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Patching tubes question

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  • 24-01-2020 9:11am
    #1
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭


    I've commuted to work daily for 6 years and probably cycled 10s of thousands of kilometres when you include club spins. I'm ashamed to say I've never patched a tube, always replaced! So I'm trying to do alittle more by reusing and reducing waste.

    For the experienced tube patchers i have some naive but more stupid questions.

    I recently patched a tube and in the space of 12hours the tube pressure dropped from 85psi to 40 psi. I presume this isn't normal?

    What sort of lifespan are people getting out of patched tubes?

    What test do you do after patching to ensure its a job well done? The job i did looks good, looks sealed all around but there's still pressure leaking. So i presume i balls it up!

    J


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    #2
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users Posts: 9,893 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
    Probably didn't patch it right.

    Spread the glue reasonably thinly, I always go a smidgen wider than the patch, leave it a 2-4 minutes (depends on conditions) you want the glue to be getting to the point where you could peel it rather than wipe it off.

    Apply the patch with firm pressure and hold for like 10 seconds or so and try to avoid air bubbles and you're done.

    Tube should be as solid as new. I've had tubes in the past that were almost more patch than tube.

    EDIT: Some people also use that piece of sandpaper to clean and roughen the spot up, I never bothered but use it uf you prefer.


    Perfectly fine video here about the steps to glue and patch around the 5 mins mark

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0F_hibWHlU


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    #3
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,215 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    What patches are you using? Self adhesive ones?

    Also, are you cleaning the tube with sandpaper before applying the glue?

    Is the hole in the tube at or near the seam of the tube? If it is, it can be difficult to get the patch to seal correctly.

    I only repair tubes if I can apply the patch to the tube with out having to place the patch on the seam or too close to the valve.

    I also have a two patch rule... that is I only repair a tube twice... after that, if I get a puncture i bin the tube and replace with a new one.


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    #4
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,954 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    jon1981 wrote: »
    ....What sort of lifespan are people getting out of patched tubes?....
    If patched correctly, it will last as long as an unpatched tube. How long is a piece of string.......etc.

    I recall that when I was a youngster and had little money, having 19 patches on a tube. Back then it was cheaper to patch them. Now, I'd say it's 50/50 as to whether you're saving anything by patching.


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    #5
    Idleater
    Registered Users Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Idleater


    I fix mine in batches indoors.
    Pump up a punctured tube a bit.
    Starting at the valve, feed it slowly through a hand lightly circling the tube feeling for escaping air. Holding it close to the face can help hear air escaping.
    Mark the hole when found with an X (I put a pen in the hole and Mark up, down left and right).
    Continue until you get to the valve again, in case there is more than one hole.
    Deflate the tube
    Clean the area around the X and sand a 2-3cm diameter, especially flattening any tube seams.
    Clean and get a patch ready (I cut a square from a large sheet)
    Apply rubber solution to the tube leave for 20 seconds and then spread with a finger.
    It will go tacky.
    Apply the patch and press/stretch from the center out.
    Leave to dry
    Some time later, inflate and leave (I leave it overnight)
    Any tubes still inflated in the morning are stored for use, others are assessed case by case.


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    #6
    blackbox
    Registered Users Posts: 4,102 ✭✭✭blackbox


    A common cause of a tyre going down again is that the cause of the problem hasn't been removed and has punctured the tube again.
    You should always check the tyre around the area of the puncture to ensure the tack/thorn/glass is not still there. Check the inside by gently feeling with your fingers, but be careful not to get cut.


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    #7
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    Thanks, some good tips here. Never thought about pumping it up and leaving it overnight. I'm pretty sure i followed most of steps correctly. I'm using the rema patches, they seem to be the go to patches for most!


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    #8
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    blackbox wrote: »
    A common cause of a tyre going down again is that the cause of the problem hasn't been removed and has punctured the tube again.
    You should always check the tyre around the area of the puncture to ensure the tack/thorn/glass is not still there. Check the inside by gently feeling with your fingers, but be careful not to get cut.

    Yeah i found the culprit alright so at least removed that as a potential cause.


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    #9
    Dr_Colossus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,118 ✭✭✭Dr_Colossus


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    What patches are you using? Self adhesive ones?

    Also, are you cleaning the tube with sandpaper before applying the glue?

    Is the hole in the tube at or near the seam of the tube? If it is, it can be difficult to get the patch to seal correctly.

    I only repair tubes if I can apply the patch to the tube with out having to place the patch on the seam or too close to the valve.

    I also have a two patch rule... that is I only repair a tube twice... after that, if I get a puncture i bin the tube and replace with a new one.

    I've used the self adhesive patches a lot but have had a number of Topeak patches fail unexpectedly after a number of months so I stick to the ParkTool now which have been reliable.
    Also use the traditional patches with glue which have the advantage of larger patches which can double as a tyre boot if stuck.

