Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

spacecoyote · 25-07-2018 9:34am

Thepoet85 wrote: »

Absolutely incredible. Orwellian would be an understatement. And he's the one shouting "Fake News".

I'd be interested to see how his supporters here spin this one.

They'll probably try a roll-back & shift the blame it on that sneaky white house stenographer that quit around the time of the summit trying to sabotage the white house or some rubbish like that.

Whatever way they soon it, it'll be delivered with complete derision by SHS no doubt

pixelburp · 25-07-2018 9:34am

Less than 24 hours after Trump told a captured audience not to trust anything they read or hear, but to trust him.

Like... I get this is a serious political forum - but COME ON.

Lex Luthor operated with more cunning and smarts than this clown car of wannabe autocrats, and how the hell are we supposed to seriously discuss an administration that operates with this level of rank contempt for normal procedures or decencies? To take seriously anyone who thinks - yup - a casual erosion of basic protocols is a small price to pay for going on some form of populist bender. Take that pesky libs with your silly expectations of fairness.

Trent Houseboat · 25-07-2018 9:34am

Spoiler alert on how his supporters will spin this:
They don't care and probably will not address it.

Quin_Dub · 25-07-2018 9:36am

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Mod note:

New Thread for discussion of Donald Trump. Towards the end of the last one things were getting a bit personal, so let's try to avoid that this time around.

Same rules apply re: link dumps, one liners etc. Other than that I hope you all enjoy a robust and illuminating debate.

I'm going to refer everyone to the opening post of this new thread.

Cop yourselves on.

Thank you.

everlast75 · 25-07-2018 9:36am

Here's a link to the tape (with intro) if ye want to hear it

https://twitter.com/CuomoPrimeTime/status/1021926239756537857?s=19

jooksavage · 25-07-2018 9:40am

Thepoet85 wrote: »

Absolutely incredible. Orwellian would be an understatement. And he's the one shouting "Fake News".

I'd be interested to see how his supporters here spin this one.

Coupled with Trump's comments from yesterday to assembled veterans, it's pretty Orwellian:

"Just remember: What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening." So basically, don't trust anything you see or hear. Look to me for truth.

1984's Oceania was based on Stalinist Soviet Union, it's not a fantasy Orwell plucked from his imagination. We're definitely gone past the point of comparing Trump to this or that authoritarian leader. It's pretty obvious what he'd do if he found himself in the shoes of those monsters. The only thing that remains to be seen is if the US government and it's people can stand up to him.

Leroy42 · 25-07-2018 9:48am

A man that even his supporters accept is a liar, is telling people not to believe what is in front of their eyes or what they can hear, but to believe him?

Maybe he misspoke though. May be meant to say "Is what's happening". Poor fella. Another brilliant and epoch defining speech lost to the world

Pelvis · 25-07-2018 9:52am

everlast75 wrote: »

Here's a link to the tape (with intro) if ye want to hear it

https://twitter.com/CuomoPrimeTime/status/1021926239756537857?s=19

Well, I have to presume there's more to it than that contained in the other recordings.

StringerBell · 25-07-2018 10:02am

That particular tape is s red herring imo and I'm saddened no outlet has managed to see it for what it is.

There's no crime at all on the tape so what do you have, possible proof the president is a liar and can't be trusted at his word?

So what? His supporters know this and don't care, his detractors know this too and they also know at this point his supporters don't care so what does it achieve?

It is possibly a signal Trump and Cohen's relationship is done, again nothing Earth shattering. The WH lied about the content of the tape, they lie now regularly. When the tape was played and they were found to be lying about the content they provided a statement of epically nonsensical proportions that they would have to know nobody is going to believe, as it makes zero sense and is not possibly true. They don't care, that was evident with the amount of effort they put into their response.

It isn't going to change anything for anybody on either side and there is no crime. Hey they stopped talking about Russia and Helsinki though. Stopped talking about how putin went against the US the first opportunity he had after Helsinki when he was supposed to show how Russia could be a friend to the states. Nobody giving much focus to how North Korea isn't going the way it was supposed to either. Trade war not the easy thing to win it was supposed to be either.

Look if there's more tapes with something actually constituting a crime on it, great get it out there. This one isn't much behind a headline, poor quality audio, enough ambiguity that Trump's side can push a narrative and not get pinned down by it and further evidence be is a liar and a shady businessman, basically no new information.

