Unpaid Overtime Question

hannahmum · 26-01-2021 6:27pm #1

Hi There. My company states in their contract for senior employees that overtime may be required at times but will not be paid.
And under normal circumstances I just accept this, I am not a clock watcher, I will put in the hours to get the work done, and I am fairly well paid so everyone is a winner.

However in the last 9 months I have been on a 4 day week - and only paid for 4 days.
Yet my unpaid overtime is MORE than a day per week.
So in reality I have worked 5.5 days per week and only been paid for 4.
In effect I have been given a 20% reduction in pay.

Yes- I know I am lucky to still have a job.
And I know that the contract says overtime isn't paid.
But this feels excessive and unfair, especially as at certain times last year, other employees were put back to a 5 day week, but I remained at 4 days.
The 4 days is set to continue for another while (I work in Hospitality but in an office role), as is the unpaid overtime.

I was wondering if anyone has come across a situation like this, and has any advice. Bear in mind I am a senior person here so I don't want to fall out with my employer- but I do think it needs addressing- however wondering as the contract states its expected and unpaid have I a leg to stand on?

TIA.

_Brian · 26-01-2021 6:57pm

Any chance of getting time back in lieu??

I think asking to be treated fairly isn’t rocking the boat and if it is I’d be having a long term strategy to work somewhere that appreciates employees.

jrosen · 26-01-2021 7:08pm

I think senior employees not being paid for overtime is pretty common.

Are you on a 4 day week because you requested it? Or because they wanted you to reduce.
Would you be happy to go back to a 5 day week?

I think doing 1.5 days per week in overtime on a consistent basis is excessive and points to a problem somewhere. Its definitely worth raising and while your contact states over time is unpaid it does say "at times" which this isn't.

beauf · 26-01-2021 11:11pm

There are number of ways of dealing with this.

You could just go get a different job. That's the nuclear option.

You could work your core hours and push all the non critical stuff into a backlog.

Delegate some of the work to other people. Especially the ones on a 5 day week.

Start making yourself unavailable. Push back.

https://hbr.org/1999/11/management-time-whos-got-the-monkey

thefa · 27-01-2021 12:10am

I think you have to bite the bullet here and have the conversation with your manager. You’ve accommodated it and built the expectation at this stage but it needs to be curtailed. If there’s people who’s days have been increased too, it sounds like you’re being taken advantage of.

I’m salaried with a similar line on my contract and there’s a specific time of the year where I end up averaging similar or possibly more overtime per week but only for a few weeks. 9 months wouldn’t be sustainable.

Has there been someone let go or, as somebody else asked, were your days cut from 5 to 4 back when this started?

ted1 · 27-01-2021 12:16am

hannahmum wrote: »

Hi There. My company states in their contract for senior employees that overtime may be required at times but will not be paid.
And under normal circumstances I just accept this, I am not a clock watcher, I will put in the hours to get the work done, and I am fairly well paid so everyone is a winner.

However in the last 9 months I have been on a 4 day week - and only paid for 4 days.
Yet my unpaid overtime is MORE than a day per week.
So in reality I have worked 5.5 days per week and only been paid for 4.
In effect I have been given a 20% reduction in pay.

Yes- I know I am lucky to still have a job.
And I know that the contract says overtime isn't paid.
But this feels excessive and unfair, especially as at certain times last year, other employees were put back to a 5 day week, but I remained at 4 days.
The 4 days is set to continue for another while (I work in Hospitality but in an office role), as is the unpaid overtime.

I was wondering if anyone has come across a situation like this, and has any advice. Bear in mind I am a senior person here so I don't want to fall out with my employer- but I do think it needs addressing- however wondering as the contract states its expected and unpaid have I a leg to stand on?

TIA.

Talk to them.

Your take home shouldn’t be down anywhere near 20%.

27-01-2021 1:08am

It's the same in my line of work: senior employees don't get overtime paid.

This is because theoretically they should be managing their time and workload.

I'd think the question comes down to how this 4-day week arrangement came about.
If it was because workload was supposed to be down, and this isn't the case, you need to raise this with your boss and get your 5-day week reinstated.
If it was because of financial instability, and a decision by your boss that hours had to be cut, then it's up to your boss to make sure those hours stay cut, and you should raise it with them that they need to reduce your workload.

Strumms · 27-01-2021 4:07am

If you don’t get paid overtime you simply should be getting time in lieu...

If you do extra for nothing you’ll be doing extra for nothing forever...

I agree when joining an employer to give of my time, effort, expertises and experience for 40 hours a week, shift say Mon - Fri 0900-1700. The position of accountant say... 60,000 per year..

If I’m required to do more then 40 hours to complete work that has been assigned to me or my department...

I’m ‘told’ : “hey Strumms, you’re gonna need to give us a few more hours this week because of xyz”... it’s a refusal.

