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James Corden and Straight Actors in Gay Roles

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  • 10-12-2020 12:07pm
    #1
    LineOfBeauty
    Registered Users Posts: 2,211 ✭✭✭


    Just came across this article this morning in The Guardian and thought it was an interesting read.

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/dec/09/james-corden-the-prom-netflix-proves-straight-actors-playing-gay-should-think-twice

    Obviously the title is a bit tongue in cheek and intentionally over the top and the article is largely written in a humorous manner. Though it does raise some good points I feel. While I'm not 100% against straight actors in gay roles (or vice versa) I do feel like the director, casting and producers should ask themselves first if there's a gay actor that they feel better suits the role available than a straight actor. And then the straight actor, if given the role, should ask if they are capable of playing such a role and maybe to try to get a better sense for the character they are to portray rather than, in this instance James Corden, doing a caricature of gay stereotypes that have largely been eliminated from mainstream representation for at least the last few decades.


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    #2
    Zookey123
    Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭Zookey123


    LineOfBeauty wrote: »
    Just came across this article this morning in The Guardian and thought it was an interesting read.

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/dec/09/james-corden-the-prom-netflix-proves-straight-actors-playing-gay-should-think-twice

    Obviously the title is a bit tongue in cheek and intentionally over the top and the article is largely written in a humorous manner. Though it does raise some good points I feel. While I'm not 100% against straight actors in gay roles (or vice versa) I do feel like the director, casting and producers should ask themselves first if there's a gay actor that they feel better suits the role available than a straight actor. And then the straight actor, if given the role, should ask if they are capable of playing such a role and maybe to try to get a better sense for the character they are to portray rather than, in this instance James Corden, doing a caricature of gay stereotypes that have largely been eliminated from mainstream representation for at least the last few decades.

    I guess the obvious reply to this is "isn't the whole point of acting to play someone your not? "and another good one is "sure don't gay actors play straight characters all the time and should the same rules apply to them too?". Caricatures are used for comedic purposes all the time. Comedy is subjective and perhaps with time the " gay caricature" might become less funny at such a time it will stop being used. Dictating what can or cannot be said/used however is not a complete solution to any problem.


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    #3
    mr.anonymous
    Registered Users Posts: 481 ✭✭mr.anonymous


    Zookey123 wrote: »
    I guess the obvious reply to this is "isn't the whole point of acting to play someone your not? "and another good one is "sure don't gay actors play straight characters all the time and should the same rules apply to them too?"...

    So give people jobs based on competence like we always have?


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    #4
    Zookey123
    Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭Zookey123


    mr.anonymous wrote: »
    So give people jobs based on competence like we always have?

    Yes along with experience i.e. best person for the job gets the job. However suggesting this is how things are done or always have been done is just not true. I doubt we would ever see James Cordon on our screen if people were given jobs on competency alone. Multiple other factors are always at play especially in media positions. Nepotism, political affiliations etc.. have dictated roles long before the LGBT community started asking for more exposure.


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    #5
    LineOfBeauty
    Registered Users Posts: 2,211 ✭✭✭LineOfBeauty


    Zookey123 wrote: »
    I guess the obvious reply to this is "isn't the whole point of acting to play someone your not? "and another good one is "sure don't gay actors play straight characters all the time and should the same rules apply to them too?". Caricatures are used for comedic purposes all the time. Comedy is subjective and perhaps with time the " gay caricature" might become less funny at such a time it will stop being used. Dictating what can or cannot be said/used however is not a complete solution to any problem.

    It's not, though I think the problem in this case is Ryan Murphy's protagonist unintentionally ends up ridiculing the (assumed) target market for this movie and he ends up being far more homophobic than the actual homophobes the film portrays.


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    #6
    Seamai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,250 ✭✭✭Seamai


    From my gay viewpoint I have zero issues with straight actors playing gay characters, if someone thinks that only gay actors should play characters then only straight actors should play straight characters (if that happened a lot of actors would find very little work). Straight people virtue signalling on my behalf really gets on my wick, why not ask us what offends us before clutching your pearls.
    As someone above said, they're acting, that's what they do.

