What can I do about a cold and draughty house?

Biffoland · 21-01-2021 10:05pm #1

I bought a house last year that’s cold and draughty all year round. I have huge issues with noise coming in from outside and can’t keep the place warm. If it’s very cold outside then it usually cools down after 20 minutes after the heat goes off.

I have trickle vent windows which I think is the source of the problem. The house and windows are about 15 years old. From what I understand if I replace the windows then the next windows also require trickle vents.

What’s the best way forward with this? An engineer, an air tightness test or something completely different.

BryanF · 21-01-2021 10:34pm

Can you confirm the construction type?

suggest the trickles events are not the main problem. It’ll probably turn out to be lots of the other external envelope material junctions in the house and their combined uncontrolled air-leakage. Along with insulation that’s missing or non-existent in places.

By all means change the windows, but as part of an overall upgrade of the envelope. Check out the following ‘thermal imaging camera’ options.

https://tectogizmo.com/4-ways-to-turn-your-cell-phone-into-a-thermal-camera/

Just wait for a cold night and experiment/ research/ record where the heat loss is occurring, that will tell you where the air/leakage and insulation isn’t complete.

Biffoland · 21-01-2021 11:00pm

BryanF wrote: »

Can you confirm the construction type?

suggest the trickles events are not the main problem. It’ll probably turn out to be lots of the other external envelope material junctions in the house and their combined uncontrolled air-leakage. Along with insulation that’s missing or non-existent in places.

By all means change the windows, but as part of an overall upgrade of the envelope. Check out the following ‘thermal imaging camera’ options.

https://tectogizmo.com/4-ways-to-turn-your-cell-phone-into-a-thermal-camera/

Just wait for a cold night and experiment/ research/ record where the heat loss is occurring, that will tell you where the air/leakage and insulation isn’t complete.

It’s a mid-terrace, if that’s what you mean.

What’s the best route to get a professional assessment? How much on average would it be to upgrade the envelope?

Bass Reeves · 21-01-2021 11:12pm

No house build in the last 20 years should cool down that fast. You should get a professional to check it out. If mid terrace this is especially true. What BER rating is your house

You may be able to retro fit new vents to the windows. Some trickle vents have open and shut visors on them if your have see if you shut them what effect this will have on your rooms.

Replacing windows is an expensive fix do you want to be sure the Windows are you he problem and replacement is the best answer

Deco99 · 22-01-2021 2:36am

Recently purchased a 1960s bungalow. Suspended floors. We took up floorboards and insulated with metac. Stripped the walls and put up insulated plasterboard on all exterior walls and replastered. Triple glazed windows installed. Re plumbed. New oil boiler and new hot tank. Currently temperature outside says 2 degrees and it's 17.2 degrees in bedroom now @1.30 at night. Heating was turned off before bed at 22.30. room was maybe 20/21 degrees at the time. Is that alot of heat loss?

Deco99 · 22-01-2021 6:17am

Deco99 wrote: »

Recently purchased a 1960s bungalow. Suspended floors. We took up floorboards and insulated with metac. Stripped the walls and put up insulated plasterboard on all exterior walls and replastered. Triple glazed windows installed. Re plumbed. New oil boiler and new hot tank. Currently temperature outside says 2 degrees and it's 17.2 degrees in bedroom now @1.30 at night. Heating was turned off before bed at 22.30. room was maybe 20/21 degrees at the time. Is that alot of heat loss?

Got to 15.5 degrees @ 5.20 but there's a hard frost outside

BryanF · 22-01-2021 11:54am

Biffoland wrote: »

It’s a mid-terrace, if that’s what you mean.

What’s the best route to get a professional assessment? How much on average would it be to upgrade the envelope?

Can’t give you an average. Typically council mid terrace, I would be expecting 7-10k for windows/doors and 7-10k for external wall insulation, plus maybe another 5 for scaffolding and a few grand for general builder to pick up the gaps in others scope, for example stripping some roof tiles to get insulation overlapping.

Decide on your budget for upgrades, and consider getting an air-leakage/ heat loss survey, at least you’ll know the story then.

EVGR · 22-01-2021 1:20pm

I feel your pain! If your house is 15 years old, it should have double glazing. It may not be the insulation properties of the actual glass that’s the problem, but how it’s fitted or gaps and cracks around it. The way to find out is to get a heat loss survey. Then you would get an idea if it’s lack of insulation or air leakage that’s the problem.
Can you close the trickle vents on the window? Do you have additional wall vents?

Biffoland · 22-01-2021 2:52pm

Yes, the trickle vents have never actually been opened as I feel there’s constant ventilation from whatever deficiencies are in the construction.

I’m just looking for the next step forward. So a heat loss survey and then bring those results to a builder. Is that my best bet?

Bass Reeves · 22-01-2021 7:11pm

Biffoland wrote: »

Yes, the trickle vents have never actually been opened as I feel there’s constant ventilation from whatever deficiencies are in the construction.

I’m just looking for the next step forward. So a heat loss survey and then bring those results to a builder. Is that my best bet?

