Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Dubinusa · 06-03-2021 12:01am

Just looked at the scores from the premiership. Some cliffhangers there. L.I scored 32 and lost by 1.
I also notice that McGinty is humming along nicely for Sale! Anyone think we lost out on the good 10. Would he have been in the conversation?

sydthebeat · 06-03-2021 12:05am

Dubinusa wrote: »

Just looked at the scores from the premiership. Some cliffhangers there. L.I scored 32 and lost by 1.
I also notice that McGinty is humming along nicely for Sale! Anyone think we lost out on the good 10. Would he have been in the conversation?

LI game really wasn't close.

It was 33 - 18 on 79 mins... Wayne Barnes was instrumental in Irish getting the LBP and TBP.
Fair dues to them for turning down a LBP pen to kick to the corner and scoring from the resultant maul

leakyboots · 06-03-2021 12:24am

Buer wrote: »

Too late for Haley to get into the Irish squad this time but if we're going on a summer tour, he's firmly in the conversation.

Carty was Carty yet again. Sublime moments punctured by incredibly basic errors. I don't think there's another 10 that would have executed that grubber and break in the shoulder. The awareness and pass for the opening try was great.

Then he also managed to get blocked down, kick it dead, miss touch and lose 40m with a long, off target pass which turned if over on halfway. He makes it very easy to ignore him as a potential test option.

The best performer from those released was Aki (who isn't going to feature at this stage barring injury regardless). Casey was grand. Great delivery but blocked down twice I think. Murray on form is still a better option overall as unpalatable as that may be to some.

JOD was good again but not going to be in the conversation due to the options in the back row. Blade was good but similar situation.

Conway clearly isn't right. He doesn't have any business at Carton House currently.

Agree with all of that bar Conway, what did he do so wrong?

Zzippy · 06-03-2021 12:28am

leakyboots wrote: »

Agree with all of that bar Conway, what did he do so wrong?

I was distracted by a cranky baby here but I barely noticed he was playing. He certainly didn't seem to have any influence on the game. Not sure what Buer is referring to about not being right?

thomond2006 · 06-03-2021 12:31am

Zzippy wrote: »

I was distracted by a cranky baby here but I barely noticed he was playing. He certainly didn't seem to have any influence on the game. Not sure what Buer is referring to about not being right?

He made one defensive error for the try and then another that was spared by a pass not going to hand.

theVersatile · 06-03-2021 12:34am

thomond2006 wrote: »

He made one defensive error for the try and then another that was spared by a pass not going to hand.

First one he got done by Aki - just enough legal contact to knock him off balance and stop him making the read out the back.

The second one - are you on about the pass Carty threw over the wingers head? Would you not say that it was Conway coming into the space that forced that error?

thomond2006 · 06-03-2021 1:03am

theVersatile wrote: »

The second one - are you on about the pass Carty threw over the wingers head? Would you not say that it was Conway coming into the space that forced that error?

You might be right, one to watch back.

TRC10 · 06-03-2021 1:08am

theVersatile wrote: »

First one he got done by Aki - just enough legal contact to knock him off balance and stop him making the read out the back.

The second one - are you on about the pass Carty threw over the wingers head? Would you not say that it was Conway coming into the space that forced that error?

On your own line, usually its actually the full back who covers the last man. Nevertheless it was phenomenal vision and skill by Carty to pull that pass off but munster were caught extremely narrow there.

06-03-2021 3:01am

Dubinusa wrote: »

Just looked at the scores from the premiership. Some cliffhangers there. L.I scored 32 and lost by 1.
I also notice that McGinty is humming along nicely for Sale! Anyone think we lost out on the good 10. Would he have been in the conversation?

Possibly but his rise to become a Premiership outhalf is incredibly improbably. He didn't really feature at underage level but took a few chances that came his way and turned some heads at the Rugby World Cup. Most players in Ireland have to be top in their position to make it to a World Cup. McGinty did the world cup first and then became a professional outhalf.

