George H W Bush has died

buried · 02-12-2018 12:01am

The towers fell because the f**kers behind it knew what they were doing. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed studied mechanical engineering in university. The architecture design for the towers were not designed for a huge blast or large scale structural fault to keep them up. Khalid most probably knew this. In the early 90's he was also behind the first plot to blow up the twin towers with the car bomb underneath one of the towers, hoping one of them would collapse into the other.
That plot failed. His second one didn't. They knew well what they were doing. That is the shocking aspect of it but that is what it is

tuxy · 02-12-2018 12:01am

Try highly pressurised kerosene and she how different it behaves.

Skylinehead · 02-12-2018 12:03am

9/11 theories, oh no.

No.

nullzero · 02-12-2018 12:05am

buried wrote: »

The towers fell because the f**kers behind it knew what they were doing. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed studied mechanical engineering in university. The architecture design for the towers were not designed for a huge blast or large scale structural fault to keep them up. Khalid most probably knew this. In the early 90's he was also behind the first plot to blow up the twin towers with the car bomb underneath one of the towers, hoping one of them would collapse into the other.

The thing is they didn't collapse into each other, they fell into their own footprints.
There are conflicting notions on this issue amongst people more qualified than us, but it is far from the only thing that should raise eyebrows in relation to 9-11.

Surely somebody should have been held to account for the fact that the attacks occurred at the very least, a lot of people suffered on that day and as a result of that day and a hell of a lot of money was made as a result of it also.

tuxy · 02-12-2018 12:07am

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Because I have often burned stuff with kerosene but it never exploded. I dont claim to be Aeronautic or civil engineer, I am more BioMedical with some chemistry.

Had to google this as I'm no expert but commercial jet fuel tanks store the fuel at 45 psi. Can you imagine the difference this makes? It's highly explosive at this kind of pressure.

buried · 02-12-2018 12:11am

Nixonbot wrote: »

9/11 theories, oh no.

No.

Bound to happen on today of all days, good late night Bush family legacy discussion!

endacl · 02-12-2018 12:13am

Sciprio wrote: »

I will not shed a tear for a terrorist who killed inocent people and then then gave birth to a terrorist just to send innocent people to their deaths just to compete or surpass their daddies unfinished business.

Jaysus. He was some man for one man!

:pac:

buried · 02-12-2018 12:13am

nullzero wrote: »

The thing is they didn't collapse into each other, they fell into their own footprints.
There are conflicting notions on this issue amongst people more qualified than us, but it is far from the only thing that should raise eyebrows in relation to 9-11.

Surely somebody should have been held to account for the fact that the attacks occurred at the very least, a lot of people suffered on that day and as a result of that day and a hell of a lot of money was made as a result of it also.

That wasn't the plan on 9/11, the plan to collapse one into the other was the earlier attack in 1993 when a car bomb was placed underneath one of the towers. KSM was the mastermind behind that plot also

tuxy · 02-12-2018 12:15am

endacl wrote: »

Jaysus. He was some man for one man!

:pac:

Male are the ones to give birth in half reptilian people

nullzero · 02-12-2018 12:16am

buried wrote: »

Bound to happen on today of all days, good late night Bush family legacy discussion!

Didn't the Bush families good friends the Bin Laden family get flown out of America in a hurry in the wake of 9-11?

The thing is rich powerful people don't give two hoots about the rest of us and would do litteraly anything to 1,maintain their power and 2, make even more money.

buried · 02-12-2018 12:19am

nullzero wrote: »

Didn't the Bush families good friends the Bin Laden family get flown out of America in a hurry in the wake of 9-11?

The thing is rich powerful people don't give two hoots about the rest of us and would do litteraly anything to 1,maintain their power and 2, make even more money.

Yep, all the Saudi diplomats were flown out too.

tuxy · 02-12-2018 12:22am

I probably wouldn't have hung around canary wharf area right after the bombing by the IRA.

nullzero · 02-12-2018 12:25am

buried wrote: »

That wasn't the plan on 9/11, the plan to collapse one into the other was the earlier attack in 1993 when a car bomb was placed underneath one of the towers. KSM was the mastermind behind that plot also

The 93 attack was a truck bomb, the 9-11 attacks were uncannily perfect in terms of opportunity and execution. People would naturally find this hard to believe.
Also the altitude at which the pentagon plane approached would have made that size almost impossible to keep level and that speed.

