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New Government changes?

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  • 15-04-2020 10:15am
    #1
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭


    So Fianna Fáil and Fianna Gael plus ______. I wonder who we get for Education? Keep Joe McHugh? Thomas Byrne is current spokesperson for Fianna Fáil. Catherine Martin for Green Party. I don’t know much about either of them personally


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    #2
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,412 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    Joe is gone I'd say. Never did much except for the current mess.


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    #3
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    TheDriver wrote: »
    Joe is gone I'd say. Never did much except for the current mess.

    I’d feel the same. Hasn’t made it his own in a way that they’d keep him in it


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    #4
    fed_u
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭fed_u


    Would they keep him for the fact that we are now in an unholy mess re exams and the classroom based JC in September - who would want to step up?


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    #5
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    Come in, cancel the junior cert and set out every aspect of planning for the leaving certs and contingency plans. Look wonderful and that you’ve cleaned up the mess ....


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    #6
    Random sample
    Registered Users Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭Random sample


    I don’t think he’ll keep the job. I think Simon Harris has to stay in position.

    I wouldn’t mind seeing Catherine Martin. She is a teacher though, which probably makes it unlikely.


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    #7
    2011abc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭2011abc


    Yeah Harris DEFINITELY has to stay because a wet behind the ears journalism diploma dropout who got into politics on the coat tails of a disgraced minister forced to resign over Sgt McCabe shambles is indispensable .


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    #8
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,227 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    TheDriver wrote: »
    Joe is gone I'd say. Never did much except for the current mess.

    I approve of his mandatory history policy. Happy he did that.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



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    #9
    km79
    Registered Users Posts: 48,137 ✭✭✭✭km79


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »
    Come in, cancel the junior cert and set out every aspect of planning for the leaving certs and contingency plans. Look wonderful and that you’ve cleaned up the mess ....

    Is it not more likely whomever comes in won’t want to make him look bad in the short term and just push on ?
    Isn’t that how we ended up with Ruairis junior cycle when we all assumed it would just be scrapped at that stage ?


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    #10
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    2011abc wrote: »
    Yeah Harris DEFINITELY has to stay because a wet behind the ears journalism diploma dropout who got into politics on the coat tails of a disgraced minister forced to resign over Sgt McCabe shambles is indispensable .
    He’s everything you’d want in a puppet though.


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    #11
    johnmc2020
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭johnmc2020


    2011abc wrote: »
    Yeah Harris DEFINITELY has to stay because a wet behind the ears journalism diploma dropout who got into politics on the coat tails of a disgraced minister forced to resign over Sgt McCabe shambles is indispensable .

    To be fair to him he's played a blinder throughout this crisis. There's not many politicians out there that could manage this as well as he has - he would be a big loss if replaced.


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    #12
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    johnmc2020 wrote: »
    To be fair to him he's played a blinder throughout this crisis. There's not many politicians out there that could manage this as well as he has - he would be a big loss if replaced.
    Genuinely not sure how you figure that, on any level. He’s just doing what he’s told, and saying what he’s told, which is the right thing to do, in his case, but a monkey could do it.


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    #13
    heldel00
    Registered Users Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭heldel00


    RealJohn wrote: »
    Genuinely not sure how you figure that, on any level. He’s just doing what he’s told, and saying what he’s told, which is the right thing to do, in his case, but a monkey could do it.
    Exactly the same as any government minister yet so many still eff it up.


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    #14
    johnmc2020
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭johnmc2020


    RealJohn wrote: »
    Genuinely not sure how you figure that, on any level. He’s just doing what he’s told, and saying what he’s told, which is the right thing to do, in his case, but a monkey could do it.

    What a stupid statement.

    Sure all teachers are monkeys too then I suppose because you're all told exactly what to teach.


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    #15
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    johnmc2020 wrote: »
    What a stupid statement.

    Sure all teachers are monkeys too then I suppose because you're all told exactly what to teach.
    Well that’s not true, for a start, but there’s a difference between teaching something and reading a prepared statement a couple of times a week. I would have thought you’d understand that.


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    #16
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,248 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    RealJohn wrote: »
    Well that’s not true, for a start, but there’s a difference between teaching something and reading a prepared statement a couple of times a week. I would have thought you’d understand that.


    If you believe that reading a prepared statement a couple of times a week is what a Minister does, you are as ignorant about them as those who criticise teachers are ignorant about teaching.


