DoC Fallout

Voa · 22-11-2011 11:57am #1

Alright, let's discuss DoC5 and what might have been done better;
1. 9 hours is too long; There were a few people suggesting to me that we could divvy up the DoCs. Make them monthly instead of bi-monthly and host different games at each one, like one for 2D fighters (BB, SF3, KoF) and 3D fighters (SSF4, MK, MvC3), or one for purely capcom games, one for others. I'd like to hear some thoughts on this.
2. Challonge brackets; some people in losers brackets who know how tournaments are supposed to go noticed that challonge put them against people too early in losers bracket. Ideally, in any double elim tournament, you should never fight someone twice until the very latest possible time, but challonge does odd things and puts people into the same side in losers as they were in in winners, meaning that you'll need to fight the same person the second they get put into losers (assuming you continue through the brackets). Now, to get around this, we COULD use Tournament maker instead, but it would not be online capable, and people who would want to see the seedings would need to download the program. What do people feel? Would you prefer a fully visible bracket online, or a hidden bracket which assigns double elim correctly?
3. Signing up under the same name; if you're gonna be wacky and come up with a bunch of stupid names, at least have the decency to register under the name you're seeded under. It's unfair to G2S if she doesn't know you personally to try to put yourself in as a different name, as she will not be able to use the seeding list I gave her, which will lead to mucked brackets.
4. SSF4 teams will not be AvA, BvB any more. A 20 minute grand final, and almost an hour total added onto the total time is just silly. We may remove SSF4 teams in full.

Beyond that, I think we were well sorted for space, monitors, and efficiency.
If people have any criticism, this is the place to levy them, so lets hear them.

Doctor DooM · 22-11-2011 12:05pm

Well for me, I have to say this was a very tough tournament.

I mean, it's paying off on youtube, I don't think I've ever had this consistently high volume of hits, but I was exhausted, Sinead was too. Things were getting sloppy in the vids dept and it's not anyone's fault, it's just duration. I guess I could properly get another person up to scratch and Sinead and I could have proper breaks

I agree with returning SF4 to the old format. It was messy.

There's an idea if Inferno remains in the 16 people range that we run the single and teams there. This WILL impact DoC's attendance though I am sure, but if the new people who attended for Marvel and MK9 get properly indoctrinated into the scene, that may be an ok turn of events.

I would say this: Marvel appears to be the new big thing (numbers wise from my channel)
. There's clearly loads of people playing it. Right now, I think it should be at every DoC, monthly or bi. We should be trying to grasp onto those new people.

1man3letters · 22-11-2011 12:20pm

on the brackets thing,id rather ones that worked proper than ones i could look up
ive enjoyed the hell out of both docs i went 2 so if they were every month id have no problem with that

Doyler01 · 22-11-2011 12:57pm

I would attend monthly DoC for MvC / SF

chopperbyrne · 22-11-2011 1:14pm

1. 9 hours is too long; There were a few people suggesting to me that we could divvy up the DoCs. Make them monthly instead of bi-monthly and host different games at each one, like one for 2D fighters (BB, SF3, KoF) and 3D fighters (SSF4, MK, MvC3), or one for purely capcom games, one for others. I'd like to hear some thoughts on this.

I'd say rotate some games or just cut down to four instead of five. What were the total number of entrants for each tournament?

2. Challonge brackets; some people in losers brackets who know how tournaments are supposed to go noticed that challonge put them against people too early in losers bracket. Ideally, in any double elim tournament, you should never fight someone twice until the very latest possible time, but challonge does odd things and puts people into the same side in losers as they were in in winners, meaning that you'll need to fight the same person the second they get put into losers (assuming you continue through the brackets). Now, to get around this, we COULD use Tournament maker instead, but it would not be online capable, and people who would want to see the seedings would need to download the program. What do people feel? Would you prefer a fully visible bracket online, or a hidden bracket which assigns double elim correctly?

Pen and paper FTW!

3. Signing up under the same name; if you're gonna be wacky and come up with a bunch of stupid names, at least have the decency to register under the name you're seeded under. It's unfair to G2S if she doesn't know you personally to try to put yourself in as a different name, as she will not be able to use the seeding list I gave her, which will lead to mucked brackets.

I'd say take peoples full names and then whatever nick they want to use on the day. You can then seed by full names.

4. SSF4 teams will not be AvA, BvB any more. A 20 minute grand final, and almost an hour total added onto the total time is just silly. We may remove SSF4 teams in full.

As soon as I heard you say that it would be AvA, BvB I told someone that it would take far too long to run that way.