Great story, but I don't think you can blame anyone in Ireland. We wouldn't know who he is if he hadn't gotten that shot with the US team.

Buer · 06-03-2021 8:16am

Zzippy wrote: »

I was distracted by a cranky baby here but I barely noticed he was playing. He certainly didn't seem to have any influence on the game. Not sure what Buer is referring to about not being right?

He has missed a chunk of rugby in recent times for personal reasons whatever they are. He has looked a shadow of the guy he was 12 months ago. Largely anonymous and making a couple of notable errors each game.

Maybe he's just completely lost form. Either way, guys like Wootton, DK and Haley all deserve calls into the Ireland squad ahead of him at this point.

Buer · 06-03-2021 8:48am

aloooof wrote: »

In terms of Ireland camp, I don’t think Shane Daly was bad 2nite, bit it felt like had one of his poorer games this season. Tho he was on the periphery at points as well, thru no fault of his own. He was always unlikely to get much game time, but I don’t think he’s advanced his case 2nite.

I feel that sums up a lot of Daly's performances though. He's incredibly solid and makes very few errors. He makes smart decisions and gets back to his support.

He's not someone that creates, makes breaks or scores a lot of tries. To be honest, if he was dropped entirely from the Irish squad, he couldn't have too many complaints. With Baloucoune coming back, the competition for places will ramp up and I'd expect Daly to be the fall guy, if there are any changes.

He has great versatility though which is a big asset. With DDA potentially leaving in 14 months and the lack of options coming through for Munster, it would be interesting to see him revert back to his original position in the centre.

leakyboots · 06-03-2021 11:22am

Buer wrote: »

He has missed a chunk of rugby in recent times for personal reasons whatever they are. He has looked a shadow of the guy he was 12 months ago. Largely anonymous and making a couple of notable errors each game.

Maybe he's just completely lost form. Either way, guys like Wootton, DK and Haley all deserve calls into the Ireland squad ahead of him at this point.

Wouldn't agree with any of that. He's still making linebreaks and beating men like he used to. Had a slow start against Cardiff but really came alive in the end of the game. He had been out for months to be fair to him. He was lively with ball in hand last night, he didn't get a lot of it

Buer · 06-03-2021 11:40am

leakyboots wrote: »

Wouldn't agree with any of that. He's still making linebreaks and beating men like he used to. Had a slow start against Cardiff but really came alive in the end of the game. He had been out for months to be fair to him. He was lively with ball in hand last night, he didn't get a lot of it

I assume you mean Edinburgh as he didn't play against Cardiff. He sparked one move late on against Edinburgh where he made a break moving infield near the end (think it was the one where he got a knock) to set up a ruck. It wasn't exactly an electric break. He was pretty anonymous for the first 70 minutes. Same story last night with no real impact on the game in attack for the most part.

His defensive read last night was poor. Yes, he slipped but he was coming in on Aki who was already lined up; he shouldn't be in that position to start with. He made a similarly very poor defensive effort against Quins which led to a try from memory when he came up and then fell off a straightforward tackle.

He was arguably the best back three player in Ireland last season. I don't know how anyone could disagree with the idea that he's nowhere near that level in his showings this season. If he was, he'd be in the Irish 23.

06-03-2021 9:56pm

Balacoune should be into the Ireland squad ASAP. Class act.

sebdavis · 06-03-2021 11:12pm

Joanna Gifted Meadow wrote: »

Balacoune should be into the Ireland squad ASAP. Class act.

He is just back from a long term injury.

Clegg · 06-03-2021 11:50pm

If we weren't so overrun with quality opensides I think Penny would be worth looking at. He's won two motm awards in a row playing at 8 which isn't his natural position.

He's just 21 so there's plenty of time to bring him into the squad as well.

thomond2006 · 06-03-2021 11:55pm

sebdavis wrote: »

He is just back from a long term injury.

True, but he looked on fire tonight. Even if he doesn't play, he should be brought into camp.

I think he should play though.