Cohen is going to have an uphill battle convincing the American people he is a sympathetic character too and he doesn't come out of it looking anything but what we have been told about him ethically.

Trump waived his attorney client privilege when it came to that tape, you have got to wonder why that is. There isn't anything to actually hurt him on it in my mind, I've listened to it a lot. A lot. I am sure of what he is saying on it and what intent it speaks to, but it has very little relevance going forward.

Penn · 25-07-2018 10:04am

Pelvis wrote: »

Well, I have to presume there's more to it than that contained in the other recordings.

Likely, but there's still enough in that tape to be of concern. Trump previously claimed he had no knowledge of any such payments and Cohen was working on his own, but now we can hear Trump authorising it. It would have been done so as to not have it made public during the campaign which, if they used campaign funds for it, would be illegal. Trump and his team previously waived attorney-client privilege with regards to Cohen so this is proof the tapes can be made public. And the tape was released by Cohen's lawyers, presumably to show Cohen was working under the orders of Trump, which may show Cohen is turning on Trump and may flip on him with regards other matters (they obviously wouldn't make anything public which would have a serious effect on Mueller's investigation).

If for example Cohen says the money to pay off MacDougal was from campaign funds, that tape effectively shows Trump ordering it. His lawyers may be able to say Trump never said to pay for it with campaign funds, but it could still be used against Trump in a serious way and lead to other revelations.

B0jangles · 25-07-2018 10:06am

Even if the publically released tape contains nothing actually criminal, just sleazy, it's useful as proof to Trump and his cronies that the Cohen tapes are actually real and that Mueller has them - Trump knows what else he discussed with Cohen so he knows what else could have been recorded.

weisses · 25-07-2018 10:09am

Cortez running against Trump ?

Fox news is taking shots at her already

Plus they had a piece about a conservative going to one of her rallies

https://thinkprogress.org/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-virginia-kruta-fox-and-friends-daily-caller-rally-c7e6bd164cd1/

Its beyond believe at this stage

Hande hoche! · 25-07-2018 10:10am

Am intrigued as to what's on the other tapes. If the McDougal one is just a teaser, it could spell trouble for Trump and co. On the other hand, if it is the worst of the lot, can't see it doing lasting damage.

Leroy42 · 25-07-2018 10:16am

StringerBell wrote: »

That particular tape is s red herring imo and I'm saddened no outlet has managed to see it for what it is.

There's no crime at all on the tape so what do you have, possible proof the president is a liar and can't be trusted at his word?

So what? His supporters know this and don't care, his detractors know this too and they also know at this point his supporters don't care so what does it achieve?

It is possibly a signal Trump and Cohen's relationship is done, again nothing Earth shattering. The WH lied about the content of the tape, they lie now regularly. When the tape was played and they were found to be lying about the content they provided a statement of epically nonsensical proportions that they would have to know nobody is going to believe, as it makes zero sense and is not possibly true. They don't care, that was evident with the amount of effort they put into their response.

It isn't going to change anything for anybody on either side and there is no crime. Hey they stopped talking about Russia and Helsinki though. Stopped talking about how putin went against the US the first opportunity he had after Helsinki when he was supposed to show how Russia could be a friend to the states. Nobody giving much focus to how North Korea isn't going the way it was supposed to either. Trade war not the easy thing to win it was supposed to be either.

Look if there's more tapes with something actually constituting a crime on it, great get it out there. This one isn't much behind a headline, poor quality audio, enough ambiguity that Trump's side can push a narrative and not get pinned down by it and further evidence be is a liar and a shady businessman, basically no new information.

Cohen is going to have an uphill battle convincing the American people he is a sympathetic character too and he doesn't come out of it looking anything but what we have been told about him ethically.

Trump waived his attorney client privilege when it came to that tape, you have got to wonder why that is. There isn't anything to actually hurt him on it in my mind, I've listened to it a lot. A lot. I am sure of what he is saying on it and what intent it speaks to, but it has very little relevance going forward.

But on that basis there is no point bringing up anything Trump does!

Is there a crime? That will be up to the legal system to decide, but it sails very close to election spending fraud for starters. Trump claimed to know nothing about any of these payments. Do he think he did that to hide the affairs? No, he knows his supporters don't care.

But the legal system might. He mentions cash in the tape, that and setting up a dummy corporation, scream of trying to hide the payment.

That David (it is presumed Pecker owner of National Enquirer, but could also mean Denilson (the name used for Trump on the Stormy Docs) was mentioned indicates that the NE was working on the instruction or at least the knowledge of Trump. That would certainly be considered an election donation.

