Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
HAP for landlords
Options
Comments
-
It is not bizarre at all, it is intentional since the govvie does not want to invest the resources to take on the risk of non-paying tenants and they know that Social Welfare tenants are at higher risk of non payment or damage. Usual Irish govvie hypocrisy.
Expect it to get worse. There are a lot of investors who bought in 2011 & 2012 who can avail of the exemption of capital gains tax after 7 years. These investors are only waiting to exit the market.0 -
The_Conductor wrote: »Eh, no.
If the tenant stop paying the council-the landlord gets *nothing*- as in, nothing whatsoever. The landlord does not get the local authority's/council's portion of the rent- the landlords payment is stopped in full........
The risk is 100% pushed onto the landlord- there is no risk whatsoever for the council.
And the icing on the cake- if the tenant stops paying the council their portion of the rent- the council won't talk to the landlord or tell them why they're not getting paid- the landlord gets told absolutely nothing- on data protection grounds.
The only insurance company who were offering landlord rental insurance (as opposed to buildings cover) in Ireland- have pulled out- in light of this little stunt.
Also- there are plenty of instances of rent being unilaterally decreased- normally by a set percentage- not relating to a particular property- rather, across the board (as-in, limits for areas decreased by government dictat). It has happened- its fact.
I would argue that the LA can't use the data protection act as the contract is a three way contract so the LL is entitled to be provided with details of why a payment is not made by the LA.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 30614
The Student wrote: »I would argue that the LA can't use the data protection act as the contract is a three way contract so the LL is entitled to be provided with details of why a payment is not made by the LA.
I would too- however, the local authorities are a law unto themselves (sometimes literally- they'll come up with a by-law to justify their actions- if it can't be supported with primary legislation..........) Sigh........ Its a Friday evening- I think its time to open a bottle of vinho verde!0 -
The_Conductor wrote: »I would too- however, the local authorities are a law unto themselves (sometimes literally- they'll come up with a by-law to justify their actions- if it can't be supported with primary legislation..........) Sigh........ Its a Friday evening- I think its time to open a bottle of vinho verde!
Enjoy your wine.0 -
If you are paying a mortgage, and want to do HAP, not being able to get insurance which your mortgage requires would probably cause you issues with the bank. Hrm. A rock and a hard place. I wonder are people just "forgetting" to tell their insurance provider that they have a HAP tenant?
Could be used as a way to refuse HAP applicants ?The_Conductor wrote: »The only insurance company who were offering landlord rental insurance (as opposed to buildings cover) in Ireland- have pulled out- in light of this little stunt.0 -
Advertisement
-
If you are paying a mortgage, and want to do HAP, not being able to get insurance which your mortgage requires would probably cause you issues with the bank. Hrm. A rock and a hard place. I wonder are people just "forgetting" to tell their insurance provider that they have a HAP tenant?
The insurance is for non payment of rent and legal fees in relation to evictions it is not your property insurance.0 -
Can any landlord in receipt of Hap confirm they got their payment yesterday ?
Mine did not go through and not sure if it's admin bull**** around holidays or a genuine problem0 -
Join Date:Posts: 30614
Bandana boy wrote: »Can any landlord in receipt of Hap confirm they got their payment yesterday ?
Mine did not go through and not sure if it's admin bull**** around holidays or a genuine problem
Some councils (Cork for example) seem to have messed up their end of year payments. If it doesn't hit your account by Tuesday- follow up. The bigger issue is- even in councils which have evidently botched their end-of-year payments (the aforementioned Cork)- some do seem to have gone through- its not consistent).
Edit: Galway also seem to be an issue- over on Irishlandlord.0 -
Spanish Eyes wrote: »That is really outrageous isn't it.
If only Eoghan Murphy pulled up his sleeves and brought in a scheme whereby the LAs take a lease from prospective LLs for HAP tenants, then they vet, check, and bring the dwelling up to the standard they require. Then sub let it to the tenant.
LA takes responsibility, LL gets paid no matter what.
But as you say why would they do that, i.e. take all the risk and the LL takes none.
Bizarre. No wonder LLs are leaving in their droves.
why would a tennant refuse to pay the council their share of the rent?
Could it be that an issue has occurred that was ignored to the point that the tennant was so desperate to have the problem resolved that they refused to pay anymore rent? What other reason could there be for not paying the rent?
