Once you see people pleading you to do something

sabat · 09-02-2021 12:21am

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I strongly suggest reading the actual report instead of some hysterical Covid denial blog site

The report:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting

No. The blog twists the facts and context into something their audience wants to hear. The actual context is below.

So they're using people as subjects in a trial of their new type of medication is what you're saying. That's grand so. Those 634 people would have spontaneously developed eye disorders too I presume.

King Mob · 09-02-2021 12:28am

sabat wrote: »

So they're using people as subjects in a trial of their new type of medication is what you're saying. That's grand so. Those 634 people would have spontaneously developed eye disorders too I presume.

How do you know that this was due to the vaccine and not just with the vaccine?

Dohnjoe · 09-02-2021 12:33am

sabat wrote: »

So they're using people as subjects in a trial of their new type of medication is what you're saying. That's grand so.

Nope, not what I wrote at all. The report is very clear on what yellow cards are, and what the context is.

mfceiling · 09-02-2021 12:39am

McGinniesta wrote: »

He clearly has no experience or qualifications in the area and on this basis I feel it is reasonable that people should questions his motives. The same applies to anyone who doesn't have medical qualifications.

Maybe, just maybe he is a decent human being and is putting his money to better humankind.

Or maybe he wants to control the entire world population. Not sure what he'll do with them myself personally. I have an 80 year old uncle who enjoys gardening....I wonder what plans big scary Bill has for him?

growleaves · 09-02-2021 12:51am

mfceiling wrote: »

Maybe, just maybe he is a decent human being and is putting his money to better humankind.

Or maybe he wants to control the entire world population. Not sure what he'll do with them myself personally. I have an 80 year old uncle who enjoys gardening....I wonder what plans big scary Bill has for him?

He was a predatory capitalist when he was in the computer software business. More recently he's been buying up land all over the United States. Consolidating wealth in the form of property assets basically.

I've no reason to believe the powerful and wealthy have my best interests at heart. You scoffing at the idea that they don't have my best interests at heart doesn't settle the matter. Please see basically any history book from any century for examples of bad, self-interested behaviour on the part of such people.

Dohnjoe · 09-02-2021 1:16am

growleaves wrote: »

He was a predatory capitalist when he was in the computer software business. More recently he's been buying up land all over the United States. Consolidating wealth in the form of property assets basically.

He's giving away over 99% of his wealth..

Dohnjoe · 09-02-2021 1:37am

Once again note the predictable pattern in this thread

"I don't trust vaccines"
"I don't trust someone who is giving away all their wealth"
"I don't trust information about Covid"
"I don't trust anti-Covid measures"

Always the same hallmarks. Anti-science, anti-expertise, general ignorance and paranoia of authority

King Mob · 09-02-2021 2:45am

growleaves wrote: »

He was a predatory capitalist when he was in the computer software business. More recently he's been buying up land all over the United States. Consolidating wealth in the form of property assets basically.

I've no reason to believe the powerful and wealthy have my best interests at heart. You scoffing at the idea that they don't have my best interests at heart doesn't settle the matter. Please see basically any history book from any century for examples of bad, self-interested behaviour on the part of such people.

Ok. What do you believe Bill Gates is really up to?

People here have been suggesting that it's a plot to turn everyone into cyborgs or a plot to depopulate the planet.
These ideas are pretty silly and deserve to be scoffed at.
Do you agree?

aido79 · 09-02-2021 9:23am

King Mob wrote: »

Ok. What do you believe Bill Gates is really up to?

People here have been suggesting that it's a plot to turn everyone into cyborgs or a plot to depopulate the planet.
These ideas are pretty silly and deserve to be scoffed at.
Do you agree?

The part I find funny is that the richest man in the world (depending on what week you look at it) is pumping huge amounts of money and research into actually putting implants in people's brains never gets a mention in any of these discussions.... possibly because he has made a few sceptical remarks about covid so they don't suspect him of any malice.

