Termination Letter from landlord with multiple properties

meijin · 28-11-2019 5:12pm

Dav010 wrote: »

As long as the daughter moves in after termination with a valid notice, where do you see an offence?

it's explained here: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/27/section/14/enacted/en/html

(3) Such action may constitute penalisation even though it consists of steps taken by the landlord in the exercise of any rights conferred on him or her by or under this Act, any other enactment or the lease or tenancy agreement concerned

Curious1002 · 28-11-2019 5:28pm

I know that there are some people here, possible landlords themselves, who try to discourage me from opening a dispute with RTB. I appreciate their efforts and big thanks to them for the input as I have a better picture now of what potential defense will be used by my LL's team at the hearing.

The point is that there are good LLs and there are shady LLs, the same goes for tenants. I know who I have been dealing with (LL) and that I haven't done anything wrong. For me that's enough to dispute the notice that from the technical side may look valid. But as you now know, there is more to this case.
I am ready to have my name published but at least my LL's "operations" will be exposed too. I will not be shy from disclosing all evidence at the hearing and it will be rather embarrassing for LL. Yes, I may lose the case anyway and end up with the Dublin Simon Homeless Community, but I will definitely not go down easily. I only wish more shady LL's were exposed and that the tenants fought for their rights all the way.

beauf · 28-11-2019 5:41pm

I hope it all works out for you.

Curious1002 wrote: »

...
…and to all those who ask why no lease. At the beginning when my LL and I were on good civilised terms, I asked him about it and he said that it’s too much work. He collects rent by cash from 50% of the tenants. I got his bank details but after a few months of asking. This is only 50/50 legal business with lots of cash in operation.....

But hes only able to operate like this because people do business with him, knowing the problems with it. I accept that people feel they have no choice.

Marcusm · 28-11-2019 6:08pm

Curious1002 wrote: »

what about moving her in to any of the empty identical apts in the same development?
or
what about the LL's lack of attempts to offer me a substitute apt while there are or will be empty soon.

This is really NOT a clean cut case when 1 LL has only 1 apt and exercises his right to move in his daughter, therefore a tenant has to go. The LL has plenty of apts which he doesnt want to offer any to me even though they are or will be empty the same month I am required to go.

I suspect “requires for occupation by a family member” is sufficiently broad so as not to permit the RTB to forbid the landlord from identifying your apartment. Likewise it has no power to make him rehome you. I have no doubt that the TTB will rightly make an adverse inference that your apartment has been chosen for a different reason. However, unless you can establish through fact or induced testimony from the landlord or his family member that the housing need is not genuine, I suspect you will not have strong chances.

Curious1002 · 28-11-2019 6:17pm

171170 wrote: »

Contact Threshold or the Mercy Law Centre and they should have that info. to hand.

I did contact both organisations today and they dont keep records of Tribunal cases based on the reason of termination or a special keywords (e.g. vindictive conduct, penalisation the tenant".
I can only search by parties' name, date, order numbers, addresses and dispute type, which I dont know. The filtering of the dispute type (e.g. selecting only a termination notice) at best would give me over 500 Tribunal cases to review. If I have to do it then I will but would be nice for some extra info.

Does anyone remember any case or at least a year where a landlord was accused for penalising the tenant for reporting for some authority (Threshold, RTB, etc) or asking for some repairs, rent book, bank details, etc?

davindub · 28-11-2019 7:00pm

Curious1002 wrote: »

I did contact both organisations today and they dont keep records of Tribunal cases based on the reason of termination or a special keywords (e.g. vindictive conduct, penalisation the tenant".
I can only search by parties' name, date, order numbers, addresses and dispute type, which I dont know. The filtering of the dispute type (e.g. selecting only a termination notice) at best would give me over 500 Tribunal cases to review. If I have to do it then I will but would be nice for some extra info.

Does anyone remember any case or at least a year where a landlord was accused for penalising the tenant for reporting for some authority (Threshold, RTB, etc) or asking for some repairs, rent book, bank details, etc?

