Looking for documentaries like Forks Over Knives.

TheFortField · 16-08-2018 3:00pm #1

I recently watched Forks Over Knives and was blown away by the health benefits experienced by some chronically ill patients (heart disease, diabetes etc) who switched to a Plant Based Diet.

I would love to watch more documentaries like this - I’d appreciate any recommendations you could offer.

gozunda · 16-08-2018 3:47pm

TheFortField wrote: »

I recently watched Forks Over Knives and was blown away by the health benefits experienced by some chronically ill patients (heart disease, diabetes etc) who switched to a Plant Based Diet.

I would love to watch more documentaries like this - I’d appreciate any recommendations you could offer.

There's loads out there and I've watched a fair few. But imo most should come with a viewer beware warning. A lot of the science does not stand up to scrutiny.

For example see:
https://deniseminger.com/2011/09/22/forks-over-knives-is-the-science-legit-a-review-and-critique/

TheFortField · 16-08-2018 4:01pm

That was a very interesting article gozunda, thanks for sharing it!

ElKavo · 16-08-2018 4:47pm

Here is a link to a rebuttal by Dr Campbell to Denise Minger, you may want to have a look at. A lot of the forks over knives doc takes its info from the original study.

http://www.vegsource.com/news/2010/07/china-study-author-colin-campbell-slaps-down-critic-denise-minger.html

gozunda · 16-08-2018 5:04pm

ElKavo wrote: »

Here is a link to a rebuttal by Dr Campbell to Denise Minger, you may want to have a look at. A lot of the forks over knives doc takes its info from the original study.

http://www.vegsource.com/news/2010/07/china-study-author-colin-campbell-slaps-down-critic-denise-minger.html

That 'rebuttal' is not directed at Denise Mingers critique of Forks over Knives - rather an earlier critique of the Campbell's 'The China Study'.

It is of note that she is just one of many who are critical of Campbell's (largely outdated) work and have debunked many of his findings. She is also an ex vegan afaik ...

ElKavo · 16-08-2018 5:19pm

ElKavo wrote: »

Here is a link to a rebuttal by Dr Campbell to Denise Minger, you may want to have a look at. A lot of the forks over knives doc takes its info from the original study.

http://www.vegsource.com/news/2010/07/china-study-author-colin-campbell-slaps-down-critic-denise-minger.html

gozunda wrote: »

That 'rebuttal' is not directed at Denise Mingers critique of Forks over Knives - rather an earlier critique of the Campbell's 'The China Study'.

It is of note that she is just one of many who are critical of Campbell's (largely outdated) work and have debunked many of his findings. She is also an ex vegan afaik ...

Now I'm pretty sure I said that "A lot of the forks over knives doc takes its info from the original study."

What her dietary choice has to do with it I am not sure. If anything her "work" seems to many to be a justification of her choices as opposed to actually finding fault with the study.

gozunda · 16-08-2018 7:14pm

ElKavo wrote: »

Now I'm pretty sure I said that "A lot of the forks over knives doc takes its info from the original study."
What her dietary choice has to do with it I am not sure. If anything her "work" seems to many to be a justification of her choices as opposed to actually finding fault with the study.

It remains it's not a rebutal of her review of Forks and Knives.

As for diet nothing much - just's that her viewpoint imo would have a wider scope than let's say someone who has only ever eaten a fairly typical mixed diet.

And to note I did not pick her out specifically as there's many individuals who have been critical of the China Study and it's conclusions. Many also considered the study to be seriously out of date. That it is been reused for popular viewing is therefore a reasonable criticism imo. Many of the other 'films' in this genre also exhibit the use of poor science and distorted findings. A number of these remind me of old school Soviet style anti-capitalist propaganda tbh.

16-08-2018 11:18pm

A quick search for movies similar to ‘forks over knives’ brings up -

Earthlings 2005

Peaceable Kingdom 2004 and I think it has a more recent release date too

Cowspiracy 2014

Live and let live 2013

Food inc 2008

What the health 2017

davidjtaylor · 17-08-2018 3:37pm

It would be good to restrict the thread to answering the original question.

