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How long before you shot 36pts?

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Comments

  • #52
    OEP
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭OEP


    gapthunt wrote: »
    I have been quoted this number from different teaching professional's.

    It must be SS and not 36 points though, and must also depend on the category of golfer. Like a category 1 golfer is going to be getting 36 points a lot more than 10% of the time.

    In my course CSS is generally 37 points, and last year I shot 36 points or better 50% of the time. I did get cut but only by 1.2.


  • #53
    GreeBo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,253 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    gypsy79 wrote: »
    To legitimately be given a handicap of 18 under the old system (on calculation only) then one of your 3 rounds would have needed to be 19 over par

    Did I say under!! Doh

    i am saying in is very unlikely you shot 19 over then didnt do 18 over for 3-4 years

    The 19 over was with clause 19 though and would have been my best out of the 3. I was a total beginner so scores were..."varied"!

    The vast majority of our comps are strokes, so I didn't shoot 18 over for years. (and then stayed on 17 for a good while too!)
    I may have had 36 points due to CSS etc, but it wasnt due to me playing to my handicap. (SSS is also +1 on our course)

    I'm sure there was an aspect of "everyone starts on 18" too, it was a good while ago! :(


  • #54
    GreeBo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,253 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    OEP wrote: »
    Like a category 1 golfer is going to be getting 36 points a lot more than 10% of the time.
    I wouldnt agree with that at all!
    They are obviously less likely to shoot 28 points, but playing to their handicap...nah!
    In my course CSS is generally 37 points, and last year I shot 36 points or better 50% of the time. I did get cut but only by 1.2.

    If you are shooting 36 points 50% of the time then your handicap is too high, prepare to get chopped if you repeat that when/if we ever get back!


  • #55
    gypsy79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭gypsy79


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I wouldnt agree with that at all!
    They are obviously less likely to shoot 28 points, but playing to their handicap...nah!



    If you are shooting 36 points 50% of the time then your handicap is too high, prepare to get chopped if you repeat that when/if we ever get back!

    I shot 36 points 7 times in a row a couple of summers ago

    No handicap move obviously. Under the new system I would expect very small downward movement


  • #56
    OEP
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭OEP


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I wouldnt agree with that at all!
    They are obviously less likely to shoot 28 points, but playing to their handicap...nah!



    If you are shooting 36 points 50% of the time then your handicap is too high, prepare to get chopped if you repeat that when/if we ever get back!

    They were all competitions, and as I mentioned - CSS is generally 37 points so how does that make my handicap too high? I'm also a cat 2 golfer so my buffer is 35 points.

    Edit: Also, my new Handicap Index is exactly the same as my CONGU handicap


  • #57
    GreeBo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,253 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    gypsy79 wrote: »
    I shot 36 points 7 times in a row a couple of summers ago

    No handicap move obviously. Under the new system I would expect very small downward movement

    Well it depends on the sample size obviously, I often shoot 36 point 100% of the time :D

    If you are consistently playing to your handicap then your good days will be even better and so that would result in the cut, just playing to it obviously won't cut it.

    i.e. it would be very rare to keep just playing to it but not better than it.


  • #58
    GreeBo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,253 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    OEP wrote: »
    They were all competitions, and as I mentioned - CSS is generally 37 points so how does that make my handicap too high? I'm also a cat 2 golfer so my buffer is 35 points.

    Well the buffer only comes into it for getting shots back, but if you are shooting 36 points 50% of the time, I would expect you to be shooting > 36 points frequently also and hence be getting cut.

    It would be very strange to just be playing to your handicap consistently (note this is different than *staying at the same handicap!) and not also be shooting better than it.


  • #59
    OEP
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭OEP


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Well the buffer only comes into it for getting shots back, but if you are shooting 36 points 50% of the time, I would expect you to be shooting > 36 points frequently also and hence be getting cut.

    It would be very strange to just be playing to your handicap consistently (note this is different than *staying at the same handicap!) and not also be shooting better than it.

    Well I need to shoot > 37 points to get cut, so that's why I said originally that I'd imagine it's shooting to SS as opposed to shooting to your handicap.

    And I did get cut just over a shot so that probably differentiates me from someone staying at their handicap but I do disagree with the 10% figure.


  • #60
    GreeBo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,253 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    OEP wrote: »
    Well I need to shoot > 37 points to get cut, so that's why I said originally that I'd imagine it's shooting to SS as opposed to shooting to your handicap.
    Yeah, but if half the time you are shooting 36 points then I would expect that you are frequently shooting > 36 points?
    And I did get cut just over a shot so that probably differentiates me from someone staying at their handicap but I do disagree with the 10% figure.
    When your handicap is correct/stable it should be ~10%, so now that you have been cut, we can see if you still shoot 36 points 50% of the time or not.

    If you are more than 10% then you will probably end up being cut, if you are less then you should probably get shots back.


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  • #61
    OEP
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭OEP


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Yeah, but if half the time you are shooting 36 points then I would expect that you are frequently shooting > 36 points?


    When your handicap is correct/stable it should be ~10%, so now that you have been cut, we can see if you still shoot 36 points 50% of the time or not.

    If you are more than 10% then you will be cut, if you are less then you should get shots back.

    Frequently shooting => 36 points (I know you said > 36 but this thread, and the 10% figure, is about => to 36 points) is not the same as frequently shooting > 37 points. Occasionally yes, but when you're only getting cut 0.2 that can be quickly balanced out by 0.1s.