One case that will be relevant for you is Duniyva in the HC, the LL was successful but the judge did make remarks about the meaning of requires for family member.

Saudades · 28-11-2019 7:10pm

Curious1002 wrote: »

I live in Dublin in a Rent Pressure Zone for 2 years and 1 month (there was never any lease agreement in place).

My landlord has 30 apartments in my building where at least 1 apt becomes available each month (people are moving in and out all the time). My landlord's son owns 35 more apartments nearby

Curious1002 wrote: »

He collects rent by cash from 50% of the tenants. This is only 50/50 legal business with lots of cash in operation.

Did the landlord register you with PRTB?

I find it disturbing that a father and son own 65 Dublin apartments between them but don't have lease agreements in place (unless your apartment is of the minority).
Or is it student accommodation?

And quite shocking that the landlord is collecting rent by cash for 50% of 65 Dublin apartments. A Dublin apartment goes for at least €1,000 a month, so he's collecting at least €32,000 a month in cash?

This sounds like a massive operation that the media, PRTB, and especially Revenue would all be very interested in.

terrydel · 28-11-2019 7:14pm

BarryD2 wrote: »

Why no lease? This guy has 30 apartments and his son 35 of same? Sounds like this is a letting business that would be familiar with all the normal paperwork?? Doesn't add up.

I'm sure he's more than familiar.

terrydel · 28-11-2019 7:18pm

Saudades wrote: »

Did the landlord register you with PRTB?

I find it disturbing that a father and son own 65 Dublin apartments between them but don't have lease agreements in place (unless your apartment is of the minority).
Or is it student accommodation?

And quite shocking that the landlord is collecting rent by cash for 50% of 65 Dublin apartments. A Dublin apartment goes for at least €1,000 a month, so he's collecting at least €32,000 a month in cash?

This sounds like a massive operation that the media, PRTB, and especially Revenue would all be very interested in.

Oh don't mention revenue, all landlords are fully tax compliant don't you know.

Curious1002 · 28-11-2019 7:35pm

Saudades wrote: »

Did the landlord register you with PRTB?

I find it disturbing that a father and son own 65 Dublin apartments between them but don't have lease agreements in place (unless your apartment is of the minority).
Or is it student accommodation?

And quite shocking that the landlord is collecting rent by cash for 50% of 65 Dublin apartments. A Dublin apartment goes for at least €1,000 a month, so he's collecting at least €32,000 a month in cash?

This sounds like a massive operation that the media, PRTB, and especially Revenue would all be very interested in.

I could play dirty and report the dealings to Revenue. That's actually something that I have to think about. Someone told me that I can play this dirty card in exchange to stay in here. That might be true. But I really want to do progress with this case fairly even though i deal with a shady business.

Do you all suggest me to write to Revenue?

Curious1002 · 28-11-2019 7:36pm

davindub wrote: »

One case that will be relevant for you is Duniyva in the HC, the LL was successful but the judge did make remarks about the meaning of requires for family member.

Thanks very much, mate!

Curious1002 · 28-11-2019 7:43pm

Saudades wrote: »

Did the landlord register you with PRTB?

I find it disturbing that a father and son own 65 Dublin apartments between them but don't have lease agreements in place (unless your apartment is of the minority).
Or is it student accommodation?

And quite shocking that the landlord is collecting rent by cash for 50% of 65 Dublin apartments. A Dublin apartment goes for at least €1,000 a month, so he's collecting at least €32,000 a month in cash?

This sounds like a massive operation that the media, PRTB, and especially Revenue would all be very interested in.

Yes, my dwelling got registered a few months after I moved in. RTB has the wrong start date and wrong number of rooms though, tried to straighten this up but they said that the landlord himself has to correct it.

I also checked if all apts are registered on PRTB and i saw only 7 out of 30 that are registered. Don't know again if I should play dirty and report this to PRTB or leave it and play fair.