King Mob · 09-02-2021 10:00am

aido79 wrote: »

The part I find funny is that the richest man in the world (depending on what week you look at it) is pumping huge amounts of money and research into actually putting implants in people's brains never gets a mention in any of these discussions.... possibly because he has made a few sceptical remarks about covid so they don't suspect him of any malice.

When the Bill Gates theories stop making as much revenue and traffic, I'm sure they'll get around to him and Musk as well.

aido79 · 09-02-2021 10:27am

King Mob wrote: »

When the Bill Gates theories stop making as much revenue and traffic, I'm sure they'll get around to him and Musk as well.

It's actually Musk that is working on the brain implants through his Neuralink project.
Bezos is following Bill's path and stepping down as CEO of Amazon so he can concentrate on his New World Order plans or world domination....depending on what you read or make up.
They are definitely future targets for conspiracy theorists when they're finished with covid.

storker · 09-02-2021 3:31pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Once again note the predictable pattern in this thread

"I don't trust vaccines"
"I don't trust someone who is giving away all their wealth"
"I don't trust information about Covid"
"I don't trust anti-Covid measures"

Always the same hallmarks. Anti-science, anti-expertise, general ignorance and paranoia of authority

"But..but...my ignorance is just as good as anyone else's expertise! And I researched my facts thoroughly - on Twitter and YouTube...so there!"

sabat · 09-02-2021 5:26pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Once again note the predictable pattern in this thread

"I don't trust vaccines"
"I don't trust someone who is giving away all their wealth"
"I don't trust information about Covid"
"I don't trust anti-Covid measures"

Always the same hallmarks. Anti-science, anti-expertise, general ignorance and paranoia of authority

Bill Gates's wealth has doubled since he made that pledge. He's now 65 and worth $140 billion and continues to hoover up assets-recently making himself the largest holder of arable land in the USA. Distributing money through foundations that follow your own personal agendas is not altruism.

ohnonotgmail · 09-02-2021 5:33pm

sabat wrote: »

Bill Gates's wealth has doubled since he made that pledge. He's now 65 and worth $140 billion and continues to hoover up assets-recently making himself the largest holder of arable land in the USA. Distributing money through foundations that follow your own personal agendas is not altruism.

the people who have benefited from that altruism might disagree with you. If it isn't altruism what is it? how has he personally benefited from financing the delivery of mosquito nets?

King Mob · 09-02-2021 5:35pm

sabat wrote: »

Bill Gates's wealth has doubled since he made that pledge. He's now 65 and worth $140 billion and continues to hoover up assets-recently making himself the largest holder of arable land in the USA. Distributing money through foundations that follow your own personal agendas is not altruism.

Again, no source for any of that.
Why do you expect people to take you word for all of this when you have been abjectly dishonest about pretty much all of your beliefs?

What has any of this to do with the vaccines and your false claims about them?

What's Bill Gates' goal with the vaccines?

aido79 · 09-02-2021 5:50pm

sabat wrote: »

Bill Gates's wealth has doubled since he made that pledge. He's now 65 and worth $140 billion and continues to hoover up assets-recently making himself the largest holder of arable land in the USA. Distributing money through foundations that follow your own personal agendas is not altruism.

So he's giving away twice as much now than he was when he made the pledge? Fair play to him.

What do you think he's going to do with the land? Helping to solve world hunger seems close to his and his wife's hearts but maybe he's using it to harvest a new organic pathogen for the next pandemic he has in his plans?

What exactly do you think his personal agendas are?

silliussoddius · 09-02-2021 5:54pm

King Mob wrote: »

Again, no source for any of that.
Why do you expect people to take you word for all of this when you have been abjectly dishonest about pretty much all of your beliefs?

What has any of this to do with the vaccines and your false claims about them?

What's Bill Gates' goal with the vaccines?