There are two types of people in relation to 9-11, those who believe the official narrative and those who find it unbelievable. Nether will ever agree.
I find it hard to accept the official version, just like I find people believing in religion outlandish or how I can't get my head around racism and xenophobia. Lots of people believe lots of things, at this stage with 9-11 people's minds are made up and anything put forward by the other "side" will be deemed illogical and dismissed out of hand.

tuxy · 02-12-2018 12:30am

I'm actually very sceptical of the official story. But you just get so many people going on about how highly predeceased fuel can't explode. Or how extreme temperatures can't weaken steel. They make it impossible to have a logical conversation about it.

nullzero · 02-12-2018 12:31am

tuxy wrote: »

I probably wouldn't have hung around canary wharf area right after the bombing by the IRA.

Why were you involved?

j8wk2feszrnpao · 02-12-2018 12:32am

nullzero wrote: »

Why were you involved?

I'm sure he means an Irish accent, in the vicinity, in the aftermath of the bombing may not be a good idea.

tuxy · 02-12-2018 12:33am

nullzero wrote: »

Why were you involved?

Can you remember(or imagine if you were not born) what the British polices attitude was to the Irish around that time?

nullzero · 02-12-2018 12:35am

tuxy wrote: »

Can you remember what the British polices attitude was to the Irish around that time?

I sure can, I remember the casual xenophobia towards the Irish (which still exists in a diluted form today) as well.
Plenty of Irish people lived in and integrated into English society during the troubles, most English people had a nuanced enough world view to not tar us all with the terrorist brush.

buried · 02-12-2018 12:40am

nullzero wrote: »

The 93 attack was a truck bomb, the 9-11 attacks were uncannily perfect in terms of opportunity and execution. People would naturally find this hard to believe.
Also the altitude at which the pentagon plane approached would have made that size almost impossible to keep level and that speed.

There are two types of people in relation to 9-11, those who believe the official narrative and those who find it unbelievable. Nether will ever agree.
I find it hard to accept the official version, just like I find people believing in religion outlandish or how I can't get my head around racism and xenophobia. Lots of people believe lots of things, at this stage with 9-11 people's minds are made up and anything put forward by the other "side" will be deemed illogical and dismissed out of hand.

Both attacks were designed to try to take down the towers. KSM owned up to being the mastermind behind both attacks, he was also a qualified structural engineer. Thats how it was perfectly executed and engineered. People are going to to find it hard to believe a guy with a Bachelor of Science degree is going to be a terror mastermind, fair enough, but he was, he was also a ruthless violent Islamist terrorist too. This is the level of planning and ruthlessness the strands of violent wahhabi death cult terrorism will go to.

I believe the official narrative, to a certain degree, I believe Bin Laden, Zawahiri and KSM thought it out and planned it, KSM was for years trying to do it. For the case of some in the hierarchy of the USA knowing they were going to do it, I don't know. That could be possible, and they could have used it to take advantage of. But the men who have said they were behind it, Bin Laden, I mean, you have to say fair enough. They owned up to it, they were all got for owning up to it. All of the funds for the 9/11 attack came from Bin Laden and his sources in Saudi Arabia. That much is undeniable because all you have to do is follow the money that was sent to Atta, Atef and the rest of them.

MonkieSocks · 02-12-2018 12:46am

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Tried to have Reagan assassinated, only the hand of God could have saved him.

Maradona saved Reagan?

:eek:

flatty · 02-12-2018 12:49am

paw patrol wrote: »

that "idiot" was US president twice...what have you achieved?

Seriously? A lot more than you.
Admittedly I'm not responsible for mass murder, and other assorted crimes against humanity, so perhaps I am indeed a failure, but I've done OK in the general scheme of things.
How about your good self?
Sure Pol Pot was leader for ages. What a man he was.

nullzero · 02-12-2018 12:56am

buried wrote: »

Both attacks were designed to try to take down the towers. KSM owned up to being the mastermind behind both attacks, he was also a qualified structural engineer. Thats how it was perfectly executed and engineered. People are going to to find it hard to believe a guy with a Bachelor of Science degree is going to be a terror mastermind, fair enough, but he was, he was also a ruthless violent Islamist terrorist too. This is the level of planning and ruthlessness the strands of violent wahhabi death cult terrorism will go to.

I believe the official narrative, to a certain degree, I believe Bin Laden, Zawahiri and KSM thought it out and planned it, KSM was for years trying to do it. For the case of some in the hierarchy of the USA knowing they were going to do it, I don't know. That could be possible, and they could have used it to take advantage of. But the men who have said they were behind it, Bin Laden, I mean, you have to say fair enough. They owned up to it, they were all got for owning up to it. All of the funds for the 9/11 attack came from Bin Laden and his sources in Saudi Arabia. That much is undeniable because all you have to do is follow the money that was sent to Atta, Atef and the rest of them.

