What Irish Marathon is considered flat & fast for a PB?

viperlogic · 02-01-2014 2:43pm #1

Hi all. What marathon in Ireland is considered flat and fast for a PB? I have previously ran Cork, Waterford and Dublin marathons. I have previously seen Limerick and Kildare mentioned and also they are early in the year so should be somewhat cooler, ~13C, compared to Cork and Waterford which were ~19C.

Any suggestions most welcome

Thanks

Cabaal · 02-01-2014 2:51pm

I hear Longford Marathon is pretty flat, never done it though.

menoscemo · 02-01-2014 3:06pm

Cabaal wrote: »

I hear Longford Marathon is pretty flat, never done it though.

It's probably flatter than Dublin but not necessarily faster. It is pretty boring given that there are few runners and basicaly no spectators, water stations are also poor
Overall I would probably give the nod to Dublin tbh.

ultraman1 · 02-01-2014 3:16pm

Eoi Clontarf marathon...if ian Ryan is to be believed

ultraman1 · 02-01-2014 3:16pm

Eoi Clontarf marathon...if ian Ryan is to be believed

Running Fool · 03-01-2014 12:56pm

Apparently Newry this year has changed it's course and they claim it to now be the flattest in Europe.

shane1981 · 03-01-2014 2:27pm

ultraman1 wrote: »

Eoi Clontarf marathon...if ian Ryan is to be believed

Would agree that Clontarf is very flat but very exposed so the wind can be a real killer some days.

ThebitterLemon · 03-01-2014 10:02pm

menoscemo wrote: »

It's probably flatter than Dublin but not necessarily faster. It is pretty boring given that there are few runners and basicaly no spectators, water stations are also poor
Overall I would probably give the nod to Dublin tbh.

+1 to this.

Also roads not closed and parts of the route are on busy roads.

I personally like Limerick, find it a fast PB course.

TbL

dekbhoy · 03-01-2014 10:48pm

Limerick is hilly in places. I found a lot of long uphills but short steep downhills. Can be a bit demoralizing running back through city centre but still 6 miles to go. Overall it's well organized though

Murph_D · 04-01-2014 1:02am

ultraman1 wrote: »

Eoi Clontarf marathon...if ian Ryan is to be believed

Ah now. It's hard enough to squeeze a HM into D3. :rolleyes:

viperlogic · 07-01-2014 12:30pm

Thank you for the reply's. For those who have ran Cork and Limerick, which is a faster course solely from a hill/pull/drag perspective, not supporters or weather etc? I have ran Cork so can then compare.

thx

Mr Freeze · 07-01-2014 12:36pm

Isn't Kildare supposed to be fairly flat too, but probably quite an exposed route?

I'm looking at either doing Limerick or Kildare this year.

menoscemo · 07-01-2014 12:46pm

viperlogic wrote: »

Thank you for the reply's. For those who have ran Cork and Limerick, which is a faster course solely from a hill/pull/drag perspective, not supporters or weather etc? I have ran Cork so can then compare.

thx

I have ran both. Cork is probably a touch faster purely in terms of the course but there is not much in it.

TFBubendorfer · 07-01-2014 12:47pm

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Isn't Kildare supposed to be fairly flat too, but probably quite an exposed route?

I'm looking at either doing Limerick or Kildare this year.

Kildare is reasonably flat, but there are a few climbs in there. I do remember a short but very steep one close to the halfway point that caused half of our group to drop off (I was pacing the 3:30 group).

And yes, it is exposed and it tends to be windy there. But if you're in good shape you can easily set a PB there.

TFBubendorfer · 07-01-2014 12:47pm

viperlogic wrote: »

Thank you for the reply's. For those who have ran Cork and Limerick, which is a faster course solely from a hill/pull/drag perspective, not supporters or weather etc? I have ran Cork so can then compare.

thx

I'd rank them pretty much the same.

Mr Freeze · 07-01-2014 1:00pm

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

And yes, it is exposed and it tends to be windy there. But if you're in good shape you can easily set a PB there.

Thanks, just looking to run my first.
Do you do pace each year for it?

viperlogic · 07-01-2014 1:01pm

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

I'd rank them pretty much the same.

Thanks, I'm gonna go for Limerick id say as have ran Cork and Waterford last year and the heat/humidity in both kicked in about half way which knocked everyone's times. With Limerick earlier in the year the temps "should" be down which will help.

Also looking to line up Amsterdam for later in the year but will see how Limerick goes first.

TFBubendorfer · 07-01-2014 2:59pm

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Thanks, just looking to run my first.
Do you do pace each year for it?