And to add, all 'evidence' doesn't need to be the smoking gun. It is a piece by piece breakdown of any defence. Trump first claimed the allegations of affairs were false, and thus so were the payments. Then the affairs might have happened, but he knew nothing of payments. Then he night have known about payments but not what they were for.

This tapes blows all that out of the water. For his base, I accept it makes no difference. But legally he is getting further and further in the mire. He has a clear record of lying. His lawyers have a clear record of lying. This will allow Mueller and the other investigations to keep digging. It becomes harder and harder for Trump to argue that there is nothing to answer. That is the real threat to Trump.

He would love if all of this would simply go away. But tapes like this, show there is very much a case to be investigated.

The final take away, since Cohen's own lawyer gave this tape to CNN, is that Cohen has flipped or is sending out a clear sign that if Trump doesn't take action soon to clear Cohen he will. That he gave it to CNN, the very centre of ire for Trump in terms of Fake News, shows that Cohen is now looking at a very different audience then Trump is.

pixelburp · 25-07-2018 10:21am

weisses wrote: »

Cortez running against Trump ?

Fox news is taking shots at her already

Plus they had a piece about a conservative going to one of her rallies

https://thinkprogress.org/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-virginia-kruta-fox-and-friends-daily-caller-rally-c7e6bd164cd1/

Its beyond believe at this stage

The kneejerk reaction when conservatives of that ilk are confronted with progressive policies is usually fear about increased taxation (see the stereotype over "tax & spend" Democrats) or an uptick in government oversight, which is a traditional bugbear for a lot of Americans. Over this side of the pond we've generally accepted the necessary evil of centralised governance, and the broad benefits when it comes to socialised policies - but there's an engrained cultural blocker Stateside that equates increased Washington influence with borderline tyranny.

everlast75 · 25-07-2018 10:25am

Leroy42 wrote: »

But on that basis there is no point bringing up anything Trump does!

Is there a crime? That will be up to the legal system to decide, but it sails very close to election spending fraud for starters. Trump claimed to know nothing about any of these payments. Do he think he did that to hide the affairs? No, he knows his supporters don't care.

But the legal system might. He mentions cash in the tape, that and setting up a dummy corporation, scream of trying to hide the payment.

That David (it is presumed Pecker owner of National Enquirer, but could also mean Denilson (the name used for Trump on the Stormy Docs) was mentioned indicates that the NE was working on the instruction or at least the knowledge of Trump. That would certainly be considered an election donation.

Agreed.

What I see it as is another attempt by Cohen to lure the president onto his side.

He was thrown under the bus by Trump on Air Force 1.

His office, home and hotel room were raided.

Trump then stops paying his legal Bills.

Cohen tweets once or twice - nothing from Trump.

Cohen goes and gives an off the mike interview to Stephanopolous - nothing from Trump.

Cohen hires Lanny Davis - nothing from Trump

Cohen says he has tapes - nothing from Trump

Cohen says he will release the tapes - nothing from Trump

Cohen releases one segment of one of the tapes...

Its all going one way. "protect me.. or else"

Hande hoche! · 25-07-2018 10:28am

weisses wrote: »

Cortez running against Trump ?

Fox news is taking shots at her already

Plus they had a piece about a conservative going to one of her rallies

https://thinkprogress.org/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-virginia-kruta-fox-and-friends-daily-caller-rally-c7e6bd164cd1/

Its beyond believe at this stage

Expect a considerable crank up of the volume of such pieces after the midterms.

kilns · 25-07-2018 10:43am

There is definitely more damaging tapes on Trump
But again its just noise, he will ride through this storm just like he did the others with the full support of the Republicans and nothing will come of it

BabyCheeses · 25-07-2018 11:25am

ELM327 wrote: »

Yet another example of this condescension

The point about the bushes was correct.

The meaning was clear. Pointing to where they were born or educated is irrelevant. The bushes are Texans.

Even the superbowl commentary when the bushes did the coin toss referred several times to their Houston residence (even once erroneously as a Houston native).

But the point behind this is that you can apparently feel free to deride me, call me stupid, mock me, all without any sort of moderation.

I thought you supported Trump for his anti PC stance? Classic Trumpist, PC for me, not for thee.

borderlinemeath · 25-07-2018 11:44am

ELM327 wrote: »

The point I was making is clear and still stands.
The whole point, which seems to have been missed by everyone in your titillating race to get the next barb in, is that you won't out Trump Trump, and you need to go the opposite to win. Sensationalism and celebrity (eg Oprah) won't win.

