Third Secretary & Development Specialist Campaign 2020

PeachL00pies · 06-11-2020 11:29am

Third time applying for Third Sec. Happy with my OOM. Also applied for DSO as I've a medical background and I'm currently working in an NGO. Looks like they'll be planning for the New Year in terms of appointments but I know that COVID has caused mobility issues with current Third Secs.

completedit · 06-11-2020 11:33am

PeachL00pies wrote: »

Third time applying for Third Sec. Happy with my OOM. Also applied for DSO as I've a medical background and I'm currently working in an NGO. Looks like they'll be planning for the New Year in terms of appointments but I know that COVID has caused mobility issues with current Third Secs.

How often do the roles come up?

chrishic · 06-11-2020 11:37am

Just got a call to video interview for the development role there. Any tips/ideas going forward?

heffo1 · 06-11-2020 11:40am

chrishic wrote: »

Just got a call to video interview for the development role there. Any tips/ideas going forward?

Thats brilliant! Do you mind me asking whereabouts you were on the OOM for it?

PeachL00pies · 06-11-2020 11:41am

I applied in 2017 and 2018. I placed 40 outside the qualifying OOM in 2017 and failed the SJT in 2018. Positions used to come up every 2-ish years. They panelled more people in 2018 than in previously years and it served them until this year.

completedit · 06-11-2020 11:42am

Third times a charm. Best of luck with it

ddpas · 06-11-2020 11:44am

Got a call for interview for third secretary, I've never done a recorded interview before so this will be very interesting!!

chrishic · 06-11-2020 11:47am

heffo1 wrote: »

Thats brilliant! Do you mind me asking whereabouts you were on the OOM for it?

I was around 7 in the DSO, just got the invite to third secretary there too.

Best of luck to all waiting!

emhds · 06-11-2020 11:50am

Just got invited for an interview at stage 2 - any advice on how to best answer the questions? And does anyone have any indication as to what the criteria are for passing or how we're marked?

heffo1 · 06-11-2020 11:52am

chrishic wrote: »

I was around 7 in the DSO, just got the invite to third secretary there too.

Best of luck to all waiting!

Thats great, I'm in the 500s for DSO so I'll be a while waiting yet! Best of luck with it!

Aleece2020 · 06-11-2020 12:10pm

chrishic wrote: »

I was around 7 in the DSO, just got the invite to third secretary there too.

Best of luck to all waiting!

Good to know that it’s moving already. Much faster than expected.

Itchyfeet89 · 06-11-2020 12:33pm

Annoyed as I did really well in numerical. I still passed but 700 overall so annoyed that numerical didn't count in the end

completedit · 06-11-2020 12:37pm

Itchyfeet89 wrote: »

Annoyed as I did really well in numerical. I still passed but 700 overall so annoyed that numerical didn't count in the end

Assuming you were born 89 also. Be interested in knowing the average age of those going for the role. Like I really would like to pursue the Third Sec career but wondering if age will count against me as I push into my 30's. Similarly, I did well on numerical, but I wouldn't have expected to. Prior to the tests, I was happy with the method of counting just the verbal and SJ.

delricyo · 06-11-2020 12:39pm

completedit wrote: »

Assuming you were born 89 also. Be interested in knowing the average age of those going for the role. Like I really would like to pursue the Third Sec career but wondering if age will count against me as I push into my 30's.

Age should never really be a factor - either officially or unofficially. The days of AO/TS getting requited in their early 20s are probably over - as the civil service are looking for some experience as well as the qualifications.
I was applying for lots of AO jobs well into my 30s and I found my experience was of benefit

completedit · 06-11-2020 12:42pm

Brilliant. I might see if I can get an internship with the commission or whatever and have the Third Sec as a medium-term goal.

Passing the aptitude tests has given me some confidence. I failed one for a really great programme with the EU back in January and I would gauge that the TC aptitude tests were slightly harder.

Daisies · 06-11-2020 12:43pm

completedit wrote: »

Assuming you were born 89 also. Be interested in knowing the average age of those going for the role. Like I really would like to pursue the Third Sec career but wondering if age will count against me as I push into my 30's. Similarly, I did well on numerical, but I wouldn't have expected to. Prior to the tests, I was happy with the method of counting just the verbal and SJ.

The age range for the last intake of 3rd Secs varied from mid 20s to early 40s so I wouldn't worry too much.

blithe · 06-11-2020 12:47pm

Just got invited to the video interviews for TS this weekend too. Have never done an online video interview like this before either so it'll be interesting!

emhds · 06-11-2020 12:49pm

completedit wrote: »

Brilliant. I might see if I can get an internship with the commission or whatever and have the Third Sec as a medium-term goal.

