter from the Gaelcholaiste warning us that applicants would not get in , etc, to allow us to change if we wanted ( which we didnt obviously, as its within walking distance of home) .
The system, while fair , is a bit daunting. But perhaps, like the CAO there is no better system currently.

Information about over-subscription of Limerick secondary schools

Comments