I think we need some more people to bring four socket plug extensions and maybe utilise the space a bit better. Maybe have a setup on the far end or the other side wall, to free up space around the recording setup.

chueytoo · 22-11-2011 3:46pm

Voa wrote: »

Alright, let's discuss DoC5 and what might have been done better;
1. 9 hours is too long; There were a few people suggesting to me that we could divvy up the DoCs. Make them monthly instead of bi-monthly and host different games at each one, like one for 2D fighters (BB, SF3, KoF) and 3D fighters (SSF4, MK, MvC3), or one for purely capcom games, one for others. I'd like to hear some thoughts on this.

The Idea of it monthly with 2 different DOC sounds good. Have one of them DOC capcom and have it (sf4/umvc/sf3) and have DOC (kof/bb/mk)
Only prob is having it monthly is, having the time to run it. I know your in college and it should be getting hectic at this stage.

But someone else can always help run it.

Linoud · 22-11-2011 4:15pm

9 hours is quite long. The players will get tired/bored by the time the last tournament rolls around. Especially since all the setups are required for the tournaments, there's not much else for them to do if they're eliminated early, except maybe jump on commentary.

I do like the idea Joe tossed out about the two DoCs, one for 3D or Capcom fighters, and then one for the 2D ones. But it is true, if you were to run them monthly you'd need more people helping. I meant to actually ask you how you went about running all of the stuff after the tournament, but I didn't get a chance. I'd be willing to learn and help you out running them at any rate.

Also, about the name change, that was my fault, I didn't really remind G2S that I normally go under the tag of Linoud, but it shouldn't matter for the next one now since I'm not seeded anymore. I'll keep it in mind in the future if I change name to remind her, if I am seeded.

Dreddybajs · 22-11-2011 4:33pm

As I said to you on Saturday Voa, I don't mind taking on some of the responsibility for organising DoC if it went monthly.

Goody2shoes15 · 22-11-2011 5:25pm

Dreddybajs wrote: »

As I said to you on Saturday Voa, I don't mind taking on some of the responsibility for organising DoC if it went monthly.

I'd still be ok with doing it monthly, most of the work i have to do for it is on the friday and saturday so its not a huge hassle for me.

Voa · 22-11-2011 5:34pm

The main hassle would be organising people to bring kit down, rather than the running on the day (provided one has a few people to help out).

chueytoo · 22-11-2011 6:07pm

Voa wrote: »

The main hassle would be organising people to bring kit down, rather than the running on the day (provided one has a few people to help out).

I will always be glad to bring my monitor and ps3 down. Also willing to store stuff for people as well, just to let you know.

Sairus · 22-11-2011 6:57pm

I'd be all for making DoC monthly but chances are I couldn't make every one of them in that case.
Neither would my setup.

UberPrinny_Baal · 22-11-2011 7:02pm

Sairus wrote: »

I'd be all for making DoC monthly but chances are I couldn't make every one of them in that case.
Neither would my setup.

Yeah, I think I'm probably the same.

If fighting game fatigue set in, or there were just too many tournaments and just enough other non-fg things happening on Saturdays; I'd definitely be a lot less inclined to attend every single one, and my set up would be unavailable.

Owwmykneecap · 22-11-2011 10:42pm

No one would show up to a DOC that's MK KOF and BB only.

Maybe removing SF teams would be better.

More setups for quicker tournies and more casuals would be the ideal, the day is extremely long when you get knocked out early. Problem is actually realising it.

1man3letters · 22-11-2011 10:50pm

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

No one would show up to a DOC that's MK KOF and BB only.

the bb/mk players would :pac: get your point though

but having casuals at a tourny? shouldnt all setups be used to get the tourny done quicker?

chueytoo · 22-11-2011 11:05pm

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

No one would show up to a DOC that's MK KOF and BB only.

I wouldn't say no one. but yes it will be less then DOC capcom by far. but this also allows more casual as well if theres less people. I do think there will be enough people with mk and BB to be honest.

Naphiel · 22-11-2011 11:11pm

Agree with Doom about having UMvC3 at both, especially if it's getting the scene some attention.

I'd have SF teams, 3rd Strike and UMvC3 at one and BB, MK, KoF and UMvC3 at the other.

chueytoo · 22-11-2011 11:17pm

Naphiel wrote: »

Agree with Doom about having UMvC3 at both, especially if it's getting the scene some attention.

I'd have SF teams, 3rd Strike and UMvC3 at one and BB, MK, KoF and UMvC3 at the other.

I'm ok with that as well:D

Voa · 23-11-2011 12:42am

I'd like the idea of a monthly DoC, with 2 sets of people organizing each individual DoC, UMvC at both, and dividing the games accordingly. But 4 games is still a lot, and there is the worry that there will be a fatigue setting in from running 2, fairly large monthly tournaments each and every month.