In the case of the LA inspecting properties that are suitable and up to whatever standard that has been set, I'm in a property with zero insulation, I mean nothing. The place is freezing but it has some other good benefits, like location and noise levels are very low.0 -
dennispenn wrote: »Spanish Eyes wrote: »That is really outrageous isn't it.
If only Eoghan Murphy pulled up his sleeves and brought in a scheme whereby the LAs take a lease from prospective LLs for HAP tenants, then they vet, check, and bring the dwelling up to the standard they require. Then sub let it to the tenant.
LA takes responsibility, LL gets paid no matter what.
But as you say why would they do that, i.e. take all the risk and the LL takes none.
Bizarre. No wonder LLs are leaving in their droves.
why would a tennant refuse to pay the council their share of the rent?
Could it be that an issue has occurred that was ignored to the point that the tennant was so desperate to have the problem resolved that they refused to pay anymore rent? What other reason could there be for not paying the rent?
In the case of the LA inspecting properties that are suitable and up to whatever standard that has been set, I'm in a property with zero insulation, I mean nothing. The place is freezing but it has some other good benefits, like location and noise levels are very low.
Why indeed. Some tenants will not pay because they would rather spend the rent money on treating themselves.0 -
Advertisement
-
They need fags and booze.dennispenn wrote: »why would a tennant refuse to pay the council their share of the rent?
They spent the money on presents to their kids, and/or fags and booze.dennispenn wrote: »What other reason could there be for not paying the rent?
Did you somehow miss said lack of insulation when you viewed the place before renting it?dennispenn wrote: »In the case of the LA inspecting properties that are suitable and up to whatever standard that has been set, I'm in a property with zero insulation, I mean nothing. The place is freezing but it has some other good benefits, like location and noise levels are very low.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 30614
dennispenn wrote: »why would a tennant refuse to pay the council their share of the rent?
Because they've spent the money on something else.dennispenn wrote: »Could it be that an issue has occurred that was ignored to the point that the tennant was so desperate to have the problem resolved that they refused to pay anymore rent? What other reason could there be for not paying the rent?
The tenant has no right to withold rent- it is their core obligation (on a list of rights and obligations) when they are renting property. Once they withold rent- regardless of any other factor, they are in breach of their tenancy- and subject to possible termination of the tenancy. This is wholly aside from *any* other factor. If you need to get work done- use some other mechanism- but don't withold rent.dennispenn wrote: »In the case of the LA inspecting properties that are suitable and up to whatever standard that has been set, I'm in a property with zero insulation, I mean nothing. The place is freezing but it has some other good benefits, like location and noise levels are very low.
Local authority inspections are very thorough- to the extent that 96% of rented accommodation nationally, and 98.2% of owner occupied property- fails current local authority inspections. I.e. rented accommodation- is marginally better than owner occupied property- not that that is of any comfort to either tenants or owner occupiers.
Our historic housing stock- and the so-so approach we had to insulation and energy saving- are at fault- but so too is our regime whereby if a landlord upgrades a property to improve its energy efficiency- its viewed by Revenue as an improvement of the property, and is not eligible for tax relief (even stupid things like replacing single glaze windows with double or triple glazing- aren't covered).
Your right- as a tenant- is to a BER certificate detailing the energy efficiency of a dwelling, at the outset of the tenancy- you should demand one. It doesn't mean you'll get insulation- it means lack of insulation will be highlighted as a factor. In your case- with the excellent location etc- even if the lack of insulation was highlighted- its very possible you'd still have rented the property.
Tenants need to be aware that in a HAP tenancy- if the tenant witholds their portion of the rent they are due to pay to the council/local authority- the rent is stopped in full for landlords- not just that portion accruing to the tenant. So- if a tenant doesn't pay their 100 Euro- the landlord gets nada. And for landlords- the icing on the cake- is the local authority won't tell them the rent is being stopped- or why- on data protection grounds- they will only talk to the tenant- which means the landlord has no option but to issue a 14 notice of rent arrears, as a first step to terminating the tenancy (and the RTB undertake to hear these cases within 6 weeks now).
