[CDfm]

Originally Posted by who the fug

Is it wrong that I still get as much fun out it now in my forties as I did when I was a teenager.

So its you

[who the fug]

Originally Posted by CDfm

So its you

No Kilmichael would have been outside area of operation.

[Fenian Army]

I imagine its the NGA who look after it, they are short of funds, help out by buying an easter lily, or by donating.

http://www.nga.ie/

[jonniebgood1]

Originally Posted by CDfm

That's because it is an academic squabble and it is no secret.
.......

I think a more correct comparison for Bandon would be the Ballyseedy Massacre .

No probs with Kilmichael for me.

I'm just probing TBH. If an authors published opinions are proven to be unsound then it is hard to know what to believe.

Originally Posted by Fenian Army

I imagine its the NGA who look after it, they are short of funds, help out by buying an easter lily, or by donating.

http://www.nga.ie/

Are they assuming control for graves, I would have thought the council were responsible for a monument that is adjacent to their road?

[Fenian Army]

Originally Posted by jonniebgood1

Are they assuming control for graves, I would have thought the council were responsible for a monument that is adjacent to their road?

A simple reading of the link would have informed you.

To restore, where necessary, and maintain fittingly the graves and memorials of our patriot dead of every generation.

To commemorate those who died in the cause of Irish freedom.

To compile a record of such graves and memorials.

Probably is something to do with the council but generally they don't care or do anything. The NGA would be willing I reckon to take responsibility for it, if they haven't done so already, but I would certainly get in contact with them, fantastic people involved with it.

They take care of similar monuments, in fact most republican memorials are on roadsides.

The dublin govt do a terrible, terrible job of looking after our heroic dead, look at how long it took to get the forgotten ten a decent burial.

[jonniebgood1]

Originally Posted by Fenian Army

A simple reading of the link would have informed you.

Probably is something to do with the council but generally they don't care or do anything. The NGA would be willing I reckon to take responsibility for it, if they haven't done so already, but I would certainly get in contact with them, fantastic people involved with it.

They take care of similar monuments, in fact most republican memorials are on roadsides.

Fair enough but to use your own terminology a 'simple read' of the OP will inform you that it seems noone is taking care of the Kilmichael memorial. Kilmichael is the site of one of the most successful actions in our War of Independence in Republican terms and I agree with the OP sentiments, it deserves to be in prestine condition.

[Fenian Army]

Originally Posted by jonniebgood1

Fair enough but to use your own terminology a 'simple read' of the OP will inform you that it seems noone is taking care of the Kilmichael memorial. Kilmichael is the site of one of the most successful actions in our War of Independence in Republican terms and I agree with the OP sentiments, it deserves to be in prestine condition.

Perhaps they dont know its condition, fire them off an email and let them know. Perhaps they dont have the cash, but they do sterling work. Send the NGA an email or whatever and let them know.

For example, they look after the 1916 plot, you'd think the state would. They also look after Wolfe Tones grave.

The grave of Castlerea Fenian John Lavin, unveiled by Maud Gonne in 1901:
Before:

After:



The state have never given a damn about the patriot dead.

Edit:

Actually from reading you post it seems you wanted to find a way to write a snarky rely, I was obviously well aware of what the content of the OP was and the condition, I acknowledged that clearly in my post. You however were ignorant of the fact that the NGA maintain memorials too, which the monument is.

[Gee Bag]

I think there is general agreement here that letting the commemerative monument at Kilmichael fall in to disrepair is shameful.

I know this thread has gone a bit off topic by discussing the controversy surrounding Peter Hart's work, so I'm going to drag it off further by posting two links to articles criticising Hart's methodology


http://gcd.academia.edu/NiallMeehan/...Historiography

http://gcd.academia.edu/NiallMeehan/...s_in_West_Cork

[CDfm]

Originally Posted by jonniebgood1

I'm just probing TBH. If an authors published opinions are proven to be unsound then it is hard to know what to believe.

What is hard to believe , that he was wrong ?

Or that he may have deliberately made a false accusation of sectarianism ?

Originally Posted by Gee Bag

I think there is general agreement here that letting the commemerative monument at Kilmichael fall in to disrepair is shameful.