I am really freaking struggling here. You want to do the right thing and be fair yet the LL doesnt play fair with you and God knows, he might bring up some fake stuff at the hearing that I wont have a defense for. I started to read some crazy sh*t how people lie in courts and produce some super fake docs. I really hope this will not be the case for me though. The more I think about it the more I consider hiring a prof. attorney.

terrydel · 28-11-2019 8:42pm

Curious1002 wrote: »

I could play dirty and report the dealings to Revenue. That's actually something that I have to think about. Someone told me that I can play this dirty card in exchange to stay in here. That might be true. But I really want to do progress with this case fairly even though i deal with a shady business.

Do you all suggest me to write to Revenue?

Well if he's 30+ properties that are not registered with the rtb he's breaking the law big time, so it's not much of a reach to think he's also not fully open and transparent with revenue. He deserves to be found out if that's what he's at.

fash · 29-11-2019 7:38am

Varik wrote: »

The prior failed notices will be ignored. All that matters is the current one, and whether the family need is valid and the notice was too.

That is not correct. The previous incidents are facts material to whether the current notice is given in good faith (and valid) or not and instead used as a ruse/penalty.

Furthermore, by disputing, either the tenant is correct (and the tenant stays) or even if the tenant is incorrect, the dispute resolution process will likely result in delay to being removed from the apartment.

fash · 29-11-2019 7:51am

terrydel wrote: »

Well if he's 30+ properties that are not registered with the rtb he's breaking the law big time, so it's not much of a reach to think he's also not fully open and transparent with revenue. He deserves to be found out if that's what he's at.

Personally I think it is fair enough to suggest to revenue that they may be interested in investigating the matter. Aside from the fact that the LL is acting in a vindictive manner (he started this war etc.), in addition, it is the law that these taxes are paid/he is taking money rightfully beginning to other tax payers etc.

29-11-2019 9:25am

fash wrote: »

Personally I think it is fair enough to suggest to revenue that they may be interested in investigating the matter. Aside from the fact that the LL is acting in a vindictive manner (he started this war etc.), in addition, it is the law that these taxes are paid/he is taking money rightfully beginning to other tax payers etc.

How do you know he isn’t paying tax? The usual ant-LL bull assumptions in here as usual.

terrydel · 29-11-2019 11:20am

fash wrote: »

Personally I think it is fair enough to suggest to revenue that they may be interested in investigating the matter. Aside from the fact that the LL is acting in a vindictive manner (he started this war etc.), in addition, it is the law that these taxes are paid/he is taking money rightfully beginning to other tax payers etc.

Totally agree.

terrydel · 29-11-2019 11:24am

Nathan Thoughtless Hog wrote: »

How do you know he isn’t paying tax? The usual ant-LL bull assumptions in here as usual.

Boohoo poor landlords. That's the usual in here.
Why can the likes of you not even except that it's a decent possibility that someone who doesn't register over 30 properties with the necessary organisation as they are legally obliged to do so, is then much more likely to be the type of person who would also not register them with revenue in terms of declaring the income from them? People who break and flaunt one law are much more likely to flaunt another. And the financial incentive to avoiding revenue is huge of you get away with it.

Graham · 29-11-2019 11:34am

Mod Note

Curious1002 wrote: »

I could play dirty and report the dealings to Revenue. That's actually something that I have to think about. Someone told me that I can play this dirty card in exchange to stay in here.

Please let me know if you are suggesting blackmail and I'll issue the appropriate forum ban immediately.

Take the taxation discussions to the appropriate forum.

Do not respond to this post.

29-11-2019 11:45am

terrydel wrote: »

Boohoo poor landlords. That's the usual in here.
Why can the likes of you not even except that it's a decent possibility that someone who doesn't register over 30 properties with the necessary organisation as they are legally obliged to do so, is then much more likely to be the type of person who would also not register them with revenue in terms of declaring the income from them? People who break and flaunt one law are much more likely to flaunt another. And the financial incentive to avoiding revenue is huge of you get away with it.

How do you know they aren’t registered? Some wishy washy claims from op with no evidence? You how no idea if they are registered is the truth, the RTB website is very unreliable and not to be taken as fact.