A number of engineers have noted that the towers were designed to withstand multiple impacts from fully loaded (with fuel) passenger jets each without suffering collapse. It is notable that the only three buildings to ever collapse in this fashion were in the world trade centre on 9-11 and one of them was not even hit by a plane.

As for money being sourced to fund the attacks coming from Saudi Arabia (a country with incredibly close financial and political ties to the United States) from the Bin Laden family (who have incredibly close business and personal ties to the Bush family in particular) being held up as a proof of 9-11 being an attack carried out independently from American influence doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
In fact the incubation of wahabism itself inside a "friendly" middle eastern nation like Saudi Arabia has in itself possibly aided American foreign policy in the middle East by exporting its warped hard-line version of Islam to soon to be intervened in nations in the region. Right now America is selling weapons to Saudi Arabia that are being used in Yemen in a war nobody really wants to pay attention to.

nullzero · 02-12-2018 12:59am

flatty wrote: »

Seriously? A lot more than you.
Admittedly I'm not responsible for mass murder, and other assorted crimes against humanity, so perhaps I am indeed a failure, but I've done OK in the general scheme of things.
How about your good self?
Sure Pol Pot was leader for ages. What a man he was.

The more people you bomb the more likely you are to get a Noble peace prize.

buried · 02-12-2018 1:05am

nullzero wrote: »

A number of engineers have noted that the towers were designed to withstand multiple impacts from fully loaded (with fuel) passenger jets each without suffering collapse. It is notable that the only three buildings to ever collapse in this fashion were in the world trade centre on 9-11 and one of them was not even hit by a plane.

Have you a source for that, the only engineer I ever heard discuss the subject was one of the structural ones who designed the towers back in the 70's, when planes had much smaller fuel levels built into the mechanics of the planes back then. He claimed they never even thought of such an incident even happening, much like the rest of us. KSM knew this, being a structural engineer and took full advantage of it

nullzero · 02-12-2018 1:17am

buried wrote: »

Have you a source for that, the only engineer I ever heard discuss the subject was one of the structural ones who designed the towers back in the 70's, when planes had much smaller fuel levels built into the mechanics of the planes back then. He claimed they never even thought of such an incident even happening, much like the rest of us. KSM knew this, being a structural engineer and took full advantage of it

Architects and engineers for 9-11 truth is something I'm sure you've heard of, you're a big boy I'm sure you can find it yourself.
The planes that hit the towers were also not carrying full tanks of fuel and were older models for their time and not the largest commercial aircraft in operation (I've flown in a united airlines 757 and can attest to it being a relatively cramped plane).

What are your thoughts on Saudi Arabia and its close ties to the United States?

markodaly · 02-12-2018 1:24am

Why are we entertaining 9/11 conspiracy cooks?

Put it this way, the US government couldn't hide the fact that Bill Clinton got a BJ in the Oval office from Monica Lewinsky, do you honestly expect that they could hide the fact that 9/11 was some sort of 'black ops' event?

Get real.

nullzero · 02-12-2018 1:26am

markodaly wrote: »

Why are we entertaining 9/11 conspiracy cooks?

Put it this way, the US government couldn't hide the fact that Bill Clinton got a BJ in the Oval office from Monica Lewinsky, do you honestly expect that they could hide the fact that 9/11 was some sort of 'black ops' event?

Get real.

Well that seals it. You've solved it all.

(Incidentally I think the word you were looking for was "kooks").

markodaly · 02-12-2018 1:31am

nullzero wrote: »

Well that seals it. You've solved it all.

(Incidentally I think the word you were looking for was "kooks").

Not solved it at all. Maybe there is nothing to solve. If you want to waste your time with that crap fine by me, but its a rabbit hole, where you will get no real answers.

Your belief is just that, a belief.

nullzero · 02-12-2018 1:37am

markodaly wrote: »

Not solved it at all. Maybe there is nothing to solve. If you want to waste your time with that crap fine by me, but its a rabbit hole, where you will get no real answers.

Your belief is just that, a belief.

If you want to believe in your interpretation of it that fine by me (note how I can respect your right to your opinion without referring to it as "crap").

As you said your belief is also just a belief.

