Early Milestone Post.....

BigDragon · 20-04-2006 8:36pm #1

Coming up on my 1000th post so instead of pissing it away on some rubbish gag I thought I'd get a bit introspective and talk sh1te about me and poker. Here it is........

BigDragon · 20-04-2006 8:36pm

….or how Poker has eaten me up.

I like poker, and I think that is my problem. The killer instinct is dormant in me. It raises its head every now and again and says ‘Boo!’ but its scaring nobody. I can play a bit and calculate odds but in the end I do stupid things too often. For what it’s worth here’s my take on the whole sheeebang….

About 18 months ago I decided that my back had had enough of rugby and I was going on a journey of self discovery….i.e. I was giving up the demon liquid stuff for a few months! The only problem was that for the previous my social life consisted of drinking! After a couple of home games a guy suggested the Fitz for a change and I head in for a Friday night to play the 50/50. All I can remember from that game was Pat Vickers eating the head off me, in a nice way, for playing a hand very badly. What I mean to say is I took his chips by rivering him with some muck that looked pretty. I drove home with a feeling I can only assume that junkies get after their first fix. I was determined to learn more about this game and did a search on the net and came across a site called boards.ie.

When I went to France on holiday for the first time I had very little French and had never driven on the right side of the road. Roundabouts were a total fcuking mystery. That’s how I felt when I read about betting on the come, runner runners, up’and’downers, TPTK, middle pins, and the like. Where’s my Poker-English dictionary Mr Eason? But you know what? I felt at home. Then a certain Devore posted about a guy who did something on a final table etc etc and I knew it was me and I got that junkie fix again. Next thing I know I’m learning loads and playing more. Eventually I start giving a certain dealer a lift home most Fridays and he starts talking about hands and positions and plays he’s seen dealing and things that I had never noticed. This guy can’t afford to play the tournaments I’m playing and he has me, and most others, in his pocket when it comes to strategy and play.

I know nothing.

Then a stupid thing happens. I win a tournament. It’s too fcuking early for me to win one. I don’t get big headed but I realize I CAN win them and that’s nearly worse as I want to win more. Bye, bye social life. Now for those of you that cry foul on gambling, I didn’t have a massive social life to begin with. TV became less of a hobby, that’s all. I am starting to get to an age where the whole pub/club thing every weekend is getting to me and tournament poker took over so it really was just a zero sum equation.

So am I a gambler now, do I have another addiction to deal with? I don’t know. I read once that a gamblers MRI scan of his brain whilst gambling is nearly exactly the same as that of a coke addicts’ brain on coke…go figure. The way I see it I like poker. I never play BJ, rarely bet on sports and know feck all about horses. So maybe I’m a poker addict. Yes possibly, but I pay my bills and look after my responsibilities and pension so how different is it from drinking it in the pub. The fact that Im playing online as I type speaks volumes, but it says more about the buyin ($3 rebuy) than me I think. Im ‘in the money’ btw.

My tournament game is improving all the time but I have to work harder than a lot of people that just arrive and have ‘game’. I’m getting happier about poker maths and conditional probability but my game theory and ‘reads’ need a lot of work. Overall, I’m a bad player. Slowly I’m getting better but if I don’t see improvement I could just go away. My biggest problem is probably fear. After talking with Sverre Sunbho at the Irish Open I know this is a big problem of mine and probably stops me finishing higher in fewer tournaments than lower in many….you know what I mean! I also have to get away from the tendency to fit my ‘read’ to suit my holding. If it looks like a set, walks like a set and quacks like a set then it’s probably a set and not a flush draw that my top two are ahead of.

In a way, I think that’s why I’ve started Onepercentpledge. To tie me to live poker. The genesis was to help people but maybe the implementation was for selfish reasons. It’s too early to tell.

The level of game I play leaves me open to ego in the levels I should be killing. There is a pub game locally that I should be killing because the standard is so poor. I have only played it once and wrote it off as a waste of my time but in the long run I know there is money there. But it’s not the ‘end of the month in the Fitz’. Aim high shoot low.

That’s where I am today, having one of many ‘why play poker moments’ wondering if things will change. Ninety percent of all players are losers and I am one of them. Not by much but close enough. I can count on one hand the number of players that would admit to that. Winning, and a winning image are important in poker. Bollox! Confidence is more important than winning because, one comes before the other. I truly believe that. Confidence is not ego though and a few of us here need to learn that to improve.