I can see small LL taking a chance with tax but if this LL really owns a very large number of properties there is simply no way he/she is not declaring the income. They may keep a bit for themselves like everyone who can do does but they will definitely be declaring the bulk of not all of it, it would be just impossible to get away with it when running a business of the size claimed by the op.

Curious1002 · 29-11-2019 12:03pm

Graham wrote: »

Mod Note

Please let me know if you are suggesting blackmail and I'll issue the appropriate forum ban immediately.

Take the taxation discussions to the appropriate forum.

Do not respond to this post.

terrydel · 29-11-2019 12:12pm

Nathan Thoughtless Hog wrote: »

How do you know they aren’t registered? Some wishy washy claims from op with no evidence? You how no idea if they are registered is the truth, the RTB website is very unreliable and not to be taken as fact.

I can see small LL taking a chance with tax but if this LL really owns a very large number of properties there is simply no way he/she is not declaring the income. They may keep a bit for themselves like everyone who can do does but they will definitely be declaring the bulk of not all of it, it would be just impossible to get away with it when running a business of the size claimed by the op.

As usual you refuse to address the point I made.
Because it doesnt suit your deluded narrative that all landlords, even ones likes this that already breaking the law in a serious manner, are saints.

You say they will definitely be declaring the bulk (which is not all and still breaking the law), how do you know this? Prove it. I never made a definitive statement like that, I said they are more likely to break one law if breaking another. You are the one stating as fact what you cant prove. I can tell you are struggling so I'll leave you alone.

dennyk · 29-11-2019 12:14pm

Nathan Thoughtless Hog wrote: »

How do you know he isn’t paying tax? The usual ant-LL bull assumptions in here as usual.

It's not the OP's job to know, it's their job to report their suspicions to Revenue and let Revenue investigate to determine the truth of the matter. There are few if any legitimate reasons why a landlord who has a functioning bank account would encourage or demand cash payments from tenants; compared to a bank transfer, cash is a much bigger hassle to deal with, far less secure, and less traceable, which is a disadvantage for both the landlord and the tenant...that is, unless the landlord has some vested interest in not having a reliable record of those payments, of course. It's not a sure thing that it's tax evasion; the landlord could be trying to hide assets for some other reason, or they could be trying to avoid having a clear record of rent amounts or payments to make it harder for tenants to challenge illegal rent increases or make it easier to attempt an eviction for bogus arrears (the lack of a written lease also lends weight to that possibility). Tax fraud is a potential reason as well, though, and makes the landlord's behaviour worth reporting to Revenue.

Curious1002 · 29-11-2019 12:25pm

Nathan Thoughtless Hog wrote: »

How do you know they aren’t registered? Some wishy washy claims from op with no evidence? You how no idea if they are registered is the truth, the RTB website is very unreliable and not to be taken as fact.

...and how do people report a crime if they havent seen the actual act of crime? They do it because they join the dots - if they hear shouting, then a big bang, then they see somebody's running away and then they find drops of blood (I am a big fan of crime stories by the way) - so yes, they are rightly to assume that something serious must have happened.

The same goes for reporting a potential fraud / tax evasion - you have your own experience of paying cash to LL, you talk to the neighbours who dont have the courage to ask LL for his bank details (or they did but he ignored the requests), you can't find 75% of LLs apts on the RTB reg list, then you see how nasty the LL plays the field on your own experience = thats how you join the dots that things are very fishy here.

Do you think that in the era of GDPR you will get confirmation from Revenue or RTB that your landlord pays taxes or registered all his apts correctly? All that people can do is to ask the correct body to check this out and state why you are concerned providing evidence you have or don't have.

I have my LL's bank account details as I pay my rent via bank transfer. I asked Threshold if I could simply give these details to my neighbours as we, of course, have the same landlord and Threshold said that LL could SUE me for sharing his details with my neighbours. Dont you think it's ridiculous?

Grumpypants · 29-11-2019 12:33pm

What have the PRTB said?

Curious1002 · 29-11-2019 12:52pm

Grumpypants wrote: »

What have the PRTB said?