He has bought a lot of land. The way it's made out above, you'd think he's walking around in wellies, with a mangy sheepdog with bailer twine for a belt building FEMA camps.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielshapiro/2021/01/14/americas-biggest-owner-of-farmland-is-now-bill-gates-bezos-turner/?sh=944dceb6096f

King Mob · 09-02-2021 5:56pm

silliussoddius wrote: »

He has bought a lot of land. The way it's made out above, you'd think he's walking around in wellies, with a mangy sheepdog with bailer twine for a belt building FEMA camps.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielshapiro/2021/01/14/americas-biggest-owner-of-farmland-is-now-bill-gates-bezos-turner/?sh=944dceb6096f

It is not entirely clear how Gates’ farmland is being used, or whether any of the land is being set aside for conservation. (Cascade did not return Forbes’ request for comment.) However, there is some indication that the land could be used in a way that aligns with the foundation’s values. Cottonwood Ag Management, a subsidiary of Cascade, is a member of Leading Harvest, a nonprofit that promotes sustainable agriculture standards that prioritize protections of crops, soil and water resources.

The monster...

ohnonotgmail · 09-02-2021 6:04pm

King Mob wrote: »

The monster...

I knew he was a complete bastard, I just knew it.

growleaves · 09-02-2021 6:19pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

He's giving away over 99% of his wealth..

He's dumping his money into his own 'charity' foundation which then implements the initiatives he favours. That's not giving away wealth.

Always the same hallmarks. Anti-science, anti-expertise, general ignorance and paranoia of authority

He's not a scientist or expert. He's a billionaire who buys up real estate.

We obviously differ about public figures and institutions. I don't feel that I owe them any sort of trust or benefit of the doubt. Who are they to me?

King Mob wrote: »

Ok. What do you believe Bill Gates is really up to?

People here have been suggesting that it's a plot to turn everyone into cyborgs or a plot to depopulate the planet.
These ideas are pretty silly and deserve to be scoffed at.
Do you agree?

I don't know what Bill Gates' "agenda" is. I don't feel beholden to him in any way. He has spoken about Malthus and population control before on record hence he is suspected by many people of wanting de-population.

Transhumanism is something that many people support and place their hopes in as a way of overcoming death. I'm totally opposed to it for humanist and religious reasons.

Now obviously if people such as Scwab and Gates do not regard it as evil but as good and try to promote it I am going to oppose them. The "conspiracy" angle is that they will use their wealth and power to try to make it a fait accompli and yes, impose it. I'm not saying that will happen but I am open it being possible.

In any case their priorities are so different from mine I would be mad to go along with them. I would rather wealth and power were in the hands of someone else but that isn't happening.

You may support or oppose transhumanism, I've no idea, but if you oppose it you would surely not be happy that globally influential people support it.

growleaves · 09-02-2021 6:22pm

Always the same hallmarks. Anti-science, anti-expertise, general ignorance and paranoia of authority

Also Bill Gates is not a person in authority. Being rich does not make you an authority, not even in the United States but especially not in Ireland.

ohnonotgmail · 09-02-2021 6:23pm

growleaves wrote: »

Also Bill Gates is not a person in authority. Being rich does not make you an authority, not even in the United States but especially not in Ireland.

that is absolutely correct. Has he claimed to be an authority?

MrStuffins · 09-02-2021 6:24pm

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Who decides what is and isn't "science"?

I know i'm late to the thread and this is from page one, but my God it has to be one of the most brain-numbing questions i've ever read on the internet!

How people can have all of the world's info at their finger tips and still ask questions like the above. Mother of God!

sabat · 09-02-2021 8:42pm

MrStuffins wrote: »

I know i'm late to the thread and this is from page one, but my God it has to be one of the most brain-numbing questions i've ever read on the internet!

How people can have all of the world's info at their finger tips and still ask questions like the above. Mother of God!

