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How to register motorcycle club??

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  • 25-02-2021 4:29pm
    #1
    chrabo
    Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭


    Hi folks, Looking to set up MX club with many riders to get going against new scrambler law.

    Cant find online any criteria to set up club, or where to register etc.

    Can someone advise me please??


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    #2
    ratracer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭ratracer


    chrabo wrote: »
    Hi folks, Looking to set up MX club with many riders to get going against new scrambler law.

    Cant find online any criteria to set up club, or where to register etc.

    Can someone advise me please??


    What is it your looking to fight ‘against’ exactly? And what do you hope to achieve for your new club?


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    #3
    chrabo
    Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭chrabo


    To either get trials from colite to use for enduro riding, or get some land from state to make a track. Lads in Limerick going well with this now. We looking for more midlands and dublin/wicklow spots. Only this tbh.


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    #4
    Fabio
    Registered Users Posts: 2,245 ✭✭✭Fabio


    Fair play, although I don't know the answer to your question. Maybe try MAG Ireland, ask them how to go about it? FEMA might be another resource, they're the European representative for motorcycle groups.

    The best of luck with the effort, it sounds good.


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    #5
    mr c
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭mr c


    chrabo wrote: »
    Hi folks, Looking to set up MX club with many riders to get going against new scrambler law.

    Cant find online any criteria to set up club, or where to register etc.

    Can someone advise me please??

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/sport_and_leisure/setting_up_a_new_club.html

    I think that should help,sports club etc. very same thing afaik


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    #6
    ratracer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭ratracer


    Best of luck with it, good to see interest in developing a sport.


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    #7
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,912 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    chrabo wrote: »
    To either get trials from colite to use for enduro riding, or get some land from state to make a track.

    That's the funniest thing I've heard in years tbh :pac:

    Will never happen as politicians in this country hate motorbikes and even if they didn't, insurance makes it impossible anyway.

    Life ain't always empty.



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    #8
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    That's the funniest thing I've heard in years tbh :pac:

    You'd have more chance asking the minister for a ........

    100% but sure let them on with it, there's a very good reason there isn't any government funded bike tracks.

    Not even taking into account the amount of road bike users is tiny never mind lads interested in trails, they're emails will be ignored.

    There's no official body to set one up as far as I'm aware op. So unlike say cycling Ireland you don't have criteria to meet and can just set up and rock on. Good luck but go into it eyes wide open.

    Also just note the new laws are more so aimed at young people on bikes in parks, greens and on roads.


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    #9
    chrabo
    Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭chrabo


    We will try to sort this out. I understand problem in parts of Dublin, Limerick and so on. But we are not criminals all of us. I have my own bikes insured, enduro as well. Hard work on.
    Impossible is nothing, just do it!


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    #10
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,872 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    That's the funniest thing I've heard in years tbh :pac:

    Will never happen as politicians in this country hate motorbikes and even if they didn't, insurance makes it impossible anyway.

    Yet we have bicycles doing nearly the exact same thing on state lands as the OP wants. So it's possible with the correct lobbying.

    You could even say that motorcycles are safer than bicycles in forestry as people will hear the motorbikes unlike bicycles.


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    #11
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Yet we have bicycles doing nearly the exact same thing on state lands as the OP wants. So it's possible with the correct lobbying.

    You could even say that motorcycles are safer than bicycles in forestry as people will hear the motorbikes unlike bicycles.

    Motorbikes have a much higher risk to the user than bicycles, there's also a lot of cycle tracks that were never actually sanctioned and people just make and use them.

    The liability implications are far too high, lobby as much as you like its been looked into by people from the view of it being government funded or privately funded and once they realised the implications in terms of liability was deemed a non runner.


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    #12
    chrabo
    Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭chrabo


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    Motorbikes have a much higher risk to the user than bicycles, there's also a lot of cycle tracks that were never actually sanctioned and people just make and use them.

    The liability implications are far too high, lobby as much as you like its been looked into by people from the view of it being government funded or privately funded and once they realised the implications in terms of liability was deemed a non runner.