    I always clean the tube with sandpaper prior to applying and remove any excess rubber along the seams.
    My rule is generally 5 patches before I replace the tube.
    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    If patched correctly, it will last as long as an unpatched tube. How long is a piece of string.......etc.

    I recall that when I was a youngster and had little money, having 19 patches on a tube. Back then it was cheaper to patch them. Now, I'd say it's 50/50 as to whether you're saving anything by patching.

    Hardly 50/50. I bought 4 Conti 700x23c tubes last week on sale at €3.61 a piece. I also bought two patch kits, the ParkTool GP-2 self-adhesive Patch Kit for €2.57 which has 6 patches and Park Tool VP-1 Patch Kit for €1.85 which also has 6 patches.

    The most I've ever seen was 21 patches on a tube belonging to an old neighbour on the rear wheel of a high nellie. With the fully enclosed chain guard and rod brakes it was easier to patch the tube than remove the wheel so generally only the tube was replaced when the tyre was down to the canvas.


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    #10
    Luxman
    Registered Users Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Luxman


    For some reason (probably a trick I learned as a kid) was applying pressure to the freshly applied patch and not just finger pressure. I tend (to my wife despair) leave it under a heavy object around the house (the bin works!). Then pump it up and leave overnight


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    #11
    Peterx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭Peterx


    jon1981 wrote: »
    For the experienced tube patchers i have some naive but more stupid questions.

    I recently patched a tube and in the space of 12hours the tube pressure dropped from 85psi to 40 psi...So i presume i balls it up!
    J

    Might be the sneaky second puncture somewhere else on the tube.
    Or else the teeny tiny little bit of glass in the tyre that's hard to spot if still there.

    The fixing in batches approach works for me too, a pot of tea, the radio on, a pile of tubes and about 45 minutes to yourself. Very calming too :)


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    #12
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    Peterx wrote: »
    Might be the sneaky second puncture somewhere else on the tube.
    Or else the teeny tiny little bit of glass in the tyre that's hard to spot if still there.

    Now I'm paranoid! I'll be having a second look at the punctured tube tonight! Haven't patched that one yet


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    #13
    Peterx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭Peterx


    jon1981 wrote: »
    Now I'm paranoid! I'll be having a second look at the punctured tube tonight! Haven't patched that one yet

    I usually inflate the patched tube a little bit, have a listen for any more leaks and then leave it overnight.


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    #14
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    If patched correctly, it will last as long as an unpatched tube. How long is a piece of string.......etc.

    I recall that when I was a youngster and had little money, having 19 patches on a tube. Back then it was cheaper to patch them. Now, I'd say it's 50/50 as to whether you're saving anything by patching.

    I cut an old tube for patches. Glue was a few euros... The only additional cost with patching is the time I cannot cycle because the patch cures...


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    #15
    eeeee
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,820 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    I think my record was 6 patches in a rear tyre got a year and a half before I gave in and put a new tube in :D I'm comfortable with more patches in the rear than the front, don't allow any patches in the tank bike and none in front of the race bike.

    I sand paper, glue, wait a couple of minutes, attach patch, press really hard on it for a while, then I grind a bit of chalk on the excess glue outside the patch in case it sticks to the tyre (I know this won't happen really, but I can't not do it).

    The one disadvantage it's folding up patched/ used tubes to go in a bag/ tool bottle etc, that's a pita.


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    #16
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,708 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    jon1981 wrote: »
    Now I'm paranoid! I'll be having a second look at the punctured tube tonight! Haven't patched that one yet

    When putting the tyre on in future, make sure the valve lines up with the first letter of writing on the tyre. Then when you find out where the puncture is on the tube you can figure out where to search on the inside of the tyre for that evil little bit of embedded glass, thorn or wire.

    Like others here, I wait until I've a few tubes to patch and do them over a beer or two while listening to some tunes, kind of therapeutic.


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    #17
    triggermortis
    Registered Users Posts: 2,683 ✭✭✭triggermortis


    Idleater wrote: »
    I fix mine in batches indoors.
    Pump up a punctured tube a bit.
    Starting at the valve, feed it slowly through a hand lightly circling the tube feeling for escaping air. Holding it close to the face can help hear air escaping.
    Mark the hole when found with an X (I put a pen in the hole and Mark up, down left and right).
    Continue until you get to the valve again, in case there is more than one hole.
    Deflate the tube
    Clean the area around the X and sand a 2-3cm diameter, especially flattening any tube seams.
    Clean and get a patch ready (I cut a square from a large sheet)
    Apply rubber solution to the tube leave for 20 seconds and then spread with a finger.
    It will go tacky.
    Apply the patch and press/stretch from the center out.
    Leave to dry
    Some time later, inflate and leave (I leave it overnight)
    Any tubes still inflated in the morning are stored for use, others are assessed case by case.