What You Eat Matters - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDg7tlEJD64

davidjtaylor · 17-08-2018 4:44pm

Vegan 2017 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxVR53xemSs

davidjtaylor · 17-08-2018 4:53pm

How Not to Die - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e-SeUTlX9o

davidjtaylor · 17-08-2018 4:55pm

And I love this one: Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead, very entertaining.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-WUP5psyuM

TheFortField · 17-08-2018 4:56pm

Many thanks for the links, David

davidjtaylor · 22-08-2018 1:32pm

Food Choices

davidjtaylor · 22-08-2018 4:02pm

This is a good, entertaining but factual presentation by Dr. Michael Greger called 'Uprooting the Leading Causes of Death' and how every one of them can be dealt with by moving to a plant-based lifestyle.

davidjtaylor · 22-08-2018 5:04pm

Speciesism to Veganism

I haven't watched this yet but a quick glance says it's harrowing. And, at 3 hours, a marathon.

TheFortField · 23-08-2018 12:02am

davidjtaylor wrote: »

This is a good, entertaining but factual presentation by Dr. Michael Greger called 'Uprooting the Leading Causes of Death' and how every one of them can be dealt with by moving to a plant-based lifestyle.

Thanks David.

I watched this tonight, it was very enjoyable for a medical presentation. I love Greger’s passionate and energetic presentation style, I’ve just ordered his book - How not to die.

TheFortField · 23-08-2018 2:11pm

davidjtaylor wrote: »

And I love this one: Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead, very entertaining.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-WUP5psyuM

I found Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead 1 & 2 on Netflix. I'm looking forward to watching this tonight, Joe Cross seems like a likeable guy from the little bit I watched. And...those before and after pictures are unreal!!

davidjtaylor · 23-08-2018 2:22pm

Ah, I didn't know there was a FS&ND2. Great, I'll look it up, thanks.

davidjtaylor · 23-08-2018 2:35pm

Land of Hope and Glory

The reality behind the spin of the animal exploitation regime in the UK. Gruesome.

TheFortField · 23-08-2018 2:51pm

davidjtaylor wrote: »

How Not to Die - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e-SeUTlX9o

I watched this ^^^ and it was enjoyable. Greger reminds me of someone but I can’t for the life of me think who. I couldn’t locate part 2 for some reason

I found an interview with Joe Cross, I haven’t had a chance to watch it yet.

Edit: I’ve less than 50 posts so I’m prevented from embedding videos.

https://youtu.be/bs36n9Hh4TA

davidjtaylor · 23-08-2018 3:05pm

TheFortField wrote: »

I couldn’t locate part 2 for some reason

It looks like the original was cut in half for YT.

The full 2&1/2 hour doc. is here: https://londonreal.tv/e/dr-michael-greger-how-not-to-die/

ElKavo · 23-08-2018 5:33pm

Not necessarily health related but I have heard that Carnage by Simon amstel is quite the watch. Its a mocumentary so a bit lighter than some of the others mentioned.

https://archive.org/details/SimonAmstellCarnageP04sh6zgIplayer

ElKavo · 23-08-2018 5:35pm

davidjtaylor wrote: »

Land of Hope and Glory

The reality behind the spin of the animal exploitation regime in the UK. Gruesome.

This is often refereed to as the UK's earthlings. There are tonnes of folk who say "that type of stuff never happens here we have tighter laws etc" all balls of course to protect their vested interests.

ElKavo · 24-08-2018 12:07pm

Not fully released yet so not sure where you would get this one.

https://www.livekindly.co/new-vegan-documentary-the-end-of-meat-premiere-nyc-la/

davidjtaylor · 24-08-2018 12:08pm

ElKavo wrote: »

Not necessarily health related but I have heard that Carnage by Simon amstel is quite the watch. Its a mocumentary so a bit lighter than some of the others mentioned.

https://archive.org/details/SimonAmstellCarnageP04sh6zgIplayer

That's hilarious! Love subtle humour like that.

Tar.Aldarion · 24-08-2018 4:57pm

Yes that was a fantastic piece!

01-09-2018 5:21pm

TheFortField wrote: »

I recently watched Forks Over Knives and was blown away by the health benefits experienced by some chronically ill patients (heart disease, diabetes etc) who switched to a Plant Based Diet.

I would love to watch more documentaries like this - I’d appreciate any recommendations you could offer.

Dominion ( documentary released this year)

There’s been a crazy positive reaction to this movie over here in Australia.