    But, bikers have no insurance, enduro motors have full insurance and they are road legal. It is a big difference


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    #13
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    chrabo wrote: »
    But, bikers have no insurance, enduro motors have full insurance and they are road legal. It is a big difference

    Land owner / track operator is still liable for any damages / injuries.

    Those bikes are insured for road usage, against fire and theft and for commuting (believe it or not that is excluded as standard by one).
    You'd have to ask the individual insurer if using it on a track is covered. However that is very unlikely as racing/track use is precluded by the policy.
    Most of the bikes that would be used are not road legal either.


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    #14
    ratracer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭ratracer


    chrabo wrote: »
    But, bikers have no insurance, enduro motors have full insurance and they are road legal. It is a big difference

    I think this is not the way to form a club!

    Cyclists that are members of a recognised club are also members of Cycling Ireland, and have third party insurance.

    Also, the new ‘scrambler’ laws are targeting scramblers that aren’t road legal afaik, so those with no lights, or reg, or tax and insurance. These things are legal requirements for motor vehicles, not so for cyclists.


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    #15
    chrabo
    Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭chrabo


    ratracer wrote: »
    I think this is not the way to form a club!

    Cyclists that are members of a recognised club are also members of Cycling Ireland, and have third party insurance.

    Also, the new ‘scrambler’ laws are targeting scramblers that aren’t road legal afaik, so those with no lights, or reg, or tax and insurance. These things are legal requirements for motor vehicles, not so for cyclists.

    this new law can be used against anyone.


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    #16
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    chrabo wrote: »
    this new law can be used against anyone.

    Anyone with a non road legal bike you're leaving out a very important aspect of it.

    If you can find someone to allow you onto their land or fund it amongst your group go ahead.
    Between the price of insurance and the cost of the inevitable claim it won't last long


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    #17
    afatbollix
    Registered Users Posts: 4,038 ✭✭✭afatbollix


    https://www.motorcycling-ireland.com/

    These guys will be able to help. They offer permits for the road races with insurance and what not.

    They even have an Encro championship.

    Maybe see if a club is near you already? That way you wouldn't have to start from scratch.

    https://www.motorcycling-ireland.com/clubs.htm


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    #18
    Hillybilly4
    Registered Users Posts: 609 ✭✭✭Hillybilly4


    Motorcycling Ireland for your first port of call
    https://www.motorcycling-ireland.com/

    You'd need to affiliate to a governing body for your insurances etc.
    YMSA is one that some Irish clubs use.
    https://ymsaltd.co.uk/

    Edit - cross-posted with the above!


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    #19
    two wheels good
    Registered Users Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭two wheels good


    Coillte have been known to permit motorsport events, car rallying or maybe "time trials" is the correct term. Staged on the graded forest tracks.
    They charge for the pleasure and for making good the tracks afterwards. I've been told it's not cheap.
    AFAIK they're always one-off events e.g. for a weekend. I suppose what you have in mind is a permanent track.
    You might get some useful info from a relevant car club.


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    #20
    Cienciano
    Registered Users Posts: 14,226 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    First thing in registering a MC. Kill a man


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    #21
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,912 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    Anyone with a non road legal bike you're leaving out a very important aspect of it.

    If you can find someone to allow you onto their land or fund it amongst your group go ahead.
    Between the price of insurance and the cost of the inevitable claim it won't last long

    Any proposed law changes I've heard are to do with non road legal bikes being used in public places. Nothing to do with using a vehicle on private land with permission of the landowner but in this country, good luck with that - unless you own it yourself. Landowners don't even want walkers on their land.

    Life ain't always empty.



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    #22
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Any proposed law changes I've heard are to do with non road legal bikes being used in public places. Nothing to do with using a vehicle on private land with permission of the landowner but in this country, good luck with that - unless you own it yourself. Landowners don't even want walkers on their land.

    There are a few places around the land owner let's people use it on their bike, yes it is very rare.