Here's a good example of who decides what is and isn't science these days:

This tinfoil hat wearing imbecile who gets all his information from youtube videos has come out against the vaccine:

Bhakdi studied at the Universities of Bonn, Gießen, Mainz and Copenhagen, and at the Max Planck Institute of Immunobiology and Epigenetics in Freiburg.[3]

He studied medicine at the University of Bonn from 1963 to 1970, during part of which (from 1966 to 1970) he was a scholarship holder of the German Academic Exchange Service.[6] Bhakdi worked for a while as a private assistant to the internal medicine specialist Walter Siegenthaler.[5] In February 1971 he received his doctorate in medicine. From 1972 to 1978, he studied at the Max Planck Institute for Immunobiology in Freiburg on scholarships from the Max Planck Society at the Max Planck Institute of Immunobiology in Freiburg and the Alexander von Humboldt Foundation.[3]

He worked at the University of Copenhagen for a year before moving to the Institute of Medical Microbiology at the Justus Liebig University in Gießen, where he worked from 1977 to 1990. In July 1979 he habilitated.

Bhakdi was appointed C2 professor at Gießen in 1982. He spent a further year in Copenhagen and became C3 professor of medical microbiology (at Gießen again) in 1987 before being appointed to the University of Mainz in 1990. From 1991 he headed the Institute of Medical Microbiology and Hygiene as a C4 professor.[3]

Bhakdi retired on 1 April 2012.[7] Since 2016 he has been a visiting scholar at the University of Kiel.[8][9][10]

Prior to his retirement, Bhakdi produced scientific work in fields such as bacteriology and atherosclerosis, and published multiple scientific articles in these areas.[11] Awards he received include the Order of Merit of Rhineland-Palatinate.[12]

He has published 349 academic papers and been cited 18,000 times, including 500 "very influential citations."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sucharit_Bhakdi
https://www.semanticscholar.org/author/S.-Bhakdi/2899495

Thankfully, per the wikipedia article, we have guardians to protect us against these covidiot 5g loons spreading dangerous disinformation-like this fine gentleman of the Council of Foreign Relations and formerly of CIA front Aspen Germany. In his article for prestigious medical journal Foreign Policy he notes sagely that Dr Bhakdi is a "so-called expert minting conspiracy theories and undermining fact-based information."

We are also lucky to have a huge number of independent, non-profit fact-checkers debunking his problematic claims like Correctiv who survive mainly through the benevolence of small donors like a founder of Ebay, the estate of the part owner of Europe's largest magazine, and a humble Hungarian by the name of George Soros. Their top science correspondent Kathrin Wesolowski who-get this- studied journalism and English / American studies in Dortmund and Monterrey , Mexico, and volunteered at the Hessischer Rundfunk, thoroughly put that crank in his place.

https://dgap.org/en/user/267
https://correctiv.org/en/about-us/
https://correctiv.org/team/kathrin-wesolowski/

storker · 10-02-2021 10:47am

sabat wrote: »

Here's a good example of who decides what is and isn't science these days:

This tinfoil hat wearing imbecile who gets all his information from youtube videos has come out against the vaccine:

He has published 349 academic papers and been cited 18,000 times, including 500 "very influential citations."

Are you claiming that all medical experts who disagree with him are less qualified? Or are his claims the only qualifcation that you're really interested in?

Thankfully, per the wikipedia article, we have guardians to protect us against these covidiot 5g loons spreading dangerous disinformation-like this fine gentleman of the Council of Foreign Relations and formerly of CIA front Aspen Germany. In his article for prestigious medical journal Foreign Policy he notes sagely that Dr Bhakdi is a "so-called expert minting conspiracy theories and undermining fact-based information."

Quite.

We are also lucky to have a huge number of independent, non-profit fact-checkers debunking his problematic claims like Correctiv who survive mainly through the benevolence of small donors like a founder of Ebay, the estate of the part owner of Europe's largest magazine, and a humble Hungarian by the name of George Soros.Their top science correspondent Kathrin Wesolowski who-get this- studied journalism and English / American studies in Dortmund and Monterrey , Mexico, and volunteered at the Hessischer Rundfunk, thoroughly put that crank in his place.

You mean "problematic" claims like saying that COVID-19 is no more dangerous than influenza? No special knowledge needed to debunk that. Or to conclude that his credibility is shot. Except with the lunatic fringe, of course, where his stock goes up.