Above all friendship and the inevitable group dynamics in a selfish game keep me at it and here on boards.ie. I know about 5% of the surnames of people I trust here and that is weird but good.

Plan B, get a mentor and move on with a few ideas and experiences. CV’s to…………. ‘It’s all good’ as Damien Dempsey said.

Dub13 · 20-04-2006 8:58pm

Very nice and honest post Dave,Congrats on the 1000th post.

One thing from your post freaks me out a bit....did you drive on the left in France..:eek:

Ollieboy · 20-04-2006 8:58pm

Nice post mate and I guess its the same story for most people here.

jbravado · 20-04-2006 9:17pm

Pretty knew to the boards scene but is one of the best posts I have read here.:)

Gholimoli · 20-04-2006 11:50pm

nice post Mr D .
all i can say is been there ,came throught it,went there again ,came through it ...you get what i mean.

Marq · 21-04-2006 12:04am

Excellent read, nice call.

NickyOD · 21-04-2006 12:48am

BigD is the nuts.

Culchie · 21-04-2006 1:16am

Nice one Dave.

For what it's worth, I reckon you're one of the best players around, and well overdue a positive spell of variance.......and definitely one of the best blokes around as well.

Ugly as sin, but shure what can ya do.;)

myflipflops · 21-04-2006 1:53am

ur a gentleman to play against dave and a player i respect lots. if ur a "losing" player at the moment then just give it a few months and the attitude you bring to the tablle will turn that around.

note culchie: im very confident im uglier than him!

Iago · 21-04-2006 9:06am

Very impressive post Dave, Kudos to you!

I'm kind of in the same boat as you right now, I'm wondering whether it's worth the effort anymore. I've gone from playing 6-8 hours in a session to 1-2, I've gone from playing 4-5 days a week to sometimes only once a fortnight.

I am "up" to date, although only $7K over 12 months is hardly anything to be screaming about and frankly it hardly seems worthwhile any more. That I'm going through a period where I'm constantly being outdrawn or losing in 52/48 situations as well as never hitting my draws doesn't help matters. To be honest I simply don't think I'm good enough to make money in the long term at this game, so a break is long overdue.

Anyway for what it's worth, I think that was an excellent open and honest post from yourself, and having played against you a number of times I would add my voice to the crowd saying that it's only a matter of time before you become a consistent winning player. You have all the tools, just need a spot of good variance to make the difference and that will come.

Hitman Actual · 21-04-2006 10:15am

Excellent post, Dave, and like everyone else said I definately think you're selling yourself short on your own perceived ability. Although sometimes it's not a bad frame of mind cos it makes you constantly try to improve.

Your comments on fear/confidence are interesting as well. I think the whole variance thing has a big hand to play in this; when you're not running well, confidence can be hard to find, and some fear inevitably creeps in.

I can remember you getting into the top 20 of the Fitz EOM game a good few times, and getting horribly outdrawn, so it's only a matter of time before a big win comes along.

strewelpeter · 21-04-2006 10:39am

BigDragon wrote:

……….

‘It’s all good’ ........

Great reading Thanks.

ArmaniJeanss · 21-04-2006 10:45am

Iago wrote:

I am "up" to date, although only $7K over 12 months is hardly anything to be screaming about and frankly it hardly seems worthwhile any more.

7K in a year for a hobby is not to be sniffed at - its serious cash and you are obviously a way better player than average. You could give up poker and take up a lot of expensive hobbies - I'd say stick with it, 7K a year is serious wonga. Dont worry too much about translating it into an hourly rate - its not your job.
Let the pro's worrry about that sort of thing.

BigDragon.
Excellent post, very interesting.

patmac · 21-04-2006 11:05am

Iago wrote:

I am "up" to date, although only $7K over 12 months is hardly anything to be screaming about and frankly it hardly seems worthwhile any more. That I'm going through a period where I'm constantly being outdrawn or losing in 52/48 situations as well as never hitting my draws doesn't help matters. To be honest I simply don't think I'm good enough to make money in the long term at this game, so a break is long overdue.

7k in a year and your not happy! I've been playing for 3 months now and I am about break even, If I could make 700 in a year I'd be very happy.

bill_ashmount · 21-04-2006 11:11am

patmac wrote:

7k in a year and your not happy! I've been playing for 3 months now and I am about break even, If I could make 700 in a year I'd be very happy.