Doctor DooM · 23-11-2011 11:41am

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

No one would show up to a DOC that's MK KOF and BB only.

Maybe removing SF teams would be better.

More setups for quicker tournies and more casuals would be the ideal, the day is extremely long when you get knocked out early. Problem is actually realising it.

Less games would not solve this problem I think as there would be less people at each individual DoC = less set ups.

the 1st hardter · 24-11-2011 1:51am

Yeah I'll be honest, I have to force myself to bring my tv for normal doc and stay late cause it is the main setup. If it was monthly and only bringing in less than 20 I would prob not put the effort in. not being bad but that tv is heavy and I'm not a heavy weight.....

Voa · 29-11-2011 12:13am

Okay, I've thought it over a bit.

I'd think the best bet in terms of the DoC for the new year would be to make a monthly triple game tournament in the third week of the month, with the games rotating between months from UMvC3, BB, KoF13 to UMvC3, SF4 teams, SF3, with a redone monetary plan, fiver per tournament, with a minimum set amount of cash going back to the exchange for the 6-6.30 hours we'd need to use the place (instead of the current 9). This would result in a much lower prize purse overall, but a significant reduction on the amount of required setups, and would also speed up the day, stressing the competitors out less.
I am aware this freezes MK out somewhat, but Kuro is running TYH as a monthly MK tournament (possibly in the second week of every month, hence moving DoC to the third week) so that the MK lads aren't totally frozen out. I believe the XGC allows you to hook up your own console, but don't quote on me on that at this time, things may have changed since I ran WoH there.
I know this effectively doubles the amount of MvC3 tournaments there are, but it's a new game and pretty decent draw. There's also a pretty strong level of MvC here, and I'd like to help it along.

Is there any massive problem with running things this way?

Sairus · 29-11-2011 12:34am

I'd be pretty content with that. DoC was definitely getting a bit unwieldy there.

As much as I dislike MK, I'd still like to see it prosper, but it's really friggin inconvenient that it needs special setups to run on. With Test Your Hype to fill in the blanks I think it's fair enough to let go of it.

Dreddybajs · 29-11-2011 1:01am

We could run SF4 teams at Inferno and have MK9 in that spot at DOC? With the attendance Inferno's been getting recently there'd easily be time to run a team tournament at it, and all the SF4 players would be there anyway (unless this'd majorly take attendance away from that version of DOC).

edit: Or replace 3rd Strike with it? Nobody plays 3rd Strike anyway. :pac:

Voa · 29-11-2011 1:15am

To be honest, I would be looking for help with the second DoC. I'd be organizing the BB-UMvC3-KoF DoC, and hopefully someone would be able to come forward and run/organize the second one. I won't be able to organize and run a multigame tournament monthly when college rolls back around proper. Whoever takes over could put whatever games they believe would generate the most hype in the DoC tournament.

Lythero · 29-11-2011 4:50am

I know this thread has moved from tales of woe to actual solutions by now, but I felt the fatigue like a brick falling on a de-wafered icecream cone. Before getting a bite to eat I got called up to do four UMvC3 matches in a row with the Grand Final from losers brackets. At least I got cold pizza for consolation :'C (obviously, it's my naivety to blame for not finding food earlier, I still had a blast

)

Also I registered my name up as Lythero, but still got called by my real name in commentary and on the YouTube vid titles. It's probably because I never thought to use my gamertag at Eirtakon before it was too late, haha.

If I lived anywhere closer then I'd be delighted to bring more gear to the event, but since I only have time for one or two tourneys before the long trip home it would defeat the point of a console not being there for the whole event. I agree on it being shorter/more frequent though, that way people can get home easier and the hype stays high!

1man3letters · 29-11-2011 9:33am

Voa wrote: »

Okay, I've thought it over a bit.

I'd think the best bet in terms of the DoC for the new year would be to make a monthly triple game tournament in the third week of the month, with the games rotating between months from UMvC3, BB, KoF13 to UMvC3, SF4 teams, SF3, with a redone monetary plan, fiver per tournament, with a minimum set amount of cash going back to the exchange for the 6-6.30 hours we'd need to use the place (instead of the current 9). This would result in a much lower prize purse overall, but a significant reduction on the amount of required setups, and would also speed up the day, stressing the competitors out less.
I am aware this freezes MK out somewhat, but Kuro is running TYH as a monthly MK tournament (possibly in the second week of every month, hence moving DoC to the third week) so that the MK lads aren't totally frozen out. I believe the XGC allows you to hook up your own console, but don't quote on me on that at this time, things may have changed since I ran WoH there.
I know this effectively doubles the amount of MvC3 tournaments there are, but it's a new game and pretty decent draw. There's also a pretty strong level of MvC here, and I'd like to help it along.

