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Is Religion compulsory at LC

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  • 07-09-2010 3:59pm
    #1
    Smartly Dressed
    Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭


    During 5th year, I spent Religion class in the study hall and I got A LOT of work done in that 70 minutes. This year, I was told that I could no longer continue doing this as religion is the only compulsory subject on the LC course and therefore I have to take it.

    I'm beyond annoyed and was just wondering if anyone could confirm if religion is compulsory?


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    #2
    Busi_Girl08
    Registered Users Posts: 17,831 ✭✭✭✭Busi_Girl08


    It depends on the school, I suppose, but I think it is optional.

    When they say "compulsory subject" do they mean coursework, and sitting the paper in June, or the Religion I had, which was basically spending the class having discussions about different issues, eg. abortion, drugs, different religions, etc?

    At the end of the day though, neither should be "compulsory". If it bothers you so much (I'm not not trying to be rude here, I would be pissed off too), then maybe get your parents to talk to the school or whatever?


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    #3
    JamesJB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 143 ✭✭JamesJB


    Busi_Girl08 wrote: »

    At the end of the day though, neither should be "compulsory". If it bothers you so much (I'm not not trying to be rude here, I would be pissed off too), then maybe get your parents to talk to the school or whatever?

    In my school they just didn't let you away with it unless you were clear about not doing it from first year. I thought it was a waste of time during senior cycle. Junior cycle might have taught people something about other religions (something Atheists can even appreciate as important to eliminate misconceptions).

    However I found that religion as a non-exam subject had too many unsubtle Catholic undertones. Our teacher openly stated that her job was to convert us. When debating abortion, she called it 'murder' (not getting into that debate, however) and on numerous occasions I recall feeling as though an agenda was being pushed. Add to that the fact that a priest is on the board of directors, and we end our school year with a proper(ly crowbarred in) mass and it's clear that 'compulsory' religion was in part an attempt to push a certain viewpoint on people.

    tl;dr religion shouldn't be compulsory in order to give more time for people to study. However, at least for me, that was never the case since there was an agenda at work the whole time.


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    #4
    Smartly Dressed
    Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭Smartly Dressed


    Busi_Girl08 wrote: »
    It depends on the school, I suppose, but I think it is optional.

    When they say "compulsory subject" do they mean coursework, and sitting the paper in June, or the Religion I had, which was basically spending the class having discussions about different issues, eg. abortion, drugs, different religions, etc?

    Our school has never had an exam in June. Our religion classes are usually poorly organized and we'll have some discussions here and there.

    At the end of the day though, neither should be "compulsory". If it bothers you so much (I'm not not trying to be rude here, I would be pissed off too), then maybe get your parents to talk to the school or whatever?
    Yes, I'm almost certainly going to get my parents to intervene if I find out whether or not it's compulsory.

    JamesJB wrote:
    However I found that religion as a non-exam subject had too many unsubtle Catholic undertones. Our teacher openly stated that her job was to convert us. When debating abortion, she called it 'murder' (not getting into that debate, however) and on numerous occasions I recall feeling as though an agenda was being pushed. Add to that the fact that a priest is on the board of directors, and we end our school year with a proper(ly crowbarred in) mass and it's clear that 'compulsory' religion was in part an attempt to push a certain viewpoint on people.

    This is the problem for me. It's not educational at all and is just some teachers forcing their own opinions on us - at least it always has been in my experience. I've learned more about religion in the 'Religion and Spirituality' forum on boards in the last year than I have at school since I started my education 13 years ago.


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    #5
    Chuchoter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Chuchoter


    No its not compulsory like maths is, and your school really has no right to be taking 70 minutes out of your leaving cert year to spend on a subject not conducive to your results. I assume you're 18 now, just say no and go to the library. Say you would entirely see the benefit of an SPHE class once a week for 40 minutes covering important issues for a group of people about to go out into the world by themselves, but a religious influence is not something you see as beneficial to you.