I know this thread has gone a bit off topic by discussing the controversy surrounding Peter Hart's work, so I'm going to drag it off further by posting two links to articles criticising Hart's methodology


http://gcd.academia.edu/NiallMeehan/...Historiography

http://gcd.academia.edu/NiallMeehan/...s_in_West_Cork

I think you are right to do so.

The Dunmanway killings were carried out in defiance of the ceasefire and to prove sectarianism he would need to go further.

That does not mean people in the Protestant Community in Cork were not afraid etc ,but fear does not equal sectarianism .

So the narrative of the protestant community may need to be looked at in its own right .

[jonniebgood1]

Originally Posted by Fenian Army

You however were ignorant of the fact that the NGA maintain memorials too, which the monument is.

My point was that if they were looking after monuments in this area then surely the significance of Kilmichael would see it get attention. THe fact that it has not done so goes in the face of the suggestion that they may be responsible for looking after it. If they were responsible then it would be in better condition.

Either they are responsible for looking after it or not?

[Fenian Army]

Originally Posted by jonniebgood1

My point was that if they were looking after monuments in this area then surely the significance of Kilmichael would see it get attention. THe fact that it has not done so goes in the face of the suggestion that they may be responsible for looking after it. If they were responsible then it would be in better condition.

Either they are responsible for looking after it or not?

You really are struggling aren't you?

I've already said that they struggle for funds and they also may not be aware of its condition. They look after other monuments because the state cant be arsed and some of these are a bit dilapidated, they don't have unlimited funds you know. Take the pictures I posted, they didn't know of its condition until a member of the public told them.

Its obvious you know feck all about the group with your assertion that it "goes in the face". Theres a simple solution, email and ask and dont start putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5.

[jonniebgood1]

Originally Posted by CDfm

What is hard to believe , that he was wrong ?

Or that he may have deliberately made a false accusation of sectarianism ?

I would call them false assumptions and it is hard to believe other assumptions he makes when the basis for his Kilmichael assumptions are not all sound. I don't think there is a suggestion that his views were not genuine.

[jonniebgood1]

Originally Posted by Fenian Army

You really are struggling aren't you?

I've already said that they struggle for funds and they also may not be aware of its condition. They look after other monuments because the state cant be arsed and some of these are a bit dilapidated, they don't have unlimited funds you know. Take the pictures I posted, they didn't know of its condition until a member of the public told them.

Its obvious you know feck all about the group with your assertion that it "goes in the face". Theres a simple solution, email and ask and dont start putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5.

???
I am not familiar with the group. You brought up the group and suggested that they were responsible for maintaining the Kilmichael monument. You suggested they look after it when the premise of the thread is that nobody is looking after it, that is what I am pointing out.

Originally Posted by Fenian Army

I imagine its the NGA who look after it, they are short of funds, help out by buying an easter lily, or by donating.

So what are you so touchy about??? If its a funding issue they have then thats fair enough.

[Fenian Army]

So get in contact and ask, they may think someone else is maintaining it, They may not know its damaged, they may know and not have the cash to fix it. It could be any number of things.

I'm sure they will be willing to help fix it. The state wont, I can tell you that from experience.

I would have thought anyone with even a basic knowledge of Irish history, particularly graves and monuments, would know about the NGA. Especially considering they have a pretty high profile Lily sale every year.

Anyway, enough, OP, I suggest alerting the NGA about the condition.

As for Hart, well, he was just one of a cabal of "free staters/southern nationalists", west brits and blueshirts who have engaged, and continue to do so, in a decades old quest to find reasons to be ashamed of our past and to disgrace Irish heroes. A fool, best ignored. His work isn't even in any way convincing.

[Gee Bag]

Originally Posted by Fenian Army

As for Hart, well, he was just one of a cabal of "free staters/southern nationalists", west brits and blueshirts who have engaged, and continue to do so, in a decades old quest to find reasons to be ashamed of our past and to disgrace Irish heroes.

Not everything that happened during the War of Independence and it's aftermath was wonderful and glorious.

Historians are supposed to question what happened in past, not blindly accept orthodoxy.

I find the name calling/labelling highlighted in your post above childish in the extreme. People have different opinions. Get over it.