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Hectorjelly · 11-11-2006 6:24pm #1

All 24nl 6handed.

Hand 1
I get ATs utg, I limp. No other limpers.

Flop is Ah Ad 8d, (flush draw). Bb bets $8, I make it $28 he calls

Turn is Kc

Check, I bet $50. He makes it $95 more

Its $95 to me, he has $200 left behind and I cover.

Villain is tight and very passive, always check calling. I have reraised him preflop a few times already, and been quite aggressive, but not overly so. There are several very weak players at the table so we have been mostly avoiding each other.

Hand 2

I make it $30 after some limpers with 8To. Only the bb calls. We have no history together, he has $700 and I cover. The flop is 79Jr (ie I have the nuts.) Check, I bet $40. He makes it $140. I call. Turn is a 3c putting a flush draw there, he bets $200. I push or call?

Hand 3

1 guy limps utg, other guy makes it 24, I call from sb with JJ as does utg.

The flop is KTT, check check check

Turn blank, Utg idiot bets 4, other guy (who is pretty tight) makes it $24. I call. Utg folds

River T, should I bet/call, bet/fold, or check call, check/fold

Pot is pretty small and we are deep.

Ste05 · 11-11-2006 7:30pm

Hmmm, some tricky situations there HJ...

Hand 1: Horrible situation, it certainly looks like either (a) he's not afraid of the Ace and thinks we have one, or (b) doesn't believe we have one because we limped UTG. I think my decision would be based on my history with the BB, I'd probably call and on the river call his push or check behind. But I wouldn't like it. Although I wouldn't be limping UTG with ATs very often

Hand 2: I'm torn over this one, I think there's alot of cards that can fall on the River killing our action if we call, and at the same time a push here will look very strong and might give him the chance to fold QQ+ or 2 pair (I don't think he's ever folding a set), so I'm wondering whether to try and get his set money in now or give him a chance to commit the rest of his stack with something weaker on a blank river...

I wouldn't be too worried about the back door flush, (except it might be a card that kills our action on the river) and he certainly looks like he's attached to his hand.

But I don't think there's really much difference as he seems very happy to play for stacks with his hand.

Hand 3: I'd either check call or check fold depending on the size of the bet, I don't think he'll call a bet with anything we beat or fold with anything that beats us. Hence I don't think a bet/fold will really accomplish anything (unless you think he'll call with 99-) and we can find out even more information (for later) with a check/call for the same price. Although, a check/fold might be even better as a fairly tight player is unlikely to bluff at this pot and that's really all we can beat.

fuzzbox · 11-11-2006 8:20pm

Hand 1 : I prefer to play a small pot when this guy bets. (aka call the flop) As played I fold.

Hand 2 : I shove, but I am trying to slowplay in situations like this more, so I also like a call. If you think he has a set, then shove !

Hand 3 : I check fold mostly, and sometimes check/call.

Goodluck2me · 11-11-2006 8:24pm

Hand 1: what are the stacks?

hand 2: i let the clock go down a bit then push, hes got 350 in there, you have the nuts. if he calls your obviously in good shape, if he passes you have made a tidy profit without letting him draw out on you easily.you dont want the board to pair on the river, and especially not let him see it for free. (also it may give credibility to future pushes, if im not mistaken you are interested in game theory?).

hand 3: 125 in the pot, i check fold. i dont know if your getting a caller from a worse hand here, nor would i expect a worse hand to bet.

NickyOD · 11-11-2006 8:39pm

Hand 1 looks like a fold. Very optomistic to think a player like this would play a weaker ace so aggressively. Of course there's a chance he's decided to just stand up to you. It's a very dificult situation to evaluate given your table image but since most players aren't really that aware of table image I suspect you'll be toast in this hand far too often.

Hand 2: Pretty much what fuzz said. If I think he's flopped a set and given the action its like then I shove. I think you lose a lot of value here by not shoving because so many cards kill your action on the river.

Hand 3: I check call there but expect to be ahead.

phantom_lord · 11-11-2006 8:59pm

Hand 1: Meh, fold,

Villain is tight and very passive, always check calling.

Hand 2: Ship it now, looks like he's protecting a set, alot of cards will kill your action on the river.

Hand 3: Check/call smallish bet.