Have a nice evening, and best of luck locating your manners.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 02-12-2018 2:18am

buried wrote: »

Both attacks were designed to try to take down the towers. KSM owned up to being the mastermind behind both attacks, he was also a qualified structural engineer. Thats how it was perfectly executed and engineered. People are going to to find it hard to believe a guy with a Bachelor of Science degree is going to be a terror mastermind, fair enough, but he was, he was also a ruthless violent Islamist terrorist too. This is the level of planning and ruthlessness the strands of violent wahhabi death cult terrorism will go to.

I believe the official narrative, to a certain degree, I believe Bin Laden, Zawahiri and KSM thought it out and planned it, KSM was for years trying to do it. For the case of some in the hierarchy of the USA knowing they were going to do it, I don't know. That could be possible, and they could have used it to take advantage of. But the men who have said they were behind it, Bin Laden, I mean, you have to say fair enough. They owned up to it, they were all got for owning up to it. All of the funds for the 9/11 attack came from Bin Laden and his sources in Saudi Arabia. That much is undeniable because all you have to do is follow the money that was sent to Atta, Atef and the rest of them.

KSM admitted it it as well as any other numerous crimes after a few years of water boarding. I believe he said he also killed Lincoln and shot JR.

California Dreamer · 02-12-2018 2:33am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEhMBFfAgoE

Well worth a listen as was the whole series in the run up to the 2016 US election. Put together by the Washington Post.

paw patrol · 02-12-2018 11:18am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Where does trump lie in this average dopeness, and how good is he really, at addressing the masses?

Trump knows his audience, it's actually his strongest card. Trump trumps them all..:pac:

chrissb8 wrote: »

Par Obama do you think Bush & Trump have the capacity to be president? They're both supported and propped by much smarter people.

Yes they do. Is that not a strength to recognise where they need support ? It's a super smart quality to be self aware, yet you seem to think it's a failure?
Not that I agree Obama was better or worse that these guys, he has just better PR.

People tend to judge these guys based on whether they like them or not so it's not really an argument going places.

chrissb8 wrote: »

Generally it does mean if someone jumbles up their words they aren't all that smart.

nah it means that aren't good at speaking , a great quality but doesn't have bearing on the rest of their intelligence.

chrissb8 wrote: »

Because smart people can form coherent sentences, arguments with logic and elequence. Not continuously contradict themselves on a daily basis.

As a smart man (Bertrand Russell) once said
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

so no.

batgoat · 02-12-2018 12:15pm

This explains so much about certain posters when they come out with 911 being an inside job...

tuxy · 02-12-2018 12:19pm

batgoat wrote: »

This explains so much about certain posters when they come out with 911 being an inside job...

New World Order!

buried · 02-12-2018 12:30pm

Check out the date on the cheque man

Franz Von Peppercorn · 02-12-2018 12:42pm

batgoat wrote: »

This explains so much about certain posters when they come out with 911 being an inside job...

I tend not to be a conspiracy theorist, but rather a believer in conspiracy facts, or which there are many. Hard to find a war that started without a conspiracy or a lie.

The problem with the theorists is that they go overboard and start to believe multiple things that couldn't have happened, and the more wheels within wheels there are the more unlikely something is a conspiracy, not the reverse. The simplest inside job is that the Arabs were acting alone but some spy services were aware, or ( less likely) were controlled by a western power unbeknownst to themselves, and there is definitely evidence of some prior knowledge. No need for demolition explosives, magic planes, etc etc etc

And of course many rational people in the left in the US believe a conspiracy where Russia controlled Trump for years, and effected the US election. Theres a dossier to that effect, and either the conspiratorial dossier is true and there was a conspiracy by Russia, or it isn't and theres a deep state conspiracy.

Wanderer78 · 02-12-2018 12:49pm

paw patrol wrote:

Trump knows his audience, it's actually his strongest card. Trump trumps them all..

He's as thick as ****e

skooterblue2 · 02-12-2018 1:02pm

batgoat wrote: »

This explains so much about certain posters when they come out with 911 being an inside job...

You think "Black Flags" are an invention of modern day and dont happen? Bay of Tonka, Polish persecuations of German families pre world war 2.

A guy I know insists Jews are behind the construction of every war. Even our own war of independence was hinging on a loan from the Rotheschilds. The Rotheschilds kept the Napoleonic War going for years and entrenching both sides in massive debt. You have JP Morgan over on the other side of the atlantic. They dont even try to hide the Bilderbergs no more. Even Irishmen like Peter Sutherland and Simon Coveney have been/are members.

batgoat · 02-12-2018 1:07pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

You think "Black Flags" are an invention of modern day and dont happen? Bay of Tonka, Polish persecuations of German families pre world war 2.

