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Suicide by car crash

  • 03-08-2009 9:27pm
    #1
    ninty9er
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭


    Apologies if this came up last week, but I've only noticed the article now from last week's Tribune.

    It seems that there's a suicidologist out there that reckons a significant number of single vehicle accidents are in fact suicide.

    Determining this however would
    A) be very painful for families
    B) be almost impossible to prove

    On the other hand it shows that there is a significant problem that isn't skill related that poses a threat to other road users who happen to get in the way.

    I don't exactly know where this could be going...but I suppose I'm looking to see what people think on the issue? And how it can be combatted, as like most similar issues, it will never be completely resolved.


Comments

  • #2
    Micilin Muc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭Micilin Muc


    I heard that theory years ago, from a nurse. Is very hard to prove.


  • #3
    Captain Slow IRL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,651 ✭✭✭Captain Slow IRL


    There was a local girl who commited suicide this way a few years ago, but she left a note behind explaining what she was doing. If someone does it without explaining why, no-one will ever know.

    The media seems to not broadcast suicides (however they're achieved) for some strange reason, maybe this is why it's not so well known.


  • #4
    Mr Benevolent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,456 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    Generally suicide victims don't leave a note either. It would explain a few of the single vehicle country lane fatalities.


  • #5
    The Big Red Button
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,390 ✭✭✭The Big Red Button


    I can't imagine what would be going through someone's head to do it that way (well, to do it at all!) - but apart from the obvious risk of accidentally killing/injuring someone else, there's a high chance that you could end up not dead but badly injured or paralysed.


  • #6
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    I've no doubt it happens.
    Certainly some single vehicle accidents are this but it's pretty much impossible to prove.


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  • #7
    ottostreet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭ottostreet


    yeah but the thing is...how can ya be sure the crash will kill ya? drive into a wall at 90...there is still a very very small chance youll survive!


  • #8
    Mr Benevolent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,456 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    Suicides are generally not premeditated, especially not this kind. The person wouldn't consider the possibility of surviving. It certainly wouldn't kill instantly, that's for sure :(


  • #9
    The Black Oil
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,513 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    Captain Slow IRL wrote: »
    There was a local girl who commited suicide this way a few years ago, but she left a note behind explaining what she was doing. If someone does it without explaining why, no-one will ever know.

    The media seems to not broadcast suicides (however they're achieved) for some strange reason, maybe this is why it's not so well known.

    There are guidelines when it comes to media broadcasting of suicides, not wanting to encourage copycats, etc. Sample on this link www.hse.ie/.../Media_Guidelines_for_the_Portrayal_of_Suicide_2.pdf

    Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.

    CMod: Entertainment



  • #10
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,719 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    ninty9er wrote: »
    B) be almost impossible to prove

    Which might seem like a "clean" solution to the person contemplating suicide. An fatal accident is terrible, but nowhere near as bad as a suicide for the people left behind to cope with and live with.

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  • #11
    ninty9er
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    unkel wrote: »
    Which might seem like a "clean" solution to the person contemplating suicide. An fatal accident is terrible, but nowhere near as bad as a suicide for the people left behind to cope with and live with.

    I think that's the logic behind using a car crash as a suicide method...it's presumed it lessens the suffering of those left behind I suppose.


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  • #12
    fenris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭fenris


    Doesn't an overt suicide prevent any life insurance payout?

    Also the fatal accident age/demographic profile seems to be very similar to that of the highest risk group for suicide.


  • #13
    cyclopath2001
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    ninty9er wrote: »
    It seems that there's a suicidologist out there that reckons a significant number of single vehicle accidents are in fact suicide.
    Happened some years ago to the young brother of a schoolfriend whose GF dumped him

    Suicide is a complicated subject.

    From my understanding of what can happen, it's sometimes an extended "road rage/red-haze/anger venting/russian roulette" thing than ends up with the car wrapped round a wall.


  • #14
    johndaman66
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,097 ✭✭✭johndaman66


    My own sentiments are that it happens a lot more than people would imagine. As another poster suggested that it will sometimes be the case that the crash is not fatal but that the driver is left paralysed or with brain injuries...These accidents are probably frequent enough too only they are the ones you don't necessairly hear about in the news.

    Suppose to anybody contemplating taking their own life it is another way and they aren't necessairly thinking logically at the time in any event. Apologies if my chocie in words are incorrect in any of the above.


  • #15
    Max_Damage
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,461 ✭✭✭Max_Damage


    Well, unless their was a suicide note left, I can see how it would be hard to prove.

    90 MPH+ impact into an Armco barrier with no seatbelt on and airbags disabled would probably finish someone off fairly handy.