    I'm in 5th year and we have a compulsory religion class three times a week (because hey we don't need an extra English or Maths class or anything) and it is such a waste of time being preached at for 2 hours a week under the guise of 'learning about our selves'.


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    #6
    JamesJB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 143 ✭✭JamesJB


    Smartly Dressed wrote: »
    I've learned more about religion in the 'Religion and Spirituality' forum on boards in the last year than I have at school since I started my education 13 years ago.

    Bingo. Internet is where it's at for multiple perspectives. Even though it's rife with inaccuracies and subjectivity, if you get enough sources and read enough about something you can formulate a more educated opinion without any input from an agenda-pushing teacher in a classroom environment.

    I hope you can get exempt somehow; school would've been nicer for me if Religion and PE had been optional.


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    #7
    Grace16
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Grace16


    No i don't think that it's compulsory. In my school we weren't given a choice we just weren't allowed to do it. We still had religion class 3 times a week and had exams at Christmas and Summer but nobody in my year did it for their leaving cert. Personally I would've liked to do it but we just had no choice.


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    #8
    Busi_Girl08
    Registered Users Posts: 17,831 ✭✭✭✭Busi_Girl08


    I agree about PE (oh god how I agree o_o), but I guess I was lucky with my LC religion class, or at least with the teacher. We had a lot of interesting discussions about stuff like abortion, drugs, family, and then watched movies or whatever relevant to the issue, (Adam and Paul for drugs, Shawshank Redemption, for some reason :P)
    It was just a break for me, no religious agenda that I could see anyway. I don't know how the other class with the former nun got on though :pac:

    But that being said, it should be a choice, especially in 6th year. If a student would rather spend their PE period studying, or religion/SPHE, etc then let them!

    The amount of unnecessary stress students go through that year is just ridiculous, and it needs to be changed. :mad:


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    #9
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Smartly Dressed wrote: »
    During 5th year, I spent Religion class in the study hall and I got A LOT of work done in that 70 minutes. This year, I was told that I could no longer continue doing this as religion is the only compulsory subject on the LC course and therefore I have to take it.

    I'm beyond annoyed and was just wondering if anyone could confirm if religion is compulsory?

    Have no idea if it's compulsory or not. Don't go in all guns blazing, that's generally not the way to deal with a school principal. If you want to opt out on faith (or lack of ) grounds it shouldn't be an issue. However opting out because you want to study might be different. Maybe your parents can talk to the school.

    The angle the school might be coming from is that you can't be left unsupervised without a teacher and they have to put you in a class.


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    #10
    JamesJB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 143 ✭✭JamesJB


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    If you want to opt out on faith (or lack of ) grounds it shouldn't be an issue.

    The angle the school might be coming from is that you can't be left unsupervised without a teacher and they have to put you in a class.

    Ooh, I wouldn't be so sure. If you do religion for the JC, where you study so many other religions, they might not let you use that excuse for the LC. If it wasn't an issue then, why should it be now? That was how it was in my school. Once I hit the age of reason I was basically an Atheist, but due to the fear I had from childhood (instilled by teachers and by any religious presence in my life) I denied it. I still think that some exposure to different faiths at JC level is beneficial to some slight degree.

    And yes, they could nail you with the 'unsupervised' angle. However that wouldn't be a reason for you to simply not participate in class and just do homework while they waste their time.


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    #11
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,143 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    OP, are you attending a Catholic school?


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    #12
    ldxo15wus6fpgm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭ldxo15wus6fpgm


    Read this thread, tbh.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055995748


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    #13
    Smartly Dressed
    Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭Smartly Dressed


    spurious wrote: »
    OP, are you attending a Catholic school?

    I'm not entirely sure. It's a community school and people of various religions attend so I would assume it's not.


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    #14
    Chuchoter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Chuchoter


    Smartly Dressed wrote: »
    I'm not entirely sure. It's a community school and people of various religions attend so I would assume it's not.
    Is it attached to any kind of convent or monastry/ called st something of something?