The PRTB suggested to send an email to enforcement@rtb.ie describing the problem/concern, naming the landlord and give his PPS number, if known. But even if somebody doesnt know the PPS (these days you won't learn about it so easily), just state your exact address and they will link it to the correct landlord.

I also checked with them who my landlord is (the dad or the son) and they confirmed the full name of the LL (the father).

beauf · 29-11-2019 1:20pm

Seems like people don't problem with not following the law for the first two years until the rent was increased. (I assume this, as almost no one has commented on that).

The LL is wrong obviously. But he couldn't operate unless he had people willing to co-operate with him.

I'd be also curious about the rent. If he thinks he can get 75% more for it. Was the rent especially low for those 2yrs?

beauf · 29-11-2019 1:25pm

Could be all these properties are sublet. So perhaps the person people think is the LL is actually a front for someone else.

Curious1002 · 29-11-2019 1:41pm

beauf wrote: »

Seems like no one had a problem with not following the law for the first two years until the rent was increased.

The LL is wrong obviously. But he couldn't operate unless he had people willing to co-operate with him.

The thing is that first you are ecstatic that you got the place. You know how freaking hard it was for months for you to get a place so you are super grateful to get one. You even send him an email calling him the best LL ever!
Then you start noticing the small things (why cash, why not rtb registered, why no rent book, etc), you have balls to ask LL to correct it and provide you with the info. Months pass, you nag and nag but you still keep in mind that within 6 months he could kick you out just cos he doesnt like the weather today. So you do it carefully not to upset his haircut, you smile, you wave. You think that the guy is simply very busy, he probably deals with some bad tenants, hence the mistrust and delays etc. so you dont push it.

After 8-10 months LL finally realises that he won't shut you up and provides you with his bank details, then after a year he finally registers you.
You are happy, you think life is good.
And then he strikes with 75% of rent increase.
You dont know what to do, you talk to your friends, neighbours, family, you call Threshold - they ask questions and you start realising that things that have been going on for years with you or with others are just not okay. You hardly paid attention to any of this before cos you were oblivious or ignorant, you had your own life problems but now when the problem touches you directly, you do pay attention to every word, every move he takes.

My LL made me become the biggest advocate for all the tenants, let it be in my building or elsewhere. I have never read so much on the topic and law like in the last few weeks.

I am fair and play fair. He does not and I will expose it.

Curious1002 · 29-11-2019 1:45pm

beauf wrote: »

Could be all these properties are sublet. So perhaps the person people think is the LL is actually a front for someone else.

No, I have docs proving his ownership. No confusion here.

I live in a studio apt about 22 m2 and pay €955.

beauf · 29-11-2019 1:57pm

I'm not making a moral judgement. You do what you have to do, especially in a housing crisis.

But you went along with it, so I think you can ease up on the moral superiority, and crusade.

Curious1002 wrote: »

No, I have docs proving his ownership. No confusion here.

I live in a studio apt about 22 m2 and pay €955.

You have proof of all his apartments? I think thats between you and the RTB.

listermint · 29-11-2019 2:00pm

Varik wrote: »

Assuming the daughter does actually need somewhere and it isn't a ruse, it's substantially better for landlord to give her the place that's at a lower rent. She gets a lower rent and he's not losing out on a higher one somewhere else. Also doesn't have to offer to rent it to her, she can just live there the 2 years and after which he can set the rent to whatever for the next person.

If you moved into your neighbour place you'd be paying the neighbours current rate plus a bit dependant on when their rent was last reviewed. You've no priority over anyone for the other place.

Sorry just spotted this part of the post and was highly amused by it.

A landlord with multiple properties like this would have his daughter paying any rent.

lolcopter.

'If' and i mean if the daughter exists i doubt she will be placed in the cheapest apartment he has.

Do you really believe this ... ? like genuinely without a smile.

Curious1002 · 29-11-2019 2:24pm

beauf wrote: »

I'm not making a moral judgement. You do what you have to do, especially in a housing crisis.

But you went along with it, so I think you can ease up on the moral superiority, and crusade.