Must love hardship · 07-03-2021 1:25am

With VDF going off with a HIA there might be a training spot for penny in the squad this week.
Id agree re Rob Bal. I think he should be in camp this week. Maybe he hasn't much game time lately but neither daly or Conway looked impressive this weekend. Stockdale is also really gone off the boil. Hume and lowey looked like live options tonight.

Fredinho · 07-03-2021 2:00am

Stockdale has to be back in next week

Lowe has been absolutely dire and doesn't deserve to be near the team

sydthebeat · 07-03-2021 2:07am

Fredinho wrote: »

Stockdale has to be back in next week

Lowe has been absolutely dire and doesn't deserve to be near the team

He's not "dire" and 100% deserves to be in the squad.

But hey, shiny shiny....

arsebiscuits1 · 07-03-2021 2:18am

Dubinusa wrote: »

Just looked at the scores from the premiership. Some cliffhangers there. L.I scored 32 and lost by 1.
I also notice that McGinty is humming along nicely for Sale! Anyone think we lost out on the good 10. Would he have been in the conversation?

Not really to be honest.

McGinty was exclusively a 9 all the way up through school and never more than reasonably rated as a schoolboy.

He switched to 10 playing div 2 AIL for Blackrock rfc after not getting a look in at the sub academy for Leinster.

He got a hail mary to play for the US after an unlikely residency stint on college scholarship which was timed very well to coincide with a world cup and there being no other options for them at 10.

Full credit to him. He's carved out an unexpectedly good career. He's undeniably an exception rather than a rule though and even at his peak he never would have been more than 4th or 5th choice 10 for us.

He's definitely less an example of the system failing and more an example of the road less traveled working out when the circumstances are right

arsebiscuits1 · 07-03-2021 2:19am

Fredinho wrote: »

Stockdale has to be back in next week

Lowe has been absolutely dire and doesn't deserve to be near the team

Based on?

TRC10 · 07-03-2021 2:23pm

Fredinho wrote: »

Stockdale has to be back in next week

Lowe has been absolutely dire and doesn't deserve to be near the team

Absence makes the heart beat faster.

Also, if Lowe's try v Italy had stood, I guarantee the narrative would be very different.

UAEguy2020 · 07-03-2021 3:13pm

I would have him on the bench next week.

clsmooth · 07-03-2021 3:49pm

Fredinho wrote: »

Stockdale has to be back in next week

Lowe has been absolutely dire and doesn't deserve to be near the team

Stockdale was very quiet last night. Outshined by Baloucoune.

bilston · 07-03-2021 5:53pm

TRC10 wrote: »

Absence makes the heart beat faster.

Also, if Lowe's try v Italy had stood, I guarantee the narrative would be very different.

If Keenan's try against Italy in the Autumn when Stockdale beat about 8 Italian defenders the narrative about Stockdale's full back experience might be different.

bilston · 07-03-2021 5:55pm

clsmooth wrote: »

Stockdale was very quiet last night. Outshined by Baloucoune.

The right wing is a bit of a problem area for Ireland. Baloucoune could get a chance sooner than expected. If the summer tour goes ahead he could get a shot then. I say him into camp now. His two tries last night were outstanding. Serious finishes.

TRC10 · 07-03-2021 9:50pm

bilston wrote: »

If Keenan's try against Italy in the Autumn when Stockdale beat about 8 Italian defenders the narrative about Stockdale's full back experience might be different.

No because Stockdale still has an absolute shocker in Paris.

My point was that Lowe actually played very well in Rome. And if he'd scored the try, more people would see that and there wouldn't be the calls to drop him

Fredinho · 07-03-2021 11:33pm

TRC10 wrote:

Also, if Lowe's try v Italy had stood, I guarantee the narrative would be very different.