Melbourne has been leading the way for vegan social choices but after the recent release of this movie there’s been a backlash of anger from Sydney folk looking for more cruelty free choices.

This nation seems to be gripped by the health benefits whilst also being very angry about not realising the pain and torture their previous lifestyle was causing.

Australia seems to be truly embracing the vegan way of life.

gozunda · 01-09-2018 6:01pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Dominion ( documentary released this year)
There’s been a crazy positive reaction to this movie over here in Australia.

Melbourne has been leading the way for vegan social choices but after the recent release of this movie there’s been a backlash of anger from Sydney folk looking for more cruelty free choices.

This nation seems to be gripped by the health benefits whilst also being very angry about not realising the pain and torture their previous lifestyle was causing.

Australia seems to be truly embracing the vegan way of life.

Imo the Dominion film is at best a highly questionable documentary. As far as I can see from the usual Australian sources - the majority of Australians have neither watched the film nor are gripped by 'veganism' etc...

To get a more realistic and balanced view on these issues I would recommend you read this piece written by an Austrslian expert on food production

https://permaculture.com.au/happen-animals-everyone-went-vegan/

Tar.Aldarion · 02-09-2018 8:48pm

jbroaders, you may not discuss what animal products you ate here. Feel free to post again without that!

TheFortField · 04-09-2018 9:48pm

davidjtaylor wrote: »

Food Choices

I watched Food Choices last night, I found it very interesting, particularly the contributions from the Ultra-endurance athletes, boxers and MMA fighters who reported significant improvements in their fitness and performances since switching to a plant-based diet.

A friend sent me this list of documentaries earlier, some of them have been mentioned in the thread already.

gozunda · 05-09-2018 10:16am

Unfortunately many of the above drama-documentaties which I've seen do not stand up to scrutiny and frequently peddle misinformation imo.

Thankfully I'm not the only individual who has noticed this trend...

By Virginia Messina, MPH, RD

As a vegan health professional, I am sometimes mortified to be associated with the junk science that permeates our community. And as an animal rights activist, I’m disheartened by advocacy efforts that can make us look scientifically illiterate, dishonest, and occasionally like a cult of conspiracy theorists.

There is a growing movement to create a more honest and evidence-based approach to vegan nutrition, though. And those of us who value this effort need to be a more visible presence in the animal rights community. We can’t allow our voices to be drowned out by the pseudoscientific noise. We need the non-vegan world to know that it is possible to stand in support of animal rights while embracing scientific integrity.

https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

Tilikum17 · 05-09-2018 1:13pm

TheFortField wrote: »

I watched Food Choices last night, I found it very interesting, particularly the contributions from the Ultra-endurance athletes, boxers and MMA fighters who reported significant improvements in their fitness and performances since switching to a plant-based diet.

A friend sent me this list of documentaries earlier, some of them have been mentioned in the thread already.

Cheers!! A few there I’ve not seen.

TheFortField · 05-09-2018 3:54pm

gozunda wrote: »

Unfortunately many of the above drama-documentaties which I've seen do not stand up to scrutiny and frequently peddle misinformation imo.

Thankfully I'm not the only individual who has noticed this trend...

https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

I don't want to derail the thread but I'd like to address the point you've made. I don't buy into everything I'm told and accept it as gospel. For example: look at the alcohol industry, they'll tell you that red wine is good for your heart and it may even help to prevent dementia - on the other side, the medical profession tell us that alcohol can cause cancer and there is no safe level of alcohol consumption. So what do we do? Some people will carry on drinking heavily, others will reduce their intake and a smaller number will eliminate alcohol completely. All we can do is evaluate the information that is available to us and make choices that suit us and our lives.

I started this thread after watching Forks over Knives. The documentary prompted me to re-evaluate my diet. For the first 18 years of my life I followed mainly a vegetarian diet as my mother was vegetarian (which was unusual at the time in Ireland). For the next 20 years, I was in a relationship with a part-time dairy and beef farmer who loved all food - fruit, vegetables, meat and fish. I was converted and I will admit I embraced and thoroughly enjoyed this lifestyle.