You have proof of all his apartments? I think thats between you and the RTB.

I didnt go with this. If you read all the previous posts then you would know that i was asking for his bank details, rent book, rtb registration from the start.

It's clear you dont like what I write here but it only reassures me that i touch a very sensitive area for both sides so it's good to show two different corners and the way both sides think.

LLs, like yourself, operate from the level of power. You have something that is in a massive demand and it gives LLs a sense of superiority, a feeling that puts them above the Law, like dictatorship. Some people will play along and LL is happy that they have a very compliant tenant who enables his scam. (Ask North Koreans why they don't say NO or demonstrate against Mr. Kim Jong-un.)
Some tenants don't go along with the shenanigans and become a potential threat to LLs - so what is the first thing the LL who has something to hide do? He tries to remove them.

Curious1002 · 29-11-2019 2:29pm

beauf wrote: »

You have proof of all his apartments? I think thats between you and the RTB.

Yes, I do. An official doc with stamps, signatures, owner's name, number of apts , dates and...here is a nice one - a price he purchase the building for!

29-11-2019 2:44pm

Curious1002 wrote: »

LLs, like yourself, operate from the level of power. You have something that is in a massive demand and it gives LLs a sense of superiority, a feeling that puts them above the Law, like dictatorship. Some people will play along and LL is happy that they have a very compliant tenant who enables his scam. (Ask North Koreans why they don't say NO or demonstrate against Mr. Kim Jong-un.)
Some tenants don't go along with the shenanigans and become a potential threat to LLs - so what is the first thing the LL who has something to hide do? He tries to remove them.

I certainly don’t see it as a “level of power” nor do I feel a “sense of superiority” just because I own rental properties, and I am certain that most LLs are of the same mind. I do however see it as a “level” of risk and that I own an asset, though in demand, still must be paid for and is still vulnerable to abuse, both in terms of non payment of rent and the place being wrecked. The aim of all LLs is to make profit, there is no other good reason to put up with the hassle and risk of renting. This really should not come as a surprise.

The Student · 29-11-2019 2:49pm

Curious1002 wrote: »

I didnt go with this. If you read all the previous posts then you would know that i was asking for his bank details, rent book, rtb registration from the start.

It's clear you dont like what I write here but it only reassures me that i touch a very sensitive area for both sides so it's good to show two different corners and the way both sides think.

LLs, like yourself, operate from the level of power. You have something that is in a massive demand and it gives LLs a sense of superiority, a feeling that puts them above the Law, like dictatorship. Some people will play along and LL is happy that they have a very compliant tenant who enables his scam. (Ask North Koreans why they don't say NO or demonstrate against Mr. Kim Jong-un.)
Some tenants don't go along with the shenanigans and become a potential threat to LLs - so what is the first thing the LL who has something to hide do? He tries to remove them.

Sorry I have to respond to this. I take issue with your comment that the current situation gives LLs a sense of superiority, putting them above the law....

Firstly a landlord has every right to request payment in cash if they so wish. if a tenant does not wish to do that then the landlord can take the next applicant for the property. Cash is legal tender and it is illegal to refuse to take cash in Ireland for goods or services.

The only legal matter the tenant is involved in is the registering with the RTB. It is not the tenants responsibility to ensure the landlord does or does not pay tax on their income. The RTB communicate with the Revenue Commissions and Dept of Social Welfare automatically so once you get your confirmation of the RTB registration that is all you need.

It strikes me as odd that you are interested as to whether your landlord is paying tax. Even if your tenancy is not registered and you can prove you lived in the property (easily done using utility bills) you can still raise a complaint with the RTB.

beauf · 29-11-2019 3:26pm

Curious1002 wrote: »

I didnt go with this. If you read all the previous posts then you would know that i was asking for his bank details, rent book, rtb registration from the start.

It's clear you dont like what I write here but it only reassures me that i touch a very sensitive area for both sides so it's good to show two different corners and the way both sides think.