    This is almost exactly what I do, except mine are in the shed and leave mine with weight on them (usually a brick) overnight. If I've no patches then I'll use an old inner tube and cut it to size


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    #18
    NeedMoreGears
    Registered Users Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭NeedMoreGears


    I don't have a limit on the number of patches - but a practical limit seems to be around eight. By then, there's usually something annoyingly wrong with the valve (sticky, bent at the top etc) that makes me dump the tube.

    I usually fix the puncture more or less straight away after I get home - find the hole, sand the tube, give the glue a minute to become tacky, apply the patch and put some weight on the tube for ten minutes, not forgetting to check the tyre. I then reinstall that tube so that (a) I can test the repair and (b) to make sure I have a new in-punctured tube as a spare.


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    #19
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,742 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Dr_Colossus wrote: »
    The most I've ever seen was 21 patches on a tube belonging to an old neighbour on the rear wheel of a high nellie. With the fully enclosed chain guard and rod brakes it was easier to patch the tube than remove the wheel so generally only the tube was replaced when the tyre was down to the canvas.

    That's the case with my bakfiets: hub gears, dynamo and roller brakes mean patching in situ is way easier than replacing the tube. I think my Brompton maybe is a little easier to patch than replace too, though it's a much closer thing.

    I leave the vulcanising solution to dry for five minutes before putting on the patch. It's probably not necessary, but it has a very high success rate compared with the shorter wait times I tried before. Making the spread of solution at least a little larger than the patch is important.

    As for cost, it is a good bit cheaper to patch, given that a tube of solution is a few euro, and a cut-your-own roll of patch material is a few euro too, and you can fix dozens of tubes with the latter, and quite a few with the former.


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    #20
    droidus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭droidus


    eeeee wrote: »
    I sand paper, glue, wait a couple of minutes, attach patch, press really hard on it for a while, then I grind a bit of chalk on the excess glue outside the patch in case it sticks to the tyre (I know this won't happen really, but I can't not do it).

    It does happen! its happened to me. The glue can stay active for quite a while after you patch, and the pressure from reinflating can stick it the tube to the inside of the tyre. Always put some chalk on after.


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    #21
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Yeah happened to me too. You'll never forget why the chalk is in the kit after that !!!!


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    #22
    eeeee
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,820 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    I knew it!
    I shall keep up my chalky ways :cool:


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    #23
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,742 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    I don't do the chalk, but it is a good idea. I think by the time the tube is back in the tyre, in my case, I've wiped down around the patch and the solution has been out of the tube about ten minutes.


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    #24
    SchrodingersCat
    Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭SchrodingersCat


    I try to save on waste by patching too. I do a couple of punctured tubes at a time. I use a water basin to find the hole through the bubbles coming out, then let it dry. Like most here, I sand the spot, in particular if its on a seam to get the surface flat. I use a cut to fit patch which is cheaper than the little patches. After applying the patch, I use a small woodworkers plastic clamp to apply pressure overnight. I also remove all air from the tube with a pump on vacuum. That's to make sure that the glue makes it into the hole.


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    #25
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,430 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    triggermortis wrote: »
    This is almost exactly what I do, except mine are in the shed and leave mine with weight on them (usually a brick) overnight. If I've no patches then I'll use an old inner tube and cut it to size

    Haven't patched a tube in years but when I was a kid I always used a basin of water.

    Pump the tube for enough air to circulate, feed it through the basin and look for bubbles of air in the water. They're usually really easy to spot.

    Mark off where the bubbles are, patch it up and then do the same thing with the patched area under water to check for air bubbles to ensure a good seal.


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    #26
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    Took the tube out, pumped it up and place it in a bucket of water. Sure enough, a little air bubble was coming out of the side of the patch every 5-6 seconds. So yeah, i made a balls of patching it!


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    #27
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    jon1981 wrote: »
    Took the tube out, pumped it up and place it in a bucket of water. Sure enough, a little air bubble was coming out of the side of the patch every 5-6 seconds. So yeah, i made a balls of patching it!
    Patch the patch?
    :D


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    #28
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Patch the patch?
    :D

    I'm actually considering it! Though i imagine overlapping patches will bring problems too?


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    #29
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    jon1981 wrote: »
    I'm actually considering it! Though i imagine overlapping patches will bring problems too?
    I'd say it could affect the elasticity of the tube and could cause it's own issues


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    #30
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    I'd say it could affect the elasticity of the tube and could cause it's own issues

    For the bin so!


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    #31
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I'm just guessing. See what someone who knows what they're talking about says :D


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