    Again, the 10% figure doesn't make sense to me unless someone has some study that works it out. If you play 20 competitions and only shoot >= your handicap twice, then you're almost certainly going up the way. Back to the first point I made, this also depends on SS.


  • #62
    GreeBo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,253 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    OEP wrote: »
    Frequently shooting => 36 points (I know you said > 36 but this thread, and the 10% figure, is about => to 36 points) is not the same as frequently shooting > 37 points. Occasionally yes, but when you're only getting cut 0.2 that can be quickly balanced out by 0.1s.

    Again, the 10% figure doesn't make sense to me unless someone has some study that works it out. If you play 20 competitions and only shoot >= your handicap twice, then you're almost certainly going up the way. Back to the first point I made, this also depends on SS.

    The handicap systems are all biased towards your better scores, so if you are frequently shooting 36 points then you are also shooting > 36 points and hence are going to end up getting cut.

    It would be bizarre if someone was shooting 36 points frequently, but that was also their peak performance and they didnt shoot > 36.

    It would need your "average" to closely resemble your max, which is not how golf works in my experience!

    for the purposes of discussion Im ignoring CSS != SSS but I agree with your point around this.

    I'd be more interested in how long before someone shot par + handicap strokes.


  • #63
    B-D-P--
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭B-D-P--


    ClutchIt wrote: »
    I love golf.
    I fckin love & miss golf.
    Have a tough day today at work, & miss finishing up, driving to the course, taking a breath of fresh and and striking a drive off the tee.
    Then teeing up a provisional and smashing that into the woods to find my first ball.

    But in all seriousness, I really miss the release of a few holes after work.


  • #64
    OEP
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭OEP


    GreeBo wrote: »
    The handicap systems are all biased towards your better scores, so if you are frequently shooting 36 points then you are also shooting > 36 points and hence are going to end up getting cut.

    It would be bizarre if someone was shooting 36 points frequently, but that was also their peak performance and they didnt shoot > 36.

    It would need your "average" to closely resemble your max, which is not how golf works in my experience!

    for the purposes of discussion Im ignoring CSS != SSS but I agree with your point around this.

    I'd be more interested in how long before someone shot par + handicap strokes.

    Last post on this but yes I was shooting 36 or more frequently and did get cut so you're right there.

    Unless proven wrong, I don't think 10% could be right. As I said, if you have 20 scores and only 2 are 36 points or more, you're going up the way unless one of those 2 scores is huge or you somehow manage to stay within the buffer a lot, which is unlikely if you're only shooting 36 twice.

    I really miss golf, I had big plans to continue the downward trend of my handicap with winter practice for the first time!


  • #65
    GreeBo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,253 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    OEP wrote: »
    Last post on this but yes I was shooting 36 or more frequently and did get cut so you're right there.

    Unless proven wrong, I don't think 10% could be right. As I said, if you have 20 scores and only 2 are 36 points or more, you're going up the way unless one of those 2 scores is huge or you somehow manage to stay within the buffer a lot, which is unlikely if you're only shooting 36 twice.

    Well your handicap is the average of your best 8 from that 20, so it wouldn't take too much to have
    2 better
    4 "buffer"
    2 worse

    and for you to stay the same, right? (obv all against CSS)


  • #66
    KevH1984
    Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭KevH1984


    OEP wrote: »
    It must be SS and not 36 points though, and must also depend on the category of golfer. Like a category 1 golfer is going to be getting 36 points a lot more than 10% of the time.

    In my course CSS is generally 37 points, and last year I shot 36 points or better 50% of the time. I did get cut but only by 1.2.

    I play in category 1 and looking back over my competition history from last year I shot under my handicap in 7/13 singles competitions on my home course with a further two at 36 points. Started last year at 5 ended almost at 3. My new WHS handicap is 2.3 and I'd be pretty confident of playing to that in at least 10% of my competitions this season.

    I had heard previously off handicap secretaries that the average golfer plays better than their handicap two or three times a year max. I'll be interested to see how this pans out across all golfers this year as I'm competition secretary in the club this season and it's something I'll follow with great interest.


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  • #67
    gypsy79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭gypsy79


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Well it depends on the sample size obviously, I often shoot 36 point 100% of the time :D

    If you are consistently playing to your handicap then your good days will be even better and so that would result in the cut, just playing to it obviously won't cut it.

    i.e. it would be very rare to keep just playing to it but not better than it.

    Oh it was a complete mental block...and how I got round it was playing off handicap 4 shots on my scoring app


  • #68
    GreeBo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,253 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    KevH1984 wrote: »
    I play in category 1 and looking back over my competition history from last year I shot under my handicap in 7/13 singles competitions on my home course with a further two at 36 points. Started last year at 5 ended almost at 3. My new WHS handicap is 2.3 and I'd be pretty confident of playing to that in at least 10% of my competitions this season.

    I had heard previously off handicap secretaries that the average golfer plays better than their handicap two or three times a year max. I'll be interested to see how this pans out across all golfers this year as I'm competition secretary in the club this season and it's something I'll follow with great interest.

    CONGU was basically you beat it maybe 1 in 7 times most in the buffer and then some huge numbers, hence why it was so heavily weighted for your good scores (no matter how bad on you get 0.1 back)
    I think it was a good system but I reckon 99% of golfers didn't understand it and assumed that it worked more like WHS or an average.

    With WHS, on average, I reckon you should play slightly worse than your handicap, since it discards your 12 bad rounds and then averages your best 8.

    I think the numbers quoted earlier are based on historical WHS stats from the other unions.


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