LLs, like yourself, operate from the level of power. You have something that is in a massive demand and it gives LLs a sense of superiority, a feeling that puts them above the Law, like dictatorship. Some people will play along and LL is happy that they have a very compliant tenant who enables his scam. (Ask North Koreans why they don't say NO or demonstrate against Mr. Kim Jong-un.)
Some tenants don't go along with the shenanigans and become a potential threat to LLs - so what is the first thing the LL who has something to hide do? He tries to remove them.

My only issue is your narrow one sided view point.

Its like someone complaining about high ticket prices, while buying black market tickets of touts.

But this is human nature, its like someone driving a mile to work complaining about traffic congestion.

beauf · 29-11-2019 3:34pm

The Student wrote: »

.... Even if your tenancy is not registered and you can prove you lived in the property (easily done using utility bills) you can still raise a complaint with the RTB...

Considering that a LL can't raise a complain if they are not registered.

Curious1002 · 29-11-2019 4:12pm

beauf wrote: »

My only issue is your narrow one sided view point.

Its like someone complaining about high ticket prices, while buying black market tickets of touts.

But this is human nature, its like someone driving a mile to work complaining about traffic congestion.

you questioned me from a get go, you asked many sensitive questions which i provided, I would have hoped, comprehensive answers to. But it looks like even with that you are not satisfied. I must say that no matter what i say, you still stick with the LL. You come across as an angry person too and you shouldn't be.

Whoever is your tenant - hmmm, I dont envy.

ec18 · 29-11-2019 4:17pm

Curious1002 wrote: »

what about moving her in to any of the empty identical apts in the same development?
or
what about the LL's lack of attempts to offer me a substitute apt while there are or will be empty soon.

This is really NOT a clean cut case when 1 LL has only 1 apt and exercises his right to move in his daughter, therefore a tenant has to go. The LL has plenty of apts which he doesnt want to offer any to me even though they are or will be empty the same month I am required to go.

Is there any actual legal restriction on this? I understand the point you are making but as far as I'm aware there is no onus on him to occupy another apartment, for example would his daughter saying the apartment in question was her favourite suffice as a reason?

beauf · 29-11-2019 4:19pm

You are factually incorrect and you keep deliberately misrepresenting what I've said.

beauf wrote: »

The LL has to give you valid notice. Then follow through.

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/ending-a-tenancy/sample-notices-of-termination

The rest really isn't relevant as far as I know. Ask the RTB.

I never even said I was right and directed to where to get proper clarification.

More so I suggested you could win such a case.

beauf wrote: »

None of that will invalidate a valid notice. As far as I'm aware.

But if he doesn't follow though and just puts another tenant in there you might win a payout and the LL will have to offer you the place back.

But someone with that much property had probably been through that many times, and really the fine is small change to him.

How that is anti tenant and angry I have no idea.

beauf · 29-11-2019 4:22pm

ec18 wrote: »

Is there any actual legal restriction on this? I understand the point you are making but as far as I'm aware there is no onus on him to occupy another apartment, for example would his daughter saying the apartment in question was her favourite suffice as a reason?

From other posters its seems the RTB can look at the situation in its entirety and make a determination from that is its primary objective of the termination was to penalize the tenant.

ec18 · 29-11-2019 4:25pm

Curious1002 wrote: »

Yes, I do. An official doc with stamps, signatures, owner's name, number of apts , dates and...here is a nice one - a price he purchase the building for!

you seem to have a bit of a vendetta against the LL, given the research and digging you have done on their personal/business affairs. Which could all be declared invalid or inadmissible as the dispute centres on the notice issued to you to quit to allow his daughter to move in? As the last notice to quit was invalid and not acted as well as the rent review never being in writing?

Or am I missing something?

Curious1002 · 29-11-2019 4:47pm

ec18 wrote: »

you seem to have a bit of a vendetta against the LL, given the research and digging you have done on their personal/business affairs. Which could all be declared invalid or inadmissible as the dispute centres on the notice issued to you to quit to allow his daughter to move in? As the last notice to quit was invalid and not acted as well as the rent review never being in writing?

