New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

Shedite27 · 17-01-2020 1:27pm

Lets play a little flip reversal....

So October 2017, Patriots are 6-2, 4 months left on Jimmy G's contract, SF call, Bill tells them where to go, Jimmy G sits behind TB for the season, Eagles beat Patriots in the Superbowl.

2018, JG needs a new contract, while TB still has 2 years left. Bill decides its JG time, Brady is available for trade, teams looking for a QB are Vikings, Buffalo and SF. The bay kid goes home.

SF 2018 were 4-12 with JG out injured, he might get them to playoffs, possibly win a wildcard, not sure that team would get past Saints or Rams last year
I'm not sure Patriots get past Kansas in the Title game (won in OT with TB), so no Superbowl in 2018

2019, SF have TB, I'd imagine they're now fairly similar so now TB's one game away from a Superbowl with SF, I'd have them even stronger favourites for the Superbowl with TB at SB while Pats are still looking to rebuild with JG in place.

Probably would have got better draft picks for TB 2 years ago than JG too.

TLDR: Pats don't win superbowl last year, but have JG and a few more draft picks for the next 10 years.

Christy42 · 17-01-2020 1:30pm

adrian522 wrote: »

He also knows nothing about football though. Check out his preseason QB rankings.

https://presnapreads.com/2019-quarterback-tiers-and-rankings/

Given some of the people who get paid to talk about football that seems largely irrelevant!

Jimmy G is in a good scheme and hasn't set the world alight. Not sure where he will end up but not a massive believer. I should say I think is a very good quarterback and has stepped up in games where has had to. Not sure he will reach one that got away level though.

Depends on what you end up with I guess. If they are terrible then obviously you will like for Jimmy but I am not sure Jimmy really promises a team Superbowls like Brady did.

Earleybird · 17-01-2020 1:35pm

It's basically been said here already but Jimmy G while promising potential could still go either way. Would we have reached 2 Bowls with him as trigger man, probably not. We don't even know how he can handle a Championship game yet. He might be a star, but regardless the Patriots have done the unthinkable with the level of sustained success over a decade, there is a potential cliff coming. Even if Jimmy is the real deal and was still on the roster, no guarantees of success. I'll always be biased towards Tom, but 2 Bowls after Jimmy cut, its worked out, regardless of what happens next.

adrian522 · 17-01-2020 1:37pm

I was more thinking the rankings for Mariota and Wilson. How anyone who watches football thinks Wilson is not a top 10 QB is beyond me. Same for Mariota and anyone who thinks he is a top 10 QB.

There are other issues as well, Watson should be way higher, Trubisky lower etc.

Christy42 · 17-01-2020 2:35pm

adrian522 wrote: »

I was more thinking the rankings for Mariota and Wilson. How anyone who watches football thinks Wilson is not a top 10 QB is beyond me. Same for Mariota and anyone who thinks he is a top 10 QB.

There are other issues as well, Watson should be way higher, Trubisky lower etc.

Sorry I replied to you because the first part of my post referenced yours.

The rest was adding to a separate Jimmy G conversation. I stopped reading the rankings when Wilson was listed out of the top 10! They are garbage. Could have made that clearer in my post.

Foxtrol · 17-01-2020 3:40pm

adrian522 wrote: »

I was more thinking the rankings for Mariota and Wilson. How anyone who watches football thinks Wilson is not a top 10 QB is beyond me. Same for Mariota and anyone who thinks he is a top 10 QB.

There are other issues as well, Watson should be way higher, Trubisky lower etc.

I disagree with him on a lot of things but to be fair a lot of it is pretty accurate. It is hard to find one of those lists that doesn't play it super safe that doesn't have a few aberrations.

Like him, Chris Simms also did a list at the start of the season that didn't have Brees or Brady in their top 5 (both closer to the back end of the top 10) and some people, including players and ex-players, lost their minds about it. In hindsight it turns out they were both right.

BoldReason · 17-01-2020 7:56pm

I don't get the love in for Jimmy G. He is competent and above average yes. But he is hardly irreplaceable.
He is a decent QB playing in a very good system. He was pretty average last week and got bailed out a few times by his receivers on pretty poor throws.

As for Cian Fahey. Russell Wilson is probably in the top 3 current QBs in the league never mind top 10. :rolleyes:

Adamcp898 · 18-01-2020 4:50pm

Sports journalists largely write articles to generate clicks, not to inform the masses with fair and balanced well-researched information.

There are just far too many of them, and too much coverage time/inches to fill, for actual news to supply it all. So you’re just left with truck loads of opinion pieces mixed in with stories to build fictional narratives, and in that respect - it pays every bit as much if not more to be contrarian than it does to be informed

TLDR; don’t get your knickers in a twist over what sports “news” sites/professionals report. It’s exactly what they’re angling for.