However, while I was eating what I considered healthy foods and exercising daily I felt really dreadful most of the time - yet on paper I was a healthy person - good blood test results, no medical conditions, no meds, no weight issues etc. I decided to give the plant-based diet a try a couple of months ago, the first couple of weeks were awful, I had headaches and I was permanently exhausted. However, I'm glad I stuck with it. I have never felt healthier and happier in my whole life! I won't go listing all the benefits but I definitely notice that my mood is so much better, my mind is sharper, clearer and I have more energy. The only downside so far is I've dropped a size and need to buy new clothes.

I'm not racing out to convert people to veganism/vegetarianism but so far it seems to be benefitting me and without seeing FOK or reading 'How Not To Die' it might have taken me years to make these changes as my GP would never have had any reason to raise diet with me.

gozunda · 05-09-2018 7:46pm

TheFortField wrote: »

I don't want to derail the thread but I'd like to address the point you've made. I don't buy into everything I'm told and accept it as gospel. For example: look at the alcohol industry, they'll tell you that red wine is good for your heart and it may even help to prevent dementia - on the other side, the medical profession tell us that alcohol can cause cancer and there is no safe level of alcohol consumption. So what do we do? Some people will carry on drinking heavily, others will reduce their intake and a smaller number will eliminate alcohol completely. All we can do is evaluate the information that is available to us and make choices that suit us and our lives.

I started this thread after watching Forks over Knives. The documentary prompted me to re-evaluate my diet. For the first 18 years of my life I followed mainly a vegetarian diet as my mother was vegetarian (which was unusual at the time in Ireland). For the next 20 years, I was in a relationship with a part-time dairy and beef farmer who loved all food - fruit, vegetables, meat and fish. I was converted and I will admit I embraced and thoroughly enjoyed this lifestyle.

However, while I was eating what I considered healthy foods and exercising daily I felt really dreadful most of the time - yet on paper I was a healthy person - good blood test results, no medical conditions, no meds, no weight issues etc. I decided to give the plant-based diet a try a couple of months ago, the first couple of weeks were awful, I had headaches and I was permanently exhausted. However, I'm glad I stuck with it. I have never felt healthier and happier in my whole life! I won't go listing all the benefits but I definitely notice that my mood is so much better, my mind is sharper, clearer and I have more energy. The only downside so far is I've dropped a size and need to buy new clothes.

I'm not racing out to convert people to veganism/vegetarianism but so far it seems to be benefitting me and without seeing FOK or reading 'How Not To Die' it might have taken me years to make these changes as my GP would never have had any reason to raise diet with me.

No worries on anything you have detailed. That's a personal viewpoint. However it remains that a lot of those drama-documentaries use pseudo-science and whole bunches of misinformation. As detailed above this has been highlighted by both vegans when others. Personslly I can only liken watching some of them to the communist era propaganda

jbroaders · 06-09-2018 10:05pm

Forks and knives is why I turned vegan about 8 weeks ago. That article just shattered my resolve. Brilliantly written. Dammit !!

Tar.Aldarion · 07-09-2018 2:11am

jbroaders wrote: »

Forks and knives is why I turned vegan about 8 weeks ago. That article just shattered my resolve. Brilliantly written. Dammit !!

In general, do not believe a documentary about everything, the same as you should not believe most people about anything. In general all these things exaggerate somewhat as they need to get views but the main message is "Vegetables are good for you. Stop eating processed foods and you will be healthier". If you take that as a starting point to work on you'll be much better off. If you actually want to learn about nutrition go to a nutrition forum such as https://www.reddit.com/r/nutrition/ or use the boards forum.

davidjtaylor · 11-09-2018 1:17pm

The Vegan Society has a few videos on its website too.

I just watched Making the Connection; personal stories mixed with inspiring interviews. Iain Tolhurst does an excellent job for stock-free gardening.

12-09-2018 8:08am

Not sure where to post this link but has anyone seen this ?

Is it worth me going to a lot of hassle to see it ?

P&O stops transporting calves following BBC investigation http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45487502

12-09-2018 10:03am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not sure where to post this link but has anyone seen this ?

Is it worth me going to a lot of hassle to see it ?

P&O stops transporting calves following BBC investigation http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45487502

I forgot to say the last paragraph of that article was pretty jaw dropping to me.

davidjtaylor · 12-09-2018 10:28am

It's not easy to access much of BBC iPlayer stuff from outside the UK. Fair enough! We don't pay their licence fee.