    What does offend me though is the portrayal of so many gay men as camp and no reality show is complete without at least one screaming queen. I'm offended when someone like James Patrice appears on my TV screen camper than a pantomime dame and not remotely funny or intelligent but hey someone in RTÉ who is hell bent on being woke thinks they're really pushing the inclusion button.


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    #7
    Barna77
    Registered Users Posts: 3,271 ✭✭✭Barna77


    Right, let's call for a Brokeback Mountain remake...


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    #8
    LineOfBeauty
    Registered Users Posts: 2,211 ✭✭✭LineOfBeauty


    Barna77 wrote: »
    Right, let's call for a Brokeback Mountain remake...

    I know I haven't suggested that, and I know nobody else has suggested that, so I'm not sure who that is aimed at.

    I think you'll find there's a bit of a difference between Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhall giving career best performances in a tender gorgeously intimate film to James Corden putting in a display where one writer described it as making him feel "embarrassed to be gay" and another saying it's the worst acting performance of the 21st century.


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    #9
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    LineOfBeauty wrote: »
    Though it does raise some good points I feel.


    It doesn't.

    The thing about acting is it's a person pretending to be someone else. If we need gay actors to play gay characters then we need actual killers, rapists, aliens and so on.

    It's just make believe - leave it the fúck alone. If the portrayal sucks balls (or doesn't as the case may be) then turn off the film.

    That's really all the action anyone needs to take!


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    #10
    LineOfBeauty
    Registered Users Posts: 2,211 ✭✭✭LineOfBeauty


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    It doesn't.

    The thing about acting is it's a person pretending to be someone else. If we need gay actors to play gay characters then we need actual killers, rapists, aliens and so on.

    It's just make believe - leave it the fúck alone. If the portrayal sucks balls (or doesn't as the case may be) then turn off the film.

    That's really all the action anyone needs to take!

    Probably should have titled the thread "James Corden and troubling stereotypes portrayed in films"


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    #11
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    LineOfBeauty wrote: »
    Probably should have titled the thread "James Corden and troubling stereotypes portrayed in films"


    Actually i've changed my mind, anything that results in having less Corden on screen i'm wholeheartedly behind!


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    #12
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Sure gay actors can play straight but many still feel the need to be closeted so as not to restrict the roles they can play.

    If it's true that being openly gay would limit the amount of Hollywood roles you're offered (which I strongly believe it would) then I think this inequality should be addressed by limiting gay roles to gay people.

    Separately, I think there's issues with a straight person performing a gay role by approximating what they think camp is.


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    #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The first question I have there is "why?"

    The second question is - do you think how a person plays a role comes from him/her/it alone? Or do they tend to do it after consultation with all kinds of people and under all kinds of guidance?


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    #14
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,367 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Can't stand James Corden, I find his screen persona (in everything I have seen him in) has absolutely no redeeming qualities and watching him for any length of time makes me irrationally angry :pac:

    But, that's beside the point. In a TV show or movie I really don't care who portrays a gay character as long as they do a good performance. Their job as a performer is to convince the audience that their portrayal of their role is authentic, if they do that then job done as far as I am concerned.

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #15
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Sure gay actors can play straight but many still feel the need to be closeted so as not to restrict the roles they can play.

    If it's true that being openly gay would limit the amount of Hollywood roles you're offered (which I strongly believe it would) then I think this inequality should be addressed by limiting gay roles to gay people.

    Separately, I think there's issues with a straight person performing a gay role by approximating what they think camp is.


    If anything I think it would get them more roles. It's a struggle to talk about and gain popularity. Being gay was nearly a requirement to get a job in RTE for a while.

    I can agree with people badly using stereotypes other than for the purpose of comedy can be a problem.