Podge_irl · 18-01-2020 7:13pm

BoldReason wrote: »

I don't get the love in for Jimmy G. He is competent and above average yes. But he is hardly irreplaceable.
He is a decent QB playing in a very good system. He was pretty average last week and got bailed out a few times by his receivers on pretty poor throws.

As for Cian Fahey. Russell Wilson is probably in the top 3 current QBs in the league never mind top 10. :rolleyes:

There has been a Jimmy G love-in?

19-01-2020 2:49pm

18th anniversary of the Tuck Rule Game today. (God bless it!).

StringerBell · 28-01-2020 11:51pm

Scar is retiring (again)

With Thuney gone already too I am not enjoying thoughts of our O line next year!

BizzyC · 29-01-2020 8:43am

We need a complete change on O...
We don't have the right players for Josh's scheme, we need 2-3 O lineman in the offseason and a switch to a more run heavy offence.
With the D looking in pretty good shape next season, we just need to get back to those early 2000's offensive games where half the passes were play action.

ELM327 · 29-01-2020 9:49am

I don't understand why we haven't gone that way further already.
With the caliber of our defense, an excellent game manager QB with the ability to be top notch when needed, we should be more run heavy.

I wonder if the lack of production from Michel given his pick value is part of it. I like when james white is in the game, we should run more when he is on the field to give more credence to the screen game and play actions when he's there.

Back to the good old days with kevin faulk! Without the drops/fumbles!

j8wk2feszrnpao · 30-01-2020 1:12pm

I don't rate the D that highly. We shutdown really bad teams this year, but when we played a good playoff team, it was no where near good enough.
Of course, fault lies with the offense as well, unable to string consistent drives, poor run game, and weak in the redzeone. But the D was not good enough to carry the team when needed in big games.
Devin McCourty, Kyle Van Noy, Jamie Collins, Elandon Roberts and even Shelton and Calhoun; all free agents. Given the needs on offense, can you re-sign or replace these guys sufficiently?

There's a much tougher schedule next year. A with the possibility of not having TB, I can see a big drop off.

AbusesToilets · 30-01-2020 1:40pm

We're really missing someone like Wilfork, who can stuff the run effectively up the middle. Our secondary should still be one of the best in the league, give time to our less talented pass rush to get pressure.

Earleybird · 03-02-2020 8:16am

So now we know, Jimmy isn't up to SuperBowl standard.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 03-02-2020 8:29am

Earleybird wrote: »

So now we know, Jimmy isn't up to SuperBowl standard.

Jimmy has good career ahead of him, but even if he won last night, keeping the GOAT was always the right decision.

me89 · 03-02-2020 12:18pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Jimmy has good career ahead of him, but even if he won last night, keeping the GOAT was always the right decision.

100%. Can't understand why so many question it.

Earleybird · 03-02-2020 1:24pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Jimmy has good career ahead of him, but even if he won last night, keeping the GOAT was always the right decision.

For sure. Hopefully we do it again this year...

j8wk2feszrnpao · 03-02-2020 1:32pm

Earleybird wrote: »

For sure. Hopefully we do it again this year...

Don't see us challenging this year, bar we keep Brady, resign some keys players, get quality in free agency, hit on draft picks, and Harry shows he's a true first rounder.
We were 12:4 last year, but had an easy schedule. When we played the good teams, we struggled badly, even losing at home to Miami with a bye on the line.
Obviously a good off-season can change everything, but we are at least a 1 tier down from what we saw from the Chiefs/Ravens in the AFC.
I don't fault the team/coach for the slide, we'd been in the last 8 AFC Championship games, picking that low in the draft for near a decade will have an affect.

AbusesToilets · 03-02-2020 2:06pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Don't see us challenging this year, bar we keep Brady, resign some keys players, get quality in free agency, hit on draft picks, and Harry shows he's a true first rounder.
We were 12:4 last year, but had an easy schedule. When we played the good teams, we struggled badly, even losing at home to Miami with a bye on the line.
Obviously a good off-season can change everything, but we are at least a 1 tier down from what we saw from the Chiefs/Ravens in the AFC.
I don't fault the team/coach for the slide, we'd been in the last 8 AFC Championship games, picking that low in the draft for near a decade will have an affect.

Be interesting to see if Brady attends OTAs this season. Lack of rapport with his receivers was a problem all year, and I'd put some of that on him.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 03-02-2020 3:23pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Be interesting to see if Brady attends OTAs this season. Lack of rapport with his receivers was a problem all year, and I'd put some of that on him.

We have to sign Brady first!