Or am I missing something?

Just to be clear - the reading and research i have been doing has started when i was handed the first notice of termination. It's a simple and wise reaction to the action taken against me. Wouldnt you agree? Wouldnt you do the same?

The doc that my own LL forwarded to me back in Feb was probably done by his own error. I never did anything with it other than reading

Now it's super helpful.

Vendetta? Not really. I call it a defense mechanism and preparation to get all the facts together, drafting a cover note and finally filing a dispute. Hardly vendetta. But a point taken, thank you.

MacDanger · 29-11-2019 5:01pm

Good luck with it OP.

No harm in contacting Revenue, if he's legit then he'll have nothing to fear and if he's not then it's time he got his comeuppance, he sounds like a scumbag with the way he's behaving.

Curious1002 · 29-11-2019 5:03pm

beauf wrote: »

You are factually incorrect and you keep deliberately misrepresenting what I've said.

I never even said I was right and directed to where to get proper clarification.

More so I suggested you could win such a case.

How that is anti tenant and angry I have no idea.

I see your point. I got that nagging feeling for a while now that you are here to challenge my story, which is also a good thing. This is exactly what I would get at the hearing so I better get ready to answer all the questions, the uncomfortable ones too.
In my above statement I referred rather to you questioning the rent amount I pay, if my LL or I am a sublet or where i got the evidence from - no matter what i answered you came up with more questions.

But the truth is that my story is really very simple here which in a nutshell is presented in my opening post.
It does sound weird that a good tenant is being pushed out for no obvious reasons but that's the sad part of this story and thats why i came here for some advice and support, which i am getting both. Super thanks to all!

If it was a situation of me never getting any previous notices or warnings, but only one notice stating that his daughter is moving in - that's fine and it's called tough love, I would suck it up and move on. But I wanted to show you all the subtle pre-action the LL took to gradually push me out, which i bet worked on many of his current / previous tenants.

Curious1002 · 29-11-2019 5:15pm

beauf wrote: »

From other posters its seems the RTB can look at the situation in its entirety and make a determination from that is its primary objective of the termination was to penalize the tenant.

Thats a tough one because every of my evidence can be easily explained by my LL's solicitor e.g.
1. Ohh we just made a little harmless error here.
2. Ohh we didn't mean this letter to be read as "threatening" or a "warning", it was just to let the guy know that we will be writing to him again soon.
3- Ohh, this conversation never took place.
4. Ohh there is a recording? We didnt know we were recorded - the evidence can not be admitted then if we were not aware of being recorded.
5. Ohh, the legal jargon can be difficult to understand sometimes, he probably misread / misinterpreted my and my client's intention wrong. English is not the tenant's first language after-all. :rolleyes:
Etc.

The RTB does not provide me with any advice. They only explain the process which i can read about myself. They would appoint an adjudicator who is a barrister and entirely independent to RTB. I couldnt even find out about similar to mine cases from the PRTB / Threshold representatives. Apparently neither RTB or Threshold provide support on the hearing day, not as witnesses.

I learnt more about the Legislation from this post and quotes of the Act than RTB and Threshold could ever tell me.

The_Fitz · 29-11-2019 5:16pm

Good luck with this OP.

beauf · 29-11-2019 6:16pm

Curious1002 wrote: »

I see your point. I got that nagging feeling for a while now that you are here to challenge my story,....

No reason to. Its a very common situation. Lot of other peoples in the same situation. Should be straight foward in the RTB. You are entirely over thinking it in my opinion. But its only natural since its where you live.

I'd be more curious about the LL, but I think you are taking any question personally, so I won't

fash · 29-11-2019 7:11pm

listermint wrote: »

Sorry just spotted this part of the post and was highly amused by it.

A landlord with multiple properties like this would have his daughter paying any rent.

lolcopter.

'If' and i mean if the daughter exists i doubt she will be placed in the cheapest apartment he has.

Do you really believe this ... ? like genuinely without a smile.

Good point: goes to the genuineness of the need notified.

Termination Letter from landlord with multiple properties

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