Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker Spoilers from post 2076

Wedwood · 24-12-2019 10:23am

A few comparisons between the sequel and original trilogies for those hyperventilating at these Disney Star Wars movies.

Adjusted for inflation, the new movies are doing about the same business as the originals at the box office. It doesn’t look as spectacular now because it’s just one of a number of ‘mega franchises’ this time around.

The mixed critic reviews for Rise of Skywalker are almost identical to the original reviews for Return of the Jedi. https://www.starwars.com/news/critical-opinion-return-of-the-jedi-original-reviews

Some of the original reviews for ROTJ denounced it for ditching the serious tone of Empire and lowering itself to becoming a more crowd pleasing effort. (One of the reviewers accuses the movie has having being ‘Disneyed’ by Lucas)

Sounds familiar ??

Burty330 · 24-12-2019 10:43am

Dades wrote: »

I don't know if that's true or not, but the real issue with the trilogy has been a lack of antagonist, not whether or not Luke anchored the whole thing. It made sense in a way to pass the baton on to the new generation.

Snoke was just a hologram, then got unceremoniously halved. He was the Emperor lite. Hux was more Spaceballs than Star Wars. Then Palps pops up with some back of a beermat exposition as to where he's been. At least Kylo Ren is a quality character.

But given Rey, and to a lessor extent, Finn and Poe have been constant in terms of protagonists, it's been the inconsistent bad guys that are the elephant in the room.

A LucasFilm insider under the alias of JediPaxis released this information on Reddit.
Yes , passing the baton onto a new cast made sense in theory , but it was totally botched in execution.

The fans first wanted the old guard reunited on screen together before the passing of the torch. It wasn't permitted by Kennedy.

Liam O · 24-12-2019 10:53am

I really thought it would go down the balance route at the end with either all of the Jedi/sith dying or both Kylo and Rey accepting that there is balance in them and embracing that rather than being chained to a side. The happy ending kind of ruined what I was enjoying up to that point, even with obvious flaws. Pretty much leaves everything in the exact same position as the end of RotJ.

It also means that casino town in TLJ really was for nothing as nothing came of the kids being force sensitive and all of those plots were dropped bar being slightly shoehorned in with Finn.

As I said I really enjoyed it in the end but it could have done something different and as I said earlier in the thread it is held together by Kylo and Rey which was developed greatly in TLJ.

sonic85 · 24-12-2019 11:10am

The new trilogy basically shat all over the old one with bad storytelling and boring one dimensional characters. Much like Captain Marvel Rey is ridiculously overpowered which takes away all sense of jeopardy. There were numerous points in this film where she really needed to show a bit of vulnerability and maybe need to be bailed out by her friends, but no matter the problem or obstacle she was able to overcome it on her own. Why have any supporting characters at all? They served no purpose. Finn and Poe are probably two of the worst most impotent characters I've seen in a long time, serving pretty much no purpose and having all the personality of a couple of pieces of cardboard.

JJ Abrams desperately tried to backtrack from the problems of the last movie but pretty much failed - the ghost of Luke catching the lightsabre being a particularly eye rolling moment. I mean how can you ignore the events of the last film? How can he go from tossing it over his shoulder to all of a sudden berating Rey and telling her to treat it with respect? Such a load of bollocks.

The best of the new breed is Rogue One. Another film that didn't really need to be made but it was very decent and an enjoyable watch.

Sad Professor · 24-12-2019 12:05pm

As response/mirror of TLJ, Luke catching the saber doesn't bother me so much. What bothers me more is that it's played as a wink to the fans and one that doesn't make any sense for his character. Because long before he was a loser on an island, Luke was the last person to talk about disrespecting lightsabers given that his finest moment involved him going against both his teachers and tossing his saber aside in front of the two men he was meant to kill and declaring himself a Jedi.

This is why I have no problem with Luke's character in TLJ. Because I have no trouble believing that the man who not only survived but was mythologised for such a potentially foolish act would be led to other foolish ideas, such deciding to end the Jedi when the galaxy needed them most.