If I could break even i'd be delighted.....:(

TacT · 21-04-2006 12:22pm

very nice post BigD. Try to stay positive though! Things will turn around and go your way with a little or a lot of persistence.

ionapaul · 21-04-2006 12:41pm

TacT wrote:

very nice post BigD. Try to stay positive though! Things will turn around and go your way with a little or a lot of persistence.

Yep, I agree - g'wan the Dragon!

5starpool · 21-04-2006 1:11pm

All together now, lets give Dave a hug.........

I'd be in a very similiar situation to you Dave, a slightly better than break even player live. Surely something good will happen soon. Or not.

G'luck.

kincsem · 21-04-2006 1:46pm

Nice post, Dave. I always like to see you at my table, not because you are a fish, as you are more shark than fish, but because you are witty and will talk about things other than whose turn it is and how much is the bet.

I think we play for the competition more than the money. Many players have/had a sports background and still like to compete.

At the moment I am "training" for the Wicklow 100 in June. It is a non-competitive bicycle ride in Wicklow. So I spend a few evenings a week killing myself on the bike, with the aim of an even bigger ordeal in June. It's just competition of sorts. I'm down about two grand in new bikes and lycra.

Hitman Actual · 21-04-2006 1:50pm

5starpool wrote:

I'd be in a very similiar situation to you Dave, a slightly better than break even player live. Surely something good will happen soon. Or not.

This is from the guy who's constantly in the Fitz tournament league final... you jest, surely?

5starpool · 21-04-2006 2:15pm

lenny_leonard wrote:

This is from the guy who's constantly in the Fitz tournament league final... you jest, surely?

Here are my stats for the last 8 months for interests sake. Seems to be quantity more than quality. The vast majority of these are in the Fitz. To be a very profitable player you have to be in the top 3 far more often than I am.

Tournaments played: 129 (that many :eek: )
Final Tables: 39
Top 3: 12 (not good enough)
Win or Split: 6
Profit: ~1500 (certainly not good enough)

Cash Sessions played: 81 (all round of each or omaha only)
Profitable: 43
Profit: ~1200

Amount staked to earn this meagre profit: ~30k

These are all live figures, and probably shows why I don't have enoungh spare time to play online what with this day job thingy interfering.

I have several areas of bothe my tournament play and cash play that I need to improve on that I know of, and probably lots that I don't know of. The amount staked there is not really relevant probably as I don't stake money that I don't have. I went on a bad streak from mid Nov - mid Feb which cost me a good chunk and I am only still recovering. The perception of a winning player is not necessarily a true one. I am one - barely, and not enough for my liking.

Edit: Hope I haven't ruined my rep here and revealed my fishiness. damn me if I have. Took my honesty and openness pill this morning though.

Sorry for hijacking Dave

Hitman Actual · 21-04-2006 2:27pm

5starpool wrote:

Took my honesty and openness pill this morning though.

Sorry for hijacking Dave

Dave started the whole honesty thing with his post, apologies for hijacking as well (but I was interested, 5star!). Hopefully it will get back on topic now!

califano · 21-04-2006 2:35pm

5starpool wrote:

Profit: ~1500 (certainly not good enough)

Is this minus tips?.

My live form is a succession of duck eggs but i usually get a good run up the stand side before flattering to decieve. Next time im wearing blinkers!.

5starpool · 21-04-2006 2:37pm

thats after tips.

ollyk1 · 21-04-2006 3:01pm

Is there anybody truly surprised at BigD's post?? There are a lot of live players who I personally consider are reasonably solid (and definitely are better players than I) that are losing money or barely breaking even over an extended period. I don't feel bad for them becasue I'm losing money too and at least we are enjoying ourselves and in the long run not losing a large amount of cash on a per night basis.

I thought Dom's tournie figures were very interesting as they reveal he wins €11 per tournie played on average. I think if a regular dublin casino tournie player looks at his stats for the best and worst rolling 6 month periods in the last two years he'll see that he's either lost €10-20 per night or won on average €10-20 per night.

I think Dom's figures are highly commendable and about right for a decent above average player for the level of cash risked in regular tournies and the hurried structure of the games.

If you want to make more money you have to risk a lot more money in tournies with better structures and hope you are still a winning player at that level.