HAP tenants who have rent arrears notices and termination notices served on them- are now the single biggest cohort of cases being reported to the RTB- eclipsing the former top category (unfair witholding of deposits by landlords) by a factor of 8.0 -
I AM a HAP Tennant. Please don't tell me about inspections and how thorough they are. They may well be on paper but the person who is signing off on the property on behalf of the LA probably hasn't a notion of what to look for and so on.
You're correct in stating I would have taken the property regardless of it's Ber rating because the alternative was sleeping under the Stars.so I had no choice.thats the reality I faced and having a Ber rating ain't worth sh1t to me when the property is freezing.
It's literally just an extension with blocks with plaster and paint on the walls.0 -
dennispenn wrote: »I AM a HAP Tennant. Please don't tell me about inspections and how thorough they are. They may well be on paper but the person who is signing off on the property on behalf of the LA probably hasn't a notion of what to look for and so on.
You're correct in stating I would have taken the property regardless of it's Ber rating because the alternative was sleeping under the Stars.so I had no choice.thats the reality I faced and having a Ber rating ain't worth sh1t to me when the property is freezing.
It's literally just an extension with blocks with plaster and paint on the walls.
You just got a bad inspector. I rent to the LA and the inspection was very thorough.
You are somewhat correct in terms of the BER as same is the energy effeciency of the property not just its insulation.
A lot of older houses were built like that. I live in a house built in the mid 70's and I am still trying to modernize and insulate it.
Due to the Govt interference there is no incentive for landlords to improve properties.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 30614
dennispenn wrote: »I AM a HAP Tennant. Please don't tell me about inspections and how thorough they are. They may well be on paper but the person who is signing off on the property on behalf of the LA probably hasn't a notion of what to look for and so on.
You're correct in stating I would have taken the property regardless of it's Ber rating because the alternative was sleeping under the Stars.so I had no choice.thats the reality I faced and having a Ber rating ain't worth sh1t to me when the property is freezing.
It's literally just an extension with blocks with plaster and paint on the walls.
The inspections are thorough- this is why there is such a high failure rate.
However, what do people want? If a property fails- it comes off the market- and is classified as not-suitable for the rental market? All this will mean- is landlords sell up- lock in any capital appreciation- and its another unit gone from the rental market.........
You- by your own admission- may or may not have gotten a BER cert- however, you'd have rented the property anyway.
Its all well and good suggesting every rental property should comply with today's building regulations. However- the various government departments aren't talking to one another over this. The building regs come under the Department of the Environment- and the rule is any given building has to comply with the building regulations that were in force when the building was constructed- not with the building regs that are in place- were the building completed right here, right now.
The Minister- by his own admission- is on the record stating that it would be prohibitively expensive to retrofit property to today's standards. Yet- if a landlord does go to the trouble of doing so- they are penalised for doing so by Revenue- as any improvement to a building is seen as a stepping stone to increasing the rent- i.e. they should be self funding......... Yet- you then have another Minister with rent-control.......... So- its a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. The only sane thing to do- from a business perspective, is to spend as little as possible on any rental unit- comply with the Act- and if requirements change- such as dictating units must comply with current building regs- sell the units- and buy new units that do comply- if you wish to remain in the market.
This means- you have landlords actively exiting the sector. They are dumping units onto the sale market- that might not comply with current rental regs (which obviously don't apply to PPRs). They are then in competition with FTBs for new higher spec units.........
This is a nutty situation- it is unsustainable- and in no-one's interests, it does a gross disservice to landlords, tenants, prospective buyers, and indeed, the hardpressed taxpayers of the country.
All that is ever going to help the situation- is a massive rollout of new units, in good locations where people want to live- built to reasonable specs (I'd argue that the relaxation of building regs allowing much smaller units- should be looked at urgently and reversed- shoeboxes aren't a long term solution either).
It doesn't help you- or your landlord. If there was a massive increase in supply- so that it was no longer in constraint- the landlord would presumably have to drop the rent to reflect the BER rating for the building- or take remedial action- however, the current supply constrained market- means he/she does not have to do this- and if you try to force them to- they'll simply flip the unit- and to be brutally honest, they'd be nuts to spend money in the current environment.
This is a problem of the government's making- whether they are willing to admit this- or come up with reasonable ways of addressing it- is another issue entirely.0 -
The_Conductor wrote: »The inspections are thorough- this is why there is such a high failure rate.