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    #17
    johnmc2020
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭johnmc2020


    RealJohn wrote: »
    Well that’s not true, for a start, but there’s a difference between teaching something and reading a prepared statement a couple of times a week. I would have thought you’d understand that.

    Wow, the ignorance here is something else. I think you're doing your profession a serious disservice coming out with rubbish like this.


    blanch152 wrote: »
    If you believe that reading a prepared statement a couple of times a week is what a Minister does, you are as ignorant about them as those who criticise teachers are ignorant about teaching.


    Exactly, well said.


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    #18
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    blanch152 wrote: »
    If you believe that reading a prepared statement a couple of times a week is what a Minister does, you are as ignorant about them as those who criticise teachers are ignorant about teaching.
    Well, he’s certainly never given any indication that he does anything else, and he has no expertise in anything, so you’ll excuse me if I’m not convinced he’s anything more than a puppet.


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    #19
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    johnmc2020 wrote: »
    Wow, the ignorance here is something else. I think you're doing your profession a serious disservice coming out with rubbish like this.
    What has my profession got to do with my view on puppets?


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    #20
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,248 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    RealJohn wrote: »
    Well, he’s certainly never given any indication that he does anything else, and he has no expertise in anything, so you’ll excuse me if I’m not convinced he’s anything more than a puppet.


    People could say that their experience of teachers is that they have never given any indication that they do anything other than arrive in unprepared at the start of the lesson and pick up where they left off the last day in a haphazard fashion while spending most of their life on holiday. You would correctly criticise them for their lack of knowledge and understanding of the profession of teaching.

    Your criticism of the Minister falls into the same category of uninformed nonsense.


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    #21
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    blanch152 wrote: »
    People could say that their experience of teachers is that they have never given any indication that they do anything other than arrive in unprepared at the start of the lesson and pick up where they left off the last day in a haphazard fashion while spending most of their life on holiday. You would correctly criticise them for their lack of knowledge and understanding of the profession of teaching.

    Your criticism of the Minister falls into the same category of uninformed nonsense.
    Teachers have actual training to do their jobs, that’s easily checked by those they’re accountable to.
    Most politicians have a track record that indicates their suitability for their job. Harris doesn’t.


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    #22
    johnmc2020
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭johnmc2020


    RealJohn wrote: »
    Teachers have actual training to do their jobs, that’s easily checked by those they’re accountable to.
    Most politicians have a track record that indicates their suitability for their job. Harris doesn’t.

    Teachers may have training but in reality don't have much accountability, my kids have had countless bad teachers in their time but there's little that can or could be done about them.

    Politicians are accountable to the electorate, if they aren't seen to be doing what they should then they'll lose their job at the next election - it's a far tougher position to be in and I think anyone who puts themselves forward for such roles should be commended.

    Would you be happier if Harris went off and got a MPH or something? Like you said earlier he has experts who advise him - politicians aren't expected to be experts in a particular field, rather they represent the general public. They are the link between the "experts" and the electorate.


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    #23
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,774 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    It's because of a 'no confidence' in Harris that we actually had an election only a few months back. FF couldn't back him he was that bad.


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    #24
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    johnmc2020 wrote: »
    What a stupid statement.

    Sure all teachers are monkeys too then I suppose because you're all told exactly what to teach.
    The curriculum is specifically designed in such a way that you can choose what to teach.


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    #25
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    johnmc2020 wrote: »
    Teachers may have training but in reality don't have much accountability, my kids have had countless bad teachers in their time but there's little that can or could be done about them.
    That explains a lot.
    johnmc2020 wrote: »
    Politicians are accountable to the electorate, if they aren't seen to be doing what they should then they'll lose their job at the next election - it's a far tougher position to be in and I think anyone who puts themselves forward for such roles should be commended.
    They’re not though. The electorate can only get them out if there’s a general election, and even when they’re clearly incompetent, if their government partners choose to support them (which they invariably do), they can’t even be removed by the other elected representatives.
    johnmc2020 wrote: »
    Would you be happier if Harris went off and got a MPH or something? Like you said earlier he has experts who advise him - politicians aren't expected to be experts in a particular field, rather they represent the general public. They are the link between the "experts" and the electorate.
    I’d certainly have more confidence if he went off and got some sort of qualification, but the main thing is that he goes off. If all he has to be is a link between the experts and the general public, how is he doing so a good job?
    For the record, I’m not claiming he’s doing a bad job right now. I’m saying he’s done a bad job overall, as evidenced by his multiple failures throughout his ministries (not necessarily all of his making, but he certainly didn’t prevent then), and a vote of no confidence.