Sonics2k · 24-12-2019 12:27pm

Pitch Meeting sums this movie up extremely well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2zZFtq13c4

cian68 · 24-12-2019 1:23pm

Liam O wrote: »

It also means that casino town in TLJ really was for nothing as nothing came of the kids being force sensitive and all of those plots were dropped bar being slightly shoehorned in with Finn.

I don't think the kids were ever coming back in to it. More a symbol of the downtrodden in the galaxy looking up to the resistance and that a jedi can come from anywhere.

expectationlost · 24-12-2019 1:33pm

faceman wrote: »

I bet that was something a mate said to you in the pub and now you’re saying it here thinking you’re funny.

We are nerds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQdDRrcAOjA

Im familiar with Clerks but they do bring it up in the film talking about conscription and another ex-storm trooper character but then they do nothing with it.

The Golden Miller · 24-12-2019 3:25pm

Alot of missed opportunities in the trilogy, or point blank refusal's from the top to allow thing's to play out as they should have.

Not allowing the original cast feature together at any stage. Luke's character assassination etc. People say it's down to Kathleen Kennedy, and if that's the case, she should be gone.

This film has force ghosts popping up all over the place. Why on earth doesn't Anakin show up at any point? Not only are force ghosts popping up, they can tangibly affect objects it seems. With the precedent they set, why aren't all past Jedi's showing up to save the day?

Darth Sidious has the power of all previous Sith's in him. Surely this would have been a good opportunity for the spirit of Anakin to get behind Rey? Anakin was supposed to be the most powerful force user who never fulfilled his potential. Instead of "all the Jedi's living in you" guff, surely this should of been the moment the force potential of Anakin, through Rey or even Ben, finally overpowers Palpatine.

They allude to Anakin with his mask constantly, then completely ignore he ever existed at other times. No Skywalker in the climactic showdown either, well knocked down a shaft out of the way. They keep touching in the importance of the Skywalker lineage, yet never do anything with it. Just in the name of the film to get people in the door

Tony EH · 24-12-2019 3:34pm

Wedwood wrote: »

A few comparisons between the sequel and original trilogies for those hyperventilating at these Disney Star Wars movies.

Adjusted for inflation, the new movies are doing about the same business as the originals at the box office. It doesn’t look as spectacular now because it’s just one of a number of ‘mega franchises’ this time around.

The mixed critic reviews for Rise of Skywalker are almost identical to the original reviews for Return of the Jedi. https://www.starwars.com/news/critical-opinion-return-of-the-jedi-original-reviews

Some of the original reviews for ROTJ denounced it for ditching the serious tone of Empire and lowering itself to becoming a more crowd pleasing effort. (One of the reviewers accuses the movie has having being ‘Disneyed’ by Lucas)

Sounds familiar ??

Box office is no reflection of quality and it's the quality of the movie that is remembered, not what it made in the cinema.

What these films will be remembered for is being a shitty trilogy by a corporation that didn't know what to do with it, that basically wrecked the better trilogy because they just nullify everything that happened in them.

Objectively speaking, and despite their flaws, the original films are miles ahead of either the prequels or the sequels and no amount of box office talk will change that.

Tony EH · 24-12-2019 3:39pm

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Why on earth doesn't Anakin show up at any point?

Because Sebastian Shaw died in 1994.

1o059k7ewrqj3n · 24-12-2019 3:45pm

I’m no Star Wars fan, so I was a bit detached watching it in the cinema but I have seen enough of the films to know the lore.

It was an alright film but I’ll forget about it in a few days. The pacing was too fast and the film was too long. Parts of the film that should have been very significant were not handled very well.

S.M.B. · 24-12-2019 3:54pm

Any links to the Kathleen Kennedy hates Luke Skywalker leak?

Tony EH · 24-12-2019 3:58pm

Steyr 556 wrote: »

The pacing was too fast and the film was too long.

This seems to be a reoccurring criticism with the picture. JJ throwing loads of crap onto the screen and hitting all the flashy lights, so the audience cannot stop and see where the cracks are.

My mate went to it this morning. He said it was like having a fit.

Loafing Oaf · 24-12-2019 4:06pm

Tony EH wrote: »

This seems to be a reoccurring criticism with the picture. JJ throwing loads of crap onto the screen and hitting all the flashy lights, so the audience cannot stop and see where the cracks are.