Passing the aptitude tests has given me some confidence. I failed one for a really great programme with the EU back in January and I would gauge that the TC aptitude tests were slightly harder.

Commission Bluebook is a really good program, and if you're successful in your role you can, with a bit of luck, be invited to become a Junior Professional.

And by EU program, do you mean the EPSO exams? Generally the passing rate for those tests is <1%. Only 5 Irish people passed them last year. Usually those who pass say that they do hours of practice exams for months before sitting them, so definitely do take that into consideration going forward! Also, the Irish government offers citizens a license for training packs, just so you know! (I didn't and wrote into them saying we should start doing it. Got a reply telling me they already did, and that I had just failed to tick a box when applying - felt very silly indeed!)

completedit · 06-11-2020 12:55pm

emhds wrote: »

Commission Bluebook is a really good program, and if you're successful in your role you can, with a bit of luck, be invited to become a Junior Professional.

And by EU program, do you mean the EPSO exams? Generally the passing rate for those tests is <1%. Only 5 Irish people passed them last year. Usually those who pass say that they do hours of practice exams for months before sitting them, so definitely do take that into consideration going forward! Also, the Irish government offers citizens a license for training packs, just so you know! (I didn't and wrote into them saying we should start doing it. Got a reply telling me they already did, and that I had just failed to tick a box when applying - felt very silly indeed!)

Hey,

Nice information.

The programme was an overseas development officer. I don't even think it was an internship but with Covid it's gone from my memory. But, from what I remember, I don't think I'd have even been working in Brussels or Strasbourg.

Do you mean the abstract reasoning, Verbal and Numerical reasoning EPSO exams? Are they really that tough? I went for the test in the IFSC and got knocked out in the preliminary round - I scored 13 in the Verbal, and 5 in both the logical and abstract reasoning. I seem to remember 10 being a pass. I did very little prep. The DFA emailed me with some links that I actually linked to earlier in this thread for some prep material.

Daisies · 06-11-2020 12:59pm

Called for the next round in the DSO comp. Any idea what OOM they have called forward in the DSO section?

emhds · 06-11-2020 1:01pm

completedit wrote: »

Hey,

Nice information.

The programme was an overseas development officer. I don't even think it was an internship but with Covid it's gone from my memory. But, from what I remember, I don't think I'd have even been working in Brussels or Strasbourg.

Do you mean the abstract reasoning, Verbal and Numerical reasoning EPSO exams? I got. Knocked out in the prelimary round - I scored 13 in the Verbal, and 5 in both the logical and abstract reasoning. I seem to remember 10 being a pass. I did very little prep. The DFA emailed me with some links, that I actually linked to earlier in this thread for some prep material.

Yes those ones! I saw the links you posted, but they actually will provide you with a license to eutraining.eu with some practice exams once you've been called to sit the exams. You need to give them a scan of your passport etc. when doing so. They're notoriously difficult to pass. In my masters degree, there was an entire course people could take (for actual credits) just on the EPSO exams.

PeachL00pies · 06-11-2020 1:02pm

Daisies wrote: »

Called for the next round in the DSO comp. Any idea what OOM they have called forward in the DSO section?

I was 79 on the OoM and haven't been called...

completedit · 06-11-2020 1:06pm

emhds wrote: »

Yes those ones! I saw the links you posted, but they actually will provide you with a license to eutraining.eu with some practice exams once you've been called to sit the exams. You need to give them a scan of your passport etc. when doing so. They're notoriously difficult to pass. In my masters degree, there was an entire course people could take (for actual credits) just on the EPSO exams.[/quote

That's really interesting. Thanks for this information and sense of perspective.

R2020C · 06-11-2020 1:07pm

Thanks so much for your help! Don’t think I’ve been placed high enough to get called for the interview but finding the whole process weirdly fascinating ðŸ€£

PeachL00pies · 06-11-2020 1:08pm

completedit wrote: »

emhds wrote: »

Yes those ones! I saw the links you posted, but they actually will provide you with a license to eutraining.eu with some practice exams once you've been called to sit the exams. You need to give them a scan of your passport etc. when doing so. They're notoriously difficult to pass. In my masters degree, there was an entire course people could take (for actual credits) just on the EPSO exams.[/quote

That's really interesting. Thanks for this information and sense of perspective.

Keep an eye on the shorter term vacancies which arise for graduates in both DFA and the Missions abroad. A lot of contracts are 1-2 years with most people in those positions treated as temporary Third Secs. You get a lot of experience and responsibility.