    The new law was designed to prevent the usual kid getting a quad, scrambler etc for xmas and ripping around estates, roads and parks where they've no place being. Making it legal for the guard to take the it there and then. We can all see the obvious elephant in the room with its execution though.
    That being said it is still illegal to use any non road legal bike in a public setting so if you're caught tough luck.

    I'd genuinely love to be a fly on the wall for some of the possible arguments put forward though it'd be a great laugh.


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    #23
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,232 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    chrabo wrote: »
    this new law can be used against anyone.

    It'll only be used against people acting the maggot though. What's the issue?


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    #24
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,872 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    There are a few places around the land owner let's people use it on their bike, yes it is very rare.

    The new law was designed to prevent the usual kid getting a quad, scrambler etc for xmas and ripping around estates, roads and parks where they've no place being. Making it legal for the guard to take the it there and then. We can all see the obvious elephant in the room with its execution though.
    That being said it is still illegal to use any non road legal bike in a public setting so if you're caught tough luck.

    I'd genuinely love to be a fly on the wall for some of the possible arguments put forward though it'd be a great laugh.

    The Gardaí could always take a bike off someone if they where breaking the law in public, what this law is doing is that they can take the bike from your property or another private place without needing to catch you breaking the law.
    endacl wrote: »
    It'll only be used against people acting the maggot though. What's the issue?

    How do you know that? Plenty of laws have had unintended consequences or have being used for other purposes.


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    #25
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    Del2005 wrote: »
    The Gardaí could always take a bike off someone if they where breaking the law in public, what this law is doing is that they can take the bike from your property or another private place without needing to catch you breaking the law.



    How do you know that? Plenty of laws have had unintended consequences or have being used for other purposes.

    Not strictly true, while I over simplified it the bil allows for them to enter your property to seize it without a warrant.
    Under the circumstances you've been using it illegally.
    Note an important part of the law is on private land without the land owners permission.
    They still need to see the bike being used in am illegal manner they can't arrive at a random house see a non road bike and take it.

    Also no they couldn't, speeding is breaking a law they can't take my bike off me for that, not that I ever would of course.

    Interestingly I think the bill allows them to destroy it after seizure I briefly skimmed it, bit of a shame if a decent one is.destroyed if it's a generic Chinese junk bike, crush it to.


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    #26
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,912 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Anybody got a link to the text of the bill? Otherwise we're arguing over what colour a cat in a dark room is :)

    Life ain't always empty.



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    #27
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    chrabo wrote: »
    To either get trials from colite to use for enduro riding, or get some land from state to make a track. Lads in Limerick going well with this now. We looking for more midlands and dublin/wicklow spots. Only this tbh.

    I love a good laugh on a Friday morning.

    Why should the Coillte, or the State just provide you with land?
    I haven't seen such an entitled proposal in a while.

    Coillte are a forestry service and they do try to make their forests accessible amenities for people, and do a reasonably good job of it. Lots of trails for walking and hiking and families. No way in hell are they going to give permission to motorbikers to go into forest trails and pose a hazard to people and families walking, ploughing up trails, ploughing up ground resulting in erosion.

    I have seen motorbikers going into forests though, near land my family has near the mountains. They are an absolute pest. Damage roadways, damage boundaries, leave litter after them, tearing up the ground letting erosion set in in a severe way.

    Why should the state hand over land to allow it be torn up? The state have enough going on with housing crisis, covid, mother and baby homes, etc and haven't the time to be entertaining this. If the state took a mad notion to hand over land for motorbiking, there would be uproar over it and rightly so.

    Even in the event that they did,, you would have to get planning permission and insurance to use it as a scrambler course. And I can tell you it will be severely objected to by locals. The noise off of these bikes is very annoying, it travels for miles.
    My sister has fellas on bikes going up the mountain behind her house and they are a constant source of annoyance. She likes to walk up those paths with the kids but some days she can't for fear of being mown down by these lunatics.

    Politically, anything involving scramblers will be very unpopular. Basically, there are no votes to be had in it, and the majority of average families won't want to hear of it in their area.