Is there any massive problem with running things this way?

came in to read this and obviously im not a happy bunny,
sf3 over mk9 at doc?? seriously wtf?? did kuro's poll not show u how bad sf3 died??
did kuro accualty say TYH would be every month?????
if so, maybe people shouldnt be tryin to get mvc3 at it aswell if this is will THE ONLY place mk will be played now.
like try sayin to any sf/mvc players "ah sure ull have inferno now,you dont need anything else",see how much of a stink is rasied

anyway i really think its a poor decsion on your part voa,check the views on mk at last doc compared to everything,its only beat by marvel
there was new people who joined comummnity at last doc just because of mk,now that game being taken away,especialy with the promotion i do on tym for the irish scene,i find it a bad decsion to make,
no mk player said anything when last 2 docs our finals were cut short,no one said anything when people were LOUDLY expressing opinons on how trash mk was while standing behind the people playin a tourny of it,i think marvel is a terrible game but i keep that to myself and dont be wrecking the marvel players heads about it when there tryin to play.each to there own.
we were just happy the game was bein played and now after bein at what,3 docs? mk gets the boot altogether...i know mk always been at bottom of the ladder but with more new people coming for it and more people in the community learning it,this is bad form, just bad form

Doctor DooM · 29-11-2011 10:12am

All right, big posts!

Lythero wrote: »

I know this thread has moved from tales of woe to actual solutions by now, but I felt the fatigue like a brick falling on a de-wafered icecream cone. Before getting a bite to eat I got called up to do four UMvC3 matches in a row with the Grand Final from losers brackets. At least I got cold pizza for consolation :'C (obviously, it's my naivety to blame for not finding food earlier, I still had a blast )

Also I registered my name up as Lythero, but still got called by my real name in commentary and on the YouTube vid titles. It's probably because I never thought to use my gamertag at Eirtakon before it was too late, haha.

If I lived anywhere closer then I'd be delighted to bring more gear to the event, but since I only have time for one or two tourneys before the long trip home it would defeat the point of a console not being there for the whole event. I agree on it being shorter/more frequent though, that way people can get home easier and the hype stays high!

You don't want to have to play lots of games, don't get knocked into losers

That is the fate of a good player working his way up there.

If you like I can rename the vids, I didn't realise it was a thing. I will definitely be demanding an extra custard cream to do so though.

1man3letters wrote: »

came in to read this and obviously im not a happy bunny,
sf3 over mk9 at doc?? seriously wtf?? did kuro's poll not show u how bad sf3 died??
did kuro accualty say TYH would be every month?????
if so, maybe people shouldnt be tryin to get mvc3 at it aswell if this is will THE ONLY place mk will be played now.
like try sayin to any sf/mvc players "ah sure ull have inferno now,you dont need anything else",see how much of a stink is rasied

anyway i really think its a poor decsion on your part voa,check the views on mk at last doc compared to everything,its only beat by marvel
there was new people who joined comummnity at last doc just because of mk,now that game being taken away,especialy with the promotion i do on tym for the irish scene,i find it a bad decsion to make,
no mk player said anything when last 2 docs our finals were cut short,no one said anything when people were LOUDLY expressing opinons on how trash mk was while standing behind the people playin a tourny of it,i think marvel is a terrible game but i keep that to myself and dont be wrecking the marvel players heads about it when there tryin to play.each to there own.
we were just happy the game was bein played and now after bein at what,3 docs? mk gets the boot altogether...i know mk always been at bottom of the ladder but with more new people coming for it and more people in the community learning it,this is bad form, just bad form

Got to agree with this guy Voa. In my head DoC is all about bringing all the disparate FG players together.

I'd lose 3S first, tbh.

Kuro Tao · 29-11-2011 10:46am

Alright, hear me out here. I never made any claims to a monthly TYH, although I wouldn't mind doing so if it were to be the only source of competitive MK this country has to offer.

However, I have another suggestion.
I would gladly volunteer to run one of the DoC tournies, and make TYH a bi-monthly event instead.
I would strongly urge you NOT to boot MK. DoC has proven to attract a wide audience, and MK is clearly prospering if you look at DooMs youtube.

fr stack · 29-11-2011 11:18am

just my $0.02 my first tourny was doc 5 and i loved it i know none of u know me and im not an influence in the scene but i think it would be a shame to drop mk it seemed to me the numbers were there (apart from a few who entered all of the tournies ) and as soon as my money situation picks up a bit id gladly attend any mk related event
heres hopin

UberPrinny_Baal · 29-11-2011 11:48am

I don't even really like/understand Mortal Kombat, but I still think as an emerging scene it should get preference over 3S.

Unless we can fix the 3S final to be me versus Cobelcog on the sunset stage :pac:

DoC Fallout

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