Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

West of Ireland Suffering?

Options
  • 02-06-2013 1:06am
    #1
    upncmnhistori
    Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭


    I seem to notice any time the words 'west of Ireland' are mentioned in a history book the aera always come of the poorest of the poor in history (I am open to correction) but that is what I have found with all the history books I have read so far. Did the west of Ireland not have any proper industry until the 20th century?


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    It depends on what you mean by ‘proper industry’. In the 19th c. that usually meant heavy manufacturing; this was dependent on (a) local sources for the raw materials, which the West did not have, and (b) a means of getting the product to market, which the West did not have, because railways did not reach places like Galway and Killarney until the 1850’s.

    Apart from some of the port cities on the north, east and south coasts, in general there was no ‘heavy industry’ anywhere in Ireland prior to the second half of the 20th century. Even for ordinary manufacturing you need transport to bring your product to market; transport costs are high and the further you are from the market the higher those costs will be, so the less enticing it is to start something ‘miles from anywhere’. The lack of a rail network for example was one reason that prevented the development of a fishing industry in pre-Famine times (you cannot bring fish to Dublin from Clifden or Dingle by horse & cart). If you have no industry you have no jobs, = deprivation = no money = no local economy = poverty = emigration = more deprivation. A vicious circle that is hard to break.

    In the Middle Ages Galway was a booming city, major trade activity but mainly in commodities with Spain/France. Limerick & Tralee also had strong international links. The political will (after the Act of Union), the interest of landlords, the burgeoning Irish middle class and the interest in developing a manufacturing base versus an interest in developing an agri-sector also has a big input.

    Even in the 1970’s the road network in Ireland was so poor and the surfaces so bad that the IDA (Industrial Development Authority, now Enterprise Ireland) would FLY prospective investors to the West from Dublin to avoid showing them the potholes. (Mr. Wang would quickly realise what a bumpy road would do to the circuitry in his product). Until the Celtic Tiger era it was a surprise to most foreigners that Ireland was no longer an agricultural country.


  • Options
    #3
    jonniebgood1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    It goes back quite some distance. Cromwell had reason to state to hell or to Connaught, or some such utterance.
    It has been seen as wild and barren for a long time http://www.irish-society.org/home/hedgemaster-archives-2/people/cromwell-oliver-to-hell-or-to-connaught


  • Options
    #4
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    jonniebgood1 wrote: »
    It goes back quite some distance. Cromwell had reason to state to hell or to Connaught, or some such utterance.
    It has been seen as wild and barren for a long time http://www.irish-society.org/home/hedgemaster-archives-2/people/cromwell-oliver-to-hell-or-to-connaught

    How did this work in reality? Were 850,000 people crammed into connaught and the rest of Ireland really given to30,000 soldiers?


  • Options
    #5
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    In short, the transplantation policy was flawed. Enforcement was extremely difficult, as there were appeal processes, petitions, delays, subterfuge, prevarication, etc. Nothing worked according to plan for the ‘new’ English – take for example the four mile ‘exclusion zone’ ordained for the length of the Shannon that was to be reserved for soldiers (to help in fencing off the Irish in Connaught) - that ended up being reduced to one mile wide and was non-existent in many places.

    However, the higher up the social scale the more likely you were to be sent to Connaught and the old Anglo-Irish families – which had defended the Pale for the English for centuries – were the first to suffer and the worst hit. For example Walter Cheevers who lived in the castle at Monkstown (Co. Dublin) and owned a huge tract of what is now Dun Laoghaire Rathdown was married to Alison Netterville of Dowth had to go 'West' with his baggage and retainers. The Nettervilles themselves lost out, being involved in the rebellion of 1641 and despite titles (offhand I cannot remember if they had a viscountcy at that date) and an extensive network of powerful relatives lost all of their estates – the wife was allowed retain a little land on which to live. Later a son ‘conformed’ and was restored to the estates by the act of explanation. Even then he recovered less than a quarter of what was his due. Many of those who were on transplantation lists took to the hills and were tories/outlaws.

    As for numbers, it is estimated that about forty thousand men who had been in arms went into the services of the Kings of Spain, France, and Poland; there also was a huge mortality rate in the 1640-1655 period as a result of famine and plague. Several soldiers who were granted land did not want to remain – many were cityfolk who knew nothing about farming, had no interest in remaining in Ireland and there were big penalties if they broke the rule of not intermarrying with the Irish. As a result many English officers often bought the soldiers’ allotted lands at a discount. Many of the ‘lesser’ Irish just kept their heads down and instead of working for an Irish master worked for the newly arrived English one. Farming itself was almost impossible for the new settlers due to tories and wolves – the settlers needed labourers and the authorities knew this and usually turned a blind eye.

    Prendergast's 'Cromwellian Settlement of Ireland' is very good on the topic.

    As a kid we had a rhyme on Johnny Dory which meant nothing to us at that time but I'm told it dates to the Cromwellian era.

    Johnny Dory, what is your story?
    I went to the wood and shot a Tory.
    I went to the wood and shot another:
    Was it the same, or was it his brother?

    I hunted him in, I hunted him out,
    Three times through the wood, and about and about,
    'Till out of a hush I spied his head,
    So I levelled my gun and shot him dead.


Advertisement