The point regarding Bush senior was perfectly apt as he moved and lived most of his adult life after university in Texas. Same with Barbara.

Sometimes I wonder why I bother, absolutely no point posting when I'm met with an nice equilibrium of loosely concealed aggression, thinly veiled social justice warriorism , and simple "I'm better than you because I'm on the left"....which has now morphed into "I'm better than you because you are a Trump supporter".

The "whole point was missed" because that wasn't the point you were making at all. You're very like Trump in that you say one thing, but then claim to mean another.

I was born in Dublin, I live in the countryside now, but I'm still a Dub, I'll never be a culchie. GWB is a Texan, but the parents certainly weren't.

And lastly, people do think that they are better than you because you admitted on the last thread to being racist, or at the very least supporting the racist rhetoric that Trump espouses. Racism is up there with drink driving, it used to be commonplace and vaguely acceptable, but now it's morally and socially repugnant as well as being against the law. You put the nail in your own coffin when you wrote that reply.

robinph · 25-07-2018 11:58am

Leroy42 wrote: »

...
That David (it is presumed Pecker owner of National Enquirer, but could also mean Denilson (the name used for Trump on the Stormy Docs) was mentioned indicates that the NE was working on the instruction or at least the knowledge of Trump. That would certainly be considered an election donation.
...

The way he said "our friend David" instantly sounded like they were not talking about a real person to me. You couldn't almost hear him winking at the same time as he said it.

dr.fuzzenstein · 25-07-2018 12:36pm

ELM327 wrote: »

All the comments regarding the future democrat nominees for one.
Any time I make a comment I get 10 comments back, ranging from disagreement (which of course is perfectly fine), but then the insults, ranging from mild to egregious, take over

ELM327 wrote: »

People make it a debate about me when they insult me, deride me, and I report the post but no action is taken by the moderators who seem very ok with personal insults once the recipient is a trump supporter

It has to be said though that the tone on this forum is quite civilised, and I say that even though my own posting history is quite a bit uneven. And I have been banned, carded and infracted, not only here, but everywhere on Boards.
But you want insults and abuse?
Go to a Trump friendly forum with less moderation and make some critical remarks about the man. Or even a Facebook groupd sympathetic to him.
It was suggested to me that I prefer sexual ecnounters with goats because I am the result of such a union because my mother had an affair with same goat some years prior.
I was hit with insults that would have been cut from the latest Deadpool movie. I call myself proficient in swearing, but I read things there that would make your eyes bleed.

So you want to experience real hatred, insults and just sheer fury? You go to a Trump friendly forum and criticise the man. Report back.
Just for laughs suggest that immigration being criminalised to the extend it is, is insane and that Obama was at least a president with class and an actual, measurable IQ who could string more than one sentence together.

demfad · 25-07-2018 1:06pm

Penn wrote: »

Likely, but there's still enough in that tape to be of concern. Trump previously claimed he had no knowledge of any such payments and Cohen was working on his own, but now we can hear Trump authorising it. It would have been done so as to not have it made public during the campaign which, if they used campaign funds for it, would be illegal. Trump and his team previously waived attorney-client privilege with regards to Cohen so this is proof the tapes can be made public. And the tape was released by Cohen's lawyers, presumably to show Cohen was working under the orders of Trump, which may show Cohen is turning on Trump and may flip on him with regards other matters (they obviously wouldn't make anything public which would have a serious effect on Mueller's investigation).

If for example Cohen says the money to pay off MacDougal was from campaign funds, that tape effectively shows Trump ordering it. His lawyers may be able to say Trump never said to pay for it with campaign funds, but it could still be used against Trump in a serious way and lead to other revelations.

Also there was another person mentioned that had full knowledge of the background to payment and there was a female voice on the tape most likely his (Trump's) personal secretary. The setting up of shell companies to make and receive payments was how Trump/Cohen dealt with this type of things, and other types of things (money laundering).
Assuming Cohen flips/has flipped he has the goods on all of this going back 20 years.

kilns · 25-07-2018 1:51pm

Trumps tweet is out about the tapes

What kind of a lawyer would tape a client? So sad! Is this a first, never heard of it before? Why was the tape so abruptly terminated (cut) while I was presumably saying positive things? I hear there are other clients and many reporters that are taped - can this be so? Too bad!