  • #16
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,719 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Max_Damage wrote: »
    90 MPH+ impact into an Armco barrier with no seatbelt on and airbags disabled would probably finish someone off fairly handy.


    Nah. Armcos are life savers. They'll just bounce you back. Any tree or pole will do though...

    My ads on adverts.ie

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  • #17
    yop
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 16,724 Mod ✭✭✭✭yop


    Was just speaking to someone involved in a body to help people who have experience suicide and to raise awareness since suicide is responsible for more deaths than car crashes but its still taboo.
    But he said that they seem think that suicide in single car crashes could be in big numbers.

    From a personal point of view having experienced 3 close suicides, the car crash route really would have less impact than any other form of suicide. The loss of a young person is VERY hard to accept, for the person to die from suicide is even harder as you feel a lot of responsibility.


  • #18
    Max_Damage
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,461 ✭✭✭Max_Damage


    unkel wrote: »
    Nah. Armcos are life savers. They'll just bounce you back. Any tree or pole will do though...

    I was thinking of hitting the point of which they start.

    I.e.:
    Product_128699184861031250.jpg

    Those concrete barriers would also suffice.


  • #19
    DonJose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭DonJose


    yop wrote: »
    From a personal point of view having experienced 3 close suicides, the car crash route really would have less impact than any other form of suicide. The loss of a young person is VERY hard to accept, for the person to die from suicide is even harder as you feel a lot of responsibility.

    Theres also life insurance policies to be taken into account, insurance companies dont pay out when death is by suicide, its almost impossible to link a car crash to an act of suicide.


  • #20
    Shield
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 9,810 CMod ✭✭✭✭Shield


    I remember posting last year about this subject. These memories will never leave me.

    On topic, things don't always end up as the person wants. Things can go wrong. I want to be discreet so I won't name places, but there is a man paralyzed from the neck down in a nursing home in Dublin, because a suicide attempt in his car went horribly wrong.

    There are worse things than death.


  • #21
    cancelled
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭cancelled


    psni wrote: »
    I remember posting last year about this subject. These memories will never leave me.

    On topic, things don't always end up as the person wants. Things can go wrong. I want to be discreet so I won't name places, but there is a man paralyzed from the neck down in a nursing home in Dublin, because a suicide attempt in his car went horribly wrong.

    There are worse things than death.

    I have just registered to reply to this thread.

    I was involved in a serious car crash a number of years ago. It turns out the other driver was actually trying to kill the passenger in their vehicle, a famlily member. Instead they both walked away with no injuries and I have been left in a terrible state.

    I had to give up a well paid job that I loved and was very good at.

    I haven't been able to contribute financially to my household, we've been in negotiations with the building society so we don't lose our home. The payment protection only covered 12 months of mortgage payments. I'm now out of work over 3 years. It's looking very likely that we will lose our home, everything we've worked for over the years.

    There is a court case pending (re the damages/injuries etc) but I haven't even gotten a date for that as of today.

    To be honest with you my OH would be better off if I had been killed in the crash. The payment protection would have kicked in and cleared the mortgage, my life insurance would have been paid, my death in service benefit from my job would have been paid.....the list goes on.

    There have been many days when I have considered getting behind the wheel of a car and driving it into a wall or off a pier or into a central barrier on a motorway.....but I haven't. Only because I don't want to risk injuring someone else and having them end up in the situation I'm in now. My collision was at over 100km/h....lots of barriers etc involved, and I'm still here to tell the tale.

    I'm certain that a large percentage of single vehicle accidents must be suicide. It's such a sad and desperate outcome isn't it?

    It happens people, it's happening right now as you are reading this.

    Take five minutes out of your day to really listen to your friends and family. What are they going through? Are they really doing ok? Do they just need a shoulder to cry on? Pay attention, it could save a life.


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  • #22
    Shield
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 9,810 CMod ✭✭✭✭Shield


    Your story is one of many cancelled. I'm genuinely sorry to hear about your plight. I hope things work out as best as they can when you get your settlement.


  • #23
    cancelled
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭cancelled


    psni wrote: »
    Your story is one of many cancelled. I'm genuinely sorry to hear about your plight. I hope things work out as best as they can when you get your settlement.

    Unfortunately yes my story is one of many. It's a crazy, twisted world we live in.

    Any settlement won't be worth the paper it's written on though if my home has already been repossessed. Sad but true.

    My family have no idea what's been going through my mind and that is the scary thing about this situation. I've been so convincing up to now.

    We really need to stand up and take notice of the people around us. We're all going through tough times at the moment, that can't be denied, but we need to look out for each other.