    If only gay people can play gay people can we get an agreement that only White straight men can play James Bond? Can we get Hamilton the musical cancelled? I don't agree with the point I just made, it's satire to show how ridiculous the situation is.


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    #16
    Beltby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 253 ✭✭Beltby


    Who would you have cast as the main character in 'My Left Foot'?


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    #17
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Beltby wrote: »
    Who would you have cast as the main character in 'My Left Foot'?


    The viewer puts their left foot up on a footrest in front of the screen.


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    #18
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    Straight actors should absolutely play gay characters.

    James Corden however was bordering on a hate crime.


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    #19
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    GarIT wrote: »
    If anything I think it would get them more roles. It's a struggle to talk about and gain popularity. Being gay was nearly a requirement to get a job in RTE for a while.

    I can agree with people badly using stereotypes other than for the purpose of comedy can be a problem.

    If only gay people can play gay people can we get an agreement that only White straight men can play James Bond? Can we get Hamilton the musical cancelled? I don't agree with the point I just made, it's satire to show how ridiculous the situation is.

    I may be completely wrong on this but are there any openly gay actors headlining Hollywood romcoms?

    I don't think being gay is a plus unless you're auditioning for a Ryan Murphy production to be honest. I think it'd either be a neutral or a negative.

    There's a reason these considerations only apply to historically marginalized groups. You may not agree with these reasons but they are there.


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    #20
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    I may be completely wrong on this but are there any openly gay actors headlining Hollywood romcoms?

    I don't think being gay is a plus unless you're auditioning for a Ryan Murphy production to be honest. I think it'd either be a neutral or a negative.

    There's a reason these considerations only apply to historically marginalized groups. You may not agree with these reasons but they are there.


    Schitt's Creek if they counts.


    I understand the reasoning behind it but don't agree with the method. If there was a way to police discrimination I'd be totally for it. I don't think there is unless it's blatant. But I disagree with using restrictive countermeasures that impeed other people to try to achieve some sort of unfairness balance, I think that just causes division.


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    #21
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    I just watched the trailer and laughed out loud after reading this thread first.

    The movie itself is as camp as Christmas. If there was ever a movie to have a stereotypical camp gay man (which do exist) it's this one. If Corden done camp bad as in simply badly acted well that's another issue, but I'll never know because I can't think of a genre of movie I'd be less likely to watch. If it had a straight acting gay man type, say Jason Stratum type, that would be completely inappropriate and that more litigate a complainant than the one the Guardian journalist is making a drama out of in typical Guardian fashion.

    Even if his observations were valid the idea that in this day and age the public need to be taught lessons by Hollywood in how gay men behave outwardly is stuff of the 1990's. Gay mens personalities are not all the same and everyone knows that by now. There are gay characters in every soap these days, so many people are out that don't match the stereotype so I don't see any issue here at all.


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    #22
    Tig98
    Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭Tig98


    GarIT wrote: »
    Schitt's Creek if they counts.

    Well Dan Levy, who plays David Rose, is also the shows creator. He wanted the characters of the show to be completely unfazed by lgbt+ to show what society could be like.

    I don't care what sexuality an actor is as long as they do a good job. I do think gay actors rarely get past gay characters in main roles, though. The only one I can think of is that blonde guy in how I met your mother


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    #23
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Tig98 wrote: »
    Well Dan Levy, who plays David Rose, is also the shows creator. He wanted the characters of the show to be completely unfazed by lgbt+ to show what society could be like.

    I don't care what sexuality an actor is as long as they do a good job. I do think gay actors rarely get past gay characters in main roles, though. The only one I can think of is that blonde guy in how I met your mother


    Sheldon in the big bang theory.


    I've read 1 in people are gay a while ago, could be higher now with more people feeling comfortable coming out. I don't think gay people are underrepresented in TV tbh.