Captain Obvious · 25-07-2018 1:51pm

It's interesting to see the combined thinking the is going into Trump's lies now. The official White House transcript of the Putin press briefing came out without the question to Putin asking if he wanted Trump to win, to which he answers yes. At the same time, Trump announces that Putin wouldn't want him to win, a claim which is now not contradicted by the altered transcript the White House released.

According to Rachel Maddow, the video of the press conference has also been edited to remove the question. And the Russian version has the entire question and answer removed completely.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/trump-white-house-edits-putin-support-for-trump-out-of-transcript-1284716611545?playlist=associated

pixelburp · 25-07-2018 1:59pm

kilns wrote: »

Trumps tweet is out about the tapes

What kind of a lawyer would tape a client? So sad! Is this a first, never heard of it before? Why was the tape so abruptly terminated (cut) while I was presumably saying positive things? I hear there are other clients and many reporters that are taped - can this be so? Too bad!

And there's the typical Trump dissembling, coupled with a variant of Betteridge's law of headlines. A pretty blunt, lame attempt at throwing ambiguity by way of imagined tattle - the same tactic he tried all the way back when he was just chief noisemaker in the Birther movement.

Penn · 25-07-2018 2:01pm

Trump wrote:

Why was the tape so abruptly terminated (cut) while I was presumably saying positive things?

Ah, the old "Right after the tape ends I say lots of nice things and prove I didn't collude with Russia and say I hope I never earn a single penny of profit from being President" excuse.

jooksavage · 25-07-2018 2:30pm

Trump now calling out China's "vicious" targeting of his beloved farmers. What did he think as going to happen? He started this war. There's no easy fix for this, tariffs tend to be difficult to remove once in place. Farmers are looking at years of hardship. The compensation initiatives won't win anyone over either - no farmer wants to be living on handouts and the inevitable bureaucracy involved will only ingrain more resentment.

kilns · 25-07-2018 2:38pm

jooksavage wrote: »

Trump now calling out China's "vicious" targeting of his beloved farmers. What did he think as going to happen? He started this war. There's no easy fix for this, tariffs tend to be difficult to remove once in place. Farmers are looking at years of hardship. The compensation initiatives won't win anyone over either - no farmer wants to be living on handouts and the inevitable bureaucracy involved will only ingrain more resentment.

Despite what his supporters say he is the man of the ordinary working people, I would be surprised if he has ever met a farmer in his life

Penn · 25-07-2018 2:55pm

https://www.axios.com/michael-cohen-trump-tapes-lanny-davis-f14f46c7-2856-4dc2-99d8-45c1014c61c8.html

Davis, a damage-control maestro going back to the Clinton administration, told me: "Michael Cohen has made a turn. This is on the record — Michael and I talked about it."

"Michael is going to tell the truth to the powers that be, and let the chips fall where they may."
"I've used this line too many times, but who talks about cash like that besides drug dealers and mobsters?"
Davis said that the tape's release sends the message: "I am no longer the previous Michael Cohen that you knew — taking a bullet for Donald Trump, saying anything to defend him, being a good soldier. ... That is over."
Davis said he was unable to say what Cohen's next move is: "I’m not saying there are more tapes as telling as [this] one, ... but there are more tapes. ... There is more to come."

Hande hoche! · 25-07-2018 3:09pm

North Koreans seem to be dismantling some of the equipment at one of the test sites. Seems to be a positive development.

https://www.38north.org/2018/07/sohae072318/

amandstu · 25-07-2018 3:18pm

jooksavage wrote: »

Trump now calling out China's "vicious" targeting of his beloved farmers. What did he think as going to happen? He started this war. There's no easy fix for this, tariffs tend to be difficult to remove once in place. Farmers are looking at years of hardship. The compensation initiatives won't win anyone over either - no farmer wants to be living on handouts and the inevitable bureaucracy involved will only ingrain more resentment.

Amazing development really. It shows how interconnected the political systems of two supposedly separate countries can be,.

The Chinese are obviously going to retaliate where it hurts most politically (Trumpland) as will the other counties and the EU I guess.

Globalisation extends to political systems too and one state can influence (legitimately) the voting outcomes of other states.