It will depend on where your heat loss is coming from. If it's due to poor insulation in wall and attic it might be better going to a specialist in insulation.

If the air tightness is the issue then putting on external I insulation and re insulating the attic may be the answer

MicktheMan · 22-01-2021 7:39pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If the air tightness is the issue then putting on external I insulation and re insulating the attic may be the answer

No offence intended or perhaps it is a typo. I'm not sure where this idea is coming from as I see it said more often but generally speaking, adding ewi and / or attic insulation have little to do with dealing with air tightness weaknesses. Pure marketing guff.

Technophobe · 24-01-2021 11:55pm

Deco99 wrote: »

Got to 15.5 degrees @ 5.20 but there's a hard frost outside

Have you no thermostat to kick heating back on when it falls to certain temp??
Drop of 6 degrees seems quite a lot to me.
Have you done much to house?

Deco99 · 25-01-2021 6:23am

Technophobe wrote: »

Have you no thermostat to kick heating back on when it falls to certain temp??
Drop of 6 degrees seems quite a lot to me.
Have you done much to house?

There is but it's in hallway right next to the where hot water tank is which has gaps to the under floor, also that rad appears to be not heating fully so the area with the thermostat never reaches as high temperature. Still working on house so will get to regulating the thermostat.

Work done insulation wise.

- triple glazed windows
- insulated plasterboard 50mm on all external walls and reskimmed
- took up suspended floorboards and insulated between the joists before putting a ply subfloor and laminate
- new oil condensing boiler and hot tank.
- added some metac to the attic. Another roll and entire attic would have two layers of insulation.

The current weather is maybe not the ideal time to test? It's -1/-3 outside.

kerry_man15 · 25-01-2021 7:02am

Bulldoze it?

Pawwed Rig · 25-01-2021 7:35am

BryanF wrote: »

Can’t give you an average. Typically council mid terrace, I would be expecting 7-10k for windows/doors and 7-10k for external wall insulation, plus maybe another 5 for scaffolding and a few grand for general builder to pick up the gaps in others scope, for example stripping some roof tiles to get insulation overlapping.

Decide on your budget for upgrades, and consider getting an air-leakage/ heat loss survey, at least you’ll know the story then.

Would there be any grants available for this work?

BryanF · 25-01-2021 3:30pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Would there be any grants available for this work?

Some.

OP did you do any air-tightness works with the window/floor/wall upgrades?

Technophobe · 25-01-2021 9:18pm

Deco99 wrote: »

There is but it's in hallway right next to the where hot water tank is which has gaps to the under floor, also that rad appears to be not heating fully so the area with the thermostat never reaches as high temperature. Still working on house so will get to regulating the thermostat.

Work done insulation wise.

- triple glazed windows
- insulated plasterboard 50mm on all external walls and reskimmed
- took up suspended floorboards and insulated between the joists before putting a ply subfloor and laminate
- new oil condensing boiler and hot tank.
- added some metac to the attic. Another roll and entire attic would have two layers of insulation.

The current weather is maybe not the ideal time to test? It's -1/-3 outside.

Sounds like you have done a fair bit..where is the thermostat located? Is it close to a window?
I don't understand the bit re thermostat as once it hits a predefined (by you) temp, it can kick back in..so even of not accurately recording, then just adjust it for other room requirements

Deco99 · 26-01-2021 1:52am

Technophobe wrote: »

Sounds like you have done a fair bit..where is the thermostat located? Is it close to a window?
I don't understand the bit re thermostat as once it hits a predefined (by you) temp, it can kick back in..so even of not accurately recording, then just adjust it for other room requirements

Thermostat in hallway. Radiotor in hallway is a little weak too, just seems that area never warms up so the stat never heats up

Lots of work. More to do. The last few days have been particularly cold too. But I'm just wondering what an expected drop in temperature overnight in a well insulated home would be

Car99 · 26-01-2021 2:06am

Deco99 wrote: »

Thermostat in hallway. Radiotor in hallway is a little weak too, just seems that area never warms up so the stat never heats up

Lots of work. More to do. The last few days have been particularly cold too. But I'm just wondering what an expected drop in temperature overnight in a well insulated home would be

Our house built 2006 , two storey 2500sq ft , has oil heating the radiators on for one hour in the morning 7 till 8 and one hour in the evening 8 till 9 . Stove lit in living area at about 5 or 6 pm filled with one scuttle of coal and that's it. The house is always around 18 to 20 degrees. In the room kitchen dining tv/ sun room it closer to 24 all evening while the stove is lit.

Deco99 · 26-01-2021 8:42am

Car99 wrote: »

Our house built 2006 , two storey 2500sq ft , has oil heating the radiators on for one hour in the morning 7 till 8 and one hour in the evening 8 till 9 . Stove lit in living area at about 5 or 6 pm filled with one scuttle of coal and that's it. The house is always around 18 to 20 degrees. In the room kitchen dining tv/ sun room it closer to 24 all evening while the stove is lit.