    Obviously, removing him in the middle of a crisis would probably be a bad idea but he shouldn’t be in his position in the first place, and it’s nonsense to claim he’s doing a particularly good job.


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    #26
    johnmc2020
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭johnmc2020


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    It's because of a 'no confidence' in Harris that we actually had an election only a few months back. FF couldn't back him he was that bad.

    Yeah exactly, he was held accountable and the outcome was his reelection.

    s1ippy wrote: »
    The curriculum is specifically designed in such a way that you can choose what to teach.


    The curriculum tells you what to teach, perhaps theres leeway in how you teach it but you definitely don't have choice (bar perhaps some small choice in English novels etc.) in what to teach.

    I double checked to make sure I'm not going mad.. take Biology for example; https://www.curriculumonline.ie/getmedia/0cc3a7ac-fd8c-4612-8e4d-81cd82482abc/SCSEC07_Biology_Syllabus_Eng.pdf

    H.3.4.8 The Nephron as a Unit of Kidney Function:

    The nephron structure and its associated
    blood supply. Formation of urine:
    Bowman’s capsule, passage of glomerular
    filtrate through the proximal convoluted
    tubule, where reabsorption of required body
    substances takes place – glucose, amino
    acids, some salts and water reabsorbed into
    the blood by osmosis, diffusion, and active
    transport. More water reabsorbed in the
    Loop of Henle and the distal convoluted
    tube. Urine passes into the pelvis of the
    kidney and to the bladder for storage.
    Reabsorption of water in the collecting duct
    is under hormonal influence (ADH).
    Its action depends on the water content
    of the blood.
    (No further details required).

    It literally tells you exactly what to teach, there's no ambiguity.

    RealJohn wrote: »
    That explains a lot.

    They’re not though. The electorate can only get them out if there’s a general election, and even when they’re clearly incompetent, if their government partners choose to support them (which they invariably do), they can’t even be removed by the other elected representatives.

    I’d certainly have more confidence if he went off and got some sort of qualification, but the main thing is that he goes off. If all he has to be is a link between the experts and the general public, how is he doing so a good job?
    For the record, I’m not claiming he’s doing a bad job right now. I’m saying he’s done a bad job overall, as evidenced by his multiple failures throughout his ministries (not necessarily all of his making, but he certainly didn’t prevent then), and a vote of no confidence.

    Obviously, removing him in the middle of a crisis would probably be a bad idea but he shouldn’t be in his position in the first place, and it’s nonsense to claim he’s doing a particularly good job.

    Yeah and there was a general election? I'm not seeing your point.

    I just think moving up the ranks in politics is very different to moving up the ranks in other areas, it's really not about qualifications or academic success. Your party and the electorate judge your experience and performance to date and you progress when you are seen to be good at the job.

    Anyway I'm going to leave it at that, apologies for going off-topic.


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    #27
    2011abc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭2011abc


    How many ‘PR consultants ‘at a cost of how many tax payers’ millions are being employed by the government to post on pages like this and Facebook .Its so obvious it’s blatant at this stage .Jeez ...


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    #28
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,412 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    2011abc wrote: »
    How many ‘PR consultants ‘at a cost of how many tax payers’ millions are being employed by the government to post on pages like this and Facebook .Its so obvious it’s blatant at this stage .Jeez ...

    Feel free to report any post you feel is a plant. Ironically we are mostly employed by the Government.


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    #29
    km79
    Registered Users Posts: 48,137 ✭✭✭✭km79


    One irish indo reporter is tipping RUAIRI QUINN


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    #30
    deiseindublin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,259 ✭✭✭deiseindublin


    RQ would be a bad joke. Look what he did to JC?


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    #31
    doc_17
    Registered Users Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭doc_17


    The likelihood is that McHigh, Byrne nor Martin will be minister. Too many big hitters in the parties will have to be appeased first. The early talk is Dara Calleary. What a sh** sandwich that would be. He is horrible to listen to. Plus, wasn’t he a junior minister in the worst government in the history of the state? The one that brought us cap in hand to the IMF? Disgraceful that someone like that could be back.

    And to think, there’s a non teacher in here spouting about “being held accountable for performance”. Give us a break and take a hike. And cop on.


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