Paladin_ · 06-11-2020 1:10pm

completedit wrote: »

Brilliant. I might see if I can get an internship with the commission or whatever and have the Third Sec as a medium-term goal.

Passing the aptitude tests has given me some confidence. I failed one for a really great programme with the EU back in January and I would gauge that the TC aptitude tests were slightly harder.

If you're interested in EU traineeships, you should also look outside the big three (Commission, Council, Parliament). Those are great on a CV but a lot of the individual agencies and EEAS delegations also take on trainees and they're usually not as competitive and sometimes the work is more substantive.

Altho obviously still apply to the big three too. EP is open at the moment I think - I did one before and it was a big boost in getting more experience down the line, including with DFA.

Also keep an eye out for Graduate Policy Officer and Policy Advisor roles with the Department (usually PMUNs Geneva + New York, London, Perm Rep in Brussels, and the Irish missions to the Council of Europe in Strasbourg and the OSCE in Vienna, and a few others). Usually advertised directly on their own webpages and not on the DFA main page. They're another great way of getting a big boost in experience and credibility early on (contracts range from 11 months to two years). Also JPIs with Irish Aid and UNV.

London embassy is actually looking for a GPO until 5pm today.

emhds · 06-11-2020 1:14pm

Paladin_ wrote: »

If you're interested in EU traineeships, you should also look outside the big three (Commission, Council, Parliament). Those are great on a CV but a lot of the individual agencies and EEAS delegations also take on trainees and they're usually not as competitive and sometimes the work is more substantive.

Altho obviously still apply to the big three too. EP is open at the moment I think - I did one before and it was a big boost in getting more experience down the line, including with DFA.

Also keep an eye out for Graduate Policy Officer and Policy Advisor roles with the Department (usually PMUNs Geneva + New York, London, Perm Rep in Brussels, and the Irish missions to the Council of Europe in Strasbourg and the OSCE in Vienna, and a few others). Usually advertised directly on their own webpages and not on the DFA main page. They're another great way of getting a big boost in experience and credibility early on (contracts range from 11 months to two years). Also JPIs with Irish Aid and UNV.

London embassy is actually looking for a GPO until 5pm today.

Second all of this advice! Also consider emailing MEPs individually, they often take in interns as trainee parliamentary assistants.

Ramnavk2 · 06-11-2020 1:44pm

Any indication as to what level on the OOM they've invited to the video interviews for TS?

HartsHat · 06-11-2020 1:52pm

completedit wrote: »

How often do the roles come up?

Depends on a number of factors.

In the last 12 years something like this:

2007
2013
2015
2017
2018
2020

So as you can see it is dependent on the economy and needs of the diplomatic stream.

PurpleRainx · 06-11-2020 2:27pm

Hi All. I’ve received two video interviews invites-one for DS and the other for TS. Are these really two separate interviews? Seems strange as the first stage applied to both DS and TS.

Also -we only have until Tuesday to do! Not much time. That’s my weekend plans of doing nothing gone but still!

HartsHat · 06-11-2020 2:31pm

PurpleRainx wrote: »

Hi All. I’ve received two video interviews invites-one for DS and the other for TS. Are these really two separate interviews? Seems strange as the first stage applied to both DS and TS.

Also -we only have until Tuesday to do! Not much time. That’s my weekend plans of doing nothing gone but still!

They're two separate streams and therefore will have different examiners, different questions, and different answers. They're different jobs.

R2020C · 06-11-2020 2:37pm

PurpleRainx wrote: »

Hi All. I’ve received two video interviews invites-one for DS and the other for TS. Are these really two separate interviews? Seems strange as the first stage applied to both DS and TS.

Also -we only have until Tuesday to do! Not much time. That’s my weekend plans of doing nothing gone but still!

Good luck! Do you mind me asking what your OOM rough range was for TS? If you don’t want to say that’s completely fine! (I know it’s none of my business)

emhds · 06-11-2020 2:39pm

Does anyone have any idea of where on the OOM you need to be to have a realistic chance at getting the job? Like say you pass the interview stages, speak a few languages and have the right qualifications/experience. Where would be a realistic place to be starting from in order to make it on the panel if they’re recruiting 30-40 in the end?

Daisies · 06-11-2020 2:46pm

PurpleRainx wrote: »

Hi All. I’ve received two video interviews invites-one for DS and the other for TS. Are these really two separate interviews? Seems strange as the first stage applied to both DS and TS.

Also -we only have until Tuesday to do! Not much time. That’s my weekend plans of doing nothing gone but still!