However, what do people want? If a property fails- it comes off the market- and is classified as not-suitable for the rental market? All this will mean- is landlords sell up- lock in any capital appreciation- and its another unit gone from the rental market.........
You- by your own admission- may or may not have gotten a BER cert- however, you'd have rented the property anyway.
Its all well and good suggesting every rental property should comply with today's building regulations. However- the various government departments aren't talking to one another over this. The building regs come under the Department of the Environment- and the rule is any given building has to comply with the building regulations that were in force when the building was constructed- not with the building regs that are in place- were the building completed right here, right now.
The Minister- by his own admission- is on the record stating that it would be prohibitively expensive to retrofit property to today's standards. Yet- if a landlord does go to the trouble of doing so- they are penalised for doing so by Revenue- as any improvement to a building is seen as a stepping stone to increasing the rent- i.e. they should be self funding......... Yet- you then have another Minister with rent-control.......... So- its a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. The only sane thing to do- from a business perspective, is to spend as little as possible on any rental unit- comply with the Act- and if requirements change- such as dictating units must comply with current building regs- sell the units- and buy new units that do comply- if you wish to remain in the market.
This means- you have landlords actively exiting the sector. They are dumping units onto the sale market- that might not comply with current rental regs (which obviously don't apply to PPRs). They are then in competition with FTBs for new higher spec units.........
This is a nutty situation- it is unsustainable- and in no-one's interests, it does a gross disservice to landlords, tenants, prospective buyers, and indeed, the hardpressed taxpayers of the country.
All that is ever going to help the situation- is a massive rollout of new units, in good locations where people want to live- built to reasonable specs (I'd argue that the relaxation of building regs allowing much smaller units- should be looked at urgently and reversed- shoeboxes aren't a long term solution either).
It doesn't help you- or your landlord. If there was a massive increase in supply- so that it was no longer in constraint- the landlord would presumably have to drop the rent to reflect the BER rating for the building- or take remedial action- however, the current supply constrained market- means he/she does not have to do this- and if you try to force them to- they'll simply flip the unit- and to be brutally honest, they'd be nuts to spend money in the current environment.
This is a problem of the government's making- whether they are willing to admit this- or come up with reasonable ways of addressing it- is another issue entirely.
I took the property because I was homeless, no roof over my head, nowhere to stay. That's what I meant by sleeping under the stars, that was the reality facing me. Fat lot of good having a BER certificate would be to me to me then or even now if I ever wanted to see one. Id hazzard a guess and say if I paid for a ber certificate and the landlord paid for another we would have two different certificates with 2 different readings.
Population increase in ireland is expected to average out at 30,000 net immigrants over the next number of years, not including undocumented who overstay their alloted time. Being a landlord aint all that bad with soaring rents in certain parts of the country.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 30614
dennispenn wrote: »I took the property because I was homeless, no roof over my head, nowhere to stay. That's what I meant by sleeping under the stars, that was the reality facing me. Fat lot of good having a BER certificate would be to me to me then or even now if I ever wanted to see one. Id hazzard a guess and say if I paid for a ber certificate and the landlord paid for another we would have two different certificates with 2 different readings.
Population increase in ireland is expected to average out at 30,000 net immigrants over the next number of years, not including undocumented who overstay their alloted time. Being a landlord aint all that bad with soaring rents in certain parts of the country.
The main beneficiary of soaring rent- is the Revenue Commissioners.
It is far from unusual for a landlord to pay up to 54% tax on rental income.
This salient point is conveniently ignored by the media and the vested groups- who like to have a scapegoat to kick in the corner.
The issue is a scarscity of units being delivered to the market- we need 25k units constructed annually to stand still- in 2017, according to the CIF (and collaborated by CSO stats) we will have 18,300 completions.
The number of landlords- is on downward trajectory- however, the number of large institutional investors- is increasing- which is what Threshold, the Peter McVerry Trust and others were advocating for- until they discovered that institutional investors were a hell of a lot more ruthless than small scale landlords.............
I get what you're saying- you didn't have any alternate but to accept that particular property you took. However- the issue is a lack of property- and government policy- is only tightening the situation for prospective renters. Government policy- to drive small scale landlords from the sector- will result in more units in apartment blocks- and pretty much everything else- will be removed from the market.