I don't think it mattered all that much. They were still dropping passes and in the wrong spot late in the year. It's a talent issue IMO.

eagle eye · 03-02-2020 5:39pm

Earleybird wrote:

So now we know, Jimmy isn't up to SuperBowl standard.

Well we really don't. That team is set up to run the ball and have a game manager at QB.

Earleybird · 03-02-2020 9:54pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Well we really don't. That team is set up to run the ball and have a game manager at QB.

And when called upon should be able to deliver tight passes. Which he didn't. So we really do.

StringerBell · 03-02-2020 10:18pm

Jimmy made some really good throws last night, I don't think you could draw a conclusion either way tbh.

Foxtrol · 03-02-2020 11:00pm

Earleybird wrote: »

And when called upon should be able to deliver tight passes. Which he didn't. So we really do.

He's made those tight passes all season and his stats while playing from behind were also great all year. He did that during his first full season as a starter and while coming off a knee injury (which many QBs, including Brady, are slow to return to form after).

No one can say he didn't have a poor 4th quarter but it is very knee-jerk write him off as not being capable of getting to Super Bowl standard based on what you saw last night. A play or call or two the other way and he'd have another ring.

Earleybird · 04-02-2020 12:09am

Foxtrol wrote: »

He's made those tight passes all season and his stats while playing from behind were also great all year. He did that during his first full season as a starter and while coming off a knee injury (which many QBs, including Brady, are slow to return to form after).

No one can say he didn't have a poor 4th quarter but it is very knee-jerk write him off as not being capable of getting to Super Bowl standard based on what you saw last night. A play or call or two the other way and he'd have another ring.

But this is the whole point. I don't disagree with your points, when he first landed in SF he went on a spree of winning drives. He has a decent season this year and they get to the playoffs. He does his job and they get to Miami. He's asked to execute a minute number of throws at the moment of most pressure. He was visibally forcing his throws, his receivers helping him for the most part and then in the 4th he fell apart. Its a fine margin, but bottom line the play or two the other way didn't happen because he couldn't handle it. Hence, my point.

Foxtrol · 04-02-2020 1:40am

Earleybird wrote: »

But this is the whole point. I don't disagree with your points, when he first landed in SF he went on a spree of winning drives. He has a decent season this year and they get to the playoffs. He does his job and they get to Miami. He's asked to execute a minute number of throws at the moment of most pressure. He was visibally forcing his throws, his receivers helping him for the most part and then in the 4th he fell apart. Its a fine margin, but bottom line the play or two the other way didn't happen because he couldn't handle it. Hence, my point.

I don't know how you can agree with my points and claim:

Earleybird wrote: »

So now we know, Jimmy isn't up to SuperBowl standard.

Even if you question Jimmy's performances over the first 3 quarters, he did better than Mahomes during that period. Are you also writing off Mahomes as not being Super Bowl standard because he was poorer for more of the game or is it completely forgotten because of a few 4th quarter plays (like selecting MVP)?

Plenty of the greatest players have lost numerous Super Bowls or haven't performed well in them and their team still wins. Does that make them all not up to your Super Bowl standard?

eagle eye · 04-02-2020 2:06am

Earleybird wrote:

And when called upon should be able to deliver tight passes. Which he didn't. So we really do.

Offensive line was a huge issue, how many incompletions were due to pressure? Or how many incompletions occurred when he wasn't under pressure?

Earleybird · 04-02-2020 2:26am

Foxtrol wrote: »

I don't know how you can agree with my points and claim:

Even if you question Jimmy's performances over the first 3 quarters, he did better than Mahomes during that period. Are you also writing off Mahomes as not being Super Bowl standard because he was poorer for more of the game or is it completely forgotten because of a few 4th quarter plays (like selecting MVP)?

Plenty of the greatest players have lost numerous Super Bowls or haven't performed well in them and their team still wins. Does that make them all not up to your Super Bowl standard?

Quite simply, because he wasn't able to do it on the biggest stage. There's only one game that matters every year, you don't get another bite the following Sunday. So you need to have skills and handle pressure. There's no doubting he has skills, we see it regularly (as we do with 30 other QBs any given Sunday). But for me he failed the test of nerve. That's the barometer for SuperBowl standard.

Mahomes had his own struggles, the nerves perhaps playing a part too, and/or a bit loose when chasing, but margins are tough. If they'd lost he goes from taking the blame to putting 2 solid, quick drives together to be MVP. That's the game. Live or die by making a play at the right time with all the chips on the table. Pained me to view it as a Pats fan, but he proved his strength of character, especially considering he had been poor. Jimmy did the opposite. Its a harsh microscope.

Plenty of top players didn't perform at their best in SuperBowls, for various reasons I guess. I was just interested in Jimmy because it irks me somewhat, the narrative that, some sort of star was traded and here he is competing for a ring.

New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

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