    These places also often attract antisocial behaviour. Here in Cork Vernon Mount was made into one of these tracks and there was always a lot of anitsocial behavior around the place, eventually resulting in the lovely historic house being burnt down.

    You're off your game if you think this is a realistic proposal.


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    #28
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,620 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    This attitude of entitlement is a strange one. There's no requirement for motorsport facilities to be provided just because a few people want them.

    There might be an argument for a pay as you go facility to be built, but it would be very expensive.


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    #29
    Cienciano
    Registered Users Posts: 14,226 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    I love a good laugh on a Friday morning.

    Why should the Coillte, or the State just provide you with land?
    I haven't seen such an entitled proposal in a while.
    Because that's what the state does. If you have a registered club you can ask for a grant. I was in 2 different clubs that were given the use of land.
    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Coillte are a forestry service and they do try to make their forests accessible amenities for people, and do a reasonably good job of it. Lots of trails for walking and hiking and families. No way in hell are they going to give permission to motorbikers to go into forest trails and pose a hazard to people and families walking, ploughing up trails, ploughing up ground resulting in erosion.
    Just wanted to laugh at that bit!
    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    I have seen motorbikers going into forests though, near land my family has near the mountains. They are an absolute pest. Damage roadways, damage boundaries, leave litter after them, tearing up the ground letting erosion set in in a severe way.
    Littering? I've seen hillwalkers do the same thing. And using roadways is why they want a club!
    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Why should the state hand over land to allow it be torn up? The state have enough going on with housing crisis, covid, mother and baby homes, etc and haven't the time to be entertaining this. If the state took a mad notion to hand over land for motorbiking, there would be uproar over it and rightly so.
    Because they do it all the time for clubs. If you think the land is "torn up" wait till you see a farmer with a plough. The land is unusable afterwards :pac:
    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Even in the event that they did,, you would have to get planning permission and insurance to use it as a scrambler course. And I can tell you it will be severely objected to by locals. The noise off of these bikes is very annoying, it travels for miles.
    I agree with that. The noise travels for miles, if I lived in a rural area and a motocross track was built nearby I'd be well píssed off. Evergreen trees around it would help. Land around mondello, but it's probably all owned by farmers so not going to happen. Insurance is the big problem as you say.
    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    My sister has fellas on bikes going up the mountain behind her house and they are a constant source of annoyance. She likes to walk up those paths with the kids but some days she can't for fear of being mown down by these lunatics.
    That's because they don't have a track!
    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Politically, anything involving scramblers will be very unpopular. Basically, there are no votes to be had in it, and the majority of average families won't want to hear of it in their area.

    These places also often attract antisocial behaviour. Here in Cork Vernon Mount was made into one of these tracks and there was always a lot of anitsocial behavior around the place, eventually resulting in the lovely historic house being burnt down.

    You're off your game if you think this is a realistic proposal.

    I don't think it'll happen, but because of noise and insurance. Ploughing up the land, erosion, the goverment giving land, someone on a bike leaving litter (no idea how you know it was bikers), your sister, antisocial behavior are all irrelevant. Just imagine how crazy it would be to say you don't want a football club built beside you because football fans once burned down an old house! Politically, it was the council that gave us land. But can't picture it happening a MX club.


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    #30
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,620 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    Anti social behavior is a big part of the problem. Danger, noise and nuisance in public areas such as housing estates.


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    #31
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Op can go on ahead and write their letter or whatever, but they should be going in with the understanding that it is 99% likely to be a waste of time. The government wants to promote things like active travel and they give funding to clubs that engage in sports and development of young people's physical and mental health . It would be very hard to make that case for enduro bikes, especially so when it is a relatively high risk activity with a lot of negative elements like noise, and the general public not really holding off road motorbiking in a good view.

    It would be polititcally unpopular. So it'll go nowhere. Never happen. OP be better off go and expend their efforts at something more worthwhile.

    Most people view off road motor biking in a bad light due to the association with antisocial behaviour in housing estates. I personally also think the noise of it is a sort of antisocial behaviour. Why should people have to listen to the racket of these yokes on a sunday afternoon.


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