It may appear on YouTube at some point.

davidjtaylor · 16-09-2018 11:34am

Another good one, 10 years old but even more relevant today, full of good points, inspiring:

Processed People

davidjtaylor · 16-09-2018 11:46am

Try this one: it's not from a vegan slant. Instead, it's an understated eye-popper about the insanity of the American diet.

It's another case of poor people handing over their money to the mega-rich in exchange for ill-health.

King Corn

gozunda · 16-09-2018 12:07pm

davidjtaylor wrote: »

Try this one: it's not from a vegan slant. Instead, it's an understated eye-popper about the insanity of the American diet.

It's another case of poor people handing over their money to the mega-rich in exchange for ill-health.

King Corn

I don't think anyone would argue that eating highly processed foods or diet high in same is bad for you.

The issue with many pro-vegan documentaries ive watched is that the evident use of misinformation and faux science used to push veganism specifically.

That's fine - however it does have the unfortunate consequence that it can lead to this ...

davidjtaylor · 16-09-2018 4:17pm

I haven't watched this in full yet. Unity

100 celebrities narrate this enlightening documentary that re-examines the interconnectedness of all life on Earth, ponders our place in the universe, while taking viewers on an epic journey through the history of civilization and beyond. In this compassionate and inspiring film, your heart and mind are taken on a rollercoaster ride that is inspiring, horrifying and enlightening all at once, the perfect balance between light and shadow.

Beware: distressing in parts.

davidjtaylor · 17-09-2018 12:17pm

davidjtaylor wrote: »

Unity

Beware: distressing in parts.

Watched it. It examines the place of humans in the universe and their contradictions and possibilities and the centrality of 'do no harm'. Lots of take-away thoughts.

It's impossible to watch in many sections. Eating live fish? :eek:

17-09-2018 12:28pm

Hard to watch but very important watch also.

The truth does hurt.

I’d be delighted to see it as part of the curriculum.

Not sure what age group though.

gozunda · 17-09-2018 2:23pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hard to watch but very important watch also.
The truth does hurt.
I’d be delighted to see it as part of the curriculum.
Not sure what age group though.

Afaik the national curriculum generally doesn't use Hollywood propaganda type films

To be fair some vegans and others have been very critical of the film to date.

Since becoming a vegan, I have learnt more and more about the ways in which veganism is seen by others and how there is a very wrong use of heavy propaganda in order to “force” others to adapt this lifestyle. This has been something I have disliked from the beginning, as it is up to each person to find their beliefs. One of the main reasons I did not like Unity in the end, was due to the fact that there was an overwhelming bombardment of graphic images, statistics, famous quotes that were used completely out of context and even a fish being eaten whilst alive in China. I understand the need sometimes to shock people and show them harsh realities, however when suddenly all health problems seam to be put down to eating meat and when it is suggested that we are soon to evolve into a whole new species called Homo-Spiritus, (both of which are displayed in the film), I think it quickly turns into one man enforcing his views on others, with no real scientific, evolutionary or factual backing and knowledge. There appears to be an underlying tone that those who eat meat are somehow wrong and not elevated, both physically and spiritually as vegans are, which only serves to divide people and the films viewers, a complete contradiction to the films message of unity and harmony among all beings.

https://gemsandrainbows.wordpress.com/2015/08/15/unity-film-review/

http://www.impulsegamer.com/unity-film-review/

Homo-Spiritus :rolleyes:

davidjtaylor · 18-09-2018 11:02am

The Marshall Plan

When [Marshall] Texas Mayor Ed Smith III was diagnosed with prostate cancer, he elected to forego conventional treatment in favor of a whole food, plant-based diet. The results were nothing short of miraculous: his cancer disappeared. He and his wife embarked on a mission to help their town and community adopt a healthier lifestyle based on plant foods.

The stories of Marshall's residents are combined with interviews from expert doctors and researchers in the field of nutrition, and professional athletes.

18-09-2018 1:01pm

Quite a few movies I’ve never heard of there so I’ve some viewing ahead of me.

davidjtaylor · 18-09-2018 1:04pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Quite a few movies I’ve never heard of there sonive some viewing ahead of me.

I've learnt about a few on this thread too!. I'm putting together a list here. It's a work in progress.

Looking for documentaries like Forks Over Knives.

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