Hitman Actual · 11-11-2006 9:00pm

Hand 1: Top trips with a weak kicker doesn't look great here against this guy. If you call I assume you're commited on the river (where you're more than likely beaten if he shows any strength at all)? If you push, what does he call you with that you're ahead of? I think it's a fold.

Hand 2: Judging by the action so far I'm not terribly worried about a club falling on the river, but I would be very worried about the board pairing. I think I push and get the money in now with the best of it (i.e. he calls now with a set), as I don't think you're getting any more money on the river unless you're behind (but then you're definately not getting anymore money!).

Hand 3: Not sure how to play this at all, and I'm very interested in the replies from the regular cash guys here.

Hectorjelly · 11-11-2006 9:04pm

I think the advice for hand 1 has been far too tight, have a look at the board. I have close to the nuts given the fact he didnt raise preflop. Hands that beat me

Ah Ad 8d,
Turn is Kc

AA
A8
AK
88
KK
AJ
AQ

He is definitely raising AA, KK, AK preflop. AQ 88, Aj some of the time. So im basically worried about A8, and this would be a strange way to play A8. There are a tonne of hands Im beating.

Also think about what hand he thinks I have. My play is consistant with a flush draw, and I limped preflop so he probably does not put me on a good ace.

NickyOD · 11-11-2006 9:13pm

Hectorjelly wrote:

I think the advice for hand 1 has been far too tight, have a look at the board. I have close to the nuts given the fact he didnt
He is definitely raising AA, KK, AK preflop. AQ 88, Aj some of the time. So im basically worried about A8, and this would be a strange way to play A8. There are a tonne of hands Im beating.

I dind't think he would raise with those hands OOP because you said he was very passive. If what you say here is true then I definitely wouldn't be going anywhere with AT.

fuzzbox · 11-11-2006 9:20pm

I would often limp AJ+ (incl AK) and 88 in his position.
I would also raise them sometimes too.

Dudes like this are not likely to show up with A9- (excl A8) here, which is more important than trying to figure out how unlikely he is to have XY where XY beats you.

Also - to all those who say "lots of river cards kill your action in hand 2" ... I say - Oh yeah ? ... which ones?

NickyOD · 11-11-2006 9:29pm

fuzzbox wrote:

Also - to all those who say "lots of river cards kill your action in hand 3" ... I say - Oh yeah ? ... which ones?

Do you mean hand 2?

fuzzbox · 11-11-2006 9:29pm

NickyOD wrote:

Do you mean hand 2?

yes

Hectorjelly · 11-11-2006 9:31pm

The games you play must suck, because if a guy in the games I play has A7 in that spot he is never folding no matter how tight he is, especially considering there is a flush draw there. Also what you do in that spot is irrelevant - you are a good/great player and he is just some random tight donkey

When he raised me my initial instinct was to fold, then I had a think about it and went all in. He folded. I asked him what he had but he stayed silent. I think just calling his bet with the intention of calling a river bet may of been better.

fuzzbox · 11-11-2006 9:43pm

The games I play sure must suck ... or else I do, cos ppl dont often go broke against me with A7 there :-).

Somehow ... .however ... they manage to select the exact moments that I am bluffing to call with their A7.

NickyOD · 11-11-2006 9:51pm

fuzzbox wrote:

yes

yeah ok you are right. My .25/.50 game is ****ing up my 2/4+ game.

cardshark202 · 11-11-2006 9:57pm

fuzzbox wrote:

Hand 1 : I prefer to play a small pot when this guy bets. (aka call the flop) As played I fold.

Hand 2 : I shove, but I am trying to slowplay in situations like this more, so I also like a call. If you think he has a set, then shove !

Hand 3 : I check fold mostly, and sometimes check/call.

These sound good

Ste05 · 11-11-2006 10:00pm

fuzzbox wrote:

Also - to all those who say "lots of river cards kill your action in hand 2" ... I say - Oh yeah ? ... which ones?

Well the board currently looks like this. 79J3 with 2 clubs.