My personal opinion on BigD's situation (and I hope you don't mind me stating this publicly Dave) is that about 6 months ago you started playing a lot of bigger buyin games with €250-€500+ buyins which was a correct strategy to try and make more money from the game in the long run. Unfortunately you got repeatedly kicked in the stones and slowly this caused you to retrench a bit from your natural game and maybe the BR for poker whilst physically available at all times perhaps mentally was a bit too high to keep risking without an effect on your play?

I know I personally have a BR which has become depleted of late and as I start to hit what I personally find an unacceptable downswing its effecting my play. This doesn't mean I don't have pleny of cash in the bank account or I'm not making other investments etc but there comes a point when I say I'm spending too much on this hobby and I go back to playing a lot less until I maybe get a decent win.

This is the key difference between an amateur and a pro. A good pro gets up in the morning and its like yesterday didn't happen and he plays to maximise return today and doesn't retreat into his shell. So in conclusion you aren't a pro Dave but so what? You are a bloody good player and you get a lot of entertainment from your hobby and meet a lot of interesting (as well as obnoxious) people.

Just take the positive from the game/hobby Dave and maybe scale back a bit and go back to good quality smaller games until you get back on a bit of a winning streak and get your confidence back. You don't have to be making €10,000's from the game for it be fun.

GL

Olly.

5starpool wrote:

Edit: Hope I haven't ruined my rep here and revealed my fishiness. damn me if I have.

P.S. Fish.

jimbling · 21-04-2006 3:16pm

Firstly, an excellent post Dave.

ArmaniJeanss wrote:

7K in a year for a hobby is not to be sniffed at - its serious cash and you are obviously a way better player than average. You could give up poker and take up a lot of expensive hobbies - I'd say stick with it, 7K a year is serious wonga. Dont worry too much about translating it into an hourly rate - its not your job.
Let the pro's worrry about that sort of thing.

this is an extremely important point to all non-pros. You do NOT have to turn your profits into an hourly rate. It will probably make you think your wasting your time. But are you really?? do you still enjoy playing poker? do you prefer a game of poker to sitting on your arse watching ****e TV all night?

if you can make anything from €1 and up a year from something that you enjoy and treat as a hobby..... then you're better off than most.

I've made about 6k since I started playing this time last year. I've paid for a Holiday in the states (and vegas), paid my tax and insurance on my car and added a few grand to my savings....... I am extremely happy about it all.

Obviously its a different story if you're aspiring to turn pro... then you need to look at this to find out what your capable of.

califano · 21-04-2006 3:18pm

ollyk1 wrote:

I thought Dom's tournie figures were very interesting as they reveal he wins €11 per tournie played on average

If 5starpool's stats were the watermark of even the average tournament player(actually im sure his stats are a lot better than the average tournament player) im wondering is it worth it to even be playing mid range buy-in live games for anything other than enjoyment?.

5starpool · 21-04-2006 3:22pm

I doubt it is possible to earn a living from the regular tournaments in the Fitz. I play partly for the enjoyment of poker, partly because I know I have a decent chance of winning now and then, and partly because I am sick. And also because I know that over time I don't 'lose'.

ollyk1 · 21-04-2006 3:28pm

rounders123 wrote:

If 5starpool's stats were the watermark of even the average tournament player(actually im sure his stats are a lot better than the average tournament player) im wondering is it worth it to even be playing mid range buy-in live games for anything other than enjoyment?.

Eh did you not read my comments on this in my blog?

If the average player loses the reg plus a portion of tips (from the odd win) every night of course Dom's figures are a lot better than average. Are you really playing mid range (€50-€100 buyin) tournie games with an expectation of massive profit?

Another way to think about this is to consider the BR required to play these tournies ~€1000-€1500 say and compare that to a low buy-in live cash game (BR should be >€3000 for the minimum live cash game imho) and how much money you'd expect to make on average from such a cash game.

Bottom line is you aren't risking enough to make serious money live. Online is probably another story and I can't shed any light on it in any event.

ollyk1 · 21-04-2006 3:30pm

5starpool wrote:

I doubt it is possible to earn a living from the regular tournaments in the Fitz. I play partly for the enjoyment of poker, partly because I know I have a decent chance of winning now and then, and partly because I am sick. And also because I know that over time I don't 'lose'.

Unless you are the homeless dude you lives outside the Fitz who seems to be doing alright on the sambos!!

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