I got called for interview for the DSO comp (didn't apply for TS) and looking at the questions you need to answer, they are quite development focussed. I would imagine the TS ones are more foreign policy orientated.

augustgetaway · 06-11-2020 2:54pm

The questions for TS are definitely something else, mostly to do with management, delivering results and adaptability and I truly thought they’d be more to do with foreign policy, international relations, etc.

I guess I’m in for a long weekend of trying to twist my experience in retail & university to fit those questions!

Pseudonymised · 06-11-2020 3:05pm

augustgetaway wrote: »

The questions for TS are definitely something else, mostly to do with management, delivering results and adaptability and I truly thought they’d be more to do with foreign policy, international relations, etc.

I guess I’m in for a long weekend of trying to twist my experience in retail & university to fit those questions!

I've not been invited to the interview yet, but hoping will be at some stage! Did they send on the questions that will be asked or competencies?

augustgetaway · 06-11-2020 3:10pm

Pseudonymised wrote: »

I've not been invited to the interview yet, but hoping will be at some stage! Did they send on the questions that will be asked or competencies?

Best of luck!

Yep, they sent on the exact questions which is great!

Pseudonymised · 06-11-2020 3:13pm

augustgetaway wrote: »

Best of luck!

Yep, they sent on the exact questions which is great!

Ah that's brilliant, at least takes away the stress of the unknown! Good luck with it

PeachL00pies · 06-11-2020 4:12pm

They called up to 206 for Third Sec and up to 72 for DSO.

Daisies · 06-11-2020 4:16pm

PeachL00pies wrote: »

They called up to 206 for Third Sec and up to 72 for DSO.

Did PAS tell you that? I wonder how high they will go.

PeachL00pies · 06-11-2020 4:22pm

Daisies wrote: »

Did PAS tell you that? I wonder how high they will go.

Yeah, I asked because I didn't get called for DSO. I'm in the 70s.

Daisies · 06-11-2020 4:24pm

PeachL00pies wrote: »

Yeah, I asked because I didn't get called for DSO. I'm in the 70s.

Ah ok. You must be gutted to be just outside what was called.

PeachL00pies · 06-11-2020 4:27pm

Daisies wrote: »

Ah ok. You must be gutted to be just outside what was called.

You've no idea. Was enthusiastic about the role because I have medical experience and experience in health policy from a development perspective. Very much doubt that they'll do a second pull from the OoM.

FenFlynn · 06-11-2020 5:26pm

Just saw this post, I've been following the AO thread. Passed both streams (TS &AO) this year, really delighted as I've failed so many. I'm working as EO currently, so hopefully being in the civil service already would help a bit with the interview.
Also got called for recorded interview, that's quite daunting not to have anyone asking questions but just talking into the camera. Good luck to those got through to 2 stage, they generally call a second or third round depending on how well the 1st round do at this stage. There is no guarantee all of us would pass the interview, as you have to pass every competency to go through to the next round. I signed up to interviewgold last year for the EO, so for anyone looking to do some practice, it's not a bad idea. You could record yourself and watch back

belgowho · 06-11-2020 5:56pm

Just want to double check and if others agree. The SOLE competencies we should address as per form are:

Leadership Potential
Analysis and Decision Making
Delivery of Results
Interpersonal and Communication Skills
Drive and Commitment
Specialist Knowledge, expertise etc

Are we counting the likes of "High degree of Adaptability" or "High Degree of Resourcefulness" as individual competencies also?

ticklemonster · 06-11-2020 6:23pm

Is there any information about how many questions we have to answer and how long for each?

Aleece2020 · 06-11-2020 8:15pm

PeachL00pies wrote: »

They called up to 206 for Third Sec and up to 72 for DSO.

Did they indicate that they will do more in batches?

PearseCork92 · 06-11-2020 8:50pm

Aleece2020 wrote: »

Did they indicate that they will do more in batches?

The DFA is apparently one of the departments with the oldest average staff, and there are a lot of impending retirements. I don't know really, but you'd think they're trying to get as much fresh blood throught the door ahead of a possible recruitment embargo. I'd say the chances are quite high they'll take at least one more batch for testing.

PurpleRainx · 07-11-2020 10:06am

Sorry what form are you referring to? Do you mean the information booklet?

PurpleRainx · 07-11-2020 10:10am

Pseudonymised wrote: »

I've not been invited to the interview yet, but hoping will be at some stage! Did they send on the questions that will be asked or competencies?

Sorry but where did you find these questions? Under the link sent in the emails for video invites? How are we sure these are the only questions we can ask? Sorry I am waiting for access to a computer to open the video link so please excuse my ignorance!

Third Secretary & Development Specialist Campaign 2020

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