We've raised PF, bet the flop and then called a re-raise, then we've called a turn lead. This looks very strong yet not terribly comfortable and alot like QQ+ or to a donkey maybe some sort of backdoored flush draw (e.g. AJc, QJc, KJc). As HJ says the Villain isn't Phil Ivey or Fuzzbox here, so god only knows what he's thinking, but...
When we push on the River (our first aggressive move since the flop, if he checks) and it comes:
(a) Q, K, or A, then he'll have to be worried about another set.
(b) a club, (although we'd never be there with just a flush draw this donkey doesn't know that) he might get worried.
(c) An 8 or T will make a one card straight possible,
(d) K (as well as making a credible set) also means Q10 got there.

Therefore any Club, any Q, K, A, 8 or T *might* stifle the action. Although as I said I don't think it really matters what we do because he certainly looks very attached to his hand and it stinks of a set, 2 pair or an over pair.

If he has 2 pair, pairing another card that he doesn't have will also be scary to him. [EDIT: a J will also be scary to an overpair]

With all of these cards falling we're still pushing but he *might* get worried. Obviously different cards will have various affects on him depending on what he has, but I think there are cards that might slow him down.

Goodluck2me · 11-11-2006 10:03pm

Hectorjelly wrote:

The games you play must suck, because if a guy in the games I play has A7 in that spot he is never folding no matter how tight he is, especially considering there is a flush draw there. Also what you do in that spot is irrelevant - you are a good/great player and he is just some random tight donkey

When he raised me my initial instinct was to fold, then I had a think about it and went all in. He folded. I asked him what he had but he stayed silent. I think just calling his bet with the intention of calling a river bet may of been better.

if you are in his position with AQ do you call the push?

Hectorjelly · 11-11-2006 10:20pm

goodluck2me wrote:

if you are in his position with AQ do you call the push?

I would literally be smiling as I called. I would be very very surprised to behind with AQ there

Gholimoli · 12-11-2006 8:26pm

hand one:
call as o dont see any reasons for puishing there.
if he is bluffing he will alsmost bluff the rest of it on the river but will fold to a push.
if his got the A worse than yours then we will get it all in on the river which you will call.
if he has a better A or a hous its the same as your not getting away from that hand.

Hand 2:
shove

hand 3:
check/fold

ocallagh · 12-11-2006 9:02pm

hand 1 call. It's only 2/4 and as HJ already said most players at this level will be looking to get their stack in with A7.

hand 2 I just shove. It's easier and if they have a hand they'll call a push with on the river you may as well do it now. you dont want any scare cards popping out ont he river.

hand 3 I check fold, Kx is more than likely out there.

gocall01 · 13-11-2006 1:38pm

1) Call - I believe you are ahead with your UTG limp action, he doesn't think you have the Ace with such a high kicker.
2) Push - I'm happy with taking down the pot here and if he has a set he'll call for the rest.
3) C/F most of the time but I could find myself C/C a high proportion of the time here also, my action would be bet size dependant and taking into account any previous player history.

lazlo · 13-11-2006 2:45pm

1. Calling everytime

2. Its gonna be a push.. it seems very likely that he has a set or an overpair here.

3. Check/fold

Ste05 · 13-11-2006 3:05pm

HJ your actions and thoughts, these are interesting hands...

ianmc38 · 13-11-2006 3:09pm

Havnt seen results yet.

Hand 1 Call turn, call any river. We're not behind much. 88 or AJ maybe.

Edit: Why are you open limping UTG in a 6 max game?

Hand 2 Aww eeeeennnnnn

Hand 3 Against a normal opponent I like a bet as we'll often get called by smaller pocket pairs. Against a tighty I think this is a standard check-fold.

Hectorjelly · 13-11-2006 3:23pm

ok hand 1, as I said before I pushed and he folded. I think calling and getting all in on a blank river may be slightly better

hand 2 I pushed, he folded. I reckon just calling might of been better, because I had a feeling at the time that he was bluffing. If he has a set the money can go in on the river anyway

hand 3 I was pretty sure that I had the guy beaten, he only raised on the turn because the guy bet so weakly. I bet half the pot on the river and he folded, my bet didnt really have any value though, the guys line means he probably has no pair. The problem with checking though is that I dont think the guy will bluff me on the river, and my hand is probably best.

Hectorjelly · 13-11-2006 3:28pm

ianmc38 wrote:

Edit: Why are you open limping UTG in a 6 max game?

Its the only place I think open limping is often the best play (maybe utg+1 sometimes). With this hand, I want as many opponents as possible (nut flush draw)and im happy for the pot to be small considering I will be out of position.

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