Political alliances can be forged across borders (in terms of practicalities)

Jelle1880 · 25-07-2018 3:22pm

Hande hoche! wrote: »

North Koreans seem to be dismantling some of the equipment at one of the test sites. Seems to be a positive development.

https://www.38north.org/2018/07/sohae072318/

It's supposedly something that can be reversed in a matter of months. I wouldn't put too much hope in this.

amandstu · 25-07-2018 3:24pm

Donald Trump finds water on Mars!

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-44952710

robinph · 25-07-2018 3:53pm

Trump shouldn't be presuming about anything that he has said and done in the past. He either did or he didn't (and I know that is totally interchangeable now and you can switch a couple of days later if things start going a bit wrong).

We can make presumptions about what said after the end of the tape recording, he should be telling us what was said. If we believe him or not is another matter entirely. You don't presume about something that you yourself did in the past.

Leroy42 · 25-07-2018 4:00pm

But that is Trump all over. He doesn't deny (because he can't) what he said so he simply makes up that he said nice things later on. And nice about what? What does that even mean?

Of course, that means that he very much remembers that very conversation, which begs the question as to why he denied it for so long!

irishash · 25-07-2018 4:12pm

Only noticed this recently and it is possible this has been raised before, but on almost all the tweets supporting (or attacking) candidates for office, Trump says the same things over and over again. "[persons name] loves our military, vets and 2nd amendment", "weak stupid [insert democrat name] loves crime and open borders. Weak on military, vets and 2nd amendment.....SAD"

same thing over and over over and over..........Is that all his base care about? Guns, people who use guns for work and people who used to use guns for work but now maybe just use them for pleasure.

Quin_Dub · 25-07-2018 4:13pm

jooksavage wrote: »

Trump now calling out China's "vicious" targeting of his beloved farmers. What did he think as going to happen? He started this war. There's no easy fix for this, tariffs tend to be difficult to remove once in place. Farmers are looking at years of hardship. The compensation initiatives won't win anyone over either - no farmer wants to be living on handouts and the inevitable bureaucracy involved will only ingrain more resentment.

And the irony of it all is that the $12B in supports that Trump has announced to protect farmers from the impact of the Tariff War he started will be funded by.....Money borrowed from China!!!

amandstu · 25-07-2018 4:19pm

Quin_Dub wrote: »

And the irony of it all is that the $12B in supports that Trump has announced to protect farmers from the impact of the Tariff War he started will be funded by.....Money borrowed from China!!!

Lucky money?

Penn · 25-07-2018 4:39pm

Okay, it's looking like the Trump Admin may not have intentionally edited out the question to Putin.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/07/25/no-the-white-house-didnt-intentionally-edit-a-question-to-putin-out-of-a-video/?utm_term=.a1a8d531d707

If you’re wearing headphones, you can notice how the latter part of the question is suddenly audible in the right earpiece. At first, the right channel is only the translator. Mid-question, the reporter is suddenly heard in both left and right as the translator feed drops out. Notice, too, that Putin then picks up his earpiece — through which he can hear the translations — and puts it in his right ear.

Our transcript and the White House’s were apparently based on the feed that runs only in the right channel. A White House official told CNN’s Abby Phillip that its transcript “did not have Mason’s audio turned up in time,” referring to Reuters reporter Jeff Mason, who asked the question.

Transcript and video seems to have been based on a different feed which didn't pick up the question that was asked, so it may have been unintentional.

jooksavage · 25-07-2018 4:40pm

Quin_Dub wrote: »

And the irony of it all is that the $12B in supports that Trump has announced to protect farmers from the impact of the Tariff War he started will be funded by.....Money borrowed from China!!!

It's projected that US national debt will be 100% of the GDP by 2030 and will be over 150% of the GDP by 2050. These figures are going to balloon if Trump has to start throwing money at other industries that make up his base: auto, timber, take your pick. Trump is going to drive the US economy into the ground like an AC casino.

spacecoyote · 25-07-2018 4:45pm

Penn wrote: »

Okay, it's looking like the Trump Admin may not have intentionally edited out the question to Putin.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/07/25/no-the-white-house-didnt-intentionally-edit-a-question-to-putin-out-of-a-video/?utm_term=.a1a8d531d707

Transcript and video seems to have been based on a different feed which didn't pick up the question that was asked, so it may have been unintentional.

Yes, but the difference is that WAPO republished the full transcript once they realised that the original transcript was missing portions of text.