    I suppose that's all I'm trying to get across, you never know what someone else is going through, so keep your eyes and ears open. You never know, it might save someone.


  • #24
    seanybiker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,898 ✭✭✭✭seanybiker


    Fella I knew done it this way a few years back.


  • #25
    Shield
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 9,810 CMod ✭✭✭✭Shield


    I hear you, I really do.

    There's nothing I can say on an internet forum that will make any difference to your situation.

    I have a saying I stole from someone in work: If you're going through hell, keep going. You'll come out the other side.

    Losing your home is a big thing and I won't attempt to play it down, but I assume your legal team will be adding this to the special damages you have applied for in the settlement?
    cancelled wrote: »
    Unfortunately yes my story is one of many. It's a crazy, twisted world we live in.

    Any settlement won't be worth the paper it's written on though if my home has already been repossessed. Sad but true.

    My family have no idea what's been going through my mind and that is the scary thing about this situation. I've been so convincing up to now.

    We really need to stand up and take notice of the people around us. We're all going through tough times at the moment, that can't be denied, but we need to look out for each other.

    I suppose that's all I'm trying to get across, you never know what someone else is going through, so keep your eyes and ears open. You never know, it might save someone.


  • #26
    ninty9er
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    DonJose wrote: »
    Theres also life insurance policies to be taken into account, insurance companies dont pay out when death is by suicide, its almost impossible to link a car crash to an act of suicide.
    Given the demographic that will be mainly affected by this rarely have life assurance, I don't see it as being much of an issue. People dying and road safety are the issues.
    cancelled wrote: »
    I have just registered to reply to this thread.

    I was involved in a serious car crash a number of years ago. It turns out the other driver was actually trying to kill the passenger in their vehicle, a famlily member. Instead they both walked away with no injuries and I have been left in a terrible state.

    I had to give up a well paid job that I loved and was very good at.

    I haven't been able to contribute financially to my household, we've been in negotiations with the building society so we don't lose our home. The payment protection only covered 12 months of mortgage payments. I'm now out of work over 3 years. It's looking very likely that we will lose our home, everything we've worked for over the years.

    There is a court case pending (re the damages/injuries etc) but I haven't even gotten a date for that as of today.

    To be honest with you my OH would be better off if I had been killed in the crash. The payment protection would have kicked in and cleared the mortgage, my life insurance would have been paid, my death in service benefit from my job would have been paid.....the list goes on.

    There have been many days when I have considered getting behind the wheel of a car and driving it into a wall or off a pier or into a central barrier on a motorway.....but I haven't. Only because I don't want to risk injuring someone else and having them end up in the situation I'm in now. My collision was at over 100km/h....lots of barriers etc involved, and I'm still here to tell the tale.

    I'm certain that a large percentage of single vehicle accidents must be suicide. It's such a sad and desperate outcome isn't it?

    It happens people, it's happening right now as you are reading this.

    Take five minutes out of your day to really listen to your friends and family. What are they going through? Are they really doing ok? Do they just need a shoulder to cry on? Pay attention, it could save a life.
    That story is a horrible real life consequence of how these things can turn out.

    Fair play for coming on here and posting. It's horrible to think that someone else's warped mind put you in that situation, and just as bad has probably ripped their entire family apart. So not only has this person ruined their own family, they've also made your life extremely difficult. I just hope it is resolved for you as much as it can be.


  • #27
    cancelled
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭cancelled


    psni wrote: »
    I hear you, I really do.

    There's nothing I can say on an internet forum that will make any difference to your situation.

    I have a saying I stole from someone in work: If you're going through hell, keep going. You'll come out the other side.

    Losing your home is a big thing and I won't attempt to play it down, but I assume your legal team will be adding this to the special damages you have applied for in the settlement?

    Ah I'm not looking for sympathy but it's nice when it comes along anyway! Thank you psni. It's much appreciated.

    I actually use that saying myself believe it or not. Well the worst hasn't happened yet so I'll keep thinking happy thoughts in the mean time.


  • #28
    Shield
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 9,810 CMod ✭✭✭✭Shield


    Stick around on boards. There are tons of people who will be able to give you support and advice no matter what you're going through. Learn your way around, and this place can be a very useful resource.

    I really do wish you all the best.


  • #29
    cancelled
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭cancelled


    ninty9er wrote: »
    Given the demographic that will be mainly affected by this rarely have life assurance, I don't see it as being much of an issue. People dying and road safety are the issues.


    That story is a horrible real life consequence of how these things can turn out.

    Fair play for coming on here and posting. It's horrible to think that someone else's warped mind put you in that situation, and just as bad has probably ripped their entire family apart. So not only has this person ruined their own family, they've also made your life extremely difficult. I just hope it is resolved for you as much as it can be.