No, I've only paced Kildare once. It's a bit far away from Kerry to be doing it on a regular basis. I did enjoy it very much, though,

ultraman1 · 07-01-2014 5:31pm

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

No, I've only paced Kildare once. It's a bit far away from Kerry to be doing it on a regular basis. I did enjoy it very much, though,

This year will be Ur second year doin it...

TFBubendorfer · 07-01-2014 6:05pm

ultraman1 wrote: »

This year will be Ur second year doin it...

Does that mean you're paying expenses this year, then? :rolleyes:

menoscemo · 07-01-2014 6:12pm

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Does that mean you're paying expenses this year, then? :rolleyes:

Is a free t-shirt and a bag of smarties not enough for you now?

Condo131 · 07-01-2014 9:50pm

One thing to bear in mind if you're thinking of a qualifying time for some big marathons, e.g. Boston, you'll need to have made your qualifying time on an AIMS registered course: This means, in Ireland: Cork, Portumna, Longford or Dublin. Charleville Half is also AIMS registered.

AIMS Calendar

Statement of Interest: I'm an AIMS/IAAF Measurer, and have measured Cork & Charleville.

menoscemo · 07-01-2014 9:55pm

Condo131 wrote: »

One thing to bear in mind if you're thinking of a qualifying time for some big marathons, e.g. Boston, you'll need to have made your qualifying time on an AIMS registered course: This means, in Ireland: Cork, Portumna, Longford or Dublin. Charleville Half is also AIMS registered.

AIMS Calendar

Statement of Interest: I'm an AIMS/IAAF Measurer, and have measured Cork & Charleville.

Not true, Boston accepted qualifying times from waterford, limerick, tralee, Derry and others this year (granted they took a little longer to 'verify' than the ones you mentioned but they accepted them in the end).

Condo131 · 07-01-2014 10:41pm

I stand corrected ......seems that the BAA has relaxed the qualifying races since I last checked.

However, from BAA website:
"There are many marathons that can be used to qualify. The Boston Marathon does not determine what races are Boston Qualifiers. Please contact the race you are interested in attempting your qualifying mark to see if they are certified by either USA Track & Field or AIMS (Association of International Marathons)."

One of the marathons courses you list does not comply with IAAF rules See Rule 240, on Page 246. So...if it isn't AIMS/IAAF certified..caveat emptor.

menoscemo · 07-01-2014 11:08pm

Condo131 wrote: »

I stand corrected ......seems that the BAA has relaxed the qualifying races since I last checked.

However, from BAA website:
"There are many marathons that can be used to qualify. The Boston Marathon does not determine what races are Boston Qualifiers. Please contact the race you are interested in attempting your qualifying mark to see if they are certified by either USA Track & Field or AIMS (Association of International Marathons)."

One of the marathons courses you list does not comply with IAAF rules See Rule 240, on Page 246. So...if it isn't AIMS/IAAF certified..caveat emptor.

Sorry, not reading that....don't shoot the messenger....

ger664 · 08-01-2014 1:36am

AFAIK if the course is measured by an AIMS/IAFF measurer then Boston will accept the time even if its not an AIMS certified Race.

Condo131 · 08-01-2014 11:36am

ger664 wrote: »

AFAIK if the course is measured by an AIMS/IAFF measurer then Boston will accept the time even if its not an AIMS certified Race.

I've no idea what BAA do or do not accept, but I'd be very surprised if they simply accepted on the basis that a course had been measured by an AIMS/IAAF measurer. The level of documentation required for an AIMS/IAAF measurement is significantly higher than for an "ordinary" race. The last sentence of my previous mail might give a bit of insight into that.

Also I've since had a PM about another course where the organisers have, reportedly, shortened the course since the original measurement - looking into that one at the mo'.

ger664 · 08-01-2014 2:53pm

Condo131 wrote: »

I've no idea what BAA do or do not accept, but I'd be very surprised if they simply accepted on the basis that a course had been measured by an AIMS/IAAF measurer. The level of documentation required for an AIMS/IAAF measurement is significantly higher than for an "ordinary" race. The last sentence of my previous mail might give a bit of insight into that.

Just to clarify. It has to be approved by that countries association in our case AAI and is measured by AIMS/IAFF measurer then Boston may accept the qualifying time. Speedy44 qualified this year from Limerick and thats the info which they got from the AAI. That was the case for this year race, but it may not be the case for times required for 2015. It may also depend on the type of permit the race has as well so it would be best to check with race/AAI firstly if a required qualifying time is needed.