If the White House does the same, then I'd give them a pass on it, if they don't then it would look like intentionally allowing misrepresentations to stand

Leroy42 · 25-07-2018 4:45pm

Penn wrote: »

Okay, it's looking like the Trump Admin may not have intentionally edited out the question to Putin.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/07/25/no-the-white-house-didnt-intentionally-edit-a-question-to-putin-out-of-a-video/?utm_term=.a1a8d531d707

Transcript and video seems to have been based on a different feed which didn't pick up the question that was asked, so it may have been unintentional.

Hold on, the WH missed a question during the Press Conference because an earpiece didn't work?

They didn't actually have someone there taking notes?

Itssoeasy · 25-07-2018 5:04pm

So within the last 48 hours or thereabouts Donald Trump/ the white house have done the following: (correct me if wrong btw)

1. Sounded like George Orwell when describing who and what to believe.
2. Has tweeted that he is tough on russia and that it russia will help the Democrats in the midterms.
3. Had the president's lawyer Rudolph Giuliani try to say that the President was saying Cheque not cash on audio of Trump in where it's clearly Trump speaking.
4. Have altered the video/transcript of his mess in Helsinki.
5. Will no longer release the readouts of phone calls that the president has with foreign leaders.

Penn · 25-07-2018 5:21pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So within the last 48 hours or thereabouts Donald Trump/ the white house have done the following: (correct me if wrong btw)

1. Sounded like George Orwell when describing who and what to believe.
2. Has tweeted that he is tough on russia and that it russia will help the Democrats in the midterms.
3. Had the president's lawyer Rudolph Giuliani try to say that the President was saying Cheque not cash on audio of Trump in where it's clearly Trump speaking.
4. Have altered the video/transcript of his mess in Helsinki.
5. Will no longer release the readouts of phone calls that the president has with foreign leaders.

In fairness, it's still a quieter week for him than last week.

Hande hoche! · 25-07-2018 5:25pm

Penn wrote: »

In fairness, it's still a quieter week for him than last week.

The Putin meeting seems like an age ago. Madness really.

Captain Obvious · 25-07-2018 5:47pm

Penn wrote: »

Okay, it's looking like the Trump Admin may not have intentionally edited out the question to Putin.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/07/25/no-the-white-house-didnt-intentionally-edit-a-question-to-putin-out-of-a-video/?utm_term=.a1a8d531d707

Transcript and video seems to have been based on a different feed which didn't pick up the question that was asked, so it may have been unintentional.

It was a question broadcast continuously across news stations around the world. It was one of the primary focal points of the entire summit. To say someone mistakenly left out the most important question without realising doesn't hold much water. Unless perhaps Trump picked them for the job and they are extremely incompetent.

Penn · 25-07-2018 6:42pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

It was a question broadcast continuously across news stations around the world. It was one of the primary focal points of the entire summit. To say someone mistakenly left out the most important question without realising doesn't hold much water. Unless perhaps Trump picked them for the job and they are extremely incompetent.

In fairness, Washington Post missed it too, and they likely just had someone transcribing from a video. It was a long enough press conference in two languages and I think it's possible that half a question could be missed.

Just saying, sometimes with a sufficient explanation (again, as the same happened the Washington Post with the exact same question), it's reasonable to give the benefit of the doubt.

However, the onus is on the White House to correct the transcript at this point. No excuse now.

Pussyhands · 25-07-2018 7:02pm

Inquitus wrote: »

I don't think Barnier is going to take much **** off of Trump when he meets him shortly, the EU has a bigger economy and we can go toe to toe with the US if we have to, as Phil Hogan said today, we should face him down on this trade spat and not give an inch.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/eu-should-bully-trump-back-on-trade-policies-says-hogan-1.3573733

Economy maybe bigger but take the Americans out of the EU and we are up **** Creek.

VonZan · 25-07-2018 7:42pm

Pussyhands wrote: »

Economy maybe bigger but take the Americans out of the EU and we are up **** Creek.

That's generally true for almost all nations in terms of their economy and dependence on investment from the US both directly and indirectly. However, Trump doesn't seem to realise that running these surpluses has advantages, both politically and economically, and while he may have some valid points his solutions will have to come in the form of state intervention in free trade which is largely what Trump is standing against.

The fact remains that he's playing a long game of chess that he won't be around to finish. He can't take on everyone and pretend he's won. The EU won't accept a trade deal that rips up their food and environmental legislation and that's exactly what Trump wants. It wouldn't surprise me if Trump's angst stems from his golf club ventures in Europe and the 'red tape' he had to deal with when he didn't get his own way.

Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

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