My mate went to it this morning. He said it was like having a fit.

It'll make a great playstation game though:p

The White Wolf · 24-12-2019 4:10pm

I'd be curious to know if the

voiceovers got paid and what the figure was for *that* scene. Some of the voiceovers seemed tacked on but others were clearly recorded.

I would like to think if they got Rogered by the likes of Jackson and Christensen then we would have gotten something a bit more spectacular than we did.

johnny_ultimate · 24-12-2019 4:15pm

S.M.B. wrote: »

Any links to the Kathleen Kennedy hates Luke Skywalker leak?

Reliable angry man on YouTube who has made 75 separate videos about Captain Marvel for some reason.

The White Wolf · 24-12-2019 4:42pm

To be fair they did underestimate the OT actor's significance to the fandom. Again it's a case of Disney wanting all the dollars from the franchise but also wanting their decisions to be obeyed.

Killing Han like they did suited all parties.

Killing Luke the way they did was a misstep however. They could have gotten away with it had Rian actually fully committed to it but he didn't. He just decided to ignore logical threads to create his own brand new ones that the story didn't have the time for. Again I'm a fan of TLJ as a film in itself but it's basically a **** you to the franchise which is fine, but doesn't work for Disney's strategy of wanting all the stacks.

faceman · 24-12-2019 4:50pm

A quirky thought occurred to me this morning. Imagine that the Star Wars series was released chronologically and 77 brought us Phantom Menace with AOTC coming in 83 etc.

How would fans have felt about the use of Yoda in episodes 4-6 given the role he played. Would folks have been up in arms about his lack of involvement in anything other than trying to train Luke?

The White Wolf · 24-12-2019 4:52pm

Well that's not what happened so it's redundant to speculate about.

Sad Professor · 24-12-2019 5:08pm

The White Wolf wrote: »

Well that's not what happened so it's redundant to speculate about.

The same could be said for the suggestion that this trilogy should have been a reunion trilogy with Luke, Han and Leia as the main characters. It didn't happen. They went with it being about a new group of characters with the old trio as baton-passers and that meant they needed to stay in the background (Leia) or get out of the way at a certain point (Han, Luke).

johnny_ultimate · 24-12-2019 5:31pm

The White Wolf wrote: »

Killing Luke the way they did was a misstep however. They could have gotten away with it had Rian actually fully committed to it but he didn't.

Johnson does 100% commit to killing Luke the way he does. It’s an essential moment for the film: since it’s about broadening the definition of heroism and finally breaking the cycles / bloodlines / destinies that have dominated the series (hence why this film’s Rey backtrack is such a dumb move), Luke has to go. But he goes out completely on his own terms: he knows he has just one more role to play, and commits to this one final act to protect and save the people whose stories aren’t finished yet. As I’ve said elsewhere before, the way it closes with a visual that ends Luke’s journey - directly echoing that moment when he first stared into the dual-sunset - is also a beautiful piece of purely cinematic closure.

As with many things in this film, its Abrams’ lack of nerve or creativity to run with the ideas overtly set-up by Johnson that makes this such a half-hearted mess. He just returns to the well to hit the same beats we’ve seen before, and it’s deeply unsatisfying as a result. Not to mention the Luke scene here is the ****ing worst.

Calhoun · 24-12-2019 5:37pm

Had they ended Luke in a manner like you have described but not as rushed i think it would have gone allot better.

Pacing seemed to be a big issues in TLJ, it felt like five minutes in and Ackbar, Lea and most of the older crew were taken out of it.

So it overshadowed what he was trying to do with Luke as it just felt like it was a rush to kill everyone off.

The White Wolf · 24-12-2019 5:41pm

Sad Professor wrote: »

The same could be said for the suggestion that this trilogy should have been a reunion trilogy with Luke, Han and Leia as the main characters. It didn't happen. They went with it being about a new group of characters with the old trio as baton-passers and that meant they needed to stay in the background (Leia) or get out of the way at a certain point (Han, Luke).