As regards the standard of measurement any AIMS course I have ran has been bang on, so it shows the level of detail that is required to measure to that standard.

viperlogic · 08-01-2014 2:57pm

As a matter of interest, is the measured racing line for corners kerb to kerb or does the measured racing line go over footpaths?

Mulberry · 08-01-2014 3:07pm

Condo131 wrote: »

One thing to bear in mind if you're thinking of a qualifying time for some big marathons, e.g. Boston, you'll need to have made your qualifying time on an AIMS registered course: This means, in Ireland: Cork, Portumna, Longford or Dublin. Charleville Half is also AIMS registered.

AIMS Calendar

Statement of Interest: I'm an AIMS/IAAF Measurer, and have measured Cork & Charleville.

Hi there, I'd be very interested to know which side of the road is commonly used for measuring - so in a marathon am I better off sticking to the right or the left or the middle? Or does it make any difference?

At last - someone who knows the answer to this question - hopefully.

Many thanks.

RayCun · 08-01-2014 3:34pm

viperlogic wrote: »

As a matter of interest, is the measured racing line for corners kerb to kerb or does the measured racing line go over footpaths?

kerb to kerb

Mulberry wrote: »

Hi there, I'd be very interested to know which side of the road is commonly used for measuring - so in a marathon am I better off sticking to the right or the left or the middle? Or does it make any difference?

It depends on the route. The racing line is the shortest possible route, on the roads, measured about a foot out from the kerb.
If you come around a left hand turn, and the next corner is also on the left, the shortest route is down the left.
If you come around a right hand turn, and the next corner is also on the right, the shortest route is down the right.
If you come around a left hand turn, and the next corner is on the right, or vice versa, the shortest route is a straight line diagonally across the road from corner to corner.

Condo or ultraman had a really detailed post about this that I can't find

Condo131 · 08-01-2014 3:41pm

SPR...Shortest Possible Route. Effectively, Line of Sight, bend to bend.

Most runners claim to run the shortest route, however, in my experience, they usually follow the left hand side.

Yes it does make a difference, unless you have a perfectly straight road ....and assuming that you run a perfectly straight line!

There is a particularly winding part of the Cork City Marathon, between Turner's cross church and the turn onto Tramore Road, approx. a third of a mile. If you stick to the left hand side of the road, as the vast majority do every year :rolleyes: , you will cover approx. 17m extra. If that were to be repeated over the entire Marathon, you'd be running an extra 1.3km!!

viperlogic · 08-01-2014 3:44pm

Condo131 wrote: »

There is a particularly winding part of the Cork City Marathon, between Turner's cross church and the turn onto Tramore Road, approx. a third of a mile. If you stick to the left hand side of the road, as the vast majority do every year :rolleyes: , you will cover approx. 17m extra. If that were to be repeated over the entire Marathon, you'd be running an extra 1.3km!!

You usually see this in the tunnel also with people hugging the wall

Mulberry · 08-01-2014 3:48pm

Condo131 wrote: »

SPR...Shortest Possible Route. Effectively, Line of Sight, bend to bend.

Most runners claim to run the shortest route, however, in my experience, they usually follow the left hand side.

Yes it does make a difference, unless you have a perfectly straight road ....and assuming that you run a perfectly straight line!

There is a particularly winding part of the Cork City Marathon, between Turner's cross church and the turn onto Tramore Road, approx. a third of a mile. If you stick to the left hand side of the road, as the vast majority do every year :rolleyes: , you will cover approx. 17m extra. If that were to be repeated over the entire Marathon, you'd be running an extra 1.3km!!

So I am likely to be crossing the road diagonally quite a lot then. Very interesting, thank you RayCun and Condo.

Mulberry

Condo131 · 08-01-2014 4:04pm

Mulberry wrote: »

So I am likely to be crossing the road diagonally quite a lot then.

Yes you are...and, maybe, on your own... with nearly everyone else likely to be on the other side. I frequently find myself in this position....if I could only still run fast to take advantage (these days it's trying to hang on, further & further back :rolleyes: )

The IAAF booklet “The Measurement of Road Races” might be of interest.

TFBubendorfer · 08-01-2014 5:34pm

Condo131 wrote: »

There is a particularly winding part of the Cork City Marathon, between Turner's cross church and the turn onto Tramore Road, approx. a third of a mile. If you stick to the left hand side of the road, as the vast majority do every year :rolleyes: , you will cover approx. 17m extra. If that were to be repeated over the entire Marathon, you'd be running an extra 1.3km!!