If you have evidence that any fact-checking organisations are either having their strings pulled or are actually pursuing profits, why don't you post it? If their fact-checking results are wrong, why don't you point out where and how they are in error?

Your post is just the usual collection of innuendo and appeal-to-incredulity. There is no coherent argument here. In essence:

A well-qualified doctor said something that disagreed with the vast majority of the medical profession, therefore he must be right and everyone else must be wrong
His claims were fact-checked, therefore the fact-checking organisations must have an agenda.
Rich people funding fact-checking organisations must be up to something

King Mob · 10-02-2021 10:52am

sabat wrote: »

Here's a good example of who decides what is and isn't science these days:

This tinfoil hat wearing imbecile who gets all his information from youtube videos has come out against the vaccine:

He has published 349 academic papers and been cited 18,000 times, including 500 "very influential citations."

Ok. What evidence has he produced that shows the vaccine is dangerous?

What has this to do with Bill Gates and his agenda?

Are you going to now also run away from the points being brought up about this guy?

King Mob · 10-02-2021 10:57am

growleaves wrote: »

I don't know what Bill Gates' "agenda" is. I don't feel beholden to him in any way. He has spoken about Malthus and population control before on record hence he is suspected by many people of wanting de-population.

Well no, he hasn't spoken about "population control". That's at best a dishonest misrepresentation by conspiracy theorists who believe in silly depopulation conspiracies.
This theorists suspect a great many things that aren't actually true, rational or sane.

growleaves wrote: »

Transhumanism is something that many people support and place their hopes in as a way of overcoming death. I'm totally opposed to it for humanist and religious reasons.

What has this to do with the vaccines?

Other conspiracy theorists, long since having slunk away have suggested that there is a plot to turn people into cyborgs with large antenna sticking out of their heads.

Is this what you are suggesting is the agenda behind vaccines?

I regurgitate the news · 10-02-2021 11:45pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

that is absolutely correct. Has he claimed to be an authority?

Bill Gates: "Things Won't Get Back To Normal Until We Have Gotten A Vaccine Out To The Entire World"

Are you saying he was just giving his opinion or was he laying it out for the entire world?

ohnonotgmail · 10-02-2021 11:47pm

I regurgitate the news wrote: »

Bill Gates: "Things Won't Get Back To Normal Until We Have Gotten A Vaccine Out To The Entire World"

Are you saying he was just giving his opinion or was he laying it out for the entire world?

that certainly sounds like an opinion to me.

I regurgitate the news · 10-02-2021 11:52pm

King Mob wrote: »

Well no, he hasn't spoken about "population control". That's at best a dishonest misrepresentation by conspiracy theorists who believe in silly depopulation conspiracies.
.........

Is this what you are suggesting is the agenda behind vaccines?

Bill Gates:

First, we've got population. The world today has 6.8 billion people. That's headed up to about nine billion. Now, if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by, perhaps, 10 or 15 percent.

I regurgitate the news · 11-02-2021 12:01am

Dohnjoe wrote: »

He's giving away over 99% of his wealth..

Is that how he became the largest landowner in the US?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielshapiro/2021/01/14/americas-biggest-owner-of-farmland-is-now-bill-gates-bezos-turner/

storker · 11-02-2021 1:41am

I regurgitate the news wrote: »

Bill Gates:

First, we've got population. The world today has 6.8 billion people. That's headed up to about nine billion. Now, if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by, perhaps, 10 or 15 percent.

In other words, contraception. Perfectly sensible.

sabat · 11-02-2021 2:11am

Good article about Gates' relationship with the WHO and the ethical issues and potential conflicts it generates:
https://www.politico.eu/article/bill-gates-who-most-powerful-doctor/amp/

I regurgitate the news · 11-02-2021 2:28am

storker wrote: »

In other words, contraception. Perfectly sensible.

Could be. Gates said vaccines are the best investment he's ever made. I would agree.

