Obtuse

take everything · 30-10-2010 3:16pm #1

OK it's the opposite of acute.
It refers to dullness (of perception etc).
Therefore it's synonymous with "stupid".

But it's one of those words that i'm not 100% on its usage.
I always suspected it's best used to describe someone who is being deliberately thick in an argument (someone who willfully refuses to perceive your point for self-serving reasons rather than downright stupidity).

Eg i always thought "obtuse" would bea good way to describe Bertie in an argument- willfully obfuscating and dodging the real issues at every measure- because it suits him.

Or can obtuse mean just stupid.

It's a word that you don't hear that often so just wondering about its exact usage.

gbee · 30-10-2010 3:30pm

1. unfeeling, tactless, insensitive; blind, imperceptive, unobservant; gauche, boorish; slow, dim.

However, the slow and dim aspects are not in common usage. It does mean Bertie Speak perfectly.

It's also like being asked to get blood form a stone by a very happy boss and you returning to say you cannot but your explanations are simply not listened to and the request from you boss is simply repeated.

In this analogy, the person could be perceived as being a bit dim as they simply don't listen when you explain that you cannot get the blood from the stone. But in reality they are being obtuse as THEY are the boss and if THEY ask for something then it cannot be impossible.

take everything · 30-10-2010 3:42pm

gbee wrote: »

1. unfeeling, tactless, insensitive; blind, imperceptive, unobservant; gauche, boorish; slow, dim.

However, the slow and dim aspects are not in common usage. It does mean Bertie Speak perfectly.

It's also like being asked to get blood form a stone by a very happy boss and you returning to say you cannot but your explanations are simply not listened to and the request from you boss is simply repeated.

In this analogy, the person could be perceived as being a bit dim as they simply don't listen when you explain that you cannot get the blood from the stone. But in reality they are being obtuse as THEY are the boss and if THEY ask for something then it cannot be impossible.

Yes the boss thing sums up (what has been) my understanding of it perfectly.
So i guess:
Obtuse = Stupid (and i don't give a ****/i'm not gonna try to understand).
To me that makes it quite an interesting word. Essentially it's a potentially powerful/successful form of stupid.
And for a word that you don't hear that much, the concept it describes is everywhere.
That (its underuse) makes it even more interesting to me.
I mean when you think of it what other word better describes the Boss thing above.

Thanks.
I suppose i posted to see if i was missing out on other interpretations.

Edit: don't think "underusage" is a word ^

Changed to "underuse".

FlutterinBantam · 31-10-2010 2:13pm

take everything wrote: »

OK it's the opposite of acute.
It refers to dullness (of perception etc).
Therefore it's synonymous with "stupid".

But it's one of those words that i'm not 100% on its usage.
I always suspected it's best used to describe someone who is being deliberately thick in an argument (someone who willfully refuses to perceive your point for self-serving reasons rather than downright stupidity).

Eg i always thought "obtuse" would bea good way to describe Bertie in an argument- willfully obfuscating and dodging the real issues at every measure- because it suits him.

Or can obtuse mean just stupid.

It's a word that you don't hear that often so just wondering about its exact usage.

I would suspect that the etymology quite aptly describes the word.

I would not opine that obtuse just means stupid, but rather would associate the word with someone who wishes to dull the issue and avoid the acute facts and blunt the perception of the receiver of the information being disseminated.

The acceptance of that stance then assumes that the promulgator of the information has a certain degree of cunning and has the skill to say a lot of things,none of which can be pinned down to any acute facts,but blunted enough to be malleable and to be reshaped in a different way in the future, if the necessity arises.

Eamonn Gilmore would be a good example:cool:

looksee · 31-10-2010 2:53pm

I understood obtuse to mean 'wilfully dense' or not making a serious effort to understand. Unfortunately the person I accused of being obtuse used the 'stupid' definition, and took serious offense. A word to be a bit careful with!

The Raven. · 31-10-2010 7:22pm

Obtuse: stupid, slow of perception – Oxford
Obtuse: stupid - Chambers
Obtuse: mentally slow – Collins

No mention of any wilfulness.

Some people confuse it with ‘abstruse’, which has a different meaning altogether. They use the term ‘obtuse’ when they mean ‘abstruse’.

Abstruse: hard to understand, profound – Oxford
Abstruse: hidden, remote from apprehension, difficult to be understood.
Abstruse: not easy to understand

take everything · 31-10-2010 7:46pm

The Raven. wrote: »

Obtuse: stupid, slow of perception – Oxford
Obtuse: stupid - Chambers
Obtuse: mentally slow – Collins

No mention of any wilfulness.

Some people confuse it with ‘abstruse’, which has a different meaning altogether. They use the term ‘obtuse’ when they mean ‘abstruse’.

Abstruse: hard to understand, profound – Oxford
Abstruse: hidden, remote from apprehension, difficult to be understood.
Abstruse: not easy to understand

Interestingly i did see a thread on another site discussing "abstruse vs obtuse".
TBH i would have never had a problem distinguishing the meaning of abstruse and obtuse.
Abstruse referring to the thing that is perceived.
Obtuse referring to the perceiver.

My thing was essentially, as you say, does obtuse have to have a wilful component.
Those dictionary definitions, as you say, never seem to stress this aspect which is curious.
Because i don't think it means plain stupid;
I've never heard the insult "obtuse cow" for example.

pickarooney · 01-11-2010 3:30pm

I wonder how many people think of Andy Dufresne's line in The Shawshank Redemption when they hear the word.

Andy Dufresne: How can you be so obtuse?
Warden Samuel Norton: What? What did you call me?
Andy Dufresne: Obtuse. Is it deliberate?
Warden Samuel Norton: Son, you're forgetting yourself.

take everything · 01-11-2010 4:36pm

pickarooney wrote: »

I wonder how many people think of Andy Dufresne's line in The Shawshank Redemption when they hear the word.

If i remember correctly, that's where the warden has the opportunity to help Robbins' character prove his innocence but does nothing, isn't it.

That's a good example of why the word is so interesting IMO.
It lies somewhere between the realms of intellect and caring.
It's not fully "too stupid to understand" (intellect)
and it's not fully "i couldn't care less" (emotion).

The word seems to be interpretable as "i don't know AND/ OR i don't care".

Obtuse

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