    I can't get out of my mind how the other driver must have been feeling at that moment. It's terrifying.

    Honestly I can't imagine putting my family through the grief of me actually going through with it and committing suicide by that method.

    It's the thought of their pain and possibly involving some poor innocent person in the act that has stopped me up to now. Each day gets worse and worse though. Like I said previously I'm very convincing as the relatively happy person that everyone sees on a daily basis. It's tough though. If I'm going through this then I'm full sure there are thousands of others going through the same. It's scary to say the least.


  • #30
    Shield
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 9,810 CMod ✭✭✭✭Shield


    Vent here. Let it all out here. Go unregistered and post in Personal Issues or just go for it under your current user name.

    I'm getting the feeling that you want to release some of what you're feeling, and PI is the place.

    Don't hold it all in.


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  • #31
    cancelled
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭cancelled


    psni wrote: »
    Stick around on boards. There are tons of people who will be able to give you support and advice no matter what you're going through. Learn your way around, and this place can be a very useful resource.

    I really do wish you all the best.

    Can't figure out how to just thank you for you post, so anyway, thanks for your post!


  • #32
    ninty9er
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    cancelled wrote: »
    I can't get out of my mind how the other driver must have been feeling at that moment. It's terrifying.

    Honestly I can't imagine putting my family through the grief of me actually going through with it and committing suicide by that method.

    It's the thought of their pain and possibly involving some poor innocent person in the act that has stopped me up to now. Each day gets worse and worse though. Like I said previously I'm very convincing as the relatively happy person that everyone sees on a daily basis. It's tough though. If I'm going through this then I'm full sure there are thousands of others going through the same. It's scary to say the least.
    I can't even begin to think how difficult it must be to keep going, and this isn't personal issues, but it would be so much worse for your family if you weren't around.

    Dealing with long term illness/injury is fairly hard at the best of times, never mind what you have going on on top of it.

    Try the Long Term Illness Forum for some advice, they could be very helpful to you.


  • #33
    cancelled
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭cancelled


    ninty9er wrote: »
    I can't even begin to think how difficult it must be to keep going, and this isn't personal issues, but it would be so much worse for your family if you weren't around.

    Dealing with long term illness/injury is fairly hard at the best of times, never mind what you have going on on top of it.

    Try the Long Term Illness Forum for some advice, they could be very helpful to you.

    I don't want to go down the whole "personal issues" avenue tbh, I just figured maybe some of the petrol heads on here might read my story and either think twice about doing something themselves or maybe think a bit harder about people they know, and maybe pay a little bit extra attention to family and friends.

    I'm glad the OP posted on this topic though, it's relevant unfortunately.

    Well, my painkillers have kicked in so I'm off to bed. Night night everyone.


  • #34
    ninty9er
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    cancelled wrote: »
    It's the thought of their pain and possibly involving some poor innocent person in the act that has stopped me up to now.
    I know a guy who's car went out of control and one of his passengers was killed. It's very difficult to deal with, and it'll never leave him, but knowing that people are there to talk to, even if he doesn't want to take them up on it is very helpful.

    It's really difficult to know what to say to you, but like psni said, go to PI...even telling your story on Boards is probably therapeutic to you in some sense.


  • #35
    x in the city
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭x in the city


    ottostreet wrote: »
    yeah but the thing is...how can ya be sure the crash will kill ya? drive into a wall at 90...there is still a very very small chance youll survive!

    zero chance of survival tbh

    if you drove a 7 series, Phaeton, S class into a wall at 90

    you would most likely die, at the very least you would probably be paralyzed.


  • #36
    x in the city
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭x in the city


    cancelled wrote: »
    I can't get out of my mind how the other driver must have been feeling at that moment. It's terrifying.

    Honestly I can't imagine putting my family through the grief of me actually going through with it and committing suicide by that method.

    It's the thought of their pain and possibly involving some poor innocent person in the act that has stopped me up to now. Each day gets worse and worse though. Like I said previously I'm very convincing as the relatively happy person that everyone sees on a daily basis. It's tough though. If I'm going through this then I'm full sure there are thousands of others going through the same. It's scary to say the least.

    sorry to hear your plight, terribly sad

    some very good advice on boards as psni said so loads on here for advice.

    hope all ends up well


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  • #37
    AÆ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭AÆ


    I was with an old friend and coming back from a club one night he drove towards a wall and then braked......really unnerved me.....didnt think much of it afterwards until he killed himself (gun) a few months later. So yes, i do think that suicides do happen with the use of a motorvehicle.

    Cancelled....sorry to hear your story.....Keep strong.


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