We need more supply on the market- and we need to sit down and figure how to get the supply up and running on a sustainable basis. The current system is the result of parochial politics - and the governments need to have a scapegoat and/or whipping boy on whom to heap the blame for their ineptitude.0 -
Had the HAP inspector done their job correctly, the place would have failed, and you'd be "back under the stars". I wonder do some of the HAP inspectors pass the sh|tholes as they know this?dennispenn wrote: »I AM a HAP Tennant. Please don't tell me about inspections and how thorough they are. They may well be on paper but the person who is signing off on the property on behalf of the LA probably hasn't a notion of what to look for and so on.0 -
Had the HAP inspector done their job correctly, the place would have failed, and you'd be "back under the stars". I wonder do some of the HAP inspectors pass the sh|tholes as they know this?
id guess they most certainly do. I have a friend who lives in a large town and he is a HAP client. His dwelling is a kip. One window with cloths and material packed around it to reduce a draft from entering the room. But he can't move because of the lack of apartments and one particular landlord, that I know of, won't rent to Irish or other europeans. Brazilians is what she wants, Brazilians without documentation who pay cash. I know this because when a girl I know very well was moving out of her property, she put my name forward as a tenant ready to move in, but she came back to me and told me the landlord didn't want my kind there, only Brazilians.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 30614
dennispenn wrote: »id guess they most certainly do. I have a friend who lives in a large town and he is a HAP client. His dwelling is a kip. One window with cloths and material packed around it to reduce a draft from entering the room. But he can't move because of the lack of apartments and one particular landlord, that I know of, won't rent to Irish or other europeans. Brazilians is what she wants, Brazilians without documentation who pay cash. I know this because when a girl I know very well was moving out of her property, she put my name forward as a tenant ready to move in, but she came back to me and told me the landlord didn't want my kind there, only Brazilians.
If you have that officially- the landlord is in breach of equality legislation- and its a matter of time before they are in front of a tribunal and in deep manure.0 -
Advertisement
-
Get something like this; https://www.woodies.ie/building-materials/insulation/exitex-glazing-film-4-5m2-clear-1053029dennispenn wrote: »I have a friend who lives in a large town and he is a HAP client. His dwelling is a kip. One window with cloths and material packed around it to reduce a draft from entering the room.
Have something similar on my window here in Toronto; stops the draft very well. You cut the plastic to a rough size, so it's a few inches over, and then put the tape on the wall around the window (so that it criscross itself at the corner), leave it for a minute, then put the plastic on. Use a hairdryer to make it a bit more taunt. Does a grand job!
I find it really comes down to how wide the tape is, when applying it to the wall. Got a Dollar store one before, and the tape was thin, and fairly useless, and the plastic itself felt really thin. Got another with a slightly wider tape, and it found it was easier to apply.
From the sounds of how bad it is for your mate, he'd see an instant heat boost!0 -
I'm a RAS landlord but only for another month. The 5 year in-situ contract was due to expire in June and the council just this week sent their letter announcing a re-inspection before the (assumed by them!) contract is renewed.
I was going to inform them that I will not be renewing (sick of dealing with them tbh) and they can find somewhere else for the tenants to live. Thankfully for all concerned my tenants have given notice themselves just today and will leave at the end of January (I've no problem releasing them early).
Good riddance to that scheme.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 30614
I'm a RAS landlord but only for another month. The 5 year in-situ contract was due to expire in June and the council just this week sent their letter announcing a re-inspection before the (assumed by them!) contract is renewed.
I was going to inform them that I will not be renewing (sick of dealing with them tbh) and they can find somewhere else for the tenants to live. Thankfully for all concerned my tenants have given notice themselves just today and will leave at the end of January (I've no problem releasing them early).
Good riddance to that scheme.
Make sure the council are aware that your contract with them is being terminated by common consent- and ensure they don't go and put a fresh tenant into the unit........... It may be in breach of your agreement with them- but it doesn't mean they won't try to pull a fast one!!!0 -
Honestly it's good advice as I wouldn't put anything past them. First thing in the new year I'll get in to that.The_Conductor wrote: »Make sure the council are aware that your contract with them is being terminated by common consent- and ensure they don't go and put a fresh tenant into the unit........... It may be in breach of your agreement with them- but it doesn't mean they won't try to pull a fast one!!!0
Advertisement