I’m ‘asked’ : “ hey Strumms, we really appreciate if maybe you could do a couple of 11 / 12 hour days this week or else come in for 4 hours on Saturday please? “ ... I’m fairly sure unless I’ve plans I’m saying yes... as long as I’m rewarded with cash or time and half for all those extra hours...

beauf · 27-01-2021 4:55am

I think it devalue your value in the eyes of your peers. If you will work for free, why pay you.
It becomes cultural and then systemic. Its usually symptomatic of a cascade of bigger issues within the organization.

hannahmum · 27-01-2021 1:54pm

Thank you all for the replies. There is some great advice and clarity there.

To answer the few queries- I’m a head of department. I had 5 full time direct reports. All went on full lay off last March. I’ve had 1 employee back for a few weeks at busier times (4 day week!). Otherwise all has fallen to me.
Obviously this has never happened before.
The boss doesn’t have a great understanding of what my role entails, and tbh he doesn’t want to ask or know.
While business has been almost non existent at level 5 lockdown times, there are still minimum activities that need to be completed, and backlogs from weeks when we are busier.
These have ensured that there wasn’t one day in 2020 where I wasn’t under pressure and chasing deadlines.
The 4 day week is to save the company money.
Extra days are given as lieu days, but extra hours are not. My working day has become longer, and longer...

Thank you all, I needed the third party clarity.

beauf · 27-01-2021 2:51pm

Sometimes you have to let a system fail before it gets attention. If you keep saving it there is no motivation to change..

mick087 · 27-01-2021 2:53pm

Are you in a union.
If not join a union and look at getting staff members to join.
Then when you have issues your have representation and advice on all the legal stuff.

jim o doom · 27-01-2021 2:59pm

hannahmum wrote: »

While business has been almost non existent at level 5 lockdown times, there are still minimum activities that need to be completed, and backlogs from weeks when we are busier.

Hey there, I will echo other posters and recommend you speak to the boss.

Are you the only person working there currently? If the staff you manage are not there at all, perhaps on the covid payments and the company has no money coming in due to being non-operational, it seems possible that the company cannot afford to pay your full wage.

I'm not suggesting you should be doing 1 day for free, but I do wonder how long any company can withstand level 5 lockdown and come out the other side still operating.

Are there other members of staff at or near your level working and being paid for a full 5 day week?

27-01-2021 3:02pm

If you are only paid for 4 days, then you are available for work on the 5th day. You could always say you took a part time job on Friday to pay the bills, and as such are unavailable to them on Friday unless they want to reinstate the 5 day week.

As others have said, if they can get 5 days work for 4 days wages, they will never seek to change the status quo. You don't need to be belligerent to stand up for your rights and either work 4 days or get paid for 5.

Mrs OBumble · 27-01-2021 3:24pm

All this talk of unions and 2nd jobs and clock-watching is a joke for a head of department.

But you do need to start better managing the boss: he may not want to know, but if he wants a company that's functioning at the end of this, he needs to know. You need to find the levers to pull so that he comes to understand - auditors, accountants, peers in the same area of business - we cannot know what will work, you need to figure it out.

And you do need to start figuring out some possible solutions. Presumably your PUPpies aren't going to come back for less than a full week? But is there any way around that? Is there ANY way you could get some cashflow going if you had some of them back?

Strumms · 27-01-2021 3:35pm

beauf wrote: »

Sometimes you have to let a system fail before it gets attention. If you keep saving it there is no motivation to change..

10000%....

You keep doing extra to paper over the cracks, you’ll be left doing it.

When you don’t do it or can’t do it then, you’ll have the finger pointed at you because you’ll have enabled that as the new norm, the expected ...

Doing ‘extra’, going over and above from time to time is fine, doing that routinely to get results isn’t. You’ll screw yourselves and your colleagues.

GreeBo · 27-01-2021 4:14pm

hannahmum wrote: »

Thank you all for the replies. There is some great advice and clarity there.

To answer the few queries- I’m a head of department. I had 5 full time direct reports. All went on full lay off last March. I’ve had 1 employee back for a few weeks at busier times (4 day week!). Otherwise all has fallen to me.
Obviously this has never happened before.
The boss doesn’t have a great understanding of what my role entails, and tbh he doesn’t want to ask or know.
While business has been almost non existent at level 5 lockdown times, there are still minimum activities that need to be completed, and backlogs from weeks when we are busier.
These have ensured that there wasn’t one day in 2020 where I wasn’t under pressure and chasing deadlines.
The 4 day week is to save the company money.
Extra days are given as lieu days, but extra hours are not. My working day has become longer, and longer...

Thank you all, I needed the third party clarity.

If you have 5 days of work to get through then you need to work 5 days, not work 20% overtime on each of the 4 days.
now they still might only pay you for 4 days, but you will get the 5th day in lieu.

Unpaid Overtime Question

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