A guy I know insists Jews are behind the construction of every war. Even our own war of independence was hinging on a loan from the Rotheschilds. The Rotheschilds kept the Napoleonic War going for years and entrenching both sides in massive debt. You have JP Morgan over on the other side of the atlantic. They dont even try to hide the Bilderbergs no more. Even Irishmen like Peter Sutherland and Simon Coveney have been/are members.

Okay, so you're veering into anti semetic conspiracies now... You think this makes you sound more credible?

skooterblue2 · 02-12-2018 1:10pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

He's as thick as ****e

He may not talk the talk like Obama or have the charm of Bill Clinton, But the man knows business and how to get things moving. He has been the head of a Fortune 500 company. He fires incompetent people or people who have been compromised, he has work ethic, he does charity and civil rights. George W Bush just played golf and Obama surfed the net for 4 hours a night.

Shure he has made mistakes in business but he has always bounced back up. America needs to be run as business and not as a social welfare state for Banks corporations and non nationals. I only wish we had a Taoiseach who put Ireland first.

skooterblue2 · 02-12-2018 1:25pm

batgoat wrote: »

Okay, so you're veering into anti semetic conspiracies now... You think this makes you sound more credible?

How do you think the war of independence would have gotten off the ground if Collins couldnt get finance? Keep the 12 apostles fed, armed and in safe houses? Who kept the Flying Columns in West Cork moving? Paid Remington for the Thompsons (great idea but massive problems with acquiring 45 parabellum)? Paid Mausers for the k98's? Not sure how many Mausers 96's? Paid bribes, pensions and seed money for the foundation of the state. We used to have an army then of 30,000.

Notice how the IRA struck the British at a particular weak point exactly after the first world war, Spanish flu, failed expeditionary force to Russia. British were worn down at that stage that didnt happen by accident.

Before you say "wacist" I have a few Jewish friends (not many) and visited many synagogues in Ireland the UK and the States. I do recognise they are cut from a different material. They have a different attitude to life and their religion has out lived many, many contemporaries of their time and will outlive our own western civilisation.

tuxy · 02-12-2018 1:33pm

Can we get to the bottom of highly compressed kerosene not being capable of exploding. After seeing many videos of plane crashes I just have trouble believing they are all CGI :eek:

skooterblue2 · 02-12-2018 1:35pm

tuxy wrote: »

Can we get to the bottom of highly compressed kerosene not being capable of exploding. After seeing many videos of plane crashes I just have trouble believing they are all CGI :eek:

What about WTC 7 which spontaneously exploded?

markodaly · 02-12-2018 1:38pm

nullzero wrote: »

As you said your belief is also just a belief.

No, my belief is actually a fact. Two planes hit the twin towers and brought them down. OBL and Al Qeuda were behind it, not some dark shadow government. The latter is a belief, just like Santa Claus, know the difference.

tuxy · 02-12-2018 1:39pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

What about WTC 7 which spontaneously exploded?

I'm not an engineer. Can we talk about things I do know about please.
You claimed yesterday that pressurised kerosene does not explode, I'm still baffled by this.

Mookie Blaylock · 02-12-2018 1:43pm

tuxy wrote: »

I'm not an engineer. Can we talk about things I do know about please.
You claimed yesterday that pressurised kerosene does not explode, I'm still baffled by this.

It doesn't always, you do know that?

markodaly · 02-12-2018 1:43pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

What about WTC 7 which spontaneously exploded?

Christ, this argument again. Just because you find it hard to believe that it fell from the debris of the WTC, does not mean that it was felled by explosives as part of some black ops. It makes no sense at all.

tuxy · 02-12-2018 1:45pm

Mookie Blaylock wrote: »

It doesn't always, you do know that?

I do but skooterblue2 claimed it can't.

Billy Mays · 02-12-2018 1:46pm

A Trump fan having a pop at another president for playing golf

You're deluded

Franz Von Peppercorn · 02-12-2018 2:08pm

markodaly wrote: »

No, my belief is actually a fact. Two planes hit the twin towers and brought them down. OBL and Al Qeuda were behind it, not some dark shadow government. The latter is a belief, just like Santa Claus, know the difference.

There’s not enough evidence for the conspiracy theory, for sure.

However you believe that the US government would never bomb its own citizens if it could?

George H W Bush has died

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