It's the same in every other marathon, of course. I especially remember the Clonskeagh section in Dublin. At least half a dozen times I kept telling my pacees "cut the corner, no need to run the long way round!" on that bit of road alone this year.

viperlogic · 08-01-2014 5:38pm

Ran a 5K recently and the elbowing going on to hold the racing line was crazy, never experienced it before

donnacha · 08-01-2014 8:18pm

viperlogic wrote: »

Hi all. What marathon in Ireland is considered flat and fast for a PB? I have previously ran Cork, Waterford and Dublin marathons. I have previously seen Limerick and Kildare mentioned and also they are early in the year so should be somewhat cooler, ~13C, compared to Cork and Waterford which were ~19C.

Any suggestions most welcome

Thanks

I'd guess Wexford must be up there - its on in late April also.

menoscemo · 08-01-2014 8:24pm

donnacha wrote: »

I'd guess Wexford must be up there - its on in late April also.

It's a Half though, OP wants a Marathon

RayCun · 09-01-2014 9:35am

viperlogic wrote: »

Ran a 5K recently and the elbowing going on to hold the racing line was crazy, never experienced it before

Well that's another story. Yes, racing line is the shortest possible route so in theory the fastest, but if the course is packed there'll be a crush on the corners, which will break your stride and slow you down (or trip you up!). Sometimes you'll be better off going a bit wide and staying out of trouble.

Or beating everyone else to the corner, that works too.

robinph · 09-01-2014 1:33pm

People just tend to follow the person in front. I have managed to get some people to follow me along the short route when all in front are going the long way. A look back at the next bend and some do then start to take the short route. It probably only needs a slightly bigger gap between people again and they would be back to hugging the left kerb again.

A 5km is a different matter as people are thinking of themselves going fast. In a marathon though you are trying to stay relaxed and just let the guy in front think about what route to take.

echancrure · 09-01-2014 1:36pm

What's the etiquette then of cutting a corner by mounting the pavement?

Is it a big no no or is it "well if you can do it do it!" ?

robinph · 09-01-2014 1:36pm

RayCun wrote: »

Well that's another story. Yes, racing line is the shortest possible route so in theory the fastest, but if the course is packed there'll be a crush on the corners, which will break your stride and slow you down (or trip you up!). Sometimes you'll be better off going a bit wide and staying out of trouble.

Or beating everyone else to the corner, that works too.

In big short races or cross country I'll deliberately try to position myself so that I'm on the outside of the first corner and don't get stuck in a crush. Get past loads of people easily then.

RayCun · 09-01-2014 1:42pm

echancrure wrote: »

What's the etiquette then of cutting a corner by mounting the pavement?

Is it a big no no or is it "well if you can do it do it!" ?

It's a big no no

TFBubendorfer · 09-01-2014 3:05pm

RayCun wrote: »

It's a big no no

But it happens all the time

RayCun · 09-01-2014 3:12pm

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

But it happens all the time

Not at the front

robinph · 09-01-2014 3:59pm

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

But it happens all the time

The top of O'Connell Street in DCM is a prime spot for corner cutting where you turn left. Have had no choice but to cut the corner there as the crowds of support are thin, but there is still a big crowd of runners around you that when they all move in from the right to take the turn you have no choice but to go with them.

There is an even bigger corner that gets cut somewhere after half way, not sure what area, as the road takes the long way round but there is a kind of dead end lay by bit of road that people run the short cut through. No excuse to cut the corner there though as the crowds of runners are much thinner and you can easily chose your own route

Murph_D · 09-01-2014 5:52pm

robinph wrote: »

There is an even bigger corner that gets cut somewhere after half way, not sure what area, as the road takes the long way round but there is a kind of dead end lay by bit of road that people run the short cut through.

Fortfield Road?

robinph · 09-01-2014 8:53pm

Murph_D wrote: »

Fortfield Road?

That looks like the one. It is really really cheeky to be cutting a corner like that one.

Condo131 · 09-01-2014 10:20pm

robinph wrote: »

The top of O'Connell Street in DCM is a prime spot for corner cutting where you turn left.

Yeah. In 2012, I saw someone cutting the corner and taking a *VERY BAD* fall. Probably a show stopper. I wasn't a Good Samaritan that day....kept running, thanking The Lord that it wasn't me.
Another year, when it went over Capel St Bridge, I saw a girl go full speed into one of the flower thingies...another show stopper.
Cut corners in that fashion at your own risk!

viperlogic · 28-01-2014 12:39pm

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

I'd rank them pretty much the same.

menoscemo wrote: »

I have ran both. Cork is probably a touch faster purely in terms of the course but there is not much in it.

In Cork the course is pretty much flat but gets tough between 18 to 22 miles.

Where are the tough pulls in Limerick?

What Irish Marathon is considered flat & fast for a PB?

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