But it didn't stand, his foot was in touch so it's a moot point

Fredinho · 07-03-2021 11:37pm

TRC10 wrote:

My point was that Lowe actually played very well in Rome. And if he'd scored the try, more people would see that and there wouldn't be the calls to drop him

Again he didn't score a try so it's irrelevant. Even if he had I'd be saying he should be dropped. Can't defend for toffee. Stockdale whilst not much better tackling is a superior finisher. Lowes level is pro 14 and European cup pools. No place at the business end of things or in the international arena.

TRC10 · 08-03-2021 1:34am

Fredinho wrote: »

But it didn't stand, his foot was in touch so it's a moot point

You're mixing up tries pal. I'm talking about the Italy one.

Also, name a winger that would have finished that chance v France. There isn't one, prime Lomu maybe.

TRC10 · 08-03-2021 1:37am

Fredinho wrote: »

Again he didn't score a try so it's irrelevant. Even if he had I'd be saying he should be dropped. Can't defend for toffee. Stockdale whilst not much better tackling is a superior finisher. Lowes level is pro 14 and European cup pools. No place at the business end of things or in the international arena.

Superior finisher? Stockdale? The guy who has scored 3 tries for Ulster since 2019. In the same period Lowe has scored 12. If Lowe's level is Pro14 then Stockdale is AIL.

topdecko · 08-03-2021 9:21am

Stockdale off the boil for some time. No Way he is a full back and Farrell has to consign that experiment to the dustbin. He is still a capable winger but will remain defensively suspect i think. Don't forget he was red hot and played a big part in win over NZ. Form temp, class etc....

Lowe has been a mixed bag with some offensive flourishes but again numerous defensive positional errors and missed tackles at times.
Got to get the defensive set up right and introduce a counter attack to our game - at moment we simply receive ball and aimlessly punt it back or FB goes into contact and loses ball. No obvious counterattacking threat.

sebdavis · 08-03-2021 9:35am

Fredinho wrote: »

Again he didn't score a try so it's irrelevant. Even if he had I'd be saying he should be dropped. Can't defend for toffee. Stockdale whilst not much better tackling is a superior finisher. Lowes level is pro 14 and European cup pools. No place at the business end of things or in the international arena.

Wasnt he going to play for NZ but he was injured. The NZ public are still a little sore he left.

Lowe is top quality, he hasn't even 10 international caps. Give the lad a chance

Irish fans are crying out to try new players, new player comes in and straight away they want them dumped out of the team. Confusing to me.

yerrahbah · 08-03-2021 11:06am

Stockdale in, Daly out.

JvDF going through return to play protocols

https://www.irishrugby.ie/2021/03/08/jacob-stockdale-returns-to-ireland-squad-ahead-of-scotland-clash/

Daly was unlikely to feature vs England or Scotland anyway

thomond2006 · 08-03-2021 11:06am

Daly is better off at Munster, the last thing he needs is more weekends not playing.

Baloucoune should be there over Stockdale.

08-03-2021 11:09am

He picked the wrong Ulster winger.

Tomtom364 · 08-03-2021 11:16am

Shane Daly.

13/14 Weeks in Ireland camp since October

Opponents
Italy - 2020 6 Nations
France - 2020 6 Nations
Wales - Autumn Nations Cup
England - Autumn Nations Cup
Georgia - Autumn Nations Cup
Scotland - Autumn Nations Cup
Wales - 2021 6 Nations
France - 2021 6 Nations
Italy - 2021 6 Nations

And Farrell gave him 17 minutes off the bench against Georgia.
I know every player wants to be in that squad but that must be very frustrating for him.

awec · 08-03-2021 11:19am

I'm trying to think of a reason why you might select Stockdale over Balacoune and I'm struggling. Balacoune is the braver, smarter call.

Is Farrell so concerned about the next 2 games that he wants experienced heads where possible?

Tomtom364 · 08-03-2021 11:24am

awec wrote: »

I'm trying to think of a reason why you might select Stockdale over Balacoune and I'm struggling. Balacoune is the braver, smarter call.

Is Farrell so concerned about the next 2 games that he wants experienced heads where possible?