I don't think he got sued for anything that happened in India where according to a study published in the International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health, 491,000 children developed paralysis as a result of the oral polio vaccine which Gates supported.

You could go online and search this and have the fact checkers report that it is false or you can go to the link for the report by the Indian doctors and researchers for the published article.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30111741/

Am I right in saying no matter what side effects, he cannot be sued?

King Mob · 11-02-2021 2:54am

I regurgitate the news wrote: »

Bill Gates:

First, we've got population. The world today has 6.8 billion people. That's headed up to about nine billion. Now, if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by, perhaps, 10 or 15 percent.

A quote with no source and no context...

Regardless, that's not talking about population control.

What do you think he means by this? How will vaccines lower the population?

storker · 11-02-2021 9:57am

sabat wrote: »

Good article about Gates' relationship with the WHO and the ethical issues and potential conflicts it generates:
https://www.politico.eu/article/bill-gates-who-most-powerful-doctor/amp/

Certainly an interesting article that points out possible unintended consequences of the WHO accepting large donations from business, but there's nothing here that supports any conspiracy theory.

I regurgitate the news · 11-02-2021 5:21pm

King Mob wrote: »

A quote with no source and no context...

Regardless, that's not talking about population control.

What do you think he means by this? How will vaccines lower the population?

The source is Bill Gates Ted talk.

You don't dispute the study published in the International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health where 491,000 children developed paralysis as a result of the oral polio vaccine which Gates supported?

ohnonotgmail · 11-02-2021 5:48pm

I regurgitate the news wrote: »

The source is Bill Gates Ted talk.

You don't dispute the study published in the International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health where 491,000 children developed paralysis as a result of the oral polio vaccine which Gates supported?

correlation or causation? https://www.scidev.net/global/news/oral-polio-drops-linked-to-paralysis-in-india-1x/

is this the article you refer to? https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/15/8/1755

King Mob · 11-02-2021 11:15pm

I regurgitate the news wrote: »

The source is Bill Gates Ted talk.

Ok. So provide the quote and it's context.

I've seen the talk and he doesn't talk about population control.

Again
What do you think he means by this? How will vaccines lower the population?

And no, if you're referring to the study ohnonotgmail post, I don't dispute it.
Are you saying that this was done on purpose?

I regurgitate the news · 11-02-2021 11:35pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

correlation or causation? https://www.scidev.net/global/news/oral-polio-drops-linked-to-paralysis-in-india-1x/

is this the article you refer to? https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/15/8/1755

Did you read the article. The 491,000 cases of paralysis were extra (not the total) in what they would have considered correlation.

I regurgitate the news · 11-02-2021 11:39pm

King Mob wrote: »

Ok. So provide the quote and it's context.

I've seen the talk and he doesn't talk about population control.

Again
What do you think he means by this? How will vaccines lower the population?

And no, if you're referring to the study ohnonotgmail post, I don't dispute it.
Are you saying that this was done on purpose?

I don't know....You'll have to figure it out for yourself.

Do some research on Gate's family and who they associated with and their opinions on the topic.

I doubt you've seen Bill Gates's testimony in relation to the Microsoft Anti Trust trial. Very insightful into the mind of this guy.

King Mob · 11-02-2021 11:48pm

I regurgitate the news wrote: »

I don't know....You'll have to figure it out for yourself.

I'm trying to figure out what your position and beliefs are. The only way I can do this is if you tell me or answer my very simple questions.

You claimed that Bill Gates talked about population control. Yet that's not what he talked about.
Why do you claim he did?

If you don't know how vaccines will result in population control, why do you claim that they will?

If you watched the TED talk, why are you not able to provide the context for the quote and explains what Bill Gates meant?

Personal I suspect that the answer to these questions is that you haven't actually seen the talk in question and you are just parroting conspiracy theory claims.

And again could you please state your opinion about the vaccines in India since you brought it up.
Do you believe those injuries were on purpose or not?

Once you see people pleading you to do something

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