    Maybe they are less represented in Film, there could be logcial reasons for that. Someone mentioned rom coms, an important part of that genre is relatability, and they are usually tageted at women. And budget is usually based on potential earnings. So if a straight rom com targets 50% of people and a gay rom com targets 5% of people, it's expected that the budgets would be lower, and therefore the quality and quantity.


    I've a few professional actors in the family and I'd definitely say gay people are overrepresented in the industry from my time on sets or at events. Not so much in front of the camera roles though.


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    #24
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    Tig98 wrote: »
    Well Dan Levy, who plays David Rose, is also the shows creator. He wanted the characters of the show to be completely unfazed by lgbt+ to show what society could be like.

    I don't care what sexuality an actor is as long as they do a good job. I do think gay actors rarely get past gay characters in main roles, though. The only one I can think of is that blonde guy in how I met your mother

    That was brilliant, the complete opposite and Neil Patrick Harris played the part so well.


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    #25
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    PC has gone way over board. The audience will choose what should or should not happen in the casting of actors or actresses. They are actors after all paid to act. If they aren't any good the takings will incourage the production company to choose other wise next time.


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    #26
    Stihl waters
    Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭Stihl waters


    Corden is a horrendous actor no matter what he's in


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    #27
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,068 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Seamai wrote: »
    From my gay viewpoint I have zero issues with straight actors playing gay characters, if someone thinks that only gay actors should play characters then only straight actors should play straight characters (if that happened a lot of actors would find very little work). Straight people virtue signalling on my behalf really gets on my wick, why not ask us what offends us before clutching your pearls.
    As someone above said, they're acting, that's what they do.

    What does offend me though is the portrayal of so many gay men as camp and no reality show is complete without at least one screaming queen. I'm offended when someone like James Patrice appears on my TV screen camper than a pantomime dame and not remotely funny or intelligent but hey someone in RTÉ who is hell bent on being woke thinks they're really pushing the inclusion button.


    What's wrong with being camp? A lot of gay men are camp. Nothing wrong with that.


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    #28
    3DataModem
    Registered Users Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    Stihl waters wrote: »
    Corden is a horrendous actor no matter what he's in

    He's the only Tony award winner in the case, so can't be that bad.


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    #29
    Stihl waters
    Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭Stihl waters


    3DataModem wrote: »
    He's the only Tony award winner in the case, so can't be that bad.

    My opinion only, tony award or not I can't watch anything he's in, good job I'm not on the committee for the tonys I suppose


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    #30
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    GarIT wrote: »
    Sheldon in the big bang theory.


    I've read 1 in people are gay a while ago, could be higher now with more people feeling comfortable coming out. I don't think gay people are underrepresented in TV tbh.


    Maybe they are less represented in Film, there could be logcial reasons for that. Someone mentioned rom coms, an important part of that genre is relatability, and they are usually tageted at women. And budget is usually based on potential earnings. So if a straight rom com targets 50% of people and a gay rom com targets 5% of people, it's expected that the budgets would be lower, and therefore the quality and quantity.


    I've a few professional actors in the family and I'd definitely say gay people are overrepresented in the industry from my time on sets or at events. Not so much in front of the camera roles though.

    Well we are talking about front of camera roles really.

    It's not just romcoms. There's a Hollywood actor who in the last few years is becoming a go to action guy who I know for a fact is gay. This actor is relatively regularly photographed "dating" up and coming female actresses. Now maybe he doesn't want to be open about his sexuality for personal reasons but seems far more likely he believes it would harm his career.

    Then there's that Luke Evans guy who tried to go back into the closet when he started becomijg Hollywood famous even though he'd been completely open about his sexuality while being a jobbing actor in the UK.

    There is no way there is a level playing field for gay and straight actors when it comes to non-gay roles.


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    #31
    Zookey123
    Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭Zookey123


    3DataModem wrote: »
    He's the only Tony award winner in the case, so can't be that bad.

    Since when did Tony award = good actor? James Corden is not a good actor. He's an even worse comedian though.


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