I think the fandom fully accepted that Luke would be offed at some point. I'm sure if one googles Luke theories for this trilogy, even after TFA was released, most of them would have him dying in the second film.

But there was obviously a disconnect between the fans and producers in regards to how it happened. Again....we need to bare in mind that Disney wanted to make billions from this franchise. Only way that is done is making competent but well executed films that don't rock the boat too much (in other words the Marvel formula....no wonder they hired Feige?).

Relikk · 24-12-2019 5:45pm

The Golden Miller wrote: »

This film has force ghosts popping up all over the place.

There are two force ghosts that I can remember. Luke appears half way through, and then Luke and Leia at the end outside the Lars homestead.

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Not to mention the Luke scene here is the ****ing worst.

:pac:

johnny_ultimate · 24-12-2019 5:48pm

Calhoun wrote: »

Had they ended Luke in a manner like you have described but not as rushed i think it would have gone allot better.

Pacing seemed to be a big issues in TLJ, it felt like five minutes in and Ackbar, Lea and most of the older crew were taken out of it.

So it overshadowed what he was trying to do with Luke as it just felt like it was a rush to kill everyone off.

I disagree, I think there’s a lot of room in TLJ for Luke’s arc. The Yoda and Leia scenes explicitly set up and add weight to what Luke ultimately decides to do, not to mention the journey’s he’s been on with Rey up to that point.

While there’s undoubtedly a lot happening in TLJ and not always to the film’s benefit (Poe in particular could have benefited from more screentime), any pacing problems it has are amplified a hundred-fold in this barely coherent mess.

The White Wolf · 24-12-2019 5:53pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Johnson does 100% commit to killing Luke the way he does. It’s an essential moment for the film: since it’s about broadening the definition of heroism and finally breaking the cycles / bloodlines / destinies that have dominated the series (hence why this film’s Rey backtrack is such a dumb move), Luke has to go. But he goes out completely on his own terms: he knows he has just one more role to play, and commits to this one final act to protect and save the people whose stories aren’t finished yet. As I’ve said elsewhere before, the way it closes with a visual that ends Luke’s journey - directly echoing that moment when he first stared into the dual-sunset - is also a beautiful piece of purely cinematic closure.

As with many things in this film, its Abrams’ lack of nerve or creativity to run with the ideas overtly set-up by Johnson that makes this such a half-hearted mess. He just returns to the well to hit the same beats we’ve seen before, and it’s deeply unsatisfying as a result. Not to mention the Luke scene here is the ****ing worst.

As I said I've no problem with TLJ and is a fine film in itself. I also didn't think much of ROS. Abrams and Rian only did the job they were hired to do.

My issue is with Disney and their anger towards the fans even though its their own lack of planning that's the main failure here.

Calhoun · 24-12-2019 6:29pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I disagree, I think there’s a lot of room in TLJ for Luke’s arc. The Yoda and Leia scenes explicitly set up and add weight to what Luke ultimately decides to do, not to mention the journey’s he’s been on with Rey up to that point.

While there’s undoubtedly a lot happening in TLJ and not always to the film’s benefit (Poe in particular could have benefited from more screentime), any pacing problems it has are amplified a hundred-fold in this barely coherent mess.

I think why Lukes ending is a sore spot for most is due to Carrie Fishers untimely demise, had she been the bridge into the third film it would have made allot more sense. So thats why for me it just seems so rushed as all bar Chewie are gone by the end of the second film.

It is an odd film for sure, i feel the escape run on the ship was way too long and over done and sucked out the urgency but for some key bits they really ended it super fast.

The Golden Miller · 24-12-2019 6:54pm

Tony EH wrote: »

Because Sebastian Shaw died in 1994.

Hayden Christensen? Whether you like him or not, he is still part of the canon. CGI? They've done it before. Relatively easy when it's a blurry force ghost. Even his spirit in some form or another. You're right though I guess, there was no possible way to get him in whatsoever

The Golden Miller · 24-12-2019 6:59pm

And why when Sidious has his force lighting turned against him, does he not just stop projecting it? Second time this has happened

Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker **Spoilers from post 2076**

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Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker Spoilers from post 2076