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26-09-2011, 17:36   #1
Stove Fan
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Refused job seekers allowance.

Hi

I moved here with my Grandparents 18 months ago and am originally from the UK (born there) and live with my Grandparents bought house here in Ireland. I have spent this time renovating my grandparents house for free and they have been supporting me. I have never worked here.

I have applied for JSA and filled in all forms and have had a home visit and as I had not heard anything I gave the social protection office a ring to see how my claim is going.

The lady went off to check and came back and said it is bad news as it's not a favorable decision.

She stated that I didn't give proof of income and that I didn't prove residency.

In my application I filled in my PPS number. I thought this was proof of residency?

I enclosed a copy of my bank statement which shows only 100 euro in it. How else can I prove residency and income?
My grandparents had also written a letter stating I live with them and that I didnt receive any money from renovating there house.

I plan to appeal as my Grandparents plan to sell up and move back to the UK.

I would like to stay in Ireland but if I can't get any money I will have to move back with them. Otherwise I would starve!!

Thanks. Stove Fan
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26-09-2011, 17:40   #2
JustAddWater
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Originally Posted by Stove Fan View Post
I have never worked here.
I think that answers your question.

You have to have previous tax paid in order to claim JSA as it's for people who are unemployed, not never been employed

I dont know specifics but you have to have paid x amount of tax first before JSA is awarded
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26-09-2011, 17:47   #3
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Originally Posted by JustAddWater View Post
I think that answers your question.

You have to have previous tax paid in order to claim JSA as it's for people who are unemployed, not never been employed

I dont know specifics but you have to have paid x amount of tax first before JSA is awarded
No so - you need to have paid a certain amount of prsi contributions to get job seekers benefit - not allowance.

Fromhttp://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/unemployed_people/jobseekers_allowance.html
If you are aged 18 or over and unemployed, you may be paid either Jobseeker's Allowance (JA) or Jobseeker's Benefit (JB). Both payments are paid by the Department of Social Protection (DSP). Jobseeker's Allowance used to be called Unemployment Assistance; the name of the payment changed in October 2006.

You may get Jobseeker's Allowance if you don't qualify for Jobseeker's Benefit or if you have used up your entitlement to Jobseeker's Benefit. In some cases, if you are only entitled to a reduced rate of Jobseeker's Benefit you may be better off on Jobseeker's Allowance. However, Jobseeker's Allowance is means-tested and your means must be below a certain level to qualify.

You must be unemployed to get Jobseeker’s Allowance.

To get Jobseeker's Allowance you must:

Be unemployed
Be over 18 and under 66 years of age
Be capable of work
Be available for and genuinely seeking work
Satisfy the means test
Meet the Habitual Residence Condition.

I imagine they are denying it under the Habitual Residence Condition - info available here: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...n_ireland.html
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26-09-2011, 17:52   #4
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your cwo will pay you until this matter is resolved, you can get a form that your grandparents can sign to say you reside there and write dates etc. on it
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26-09-2011, 18:23   #5
eastbono
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Originally Posted by darokane View Post
your cwo will pay you until this matter is resolved, you can get a form that your grandparents can sign to say you reside there and write dates etc. on it
Supplementary welfare allowance is also subject to a person being deemed habitually resident. Community welfare officers conduct their own habitual residence for supplementary welfare allowance.
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26-09-2011, 18:31   #6
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Originally Posted by eastbono View Post
Supplementary welfare allowance is also subject to a person being deemed habitually resident. Community welfare officers conduct their own habitual residence for supplementary welfare allowance.
yeah i answered that above too
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26-09-2011, 18:32   #7
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yeah i answered that above too
Define what 'habitual residence' means
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26-09-2011, 18:38   #8
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it's where a person has lived here(or Great Britain) on a permanent basis for a certain period of uninterrupted time
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26-09-2011, 18:40   #9
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You are likely to satisfy the Habitual Residence Condition if you:

* have spent all of your life in the Common Travel Area, or
* have lived in the Common Travel Area for the last 2 years or more, have worked in the Common Travel Area and now live in the Republic of Ireland, or
* have lived in other parts of the Common Travel Area for 2 years or more and then move to the Republic of Ireland and intend to make it your permanent home.


A bank or credit card statement would constitute evidence of habitual residence, Also like i said if you ask they will provide a form for the OP's grandparents to fill out
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26-09-2011, 19:15   #10
Balagan
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You have, of course, a right to reside here but proving habitual residency in order to receive social assistance payments is quite some undertaking.
It can be very difficult to prove that Ireland is your 'centre of interest' and proving that is a major factor in proving habitual residency. Things you need to do to prove habitual residency in order to claim social assistance payments are
show evidence you have been looking for work
show evidence that you have joined clubs, library, organizations etc., and where possible get letters of reference
show that you have signed up for a GP
provide names of family/friends who can be approached to vouch for you
provide evidence that you have severed links with the UK., i.e., any property sold, left rented property, that you have cancelled any benefit assistance payments in the UK, bank accounts closed, educational courses finished, jobs left etc.,
provide evidence of leased/bought property here.
The fact that your grandparents are returning to the UK will make it even more difficult for you.

More info here http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...n_ireland.html

Last edited by Balagan; 26-09-2011 at 19:24.
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26-09-2011, 22:44   #11
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Originally Posted by Bannasidhe View Post
No so - you need to have paid a certain amount of prsi contributions to get job seekers benefit - not allowance.

I wouldn't qualify for job seekers benefit as I have not made any contributions

Fromhttp://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/unemployed_people/jobseekers_allowance.html
If you are aged 18 or over and unemployed, you may be paid either Jobseeker's Allowance (JA) or Jobseeker's Benefit (JB). Both payments are paid by the Department of Social Protection (DSP). Jobseeker's Allowance used to be called Unemployment Assistance; the name of the payment changed in October 2006.