Would that be any differentbkast few days extreme cold? Either way I still have work to do to keep the heat in. I've a number of sealing jobs to do yet but could get one of the thermal leak detectors if still dropping to see from where

Car99 · 26-01-2021 11:47am

Deco99 wrote: »

Would that be any differentbkast few days extreme cold? Either way I still have work to do to keep the heat in. I've a number of sealing jobs to do yet but could get one of the thermal leak detectors if still dropping to see from where

Not noticeably different.

paul-2008 · 26-01-2021 12:03pm

Car99 wrote: »

Our house built 2006 , two storey 2500sq ft , has oil heating the radiators on for one hour in the morning 7 till 8 and one hour in the evening 8 till 9 . Stove lit in living area at about 5 or 6 pm filled with one scuttle of coal and that's it. The house is always around 18 to 20 degrees. In the room kitchen dining tv/ sun room it closer to 24 all evening while the stove is lit.

that must be built to a very high spec for 2006 - impressive figures there for 2 hours heating a day in -4 temps

Deco99 · 26-01-2021 12:29pm

Has anyone tried the thermal heat detectors?

Car99 · 26-01-2021 2:14pm

paul-2008 wrote: »

that must be built to a very high spec for 2006 - impressive figures there for 2 hours heating a day in -4 temps

It was a self build. The house is story and half so big roof area. Not really high spec just what was done was done as well as I could manage.
I did the roof/ ceiling insulation myself, I put 100m king span in between the rafters and ceiling joists as required and sealed edges and any gaps with expanding foam. Foil back plasterboard on any ceiling area exposed to outside roof.
100mm block cavity pumped with beads.
I sealed around all windows and doors with expanding foam myself prior to plastering.
Windows are Munster Joinery double glazed pvc with trickle vents . The windows I had to adjust eccentric pins to get them all to seal properly .
100mm king span put in before concrete floors poured.
I put an insert stove into the sitting room a while back where there used to be an open fire and surprisingly that made a big difference to heat loss out of that side of the house even though that fire is only lit a few times a year the stove shuts off the chimney. A chimney balloon would have been cheaper but the insert stove looks better and is more fuel efficient when the fire is used.
I think the key to getting insulation right is doing it yourself and paying attention to detail while doing it. In ireland most tradesmen in my experience want the job done as quick as possible, cash in hand and out the door never to be seen again. Quality control is down to you because they dont care.
Getting rid of the little draughts adds up too.

paul-2008 · 26-01-2021 2:24pm

Car99 wrote: »

It was a self build. The house is story and half so big roof area. Not really high spec just what was done was done as well as I could manage.
I did the roof/ ceiling insulation myself, I put 100m king span in between the rafters and ceiling joists as required and sealed edges and any gaps with expanding foam. Foil back plasterboard on any ceiling area exposed to outside roof.
100mm block cavity pumped with beads.
I sealed around all windows and doors with expanding foam myself prior to plastering.
Windows are Munster Joinery double glazed pvc with trickle vents . The windows I had to adjust eccentric pins to get them all to seal properly .
100mm king span put in before concrete floors poured.
I put an insert stove into the sitting room a while back where there used to be an open fire and surprisingly that made a big difference to heat loss out of that side of the house even though that fire is only lit a few times a year the stove shuts off the chimney. A chimney balloon would have been cheaper but the insert stove looks better and is more fuel efficient when the fire is used.
I think the key to getting insulation right is doing it yourself and paying attention to detail while doing it. In ireland most tradesmen in my experience want the job done as quick as possible, cash in hand and out the door never to be seen again. Quality control is down to you because they dont care.
Getting rid of the little draughts adds up too.

Just goes to show that attention to detail is hugely important when it comes to insulation. Sorry for hijacking thread OP!!

Deco99 · 26-01-2021 6:58pm

I've an open fireplace sitting idle. That's a killer so. What's the cost of pumping the cavities? Big benefit quickly?

Two layers of cosy wrap in attic. Mixture of the original stuff, some Metac which is higher u value. Bottom layer is 100mm and top is 150mm. Second layer everywhere except over the hallway. Need to get another roll.

It was mentioned using the Kingspan in the attic, I assume any pipes or wiring is pulled through this tightly as possible. If expanding foam all round that and foil back ceiling board. I can imagine it being fairly well sealed... Can the cosy wrap compare to that or is it useless?

Deco99 · 26-01-2021 6:59pm

Deco99 wrote: »

I've an open fireplace sitting idle. That's a killer so. What's the cost of pumping the cavities? Big benefit quickly?

Two layers of cosy wrap in attic. Mixture of the original stuff, some Metac which is higher u value. Bottom layer is 100mm and top is 150mm. Second layer everywhere except over the hallway. Need to get another roll.

It was mentioned using the Kingspan in the attic, I assume any pipes or wiring is pulled through this tightly as possible. If expanding foam all round that and foil back ceiling board. I can imagine it being fairly well sealed... Can the cosy wrap compare to that or is it useless?

Loft roll/insulation roll if cosy wrap is the wrong term

What can I do about a cold and draughty house?

Comments