Stockdale straight back in at 15? :rolleyes:

aloooof · 08-03-2021 11:29am

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Shane Daly.

13/14 Weeks in Ireland camp since October

Opponents
Italy - 2020 6 Nations
France - 2020 6 Nations
Wales - Autumn Nations Cup
England - Autumn Nations Cup
Georgia - Autumn Nations Cup
Scotland - Autumn Nations Cup
Wales - 2021 6 Nations
France - 2021 6 Nations
Italy - 2021 6 Nations

And Farrell gave him 17 minutes off the bench against Georgia.
I know every player wants to be in that squad but that must be very frustrating for him.

He did brilliantly at FB in Aug / Sept last year for Munster when Haley was out, and there was an argument that he played himself into the first choice 15 jersey.

In the meantime, Haley has come back and is playing great stuff, so Daly now is more likely to start for Munster on the wing now, competing with Earls and a returning Conway. He'll be extremely disappointed, you'd imagine.

awec · 08-03-2021 11:31am

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Stockdale straight back in at 15? :rolleyes:

With Keenan on the wing? Maybe. I think Keenan is doing fine where he is.

bayern · 08-03-2021 11:34am

Stockdale over Lowe for me.

sebdavis · 08-03-2021 11:35am

awec wrote: »

I'm trying to think of a reason why you might select Stockdale over Balacoune and I'm struggling. Balacoune is the braver, smarter call.

Is Farrell so concerned about the next 2 games that he wants experienced heads where possible?

Balacoune was out for longer.
I think, maybe I hope, the IRFU have somewhat learned from rushing players back into international games after a long time out with injury. henshaw lost a few seasons because as soon as he was anyway fit he was shoved into an Ireland jersey to break down. Same with Carbery.

Balacoune from what I know has been out for a significant period. Better to let him get some good game time for Ulster and then bring in

salmocab · 08-03-2021 11:40am

awec wrote: »

I'm trying to think of a reason why you might select Stockdale over Balacoune and I'm struggling. Balacoune is the braver, smarter call.

Is Farrell so concerned about the next 2 games that he wants experienced heads where possible?

There only 2 weeks left, Balacoune has spent very little time with the squad and it’s unlikely he was getting game time whereas whether he’s in the immediate plan or not stockdale has been a member of the squad regardless of missed time recently. Balacoune will I’m sure be in the next set of games when they happen. Honestly I’d have been surprised if he had gone the other way.

thomond2006 · 08-03-2021 11:40am

I know you cannot select exclusively on form, but leaving out Baloucoune and Daly over Stockdale and Conway suggest that these decisions were made prior to the weekend.

bayern · 08-03-2021 11:42am

Daly is injured.

ionadnapokot · 08-03-2021 11:50am

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Shane Daly.

13/14 Weeks in Ireland camp since October

Opponents
Italy - 2020 6 Nations
France - 2020 6 Nations
Wales - Autumn Nations Cup
England - Autumn Nations Cup
Georgia - Autumn Nations Cup
Scotland - Autumn Nations Cup
Wales - 2021 6 Nations
France - 2021 6 Nations
Italy - 2021 6 Nations

And Farrell gave him 17 minutes off the bench against Georgia.
I know every player wants to be in that squad but that must be very frustrating for him.

If Baloucoune was picked i'd expect a similar fate v Scot and Eng

Personally i'd have had him on the bench v Scot and Eng
15 Kennan 14 Larmour 11 Lowe 23 Baloucoune

Tomtom364 · 08-03-2021 11:56am

bayern wrote: »

Daly is injured.

Bar a tag line on the42 I don't see any injury mentioned anywhere for Daly. Nothing in the IRFU release about it.

08-03-2021 11:57am

I didn't notice Conway back in, that's an even worse decision than Stockdale. Farrell has brought in a few new faces and is giving them gametime which is good (though even looking at the France game, it's experience first and fill gaps second), but if you're an established player it seems you just need to have all your limbs attached and you're in the squad.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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