You may get Jobseeker's Allowance if you don't qualify for Jobseeker's Benefit or if you have used up your entitlement to Jobseeker's Benefit. In some cases, if you are only entitled to a reduced rate of Jobseeker's Benefit you may be better off on Jobseeker's Allowance. However, Jobseeker's Allowance is means-tested and your means must be below a certain level to qualify.

I have no income or savings which I declared in the application

You must be unemployed to get Jobseeker’s Allowance.

To get Jobseeker's Allowance you must:

Be unemployed
Be over 18 and under 66 years of age
Be capable of work
Be available for and genuinely seeking work
Satisfy the means test
Meet the Habitual Residence Condition.

I am 32 and capable of work and would surely satisfy a means test as I have no capital or houses.

I imagine they are denying it under the Habitual Residence Condition - info available here: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...n_ireland.html
Thanks for the link

Quote:
Originally Posted by darokane View Post
your cwo will pay you until this matter is resolved, you can get a form that your grandparents can sign to say you reside there and write dates etc. on it
Who are the cwo the Community welfare officer? If so what is the name or ref no of the form?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastbono View Post
Supplementary welfare allowance is also subject to a person being deemed habitually resident. Community welfare officers conduct their own habitual residence for supplementary welfare allowance.
No problem


Quote:
Originally Posted by darokane View Post
it's where a person has lived here(or Great Britain) on a permanent basis for a certain period of uninterrupted time
Quote:
Originally Posted by darokane View Post
You are likely to satisfy the Habitual Residence Condition if you:

* have spent all of your life in the Common Travel Area, or
* have lived in the Common Travel Area for the last 2 years or more, have worked in the Common Travel Area and now live in the Republic of Ireland, or
* have lived in other parts of the Common Travel Area for 2 years or more and then move to the Republic of Ireland and intend to make it your permanent home.

I was born in Britain and lived there most of my life and then after about 24 years moved to France with my Grandparents and renovated the house for them for no wage and then my Grandparents sold in France and then bought here. The person visited us to give us a form to fill in for the census and I filled in my part.

I filled in the form for JSA honestly and I even included a letter stating my background. My Grandparents also included a letter stating I live with them which I do and that I have no income and never had any money for the house I renovated in France or here.



A bank or credit card statement would constitute evidence of habitual residence, Also like i said if you ask they will provide a form for the OP's grandparents to fill out
Unfortunately I have never needed a bank account Here and so have only just opened one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balagan View Post
You have, of course, a right to reside here but proving habitual residency in order to receive social assistance payments is quite some undertaking.
It can be very difficult to prove that Ireland is your 'centre of interest' and proving that is a major factor in proving habitual residency. Things you need to do to prove habitual residency in order to claim social assistance payments are
show evidence you have been looking for work
show evidence that you have joined clubs, library, organizations etc., and where possible get letters of reference
show that you have signed up for a GP
provide names of family/friends who can be approached to vouch for you
provide evidence that you have severed links with the UK., i.e., any property sold, left rented property, that you have cancelled any benefit assistance payments in the UK, bank accounts closed, educational courses finished, jobs left etc.,
provide evidence of leased/bought property here.
The fact that your grandparents are returning to the UK will make it even more difficult for you.

I have never claimed benefits. My Grandparents kept me for the labour I did renovating. I had cancelled my French bank account and severed every tie in the UK or France. The only tie I had was my French account.

My Grandparents vouched for me as they are the ones who brought me up from the age of 10. My Mother wasn't great and my father has Died.

I have no disabilities and would work if I can find a Job. I am a trained plumber. I am not on any training course. The house I live in is owned by my Grandparents.

More info here http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...n_ireland.html

Thanks everyone who has given advice and I really appreciate it I want to stay in Ireland and find a job with an employer in the plumbing industry and eventually when things improve start my own plumbing buisiness.

Last edited by Stove Fan; 26-09-2011 at 22:48.
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26-09-2011, 22:51   #12
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Originally Posted by Stove Fan View Post



Who are the cwo the Community welfare officer? If so what is the name or ref no of the form?


http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...are_allow.html

All info is there, You will have to go down to your local health centre and talk to a cwo officer personally
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05-01-2012, 17:25   #13
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Hi

I applied for JSA at the end of August and I am still waiting to get my JSA approved after being refused. I had the letter of aknowledgement letter of receipt of my appeal on the 25th of October and am still waiting I have been going in to the welfare office to sign the last two months. I have kept phoning them at Dublin but it has only reached the deciding officer on the 10th of December for a decision. I phoned today again and still no news so they said someone would phone which they did and said the process will either go to an oral hearing or decided, but allow another 2 months I was just staggered at the system and said what do I live on? He said that you would have to go to your social welfare office or local welfare officer and it's up to them at their discretion I said I expected the process to take 2-3 weeks as you could starve waiting He said unfortunately it can take a long time as they have 25,000 appeals to go through each year.

What would you do?

Is this normal

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Last edited by Stove Fan; 05-01-2012 at 18:06.
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05-01-2012, 18:17   #14
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As far as I know if your waiting for your claim to be granted the community welfare officer will pay you while your waiting. Thats the way it worked for me but I wasnt appealing a case
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20-01-2012, 15:28   #15
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Well a bit more news.

I telephoned Dublin yesterday and after waiting 15 minutes I got hold of someone and asked how my claim was going.

The person said a decision on my appeal had been decided so asked what the result was only to be told that they can't tell me under the data protection act and I would have to wait for the letter to arrive.

I asked when it was posted, but it hasn't yet. So a waiting game. I phoned my local office and they hadn't heard anything either from them

Has anyone else experienced this? Or do they not tell you anyway over the phone?

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