Car crash - who is responsible?

अधिनायक · 16-05-2006 1:41am #1

Miss X is driving along, turns a corner and immediately decides to pull an illegal U-turn across a solid white line. This causes the following driver, Miss Y to bang on the brakes. Mr Z was driving behind Miss Y and rear ends her car.

Does Miss X bear any responsibility for the damage Mr Z caused to Miss Y's car?

dermot_sheehan · 16-05-2006 2:10am

अधिनाय&#2325 wrote:

Miss X is driving along, turns a corner and immediately decides to pull an illegal U-turn across a solid white line. This causes the following driver, Miss Y to bang on the brakes. Mr Z was driving behind Miss Y and rear ends her car.

Does Miss X bear any responsibility for the damage Mr X caused to Miss Y's car?

Standard test for negligence is whether someone could reasonably foresee someone else suffering damage from their negligence (acting without the care that a reasonable person would give). Could Miss X Reasonably foresee Miss Y slamming on the brakes due to her negligent U-turn, and therefore Mr. X rearending her. That's a question of fact to be decided by a judge (pre-1986 it would have been by a jury) but I would hazzard a guess yes

Simon201 · 16-05-2006 2:41am

I'd say no - cos Mr Z's distance from Miss Y while driving behind her should be one at which he is safely able to stop regardless of the reason that Miss Y has to slam on the brakes.

Easygainer · 16-05-2006 8:29am

Y would try and sue X and Z. Going into the back of someone is as good as guilty without trial in the eyes of the court for the reason mentioned above. X also owes a duty of care to other drivers on the road and the damage probably passes the Glencar test.

Eoin · 16-05-2006 8:44am

अधिनाय&#2325 wrote:

Miss X is driving along, turns a corner and immediately decides to pull an illegal U-turn across a solid white line. This causes the following driver, Miss Y to bang on the brakes. Mr Z was driving behind Miss Y and rear ends her car.

Does Miss X bear any responsibility for the damage Mr Z caused to Miss Y's car?

IMO, Mr Z is definitely somewhat at fault - he was driving too close to Miss Y. She could have had to brake suddenly for a variety of reasons, and he didn't leave enough space for this. He could also get 2 penalty points for this.

Miss X is slightly less clear cut; she broke a law which would instantly earn her two penalty points - at least - if a Garda had seen her. Presumably the Gardai could add on an extra couple of points for "Driving without reasonable consideration", or even a mandatory court appearance for "reckless driving".

However, if a car is not actually involved in a collision, then it seems to be much harder to apportion the blame. In fact, I don't even think it is illegal to leave the scene of an accident if your car was not actually hit - even if you may have caused the accident?

Mr. Presentable · 16-05-2006 8:45am

The rear ender, variously mr x and mr z (??) should leave enough room in which to stop. End of, it's his fault.

Lplated · 16-05-2006 3:30pm

अधिनाय&#2325 wrote:

Does Miss X bear any responsibility for the damage Mr Z caused to Miss Y's car?

Simple answer is no. In Ireland you are absolutely responsible for the manner in which you drive your own car. Part of this involves taking care to avoid accident with the vehicle in front of you. Thus, if some one brakes suddenly and you rear-end them, it is completely your fault with no room for argument.

It is quite common, in these types of cases, when they appear before a Court to be 'assessment only' - meaning that the defendant (or the insurance company on his behalf) does not enter a full defence. Once it is admitted that Z drove into the back of Y, then the circumstances of why Z did so are irrelevant.

अधिनायक · 16-05-2006 3:42pm

What do you think would happen if someone slammed on the brakes while being tailgated by the police?

maidhc · 16-05-2006 3:42pm

Like Hardiman J I can only add "I agree".

You are not supposed to be that close to the car in front that you run into them if they make an emergency stop.

maidhc · 16-05-2006 3:46pm

अधिनाय&#2325 wrote:

What do you think would happen if someone slammed on the brakes while being tailgated by the police?

If they had a legitimate reason (e.g. child runs across the road, car pulls in front), then the gardaí are totally in the wrong. Otherise they get done for at least careless driving.

Lplated · 16-05-2006 4:08pm

अधिनाय&#2325 wrote:

What do you think would happen if someone slammed on the brakes while being tailgated by the police?

I think there is a better than 50% chance that the police car would crash into the back of the car whose brakes were 'slammed on'.

Mr_Roger_Bongos · 16-05-2006 4:23pm

Simple insurance rules apply. The driver behind is nearly always held responsible, except for extenuating circumstance e.g. Black Ice. Z should have kept an appropraite distance behind Y to enable him to react to any situation.

I'd say the courts would have to enforce this. But Z might have some action against X for reckless endangerment i.e. the only action Z could have taken to avoid X and Y, without hitting either, would have been to endanger his own life by going off the road, or swinging into the oncoming traffic lane.

Victor · 16-05-2006 8:56pm

Mr Z is responsible to Ms Y 100%. Mr Z might suggest that Ms X contribute.

Ms X has to direct liability to Ms Y.

Car crash - who is responsible?

Comments