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Can find a family in 1911 census but not in 1901

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  • 30-05-2012 11:38pm
    #1
    TCDStudent1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭


    Here is the family I am interested in in the 1911 census:

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Balla/Lisnolan/710820/

    However, I cannot find them in the 1901 census. I dont think they lived in Lisnolan in 1901 but I dont know what part of Mayo that Patrick Loftus lived in.

    This has put me at a standstill because I cant go back further into the church records when I dont know what parish he lived in for 1901....

    any suggestions on how to proceed???


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    #2
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Have a look at this: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FYD9-C3X

    I searched with spouse's first name Bridget, and that was the only Patrick Loftus that came up in the right time-frame.


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    #3
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    TCDStudent1 wrote: »
    Here is the family I am interested in in the 1911 census:

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Balla/Lisnolan/710820/

    However, I cannot find them in the 1901 census. I dont think they lived in Lisnolan in 1901 but I dont know what part of Mayo that Patrick Loftus lived in.

    This has put me at a standstill because I cant go back further into the church records when I dont know what parish he lived in for 1901....

    any suggestions on how to proceed???
    Based on the 1911 census they were married in about 1906, and their kids born afterwards, so your best bet would be to try and find their marriage, if you can't find that then one of the kids birth records would Have bridgets maiden name in it


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    #4
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    I found the marriage above too, bridgets maiden name being Nally, and there's a Bridget nally in Balla in 1901. http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Balla/Ballintleva/1581921/


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    #5
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    dido2 wrote: »
    I found the marriage above too, bridgets maiden name being Nally, and there's a Bridget nally in Balla in 1901. http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Balla/Ballintleva/1581921/
    How did you get her maiden name?


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    #6
    Coolnabacky1873
    Registered Users Posts: 556 ✭✭✭Coolnabacky1873


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    How did you get her maiden name?

    Search all the Bridget marriages in the Claremorris registration district for 1906 on Familysearch.

    There are 14 in total, only two for Jan-Mar, and only one of those has matching page/volume numbers (4/101) for the Patrick Loftus entry - Bridget Nally.


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    #7
    Hermy
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Is the 1922 mentioned in the title a typo?

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #8
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Coolnabacky1873 wrote: »
    Search all the Bridget marriages in the Claremorris registration district for 1906 on Familysearch....
    Thanks. I had actually tried that, and nothing came up.

    I have had similar things happen to me before: FamilySearch telling me that there are no matches on a search when some actually exist. I suspect there is a little gremlin in there that has taken a dislike to me. Unfair: I have always been polite to Mormon missionaries.


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    #9
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Hermy wrote: »
    Is the 1922 mentioned in the title a typo?
    It has to be: double-tap on 2 rather than 1.


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    #10
    TCDStudent1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭TCDStudent1


    Is the 1922 mentioned in the title a typo?

    Yes, sorry it should be 1911.

    Sorry my post wasnt very clear - I wrote it hurriedly.

    I am able to investigate Bridget's past. I have information on them from my direct family sources.

    The problem I have is going back on the Loftus side. I dont know where he lived in 1901 and that has put a halt to me delving into parish records (As I dont know which parish....)

    Would the marriage cert help me find out where he could have been in 1901?


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    #11
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Their marriage cert should have his father's name and the groom's address at the time of marriage. Hopefully they will have been living in the same place then. You can then look at 1901 for the father's name, as well as searching the area around this address if they're not at it. In very general terms, people in rural areas are less likely to have moved house, than in Dublin or Cork.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #12
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    I used Ancestrys website to find the maiden name, it has the advantage over familysearch of putting all those on the same page together so it can speed things up!

    The marriage cert could be a help to you, it will have an address for both the groom and the grooms father along with their occupations so it can help if the occupation was anything a little unusal too on the census...
    I had the problem of finding a marriage cert for 2 people with unusual enough surnames in 1900 but it was in Tipperary rather than in Cork but I've taken it as right because there are no other right combinations...


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    #13
    Geniecon
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Geniecon


    Do you know names of children born after the 1911 census? If so, you could work out what his mother's name was, going on naming patterns. His father could have been Michael, as the first boy had the same name.
    Pattern was;
    1st boy - named after paternal grandfather
    2nd boy - named after maternal grandfather
    2rd boy - named after the father
    Subsequent male children after paternal uncles
    1st girl - named after maternal grandmother
    2nd girl - named after paternal grandmother
    3rd girl - named after mother
    Subsequent girls named after maternal aunts
    However, this is not always set in stone for various reasons. A child could also have been named after an uncle or aunt who died young. Also, I have heard about a superstition about three generations of the same name in a family i.e. if his father was also named Patrick and was still alive, an alternative name was given to the first boy. I have seen where this happened, but I wouldn't be sure that it was always observed.


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    #14
    RGM
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭RGM


    Geniecon wrote: »
    Do you know names of children born after the 1911 census? If so, you could work out what his mother's name was, going on naming patterns. His father could have been Michael, as the first boy had the same name.
    Pattern was;
    1st boy - named after paternal grandfather
    2nd boy - named after maternal grandfather
    2rd boy - named after the father
    Subsequent male children after paternal uncles
    1st girl - named after maternal grandmother
    2nd girl - named after paternal grandmother
    3rd girl - named after mother
    Subsequent girls named after maternal aunts
    However, this is not always set in stone for various reasons. A child could also have been named after an uncle or aunt who died young. Also, I have heard about a superstition about three generations of the same name in a family i.e. if his father was also named Patrick and was still alive, an alternative name was given to the first boy. I have seen where this happened, but I wouldn't be sure that it was always observed.

    I think the biggest problem making assumptions this way is that it was common for children to die young. Always a chance there was a kid you don't know about.

    It's also difficult because you can end up with multiple families using mostly the same names.


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    #15
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    TCDStudent1 wrote: »
    Yes, sorry it should be 1911.

    Sorry my post wasnt very clear - I wrote it hurriedly.

    I am able to investigate Bridget's past. I have information on them from my direct family sources.

    The problem I have is going back on the Loftus side. I dont know where he lived in 1901 and that has put a halt to me delving into parish records (As I dont know which parish....)

    Would the marriage cert help me find out where he could have been in 1901?

    I've edited the thread title to say 1911 instead of 1922, so should clear up any confusion -Mod


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    #16
    Geniecon
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Geniecon


    Geniecon wrote: »
    Do you know names of children born after the 1911 census? If so, you could work out what his mother's name was, going on naming patterns. His father could have been Michael, as the first boy had the same name.
    Pattern was;
    1st boy - named after paternal grandfather
    2nd boy - named after maternal grandfather
    2rd boy - named after the father
    Subsequent male children after paternal uncles
    1st girl - named after maternal grandmother
    2nd girl - named after paternal grandmother
    3rd girl - named after mother
    Subsequent girls named after maternal aunts
    However, this is not always set in stone for various reasons. A child could also have been named after an uncle or aunt who died young. Also, I have heard about a superstition about three generations of the same name in a family i.e. if his father was also named Patrick and was still alive, an alternative name was given to the first boy. I have seen where this happened, but I wouldn't be sure that it was always observed.
    Sorry, I should have said "what his mother's name could have been"


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    #17
    TCDStudent1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭TCDStudent1


    How do I go about getting this marriage cert?

    It is a while since I did my family history research that I have forgotten :-(

    Do the local offices hold marriage records this far back, or do I have to go to a national office?


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