    If its called any kind of community college they are in the wrong completely


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    #15
    Smartly Dressed
    Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭Smartly Dressed


    crayolastereo wrote: »
    Is it attached to any kind of convent or monastry/ called st something of something?

    If its called any kind of community college they are in the wrong completely

    It's not attached to a convent or monastry.

    Although, the chaplain is a Catholic priest, the school population is probably around 97-98% Catholic and we have a Catholic mass at the start of the year. We also have a cross as our school emblem. Whether or not the school is officially Catholic I'm not sure but it probably is.


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    #16
    ldxo15wus6fpgm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭ldxo15wus6fpgm


    The religious denomination the school is affiliated with makes no difference.
    The only things that can oblige you to attend a religion class is a document signed by you/your parents (usually upon starting at the school) saying you will attend the classes, being in a private school or being over 18.

    If you did not sign an agreement when you enrolled in the school that says you have to attend religion class (very common in christian schools), you are under 18 and your school receives public funding of any sort, they cannot force you to go to the class, simple as.


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    #17
    JamesJB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 143 ✭✭JamesJB


    Smartly Dressed wrote: »
    It's not attached to a convent or monastry.

    Although, the chaplain is a Catholic priest, the school population is probably around 97-98% Catholic and we have a Catholic mass at the start of the year. We also have a cross as our school emblem. Whether or not the school is officially Catholic I'm not sure but it probably is.

    This pretty much describes my old school, apart from the 97-98% Catholic bit. I reckon there was a slightly larger percentage of people from different faiths. I myself would have been on file as a Catholic even though I wasn't...

    Anyway, even if it's a community school they will push religion. That's how it was for me and how it will be until people realise that religion belongs in your personal life. I'm all for studying other religions to eliminate prejudice and get rid of misconceptions, but you could do that in primary school and you could do it for the JC if that wasn't enough. By LC level, it should be optional and available, but not mandatory.

    As an aside (I feel very passionate about this) I pretty much distrust the church for the way it perpetuates its agenda. In my primary school, the church was on the school grounds. I remember one day a priest came in for something like 40 minutes to speak to us (I think in like 5th class). They aren't really getting away with the fire and brimstone lecture any more, so instead we sat through a talk on being good Catholics. It was still terrifying and I remember being very worried about what would happen if I failed. When I made my confirmation, I had to do a reading. I was worried that if I messed up I'd go to hell.

    They like that fear, to be quite honest. They insist on planting their message in kids' heads when they're too young to know better. If they have people believing by the time they get to secondary school, it's almost mission accomplished. All that's left is to push the more 'adult' agenda on more mature minds, and ultimately produce so-called 'well rounded' individuals who understand math, speak some french, and are pro-life-anti-contraception-anti-sex-before-marriage.

    Sure, it doesn't really work. People do what they want, don't go to mass etc. But they still try, and I'll bet that some people really do come out with their views as a result. Religion should be optional so that people can choose whether or not they want to be manipulated. And hey, they should also be allowed to get some work done instead :cool:


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    #18
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,143 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Smartly Dressed wrote: »
    I'm not entirely sure. It's a community school and people of various religions attend so I would assume it's not.

    If it's under a VEC, there has to be provision for 2 hours of religious education (in whatever faith) per week according to the Vocational Education Act of 1930.

    It and Irish are the only subjects required by law.

    Whether you attend of course, is up to you, I would imagine.


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    #19
    Smartly Dressed
    Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭Smartly Dressed


    spurious wrote: »
    If it's under a VEC, there has to be provision for 2 hours of religious education (in whatever faith) per week according to the Vocational Education Act of 1930.

    It and Irish are the only subjects required by law.

    Whether you attend of course, is up to you, I would imagine.

    Our school is not under the VEC.

    Even if it was, surely our school would be disregarding the law by not teaching 2 hours of religious education: they only teach 70 minutes per week. Although that's getting away from the subject at hand.


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